Puerto Ricans cannot vote in general elections despite being U.S. citizens, but they can exert a powerful influence with relatives on the mainland. Phones across the island of 3.2 million people were ringing minutes after the speaker derided the U.S. territory Sunday night, and they still buzzed Monday.
Democratic Vice President Kamala Harris is competing with Trump to win over Puerto Rican communities in Pennsylvania and other swing states. Shortly after stand-up comic Tony Hinchcliffe said that, “I don’t know if you guys know this, but there’s literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. I think it’s called Puerto Rico,” Puerto Rican reggaeton superstar Bad Bunny announced he was backing Harris.
After Sunday’s rally, a senior adviser for the Trump campain, Danielle Alvarez, said in a statement that Hinchcliffe’s joke did “not reflect the views of President Trump or the campaign.”
I look forward to the inevitable exit polls showing just how much Nazi Fest 2024 sank the GröpenFührer/Cöuchfücker ticket.
Come on, sanity! You can do it!
I have no faith left in this country, he shouldn’t even have gotten this far. I fully expect this to somehow raise his popularity, followed by a glowing endorsement from WaPp and Eric Adams
I’ve never understood the whole Puerto Rico situation. Your country was built on the rage of having taxation without representation. Why is it that Puerto Rico isn’t allowed to participate in your elections despite being US citizens?
Because our system is
broken afdesigned and manipulated by powerful rich rascists who don’t want to give up control.Because they don’t tax them. Puerto Rico doesn’t pay federal taxes
While they dont pay income taxes to the IRS, they do pay customs taxes, federal commodity taxes, and federal payroll taxes (Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment) to the IRS, which sounds alot like federal taxes to me.
It also feels like it’s something different because they aren’t supposed to go into the general fund, but advance payment for specific benefits
Because racism.
They don’t pay federal income tax (but they do pay other federal taxes, like payroll taxes including social security).
It’s really racism. But if you want the legalistic explanation, here it is…
The United States started out with 13 states that were all ex-British territories on the Eastern seaboard of North America. There are now 50 states. Every state after the first 13 got its statehood by first being a territory, adopting a state Constitution at a constitutional convention, and then getting that Constitution approved by US Congress, and so being “admitted to the Union.”
Under the Constitution, only states (and Washington DC) participate in the electoral college. The concept of non-state “territory” did not necessarily exist when that part was written, because there were only the original 13, and the Louisiana purchase wasn’t done until later.
[Washington DC is a very special “district” that is not a state and not a territory.]
Puerto Rico has stayed at the territory stage since it was acquired in the Spanish-American war (started 1898). Why? Well, mostly racism. There have also been some popular votes in Puerto Rico, with very mixed results. In the currently evenly split political climate, getting any new state admitted is probably impossible (as it was before the civil war).
There’s also some undercurrent that maybe the US is kinda uncomfortable holding on to these overseas islands (which are mostly connected to the same Spanish-American war). Philippines became an independent country. On the other hand, Hawaii got statehood in 1959 (but there was a whole racist history there of white colonization).
Yeah this is kind of the answer I was looking for. I didn’t really ask the question properly tho. Thanks.
After Sunday’s rally, a senior adviser for the Trump campain, Danielle Alvarez, said in a statement that Hinchcliffe’s joke did “not reflect the views of President Trump or the campaign.”
“All the stuff about you people being vermin that poison the blood of America, though, we meant that.”
What an incredibly stupid thing for them to say. This was an official election rally, and they 100% vetted every joke before he went out there. If they didn’t, they’re incompetent. So either way, their own weak ass defense is damning.
Puerto Ricans cannot vote in general elections despite being U.S. citizens
So, is anyone still under an ilusion that the US is a democracy?
This is the case for all American territories. A statehood referendum has been put up multiple times throughout the years and there’s never been a really definitive result.
Some people there want independence, others want statehood, I was told. No consensus either way.
This fact alone has no significant bearing on it.
Do you know what a “democracy” means?
I’m sure you’re ready to contort it. Was ancient Greece a democracy?
So, do you know what a “democracy” mean?
Sure, it’s a form of government run by the people through various means which could include electing representatives to govern them. They could also directly vote for every law or policy. The people could include all people of the land or only citizens, only adults, only men, non-slaves, non-felons, etc. There have been many forms of democratic governments in our history.
They could also directly vote for every law or policy. The people could include all people of the land or only citizens, only adults, only men, non-slaves, non-felons, etc.
You have been misinformed.
I’m glad this back and forth could end with such an enlightening declaration.
Can American citizens living abroad vote?
Yes, they have a right to vote in the state they last lived in (or, if they never lived in one, perhaps the state their parent last lived in?) but unfortunately Puerto Ricans can’t vote in presidential elections.
Generally yes, but not in Puerto Rico. If they move to the mainland, they can vote for any elections there, but while living in Puerto Rico, they only vote for members of Congress that serve a mostly observational role.
How about someone from new York moving to Puerto Rico vs moving to France?
Unrelated but wow this is strange because I’m a New Yorker who’s lived in PR and moving to France haha.
