Especially with the rise of “ghost postings” so quantity over quality is greater than ever these days
I think cover letters are still absolutely relevant to the job process.
I liken cover letters to cheat sheets that you prepare for an exam. You may not need to make one to be successful, but can be very helpful.
Usually with cover letters, I try to make the argument that I’m good for the company, and the company is good for me. This usually allows me to frame the way I look a new job as a business agreement where both parties can benefit, and that I’m not a parasite taking from them and not giving.
I don’t make cover letters for each and every position I apply to or look into, but for those ones i think I have a good chance of landing and those companies I believe in, I’ll absolutely put in more effort with cover letters.
Interesting. I’m a hiring manager, and I’ve seen many cover letters that actually hurt the candidate because they have typographical errors, poor grammar, or are addressed to a different organization entirely. Probably 85% of cover letters I see do no harm; most of the rest hurt the candidate. The way you’re describing a cover letter sounds like it would be beneficial, but I don’t see ones like that very often. I definitely would appreciate that you took the time to tailor it to us.
My advice for everyone is, if you’re going to write a cover letter, proofread it just like the resume. If you’re short on time, focus on the resume and skip the cover letter (if you can - they might be required for some applications). I definitely notice a sloppy cover letter, so not having a cover letter will hurt far, far less than a sloppy one.
I wouldn’t toss someone’s application just because their cover letter had a typographical error in it, especially if the candidate is otherwise well qualified. But, if I’m borderline on whether I want to interview someone, and the cover letter is sloppy, I’m probably going to pass. We’re pretty detail-oriented, and a sloppy cover letter makes me worry about the details.
Plot twist: make a one size fits all resume, but have AI tailor it and transmit it everywhere.
Double twist:
Just go work for the AI
You rang?
Hello? It is me Danny Barcelona
Are you sure you’re not Linux?
Is there a Lemmy equivalent to /r/beetlejuicing yet?
There wasn’t, but there is now: [email protected]
Please feel free to post this there.
Leetlejuicing
AI works just like intended,
Soon we’ll work for it instead.
I mean the attention economy is essentially that considering an algorithm is the middle man
Triple twist: Be the AI
none of the positions are real anyway. they just make them appear open because it benefits them financially.
when an employee leaves they just close the position and spread the work across existing employees.
I stan bottom sentiment.
Stop putting cover letters on your resume. Recruiters spend 7 seconds or less on 1 resume. A cover page essentially is a skip button because we don’t see any pertinent information and move on.
Resumes should be 1 page with a layout that attracts attention but isn’t distracting. Sentences should be structured like bullet points, short, sweet, and to the point.
Can we do bullet bullet points for extra creativity?
A cover page is not the same thing as a cover letter
This is 100% true. But you should also include a cover letter, just as a second document. I mean obviously not if you’re applying for McDonald’s but you get the idea
I feel like this is very situation dependent.
That may be the case in your company or industry, but not everywhere.
In my experience there’s been a big difference between a general resume I’m uploading to a place like a LinkedIn or Indeed (and letting the recruiters come to me), using that uploaded resume to apply to job postings on that site, and sending resume/application to specific companies on their site.
For the first one, hell no, no cover letter. How would that even work? No cover letter is better than a generic one.
For applying for specific postings on these sites? For me it depends on just how good the opportunity is. If I feel like there’s some sort of special connection that makes me tailor made for the role, the money is great, it’s doing really interesting work, or a company I really want to work for? Absolutely I’ll include a cover letter. I’m just looking to get out of a shit job, or the role doesn’t really move the needle, but I think it might be a good fit? Nah, just hit that quick apply button and move on.
But if I’m reaching out to a company directly?
Cover letter every time (unless they specifically say not to). If they don’t want it, they won’t read it, but I’ve never felt like it hurt my chances, and in a few interviews, they’ve specifically mentioned something about it.
I mean you say that, but I got my last amazing job because I mentioned pertinent info in my cover letter that resonated with the recruiter. I wouldn’t have got it if I just sent my resume.
I know it’s just anecdotal but hey
There are definitely different workflows for different recruiters, especially across industries.
Most of the places I applied to in my most recent job hunt had separate places to upload a cover letter and resume. If they didn’t ask for a cover letter, I didn’t write one, but I do see an argument to append one to your resume anyway.
Seriously, the job I have now requried a masters degree. My cover letter and my 10+ years of specfic experience got them to talk to me even though I only have an associates degree.
Now I am the go-to for search commitees in my department, and the only thing worse then no cover letter is when folks use a form one and forget to change ot or fill in the blanks.
I think they’re saying a cover letter is good. But some people’s “resumes” are more than one page with the first page being a cover letter. Almost all job apps have a separate upload for cover letters. If you’re applying in person or over email the rules are completely different.
Mine is 2 pages, and I think everyone I’ve hired has been 2 pages. Maybe it’s kinda dependent on the field you’re in? Idk, i can’t imagine cramming all my proficiencies, jobs, and responsibilities on one page.
