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Direct action?
It’s complicated.
As elsewhere stated, outward tranquility doesn’t necessarily indicate internal state. And even still, it is possible to exert some control over your emotions, it’s a skill that gets more effective with practice.
I myself am a fairly tranquil person. This is likely precisely because of very non tranquil conditions growing up. I’d wager this is the case for most counterintuitively calm people. You learn not to succumb to the initial stress response of panic or anger: take a breath, look at your situation calmly, determine an effective course of action, execute that course of action calmly and deliberately. Anger clouds your judgement, encourages you to make rash decisions. Whatever your problem, tranquility helps you to solve it cleanly without creating new problems.
Additionally, as your empathy grows, you have less and less anger towards individuals, as you recognize their transgressions are themselves symptoms of their own panic and anger. It’s hard to be angry at scared, lost, and lonely people clutching at ideologies designed explicitly to prey on their insecurities.
I think it’s best portrayed in The Invisibles where, after spending the entirety of the story building up an epic ideological war between the forces of authoritarianism and freedom, we’re told “We lied. We are not at war. There is no enemy. This is a rescue operation.” Daryl Davis fights intolerance without anger towards his potential converts.
So what does that leave us? Righteous anger at abstract ideologies and systems that ensnare insecure people into a web of hatred and vitriol. But anger isn’t useful against abstract ideologies and systems, they are cold and emotionless. Some might claim it is, but they’re conflating anger with resolve; anger can help maintain resolve, but it isn’t necessary. It is quite possible to be tranquil and resolutely opposed to tyrannical and hateful ideology. Personally, I think it’s more effective than visibly brimming with rage.
Well said. We don’t have control over a lot of things but we do have some control over how we respond to our emotions. Finding peace amidst the chaos is not easy. Creating peace from chaos is even harder.
Helping others find peace might not be pacifism. I don’t know what you’d call it. I dont really care what you call it. But I do know that often the catalysts of change are not the most downtrodden, but rather those who have been empowered to effect change. Thus, change begins by overcoming yourself.
Anger is a poor long-term motivator. What we are looking for is, indeed, resolve.
Tranquility is a real trait that some people have. It’s not a common one.
And those people are not necessarily pacifists. The issue is that the idea that you would get from movies and TV is that they are one and the same.
Hijacking this comment thread to say I appreciate you
Thank you!
For most people, a prerequisite feeling for tranquility, is contentment.
And trust me, no pacifist is “content” with the current state of the world. “Worry-free” is literally in the first sentence on the wikipedia page of the word, and I don’t think anyone can be that, except temporarily and/or by being inebriated.
The only way I know to be tranquil, is to ignore the world, and willfully focus only on the good things in my immediate surroundings, in my life specifically.
Essentially, to get there I have to take a break from caring about most things. I don’t like doing that. I want to improve things, and to do that I have to care about things to begin with.
If you had to be content with the state of the world before feeling tranquil, nobody would ever feel tranquil.
Then it’s a good thing that isn’t what I claimed.
🤦
For most people, a prerequisite feeling for tranquility, is contentment. And trust me, no pacifist is “content” with the current state of the world.
Look up the difference between “most” and “all”.
Further, consider that not all people are pacifists.
Finally, note how I go on to descibe how one can feel things one otherwise wouldn’t, depending on what one is focused on.
You have to willwfully bend my words to misinterpret what I said to mean that tranquility is an imposible state for a person to be in.
Sounds like Vinland Saga
I’ve expressed a similar sentiment as “it’s easy to be enlightened up on a mountain.” As in, big whoop to all the wise hermits who fled society to find peace: that’s not being above the problems of the world (except literally), it’s hiding from them and pretending that ignorance can be bliss again. The real work is maintaining peace and wisdom in the face of monstrous injustice.
The absolute state of the religion-understanders in this thread.
If you’ve never read one work about finding peace thru mysticism, why voice an opinion about it? I’m not here voicing an opinion on Finnish politics.
Tempered rage might come across as tranquil, but it would be nice to have hints in the narrative. Reminds me of this line about Bruce controlling the Hulk: “That’s my secret, Cap: I’m always angry.”
Calm like a bomb.
Avatar does this great. Aang is a pacifist because that’s part of his culture, and he’s the last one left to embody his culture’s values so he doesn’t feel he can abandon them. But that boy has some anger issues. Especially when the bad guys hurt animals.
