Trump winning supports the genocide of every LGBTQ+ person in all of North America, be it directly or indirectly. No one wants what is happening in Gaza. But, I have to say the potential genocide (in the sense of complete erasure of culture as well as open murders with little to no consequences sense) here is even higher.
I have the unfortunate circumstance of being a trans woman in GA. I already have had to completely shut off most contact with people, both work and personal.
I’ve already had rocks thrown at me in an attempt to kill me (this was years ago, even). I already feel like I have to carry a gun. If things go the way they seem, I will even have to order in groceries because it will further empower the people that hate my existence.
The foreign policy is shit, no question. However, I don’t like the possibility of being raped and murdered by some asshole that thinks he understands Co² emissions after watching some video.
I have a lot to say here, especially as a very blue collar machinist. I will refrain, though.
In conclusion: by “avoiding” the genocide in Gaza (which would have in my opinion had a much higher chance of being resolved with Democratic policies), you have also doomed people like me to maybe live in fear for the rest of our lives.
Trump winning supports the genocide of every LGBTQ+ person in all of North America, be it directly or indirectly.
Trump winning also supports the genocide in Gaza.
Trump winning supports the genocide of the planet
This is very true. I wanted to address the idea that not a single outlet has touched on, though.
Should just be pointing yes at both.
Be it because people on the left want to carry out attacks on their peers to falsely prove a point or…
Remember kids: it’s more important to be right than to live happily under a Presidency you
don’t agree withdidn’t win.
I hope you look back on this, and see how self centred you sound. I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences, but comparing having rocks thrown at you (this was years ago, even), to the weight of us backed military drones shooting you in your hospital bed isnt helping
most people on this planet dont even get a vote, and that includes a lot of people in the us. American liberals will blame anything and anyone for their failing before looking in the mirror.
this post was obviously written by the russian agent who uses my account while I’m sleeping. No one really agrees with me, I’m not even real.
How self-centered of them to worry about their own life.
I’m sure you’re going to throw yourself between an IDF soldier and a Palestinian any time now, right?
Replying here at this date and time 2 months later to state that Trump forcibly passed an executive order to erase the identity of all trans people in the US. Nah, I don’t think this was very self centered.
I suppose it’s not the best. But if things go really wrong. Every LGBT migrant is welcome in my country (Spain). We have some of the most advanced laws on LGBT protection on the planet.
And while we have our share of far right that wants ti abolish LGBT rights, it is unlikely they will succeed at this even if they reach power (please, don’t let this afe like milk).
For now.
Nice do you take lgbt refugees or no like every other country
Every good person is welcome here.
What does good person mean in this context? Last I checked you can’t be an lgbt refugee there.
I just talk of my personal welcomes.
Legally I don’t know.
But if you are targeted by a conflict you can come as refugee. Many people from Latin America come here on that premise.
this meme implies that lives of americans has more worth than lives of gazans. your rage is justified but outlawing essential healthcare for lgbtq+ is not the same as a hostile military force genociding and ethnically cleansing you. bad meme all around.
They don’t care as long as it doesn’t affect them. Did you ever see dem voters wish death to biden or obama. They are brain washed into thinking lesser evil is better. Evil is evil no matter what. Trump 4 years and then maybe dem another 4 years and the cycle repeats.
Yes, we all know that enabling TWO genocides is much better. That must be what you think, considering that’s the direct result of your stance. The situation in Gaza was never going to change, but as for what COULD change, by fucking god, you sure made it change. It’s thanks to virtue signalers like you that we now have foreign genocide with a side of domestic trans-hunting.
removed by mod
They don’t care as long as it doesn’t affect them.
That’s you one post ago. Looks like someone was projecting.
Lets clarify your stance here. Dems are brainwashed and don’t care about Gaza because it doesn’t affect them… but you don’t care about what happens to Americans because it doesn’t affect you… 🤔
You’re taking a stance against genocide in Gaza… but that same stance indirectly extends the genocide… 🤔And that’s not to mention the longer term affects caused by Trump’s stance on things like fossil fuels and climate change.
