Soviet (mission accomplished) : 3 years against US + China and muslim world backing after USSR dissolved… US (disorganised retreat) : 3 days with no backer…
Modern afganistant still rely on soviet infrastructure…
Why aren’t you talking about the Afghanis that fought against the communists because they did not want communism? That was a huge chunk of Afghanistan.
You talking about the Taliban? Think they were called the Mujahedeen back then tho.
That’s where they got their US training, Osama Bin Laden was in newspapers all over the US and Afghanistan and hailed as a “freedom fighter” and equated to the founding fathers…
We didn’t just train his group, we turned him into a folk hero over there. Then we killed him and turned him into a martyr, and dumped his body in the ocean so there’s not even hard proof he’s dead.
If the goal was a decades long plan to invent an inspiring legend for them to fight against invaders, I don’t think we could have done better if we tried.
Same way I don’t speak about religious fruitcake fighting secularism, slaver fighting abolistionist, genocider fighting humanity, etc.
You avoid the views and desires of the majority so your views can be forced on others.Like most revolutions the Afghan communist revolution was not the popular majority fighting the government. It starts with the GRU murdering the “elected” leader to force their boot on the people.
The problem is historically you are not liberating anyone. You are merely changing who enslaves them to the communist party/state, and in some cases end up enslaving people to a greater degree.
Those Afghanis were fighting for freedom from Soviet/ML murder and intolerance. Believe it or not some people like their way of life and don’t want other’s views shoved down their throat with a truncheon.
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Ukrainians, you are up next! Stop following that clown and sue for peace. To my western media brainwashed fellow brethren: do some research, Putin has been offering peace talks since 3 days after the beginning of the war. He’s being blown away by the Z clown, like a spoiled kid of a rich dad (USA!). Stop the suffering of slavic people and end the war now by starting peace talks.
Edit: let me make it easier for your research. Here you go: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
You can’t drag people into the 21st century. We tried.
I know way too little about this to have an actual opinion about it. I read the article just as a way to learn more about what’s going on with those people right now. At the very least their lives are ruined, and we’re mostly just hearing from the refugees.
Ending quote: The man blames the former Afghan government under Ashraf Ghani and the international coalition, which operated in the country for 20 years, for “everything falling apart so quickly.” “We have lost everything, even our hope for the future. We’re living in a country of lies, a country that no longer exists,” he concludes.
At some point, the people of Afghanistan should be able to take control of their own country. How can a vast majority of the people sit there and let a tiny percentage dictate the lives and rules for everyone? Kick the Taliban out of your country.
How can a vast majority of the people sit there and let a tiny percentage dictate the lives and rules for everyone?
Is that a serious question?
The vast majority of the world lives like that…
Even in first world countries.
I’m American, and a very very tiny percentage of other Americans hold the vast amount of wealth and use it to buy the majority of both parties off so that literally no matter who wins any election, they’re going to be someone that puts corporate profits over the average American.
Where do you live that’s truly led by the majority?
Fun fact, the dynamic where the majority class controls the “rules” is called communism. Maybe they want us to give it a go here in the US?
The problem is that the Taliban have popular support. The media don’t want to report it, but this is a society where public life has always been under the purview of men, it’s a largely Muslim country, very rural, and the alternative power centers there are chock full of child molesters and corrupt individuals. The Taliban, despite their strong ideological position, has a lot going for them. They’re not taking bribes to sell out their values. They’re capable of maintaining stability. Even if people disagree with some or other things about them, theyre better than the alternatives. Fact is, they’re in power there because they’re the only organization capable of holding power there.
It reminds me of Iraq right before 9/11 happened… ye they had a piece of shit dictator Sadam; absolutely. But they wasn’t being bombed to smithereens. And in the mess of war in Iraq the ISIS were able to fuck shit up n grow , even growing into syria, Afghanistan n maybe other countries…
it’s a largely Muslim country
Pretty much all the Abrahmic religions do this shit when they’re in power…
I wouldn’t have pointed it out, because it’s kind of like saying the sky is blue. But from the rest of your comment it seems like you legitimately think it’s just Muslims., And not that entire religious family
It’s not just Muslims that are fundamentalist extremists. But of every major religion, Islam has the highest rate of that kind of extremism. There are plenty of Christian countries which are socially progressive and endorse modern sensibilities. No Muslim countries are.
I have a dear friend of mine who is a religious minority in Egypt (she’s a Copt). The paranoia that she and her parents have when interacting with Muslims is saddening, because of how it’s been justified. Her church has lost several members to religious violence, and she’s lived through a suicide bombing which happened at that church and targeted Christians.
I’m not saying there aren’t Christian extremists. There are. But the Muslim extremist problem is an order of magnitude larger within that faith.