What the other comment said is accurate though, I could vote absentee in both places, but lose that right in PR if I change my residence - lot of ppl do this for taxes. Afaik I could permanently vote in France as long as I have my US citizenship. Kinda messed up tbh.
But I swear if THIS is the thing that sends Trump’s campaign off the rails hahahaha. I fucking love Puerto Rico and the irony they’d sway as Presidential election is poetic.
Merci pour la réponse, ça m’éclaire sur la situation. That’s messed up situation for Puerto Rican. Think Canada could snatch them off us hands? They could even make Spanish their official language.
They could vote absentee, but eventually they’d lose that right if they stayed in PR.
People need to lighten up. I heard his full set and it was hilarious and very toung in cheak *edited
no it wasn’t.
I really hope this is true and they can make a TRUE difference in the swing states. I was watching some interviews and in some cases there were Puerto Ricans that were annoyed but were still going to vote for Trump anyway!
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0065
There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections.
The electoral college was purely designed to let southerners use their slaves for votes. Letting Puerto Ricans vote doesn’t help Southerners cheat.
I’m wondering what Kimberly Guilfoyle - Don Jrs half Puerto Rican girlfriend thinks about it. I’m sure she’s doing mental gymnastics to justify it.
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To be in a relationship with Donny-lite, you would have to be a pretty awful person to begin with. I expect she hates brown people just as much as he does.
Reminder: The only reason Puerto Ricans cannot vote is because Republicans refuse to recognize it as a state, and they do that because they don’t want brown people to vote, and they don’t want brown people to vote because they don’t want them to exist.
Hear me out here, turn Puerto Rico into a state and combine both north and south Dakota into a new state called “One big Dakota”. We wouldn’t even need to change the flag, and the population of one big Dakota might break 5 digits.
As much as I hate the GOP, Puerto Rico has never attempted to apply for statehood. Their referendums on the subject have never shown a large enough amount of support for them to try a real vote. They’re typically around a 50-50 split.
What are the main reasons they have for not voting in favour of statehood?
State or not I think its pretty ridiculous that they are american citizens but can’t vote for president of the united states… People living in DC get to vote and aren’t living in a state.
But they choose to not. One of those cake and eat it too scenarios.
A territory like them is eligible for Federal money from various programs, while not having to pay Federal income tax. If they became a state, they’d then have to pay income tax, lose benefit of the free program money, but be allowed to vote.
If you don’t want to fully commit to the whole package and are milking the advantages of being a territory, should you really get a right to choose how the package that is being taxed and giving you free money is steered?
(Oversimplification, of course.)
If I were a member of a territory, I don’t really know where my thoughts would land.
However, as one that is taxed, it seems that allowing the untaxed to choose our taxed destiny would be disingenuous.
You make it sound like Puerto Rico is some tax haven where they don’t pay the federal government anything, but Puerto Rico pays more in total federal taxes than 6 US states.
Only citizens residing in a state for the majority of the year can vote for federal elections. Basically you need a senator to vote federally. Hawaii and all other states were the same way when they too were territories. All PR needs to do is vote for statehood and then I guess the political shitshow starts as well as flag redesign.
You aren’t correct. https://www.fvap.gov/citizen-voter/voting-residence
You generally need to have established residency in a state at some point in your life, but there is zero requirement to spend any time there if you live abroad in order to retain your voting rights. Several states allow children who have been born overseas the right to vote at their parents last US address.
However, because Puerto Rico is part of the United States, residents there (even if you retired there after living in New York your entire life) fall under the rules for Puerto Rico.
So, you can live in Mexico as a US Citizen, permanently, and retain voting rights in your last state… Or you can live in Puerto Rico and lose the ability to vote for president.
Fair should have said Puerto Ricans.
US Citizens that reside in Puerto Rico.
Sure just better to say Americans that haven’t resided in a state in the past then. Or more simply Puerto Ricans but at some point I feel like we’re just language lawyering here.
Except we made an exception for citizens that reside in Washington DC. They have no representative in the senate, but were given 3 electoral college votes for president and vice president.
So we totally can (and have) extended the right to vote to citizens living outside one of the 50 states to vote, we just won’t for Puerto Rico. :(
That exception was the 23rd amendment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Puerto Ricans as an example don’t meet the same conditions e.g. paying federal income tax. Hence statehood as their option to representation.
Why the fuck are US citizens not allowed to vote in a US election?
History tells me that if the US is disenfranchising a group of people, it’s usually racism
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0065
There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections.
The problem with the south, is that everything they do looks like it’s all about racism, but they actually use their virulent and brutal racism to cover more evil selfishness. They’re just monstrously racist as a hobby, corruption is their true passion.
Puerto Rico is a protectorate and has its own government. Puerto Ricans can’t vote while on the island, but can vote in the US
No, that can’t be right, because half the comments here say it’s due to racism. So if a Puerto Rican moves to a US state, they still can’t vote, right?
No, that can’t be right, because half the comments here say it’s due to racism.
Both those things are true, racists prevent it from becoming a state to prevent it from voting dem.