It was a statement and yours was crying, tone defines how people take it. Dk what you mean by projecting cause I’m neither in America nor Palestine.
No. My stance is most Americans are brain washed into thinking they have to vote for capitalism.
What happened to Americans? Were all american lgbt people exiled in 2016?
What stance did I take that increases the genocide? Are libs so brainwashed, that they can’t comprehend anything except voting any one of the two? I’m no American, i don’t vote there.
You think dems get their funds from forests or alaskan mountains? Saying we are better than them doesn’t mean dems implement any laws to better the climate. Can you reference any climate change policies biden govt implemented that may reap benifits?
All I’m saying people should unite to end this stupid capitalist capitalist world.
It was a statement and yours was crying, tone defines how people take it.
It’s called accusing, as in calling you out for your blatant hypocrisy.
Dk what you mean by projecting cause I’m neither in America nor Palestine.
Surely you can’t be this dense? You can’t actually believe that’s what I meant, can you? That’s plainly stupid. You’re projecting because you show the exact lack of empathy you accuse others of.
Were all american lgbt people exiled in 2016?
Were there bounties on trans people prior to 2016? Were there blanket bans on abortion? Were there calls to bring back fucking asbestos? It’s called escalation.
What stance did I take that increases the genocide?
The same one that drove 20 million more people to abstain from voting than four years ago, leading to Trump’s win.
Are libs so brainwashed, that they can’t comprehend anything except voting any one of the two?
Don’t comment on things that you’re this clueless about.
Can you reference any climate change policies biden govt implemented that may reap benifits?
Nope, but you know what I can reference? Trump policies that had detrimental effects on the clime, such as withdrawing from the Paris agreement. Didn’t see that kind of shit under Biden.
All I’m saying people should unite to end this stupid capitalist capitalist world.
“All I’m saying is that the half of the US that gives a shit should stand up against both the other half and the government itself!” It’s not 1793, we can’t just behead our leader and start fresh. Besides, you sure as shit said a lot more than just that.
Did biden improve climate change was my question. Waiting for an answer.
You’re looking for someone to blame for Trump winning and decided to blame the wrong people because you’re angry and need an easier target. Not the 70 million Americans who voted for Trump eh? Not the Harris campaign staff who refused to let Palestinians endorse Harris at the DNC and were trying to get their community to join them?
No, blame other victims because only your suffering counts. We’re ALL suffering.
Yeah where’s all the fucking dipshits that were on here before yelling nonstop about Kamala not getting their vote because of the genocide in Gaza, hmm? I guess Russia doesn’t need to employ them anymore.
More like canceled their ChatGPT subscription
They’re still here, for some reason. Maybe everyone thought the election would take a few days to call and so they paid for a few more days of disinformation?
They’re now advocating for violence. A civil war would be a great way to destabilize the US.
Oh trump is going to help flatten Gaza with such a raging boner. Everyone that voted “uncommitted” has the blood on their hands they blamed others. Fucking repugnant
Everyone that voted “uncommitted” has the blood on their hands
Once again, the peaceful protesters are responsible for the state violence inflicted upon them. Its just like when the BLM protesters cost Hillary the election. Or when the LGBTQ community and the anti-war movement handed Bush a second term.
Just stop resisting! Stop resisting! Stop resisting or you will be hurt much worse! And then you will have only yourself to blame!
Theres a little thing called picking your battles
You voted for trump. You’ll get what you deserve.
Nope. Try blaming the right people for a change.
Everyone who didn’t vote for Harris (and thus, against Trump) is to blame for the fascist rise to power in this country.
The people who held our country and democracy hostage over the insignificant sewer that’s called Palestine clearly have more loyalty to Islam (a religion that worships a false prophet who was a child fucker and warmonger himself) than they do to America. Now we will see what Trump decides to do with them.
Honestly I’m hoping he gets stuck between a rock and a hard place. IF he lets Israel do so he cannot help Putin defend Iran, his missile and Drone supplier. Millions will suffer, no doubt. It’s horrifying, but Trump can’t let Israel kill wildly (hard to say they haven’t been) until he gets the majority of the U.S. to side against Russias invasion of Ukraine. Which means also turning against trade agreements in Europe. He will have to kill so much to gain little. (A few beach condos in the West Bank) Is what all of that started about. His son did the appraisals if I remember correctly.