Judge individual Muslims for their own beliefs. But there is no Christian version of the Taliban state or ISIS. And Islam is to blame for the actions of its extremist adherents writ large. It desperately needs a religious reformation, but instead, the Saudis are still chopping the heads off of people who offend their religious police.
Feels like a geopolitical issue more than a religious issue.
It’s not just Muslims that are fundamentalist extremists. But of every major religion, Islam has the highest rate of that kind of extremism
Not really…
There’s over 1.7 billion Muslims in the world, that’s a lot of people.
But there is no Christian version of the Taliban state or ISIS
So basically you’re saying we can just ignore all the countries where they’re trying to do it, just ignore them till their in power?
Nah, I don’t see how that helps anyone except Christian extremists.
are you lobotomized?
I’m not saying we should ignore anything. I’m saying we shouldn’t ignore the extremely high rate of extremism within Islam.
But if you want to prove me wrong, point to a single Muslim country where apostasy and homosexuality are socially accepted
I’m saying we shouldn’t ignore the extremely high rate of extremism within Islam.
And I’m saying you don’t seem to understand how large a number 1.7 billion is…
But if you want to prove me wrong, point to a single Muslim country where apostasy and homosexuality are socially accepted
Lebanon
Can you name a country where the Christian majority do that?
They’re openly against LGBT because “the Bible says so” and they claim they have to follow it.
The Bible also says if anyone even starts questioning if they should still be Christian, then they need to be executed to prevent the spread.
So they might not say it, but they’re all about it, or just lying hypocrites who are making the personal choice to harass people who are LGBT.
Lebanon isn’t a Muslim nation. It has a significant Muslim plurality. And homosexuality is de facto illegal there AND extremely socially unacceptable, with 85% of Lebanese people saying it should be “rejected by society.”
Give me a Muslim nation where homosexuality and apostasy are both legal and socially acceptable.
Since you edited your post after I replied like a dirty little liar, here’s a second reply.
Can I name a Christian majority country where being gay is generally acceptable, being an apostate is generally acceptable, and both are legal? Yeah. Canada, the US, Australia, Spain, the UK, France, Germany, etc, etc, etc.
They really don’t. Israel is a Jewish country and women are allowed to go to school or university.
There’s countless Christian countries and that shit happens nowhere.
You’re confusing a country where a majority of citizens are Christian with countries who are lead by Christian leaders…
I can’t think of a single equivalent than the Vatican, and if you’re acting like that’s a great government…
We probably dont agree on what makes a government good.
The statement was that this happens with all abrahamitic religions in power.
You’re confusing a country where a majority of citizens are Christian with countries who are lead by Christian leaders…
I’m not, it’s just the closest to the stated premise.
I can’t think of a single equivalent than the Vatican, and if you’re acting like that’s a great government…
Same. But then I doesn’t make sense to make that statement in the first place about the other religions.
Because there’s zero evidence to back it up.
I said Muslim once. The rest of my comment is about Afghanistan.
How can a vast majority of the people sit there and let a tiny percentage dictate the lives and rules for everyone?
As an American looking at American policy right now…that’s ironic.
Yeah but they’re extremists and terrorists who want to control all aspects of the media, stop women from having rights over their bodies and return to their place in society serving men, criminalize everything that goes against their religious beliefs and restrict voting and democracy to preserve their ‘values’, carry guns with them everywhere and fanatically praise their leaders.
Err, there’s some differences somewhere I’m sure…
A lot of the Afghanistan problem is that they have no national identity, they’re a collection of tribes and warlords, so the only united group in the country is the Taliban, and the Taliban has a lot of help from Pakistan and other regional powers.
What in the racist fuck is this generalization?
Same way stuff happens in the USA… inequality n disparity keeps growing… The ruling / wealthy 🤑 class keeps consolidating wealth n we all just go on with our lives… Don’t we?
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The problem is that “the people of Afghanistan” don’t see themselves as a united people. Regional and tribal ties are far, far stronger in the region than any true sense of national identity outside of “let’s cooperate just long enough to kick these fucking foreigners out”. Immediately after that’s accomplished, the region regresses into very old-school power politics and warlord fiefdoms. This has happened twice now in the space of 50 years. The truly galling point, though, is that US leaders and officials should have known this… but there were effectively zero coherent plans to handle that aspect of the occupation.
No shit. The second we left they fell apart. No resistance.
As far as I’m concerned we should only help those that help themselves, like Ukraine is doing. Afghanistan has always been Taliban simps. Those women know where their men sleep and have knives ffs.
I suppose the devil they know is better than the one they don’t know.
Yeah, we should only help white people right?
This is a great message for the world, we’ll help you, as long as you’re white
I don’t know if he edited it but he said nothing about race. It was about fighting back
What do you think the solution is? Indefinite US occupation? At that point wouldn’t you want America to just take them over?