It depends on what position you are hiring for. If someone doesn’t have two pages worth of experience then it better not be 2 pages.
Also the first page needs to have the most relevant so that you aren’t scrolling. Honestly most people are fine with one page. Unless you have tons of qualifications and experience it should fit on one page.
My cover letter is just a picture of Rick Astley
It’s always dependent upon the person looking. The question isn’t “will a cover letter get me the job” it’s “do I care to work for a place where the cover letter is what gets me the job”. For me, no.
I felt the same way until a friend of mine helped me redo my cover letter before COVID. Gotten 2 jobs since then and have tripped my salary in a handful of years. The latest gig (that was a salary doubling jump) was through a recruiter who said the cover letter helped me get the interview.
Could you give an example on what your cover letter looks like or maybe some tips?
Sure, this is close to what I use (I’ve tried to change it up a bit so I don’t give up too much info), and I’ve included prompts for what to fill in. I’ll admit it is very generic at this level, but you should be able to take these bones and make your own monster out of it 😁
Just remember to sell yourself to them, even if it feels icky and gross, that’s what job applications are. If you do exaggerate in your cover letter/resume, keep it reasonable and be prepared to support it if/when you get interviewed!
Name
Address
Phone #To whom it may concern,
I discovered your <job title> position <on website, from person etc>, and I would like to know more about this position. I am a <description of yourself as a professional, include something about wanting a challenge>. I think that I would be a good fit for this position because <list qualities related to the field applying for, don’t be afraid to exaggerate (within reason) - sell yourself!>.
I have <number> years of experience in <your field> and <any professional certifications or relevant education or experience>. I am <list characteristics RELEVANT TO POSITION! Reference interpersonal skills! Sell yourself to the company!>.
<Comments about your excitement for the position>. <Thank them for considering you for the position>, <statement about wanting to learn more/meeting them to discuss>. I can be reached at the listed phone number or via email at <your professional email>.
Regards,
<Your name>
Because I’m bored and feeling silly while kiillng time:
Jason Vorhees
1313 Crystal Lake Rd
206-555-0123To whom it may concern,
I discovered your Summer Camp Slasher position on StabbedIn, and I would like to know more about this position. I am a relentless killer who is up for a new challenge in murdering teens at camp. I think that I would be a good fit for this position because I have the ability to teleport, survive being shot/stabbed/set on fire, and am a dedicated problem solver.
I have 40 years of experience in menacing camp counsellors and have multiple endorsements from various local police departments. I am a dedicated killer who will keep coming back until the job is done or I am relieved of the position.
I believe this position will be a good fit for me, and I believe I will bring a lot of dread to the camp. Thank you for your consideration for this position, I look forward to meeting to discuss this opportunity and demonstrate my skills. I can be reached at the listed phone number or via email at [email protected].
Regards,
Jason Vorhees
You’re hired!
Is Jason Vorhees a real person?
Cover latter? Is it the 50ties? If a company wants a cover letter, I ain’t applying. You got my CV. Need more info? Call me, the number is on the CV.
I guess this depends where you live and what professions your are applying for. In my region and field, a cover letter goes with saying. It always has been like that, ever since I was looking for summer jobs, and continues to be the standard.
I love being part of the solution and not the problem, so fuck cover letters. If no applicants submit a cover letter, period, then we collectively just improved life for ourselves. Recruiters be ghostin anyway.
I still don’t know what a cover letter even is. never used one and don’t plan on starting. no one’s reading that crap anyway
I interpreted it as the resume shows your experience while the cover letter shows you know how to write coherently (plus gives you an opportunity to clarify anything on your resume)
It’s the thing that gets fed into an LLM to opaquely grade you before your resume gets looked at by a human
That’s why you use an LLM to generate it
The resume shows experience and the cover letter shows personality. If the job has any kind of soft skills a cover letter is a bonus, if the job is super technical it’s probably not necessary. It also depends on the workplace.
If it is a job you actually want though I would recommend writing something. I’m on a smaller team and read all the resumes of applicants. I actually read them because I’m going to be the one contacting, interviewing, and working with them. I absolutely read the cover letters and give a small bonus to people who include them.
So how is that working out for you? Genuinely curious.
It worked fine for me, I’ve landed three jobs that way. That was a while ago though, the last time was in 2017. My last two jobs I took because I had some connections call out of the blue. I’ve been very fortunate in that regard. I can’t imagine that would happen again, most of my connections are getting close to retirement age at this point.
For my industry, IT, pretty well. A nice upward career trajectory and an average of about a month from search start to offer over the past couple of jobs
Unless something really good comes up yeah. Also most of the time I just put my generic CV up and get calls from recruiters. So the actual people hiring don’t even see my CV
Is the bottom one not what we’ve all been doing for the past 10 years? If you haven’t worked more than 5 or so places it should also look like that right?