Meaning. Would it not be easier to collect $2 billion in kick backs from Putin and ditch Israel. My thought is that is what he will choose. He will say the ammo caches we have their are dated, and we have no interest supporting foreign wars. So cut funding and ammunitions to Ukraine/Israel. His base will act like it is for a good reason… And he gets his wish. Russia will make an agreement with Iran which will make an agreement with the entire area… That a few beach properties are set aside for the Trump family businesses
After all, the cache loses are U.S. tax dollars, not his
I too am over all the genocide Joe dipshits on forums. Congrats you handed the country to a dictator.
I sincerely hope you get the policy on Palestine that you voted for!
I’d encourage any readers of this comment to look at this idiots most recent few posts. They’re a lying, genocide celebrating piece of shit - astroturf or otherwise.
You fought for this result, and now you’re going to try to pretend that you were doing the exact opposite? Fuck all the way off.
Uncommitted to democracy, uncommitted to secular society, uncommitted to global stability, must I go on.
And more genocide in Gaza!
Maybe you can realize that comparing genocides doesn’t really help you.
“I don’t care about that genocide because it is happening thousands of miles away and doesn’t affect me even though it’s my money funding it, but I do care about this genocide that’s not yet happened but might happen to me”
If you can excuse one genocide then you can excuse them all. It doesn’t suddenly matter because it’s your life at stake.
Yes, noone has ever prioritized their own safety or sacrificed for the sake of political gains: these are psychologically impossible positions
I understand your point. The reality is that I should have made the meme both “yes.” I’m not trying to detract from the horrors in Gaza. The reality is that my own personal situation suddenly became more real than it ever had before, and I had some knee jerk reactions. I by no means intended to excuse anything. The point here was that by electing that moron, multiple genocides have not only been enabled, but encouraged. I also wanted to bring up conversation around the other legal definition of genocide, which is cultural erasure (See: Uyghurs) that very much is in the cards for people like me.
Think about this ad, which was nationally aired that not only discourages the mental healthcare of prisoners, but deliberately attacks the entire idea that people that are trans need help or are, in fact people:
https://youtu.be/lhnHt1NB0M0?si=78yAlrtfC1ZNikrJ
The preemptive Trump administration, through this ad, has explicitly stated that every trans person in any state of being is to be reviled, hated, and denied any respect. Policies are likely imminent that will likely put trans people at risk regarding rights, physical safety, legal representation, and overall well-being.
For reference, this is a thing: https://elan.school/ - it is heart breaking, but the infrastructure and desire to force young LGBTQ+ people into a system like this is already there. It is already happening. Now, with all 3 branches of government fully under the control of people that want to see this happen (with things like conversion therapy camps), there is no logical reason why they wouldn’t just implement such.
How about both. 2 in 1 combo
I don’t know why Jordy is no posing the war on Gaza. When both panels should show the yes posing.
I don’t mean to belittle your justified concerns, but Mexicans and Canadians would like to remind you that North America != USA.
And to imagine that this doesn’t affect either of those nations is very short sighted. Remember that there is a self declared queen of Canada based entirely on Trumpism and QAnon BS, as well as the potential mass detaining of innocent Mexicans.
I absolutely agree this will impact all of North America, but equating the US with North America is simply incorrect.
Oh, it’s worse than that for Canada. Trump during his last term tanked entire sectors of our economy with executive orders he spat out like tweets. Those “deals” were all taken apart in International court filings but the damage was already done.
Remember we are a very big landmass staffed by only a sliver more people than exist in the state of California. If the US goes under we will be ripped apart as no more than collateral damage.
I feel for your very unfortunate situation, but maybe you should’ve demanded more from your party, instead of putting the blame on people who draw the line at genocide. If the choice is between the number of genocides, maybe we should take a step back and reflect a little because this doesn’t stop anywhere. Next time there will be two, three…
Republicans can go as fascist as they want, but if the Democrats are drugged in this race to the right, they will lose. They endorsed the wall, they did nothing about the immigrants and they 100% backed a genocide no questions asked, ever, what difference is an immigrant or Arab supposed to see from this?