I still like the Doctor Who take on it. “Demons run when a good man goes to war.”
Yeah, although the Doctor is pretty hypocritical with his pacifism. Something which this quote sums up pretty well. He did kill several species after all.
I thought Rory was the good man. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that episode.
It is, that was the twist - the Doctor is not the good man.
The Doctor doesn’t call himself a pacifist, he just detests violence. If needed though, he will absolutely blow your shit up.
The other quote to go with that one was “Good men don’t need rules, you’re about to find out why I have so many.”
"This is Clara, my carer. She cares so that I don’t have to.
I once played D&D with a paladin who basically followed this. He was an Oath of Vengeance paladin. For the unaware, OoV paladins often have zero chill. They’re typically something akin to Batman with magic powers. My goal was to avoid that.
His oath had something along the lines of “Without the capacity for violence, pacifism is not a choice. Pacifism without choice is victimhood. I will choose pacifism whenever possible, but will not watch idly when people are victimized. I will ensure the victimized are made whole, and the victimizers know the pain they have caused.”
Basically, he would try his best to talk his way through encounters first. He would give enemies every opportunity to back down. He had incredibly high charisma to try and persuade, intimidate, or deceive others out of attacking. After all, he was attempting to choose pacifism whenever possible. But if he believed that a bully was victimizing someone, the gloves came off and he channeled all of his pent-up fury into making the bully regret their actions. And since paladins use charisma to cast their spells, his smites were painful.
The DM loved it, because it helped us avoid falling into the murderhobo trope that combat-oriented D&D players often fall into. It also gave him a chance to actually flesh out some of the NPCs who would have just been throwaway no-name combatants.
Demons run when a good man goes to war
Night will fall and drown the sun
When a good man goes to war
Friendship dies and true love lies
Night will fall and the dark will rise
When a good man goes to war
Demon’s Run, but count the cost
The battle’s won but the child is lostNothing good happens when a good man goes to war
But I also like the saying “If you want peace prepare for war”. War is not the right choice, but it’s seldom yours.
But I also like the saying “If you want peace prepare for war”.
It’s the cornerstone of the Security Dilemma: Increasing your own state’s security by increasing military strength may be threatening to other states that don’t know whether you’re just improving defenses or gearing up for an offensive war.
Particularly in pre-modern times where land was more valuable (compared to developing the land you already have) and battle wasn’t so destructive, war was more profitable, the threat was real. With the development of modern arms and mass mobilisation escalating the scale and destruction of war, the distinction between defensive and offensive militarisation is even harder to tell, and even though it’s not as lucrative, we haven’t outgrown the martial impulses so the issue remains.
So because you want to be safe, you improve your military. Because you improve your military, your neighbour fears for their own safety, so they improve theirs. This is why international relations and diplomacy are so important to prevent a runaway arms race.
Yes, its a very sad dilemma.
I believed for quite a long time (living in Germany) that this state of “peace by codependency” could be extended, even maybe applied worldwide, but I’m not so sure anymore. I still want this to be true, however.
But a defenseless state is still a very nice target. I’m not so blind as to miss both sides of the US protection, and the limitations and freedoms that come with it.
I think we - collectively, as humanity, not any particular subgroup - need to get over that greedy, jealous, tribal “us vs. them” mindset that feeds nationalism, turns demographies against each other and leads to that security dilemma in the first place.
It made sense when our individual survival hinged on competing for the best land, subsequently forming groups to further that claim and drive others from their land to increase your own margin of subsistence.
But with modern farming, logistics, administrative capabilities and real-time communications across the globe, I think we should be able to do better by working together instead of against each other.
Of course, that would require people who like power to stop reaching for more and more, and that is an issue I don’t think I need to lay out in detail.
living in Germany
Your username and instance kinda gave it away, comfortable cushion ;-)
Forming groups is still important. We need it to find our place in the world. There is no single truth, therefore we argue and fight.
Not saying anything you said is wrong, btw. Just wanted to state why we still have this stuff.Your username and instance kinda gave it away, comfortable cushion ;-)
Just wanted to make it clear that I don’t have an american POV :)
Forming groups is still important. We need it to find our place in the world. There is no single truth, therefore we argue and fight.
Absolutely. Forming groups defined by commonality is good. Discussions are important to check our own biases and misconceptions. Diversity is key to avoiding stagnation. Conflict can create opportunity for growth.
War, above all else, destroys. There are many great things we can do with each other that don’t involve violence.