So if a Puerto Rican moves to a US state, they still can’t vote, right?
They can’t do this directly anymore, so they are just disenfranchised on Puerto Rico.
They can and do
Every US State has its own government, too. I don’t see that as an excuse.
The Constitution says that each state shall send electors to the electoral college. So Puerto Rico’s status as an unorganized territory is a bit of a blocker.
The District of Columbia is also not a part of any state, as specified in the Constitution. However, DC explicitly got some electors in the 23rd amendment, so they can vote for President.
Really, the idea that the United States might have overseas territories that are not on track to statehood is itself an invention of the twentieth century. (Owing to the 1898 Spanish-American war, which caused the US to take over several parts of the ex-Spanish empire).
Yes, I understand that that’s the reason, but a reason is not the same thing as an excuse.
the electoral college values different things than the will of the populace
Which was actually supposed to prevent Trump, but the founding fathers couldn’t have predicted the modern world.
Well, they did. It was referred to by the Framers as a “Living Document” and they intended us to re-write it as we grew as a nation:
"The question Whether one generation of men has a right to bind another, seems never to have been started either on this or our side of the water… (But) between society and society, or generation and generation there is no municipal obligation, no umpire but the law of nature. We seem not to have perceived that, by the law of nature, one generation is to another as one independant nation to another…
On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation…
Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19. years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force and not of right."
-Tommy J.
What happened to that law?
The Dixie-crats.
This message was brought to you by Brando.
one more reason why the popular vote would be better than the shitshow this is
Because each state is given the power to elect a president, not the voters. Puerto Rico isn’t a state so their voters aren’t represented properly.
i mean the technicallity is that washington dc isnt a state either, so the better answer is that you need to live in a region where you have representatives.
Also because DC and PR would most likely vote democrats it makes it harder. Most of the time when a state joined the union there was a fight.
Dc does not have voting representatives in congress. They only get electoral votes because of the 23rd ammendment
but the context of the news report is about the president, which they can vote for.
The better question is “why didn’t the 23rd grant voting rights to all US citizens in all territories?”
gonna be honest with you, its racism.
Because of slavery, basically. The US couldn’t have a directly-elected president at founding because that would mean slaveholding states would get less power per person actually living there, unless they wanted to let slaves vote which of course they wouldn’t. So 3/5ths compromise, electoral college, yadda yadda yadda, and 250 years later power still is filtered through the states. So now that that’s the case, giving any new people voting rights would change the power balance between the
slaveholdersright andabolitionistsleft. So as a result, places like PR that have an abnormal amount ofminoritiesDemocratic voters tend to be unable to get Congress to grant them voting rights.
What a shit system
What happened to “no taxation without representation”…?
Never existed in the US. Women, slaves, prisoners, permanent residents, etc… It’s always been in the hands of the rich. They just pretend to listen to the people. But as Trump has many times noted, the vote doesn’t matter. The state can send delegates with any instructions they want and the federal government can decide state delegates are not valid and exclude them. Most states have laws to follow the vote, but it’s not the federal government’s job to enforce those laws if they chose not to follow them. That would be for the people of that state to fight later.
Lots of people move to Puerto Rico for tax purposes.
Easy, they don’t pay federal taxes
While they dont pay income taxes to the IRS, they do pay customs taxes, federal commodity taxes, and federal payroll taxes (Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment) to the IRS, which sounds alot like federal taxes to me.
It also feels like it’s something different because they aren’t supposed to go into the general fund, but advance payment for specific benefits
Taxes are just when the goverment demands money. It doesn’t require they spend (or not spend) on anything in particular.
That’s not true. There are technically different classifications. For example, fees are specifically not taxes.
Do they receive those benefits?
Yes.
Ask some of the 14-17 year olds working their first jobs paying tax without the ability to vote. That was never a real concern for anyone outside landowning whites.
I can just hear those MAGA morons smugly chuckling, “What can they do LOL they can’t even vote, fuck 'em!”
No, fuck you.
Taxation without representation
the nation that started as a rebellion on this is doing the same thing to its own citizens? that’s like building the land of the free using slave labor!
Well as long as we don’t live in an oligarchy I guess we’re ok then
is this a new problem?
Why is it that an American citizen living in, for example, France or any foreign country can vote but Americans in Puerto Rico can not?
The short answer is that deployment doesn’t count as permanent residence. You can still get a ballot from the state or territory that you used to reside in. You’re also required to pay federal, and depending on the state, state taxes.
You can be a dual citizen and be living outside of the US and still vote. You can be an American citizen who has never lived in America and vote. It’s not about permanent residency at all.
Good point. That said, the law is structured to allow people to get ballots from the “jurisdiction of their last residence.”
Because the U.S. is a failed democracy. It labels places like Puerto Rico as a territory.
How are the Puerto Ricans represented in congress? Because not being able to vote for the executive branch is beginning to smell like taxation without representation.
Yes and no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico
As with most things related to the U.S. government, it is complicated, bullshit, and hypocritical.
Because “No taxation without representation”? No wait, that doesn’t make sense.