No matter how much you accuse the people who didn’t vote, the truth of the matter is that nothing will change if you don’t demand from your party to stand for some values. For now, they follow Trump moving to the right.
I don’t understand why only one group of people can be blamed.
Trump voters, non voters, the democratic party, etc all have varying amounts of blood on their hands. Be it the blood of Gazaouites, queer folks, immigrants, or simply women.
Because the democrats didn’t stand by any values that supposedly differentiated them from the republicans like I explained, but you don’t seem to really care. You can put it on non-voters or third party voters all you want, the truth is that Netanyahu got anything he ever wanted and asked for by the US under Biden and Harris and not acknowledging this is part of the problem. Immigrants got the same treatment under them as well, which I also mention and you don’t really care.
That’s the issue with not having any red line, you will always play by the rules of the far right. And that will make you indistinguishable from them which will alienate the people who want change. They don’t see an alternative to a very very dark situation. In good faith, you would very much understand why endorsing the wall, genocide Gaza and standing proudly by it, supporting Israel unwaveringly, not promoting any substantial progressive economic or ecological policies and in general why having an extreme neoliberal agenda would not compel people to vote for you.
It’s not on the disappointed voters that you people can’t understand what having a red line means. Consequentialism simply does not hold up when the difference are so miniscule and the evil is so big.
I’m really tired of going over this again and again, if you could feel a fraction of the pain the democrats and their oligarchs brought by committing the worst crime against humanity of the 21st century and how the millions of pleas for embargo went ignored this past year and a month, you wouldn’t be asking this.
I think there’s a slight misunderstanding. And a good part of it is on me.
First and foremost: democrats sucks. They suck so hard it’s honestly mind boggling that the republicans manage to beat them to the punch.
My point is that in that instance of first past the post election they’re the slightly less worst choice on a lot of issues, including Palestine (and yeah that previous slightly is doing a lot pf legwork). This is why one should vote for them. This is also why they need to be shamed and harassed into better stances.
I know it’s a heart wrenching choice. I should have worded my previous comment differently in order to establish that non voters where on the very bottom rung of the blame ladder.
But the US is a reprensentative Republic with a fucked up version of first past the post winner takes all voting (which is already fucked up in its own right). There are absolutely no good choices in that election. Only slightly less bad ones and whatever one can get away with while still retaining a modicum of sleep.
There should be riots about the Democrats, riots about the republicans, riots about how fragile the entire American political system is, riots about the election system where your vote only matters in a few select states, and some more riots for an unending list of reasons.
I do care, even if I’m not a US citizen and live in one of the regions where I’m the most sheltered against American tomfoolery (western Europe).
I just think that voting democrats in this election was the least uneffective way to do harm reduction.
I’m not disagreeing on the facts. The democrats truly are the lesser evil and they truly are very evil. They did awful and Trump will do worse. There should be protests and everything.
All that is good. I don’t know about you, you seem more open minded than the average user here, but most democrat supporters cannot understand the idea that someone can decide whether to vote and what to vote for with a different logic/philosophy - not with different facts.
Most of the time we judge things with a consequentialist mindset, it’s the default for most people. It goes like this: what action out of all the possibilities produces the best results, positive or negative, it doesn’t matter as long as one is above the other? I choose that. That’s very standard but it has problems and there are a lot of philosophers who have criticised consequentialism/utilitarianism. One criticism is what time in the future are you assessing the consequences? It can be a year, it can be ten years. If Harris had won, would the LGBTQ rights be protected more? Yes, but would the democrats become more unhinged in Gaza, as they basically got away with a genocide? Also yes. Would that further move them to the right(because that’s what the oligarchs who fund them want and since they met no resistance), adopting extreme far right policies, like endorsing the wall? So would they in the long term turn out worse and worse? Yes. Someone can argue therefore, that a crushing defeat can maybe help them move to the left even a little bit finally, which in the long term can be more beneficial.