Not saying anything you said is wrong, btw. Just wanted to state why we still have this stuff.
Good point, adding nuance is important.
Ghandi?
Nope.
It is not that I do not get angry. I don’t give vent to my anger. I cultivate the quality of patience as angerlessness, and generally speaking, I succeed. But I only control my anger when it comes. How I find it possible to control it would be a useless question, for it is a habit that everyone must cultivate and must succeed in forming by constant practice.
― Mahatma Gandhi
More like Benjamin Lay.
I, too, and a pissedifist.
You know, Dude, I myself dabbled in pacifism once. Not in 'Nam of course.
I’d also like to see more imagery of Jesus smashing up the temple rather than him calmly sitting under a tree.
It’s easy for religious figures to be depicted as tranquil. They are often all-knowing, and if not, have faith in something all-knowing. They can blindly believe that everything will be fine, even if right now things look bad.
Because sky-daddy will take care of things.
This is nothing to do with actual tranquility (in the sense of passaddhi), which is basically the opposite of everything you are describing.
You don’t cultivate tranquility by not knowing “not caring” about worldly factors; you cultivate tranquililty by abandoning the five hindrances (covetousness, ill-will, sloth, agitation, and compulsive questioning).
The Upanisa Sutta says that tranquillity comes from rapture and leads to happiness (the Samaññaphala Sutta repeats this). The precondition for tranquility is rapture, not “not caring about the state of the world”.
Tranquility is a mind that maintains a spacious calm in the face of adverse conditions. It’s nothing like what you’re saying.
Your view is harmful because you’re saying that someone without tranquility (with covetousness, ill-will, sloth, agitation, and compulsive questioning, without rapture), will be better equipped to deal with worldly problems, but the exact opposite is true: tranquility creates the space to deal with worldly problems more effectively. It’s harmful to advocate for hindrances because you claim that means people “care” more.
We are using different definitions of the word.
You explain what your definition is, which affects mine (being the dictionary defintion) in no way whatsoever. We have nothing to discuss.
What you describe I would call stoicism, competence, composure or equanimity.
Most simply, level-headedness.
But not tranquility. Tranquility, by definition, being a state free of turmoil, cannot be maintained, if dealing with turmoil.
Tranquility, by definition, being a state free of turmoil, cannot be maintained, if dealing with turmoil.
Right, but it can and should be maintained while dealing with tumultuous events.
Stoicism, competence, composure, equanimity or level-headedness, can be.
Tranquility, not being a quality of the human mind, but rather a feeling or state of being, cannot be. The dictionary definition of tranquil (free from disturbance) is mutually exclusive with a mind that is actively dealing with concerns of any kind. Because then you are not free of disturbance, are you?
You can remain calm and in control, but if there is force of any kind that you must interact with in any way, you cannot be tranquil.
Can you get there by ignoring any current troubles for a moment, simply not thinking about them for a minute? Yes, but that’s still temporary.
What you are claiming, is like saying silence is the ability to ignore noise.
Or that silence can be “maintained” at a concert. That by refusing to let the music make you dance, you might prevent it being played.
Can you still plug your ears? Sure. But you can’t listen, while doing that.
The more I know, the less fucking tranquil I am.
Well, yes.
But by all-knowing, I meant the kind of view an omniscient god would have, accompanied by complete control of the universe.
Essentially, religious figures typically get to exist, knowing for sure that everything is going and will go according to plan.
It’s EASY to be tranquil, then. Even easier if you’re just a human, who genuinely believes such an entity exists.
Pretty much, God Hollywood are such liars
I tell people that I’m a pacifist in the same way that Bonhoeffer was.
How many of them know who Bonhoeffer was though?
Not many, but my hope is that anyone interested enough does a little research.
Bonhoeffer’s pacifism is a complicated matter. He believed in nonviolence, but also participated in a plot to kill Hitler.
To summarize him a little…. Sometimes we need to abandon our principles to care for others. My goodness is less important than the wellbeing of those who are oppressed.
None
Disgraceful!
I guess. I’m a fairly intelligent person, who is well educated, and decently well read. But I’ve never heard of them. I’ll have to do some reading I guess.
If you’re curious about the guy, he’s worth reading. His Letters and Papers from Prison and Ethics are the two dealing with all of this. Ethics is unfinished, because he was moved from a standard prison to a concentration camp before they eventually executed him.