Also fuck cover letters. Never making one, I don’t care who they send
As someone who hires a lot of MBA types
I could give a shit about your cover letter
I could give a shit about your nice follow up email after the interview
I realize I’m a sample size of one, but I also don’t do cover letters or follow up notes for mydelf and I guess I am doing well enough that I have a bunch of energetic MBA types working for me.
I do it like that, but it has backfired before. I posted a resume that mentions I can code to a teaching position (Highschool maths). Not relevant to the job at all. Got the job. Some random admin person remembered I can write code and that meant that every other teacher should address their IT questions to me. No extra pay and I had to explain Microsoft software a lot of the time, which I don’t even use.
Generating BS cover letters is one of the few good uses I’ve found for chat gpt
That might get you in the door but a poor resume built by AI with key phrases to fool the algorithm will be an insta delete by a human.
Who said anything about resumes built with AI? Certainly not me.
Just do what I do and have an AI generate the cover letter. Saves me a ton of time, and gives me a personalized letter for every job while only writing two sentences.
(But then again Lemmy absolutely hates AI with a blind passion—just as much as you hate cars—so I don’t know why I’m actually suggesting this. It works, though.)
Seems nobody sent the memo to all those career advisers, coaches, job seeking assistance places etc. because I still see it as “recommended practice” LMAO
Had one guy apply for a job in my field saying “My experiences in different field> will help me as <job title>.”
There is very little overlap in hard skills (soft ones obviously do help). Not like that matters a whole lot - their actual list of past jobs and skills would have landed them an interview at least, because we already expect it to be a learn-as-you-go type of deal. Bro would have been better off leaving it out and I would have just assumed they’re trying to strike out in a different direction.
(I told HR to invite them for an interview anyway, because fuck cover letters - I’m not gonna hold anyone to a higher standard there than I’d like to be held to)
Bcc everyone
LPT for all of you job seekers.
Huey smacking down those supes in space now?
Wait, is this live action Boimler?
Oh shit, it is!
It’s from Strange New Worlds.
Apparently I’ll need to watch that soon!
The episode following that one is even better.
Nice.
This sounds too good to be true. What’s the catch?
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You’re my hero
I was really hoping they offered a self hosting option.
Oooh, my partner is working on his resume; I’m going to share this with him. Thanks!
It lets you share as a link and you can self host.
One Lemmy gold for you, thank you kind stranger!
Holy shit I love it
I’m a huge Motörhead fan. Sorry, this one is cute, but the other one is better.
Good! Don’t make art for me. Make it for yourself! If you love it, so will others! :D
I didn’t actually make it, it was just a very relevant reaction meme.
Why is this good? Not being negative, just want to understand.
Easy to customize and have multiples with similar information in different layouts, easily tailor the same experiences to focus on specific types of positions, share your resume as a link, self hosted option with docker, etc.
Its really quite nice. I host my own.
Edit: fixed a word
As someone from outside the US, I have no clue wtf is a cover letter, this isn’t a thing in Brazil, you just send your resume.
Maybe it’s the shit market that I’m applying to, but when I apply for a retail job, they want a fully filled out application (that auto fill always Borks, so I have to type everything in manually) as well as a cover sheet and some places want you to take a personality quiz that you have to pass for hr to even see your application. I couldn’t imagine applying to 4 jobs a day, let alone 40.
I imagine we are talking about corporate postings where you just paste a link to LinkedIn and that does most of the work?
Yeah all of the lower end jobs are like this unfortunately, anything that gets pasted more than 3 times a year on indeed or any job site. Middle/management side it’s like that but with 3-6 interviews instead and no guarantee of a job. Trade jobs seem to be the outlier, but harder to actually find who all is looking and for them to “legitimately” (insurance/taxes) employ you. High end is 80% networking so a lot of the ground work is already done (but still a total time/energy sink that I can’t be bothered for).
if indeed doesn’t allow me to quick apply, it’s gotta be a dream job to even want to go to their site and do even more work.
Yeah, about that cover sheet. Did you not get the memo? We’re putting new cover sheets on all the applications now, mmmkay? If you could just do that from now, that’d be great.
I’ve worked for several big corps have never seen anything like that.
lucky you, it’s becoming more common.
There is at least a WorkDay integration, likely others: https://business.linkedin.com/talent-solutions/linkedin-hiring-integrations/workday
Lol holy shit I forgot about those “personality tests.” They are (well, were at least, I imagine its still like this) basically just a way to filter out people too stupid to not know what answers they want to hear. Questions like, “You see a coworker stealing money from the register, do you: a) pretend you didn’t see anything, b) join them and start a gang, or c) tell the manager on duty”
Shit is so laughably stupid.
Yeah, the trick is to pretend you are A mixture of Ned Flanders and a ditzy cheerleader when you answer.
Jesus that sounds so demeaning. I haven’t had to apply for a job in about 15 years now. All networking, and I was poached and offered my current job. Union now, so I’m set. I don’t remember having to jump through so many hoops when I was younger and applying for a job, but recently I passed by a Wendy’s and there must have been 50 people lined up outside with resumes because there was a job posting. That many people for one burger job, that’s hard times.