Another criticism is that for a lot of people like I said there is a red line. That’s following the deontological framework, where basically the means justify the end, the opposite of consequentialism where the end justifies the means. I’m not saying one framework is better than the other, I believe both have their merits and can be applied in different contexts. In this particular example where the democrats have done so absolutely horrific on all fronts but especially on Palestine, voting for them cannot be justified. They have crossed too many lines to be justified by the end. That end being miniscule differences, basically non existent on anything other than a handful of social issues.
It’s ok if you disagree, I’m not going to tell you what to believe, the issue is not recognising the different perspective, which is just not going to lead you anywhere. I’m going to keep explaining this and you(or anyone in your place) will keep repeating the same consequentialist argument. It will not get you anywhere cause it’s not a matter of misunderstanding or not realising the consequences, it’s a matter of framework and a matter of ideology at the end of the day.
So, your argumentation is sound. The problem is that demonology is not a tennable position. Not quite sure where you got the idea that consequentialism is the default either, but thats an aside
Truth is, no, I don’t care. Liberals and progressives arent a viable coalition, the Democratic party is cooked
Our party? Democrats are no more my party than Republicans are. They are objectively the better option for someone like me given the alternative, but in no way do they represent me. They are just another element of the capitalist corporate hegemony, and I’m just a consumer to them.
I wasn’t the first to ask the question, but I haven’t heard an answer: If the genocide of Palestine is an acceptable price to pay to get a Democrat elected, then why wouldn’t trans genocide also be an acceptable price because of the threat to cis women? The utilitarian ethical calculation still works just fine.
You could ask that question, but the answer doesnt matter politically. Women, cis and trans, are on the same side in that if the genocide of the latter is plausible, the former is already pretty hard done by. A worsening of one position necessarily accompanies the other. Gaza does not work like this. Republicans are obviously the worse choice there too. You can argue about red lines and such, but thats not how realpolitik works. We get two options, nothing more or less, zero alternatives. The consensus necessary to change this is not possible in the current political climate. Denying support to the lesser evil on the basis of said evil when their opponent will do that same evil but more is not logical.
Tangentially relatee, there are those who sacrifice trans women for the sake of cis women. We call them terfs, and they’ve largely backed rightwing parties
I feel like the very existence of TERFs shows daylight between cis and trans women. In any case, even if it may not matter politically at the moment, I’m still interested in the answer to the question.
I think you are asking the wrong person, I’m the one saying the Palestinian genocide crosses the line. Although I don’t 100% understand the logic behind this. What’s the threat to cis women?
Although I’m suspecting the answer someone would give you is that it’s because the trans genocide will happen to “us the US citizens” not some Arabs at the other side of the world we don’t really care that much about.
Oh yes, sorry, I try to use Lemmy as a place for discussion, not an arena for rhetorical warfare. I had enough of that at the red site. So, I’m not challenging you, but building on your point.
Thanks for the Devil’s Advocate explanation. That’s what I suspect the answer is, too.
Dumb shit like this is why Trump won. Grow up or expect to lose in the future as well.
Trump won because rich people wanted him to, not because of niche memes on statistically insignificantly known websites.
Posting on lemmy is the equivalent to when I used to post on Final Fantasy themed bulletin boards in the mid 90s
Maybe that your post that given us the remakes
may God have mercy on my soul
the potential genocide (in the sense of complete erasure of culture as well as open murders with little to no consequences sense) here is even higher.
I’m not sure how your “genocide” stacks up to actual genocide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide#United_States
One genocide happening doesn’t mean another isn’t happening.
Do you deny the genocides in Darfur, Myanmar and Ethiopia as well?
It depends, can they use those to fuel their self-righteous bullshit?
Someone actually got on my ass the other day for calling Darfur the forgotten genocide as being some sort of anti-Palestine thing when it’s what people who have survived it are literally calling it.
the neat part is now we get both genocides.
He had one genocide, yes. But what about the second (and third) genocide?
And fourth?
Life could be an all you can eat buffet, except every course is genocide.