Has nothing to do with race. Ukraine didn’t bend over for Russia instead fucking their shit up day 1. Their president didn’t flee instead stayed and mocked the occupiers by showing off him and his crew were still in Kyiv.
Afghanistan? We trained them for twenty years to stand up for themselves as a independent democratic nation and threw it away the second we left. What a fucking waste. They didn’t even have fucking OIL to take. Nor was Osama there, or ever was.
If Afghanistan actually gave a fuck and tried but failed my opinion would be quite different. I’d be all “remember our fallen Afghan allies” o7 n shit.
So yeah take your standard operation trolling elsewhere. I’ve seen this exact same talking point before it’s not original, think for yourself for a goddamn change*
If you think that’s the timeline of events for Afghan forces, then you don’t know shit. We never trained them to use the equipment we spent trillions of dollars on. The manuals didn’t even have an Arabic translation.
We apparently spent billions doing it…
Or just shuffled money around. Either way an attempt was made.
And somehow the person calling out racism is always dubbed the racist by those who refuse to acknowledge their own privilege, let alone their blatant bias. Fucking typical.
Bro, you went so far that you actually became racist yourself. You literally said: “Do help themselves” == “white” “Don’t help themselves” == “not white”
You are pushing the american stereotype for “lazy immigrants”
Thats kinda cringe tbh.
“Talking about the dynamics of racism is racist.” I’ll let MLK know.
Nah. Thats not racist. Stating that countries primarily populated by non-whites are somehow too weak or lazy to fight for themselves, however, is definitely pretty racist.
This particular country that we’re actually discussing was indeed too lazy to fight for itself and gave up within 2 weeks after decades of being occupied.
EDIT: And that’s if you don’t consider this the wishes of the country itself. To a large extent, I think the Taliban have popular support within the country and I wouldn’t be surprised if there were Taliban sympathizers or supporters within the ranks of the military.
Where did you see that? They were pointing out that the person they responded to made the very implication you’re accusing them of making.
That user who suggested we ‘help’ is either malicious or ignorant. Because help doesn’t mean we release the reserves of money we’ve stolen from the Afghans. It means invade them again, whether she means it or not.
The best thing we can do now is let the Afghans be sovereign and no longer interfere (which won’t happen). You can expect nothing good socially from there, as the Americans helped the Taliban defeat local progressive and secular forces in the 70s. All we can hope for is for them to eventually stand up on their own two feet.
Anyone who whines about the plight of Afghan women is either doing propaganda or is misled. Afghan women have children too btw - children that are starving - have Biden release the reserves.
Are you implying that non-whites are incapable of helping themselves?
Found the racist.
That’s been the American motto since the country’s independence. Huge debates about helping the french aristocracy at the start of the reign of terror, but not even a single response to the former slaves in Haiti after their revolution.
We didn’t like the Reign of Terror because it was the Reign. Of. Terror. Also bribery with the XYZ Affair turned us against the murderous revolutionaries.
We didn’t help the Haitians because of Southern Slavers were scared of that happening to them. If only it did…
Thank you for your nuanced view of history that takes continuity of causal events into account. Today I learned about the XYZ affair.
No problem, it even points out within the first few paragraphs about how the French wanted to seize our ships, adding more reason for American discontempt of the French Revolution. Kinda forgot about that bit.
I see you didn’t like the earliest examples I could think of with the systemic racism in foreign affairs. How about the utter contempt from Kissinger towards PoC when he was Secretary of State? How’s that African neoimperialism? Maybe you’d prefer talking about the “war” in the Philippines? Perhaps you’d like to hear about the absolute refusal for the last 120 years to make Puerto Rico a state? Maybe the US support of Nazi Germany up until 1941 is more to your liking? The genocides of Native Americans that continued into the 70s? The ongoing hypocritical genocide of latino people on our southern border? The oil wars? COINTELPRO tactics being used abroad? I have a lot of examples of racist foreign affairs from the US.
Ok buddy, you’re just saying words by now. Get off Wikipedia and get a life.
Which ones are nonsensical? I’ll expand on the topic for you.
You use text-based social media and deride reading?
:(
Sorry I must have missed that in the above posts. When did anyone mention race?
They hail from the instance of the sensitive and easily triggered
blahaj
Man that place really is terrible. They claim to support safety and inclusivity, but appear perfectly happy to berate, attack, and bully others, as long as their opinions are the bad opinions.
They are liberals with paper thin corporate-friendly politics.
Not to be a dick but if they don’t like it they could do something about it themselves. Hoping that “the world will do something” rarely has good results.
Yeah haven’t they been at war or occupied for like 200 years? The withdrawal was a clusterfuck but it was never not going to be one. Idk what the rest of the world can do at this point. I read China wants to tap into those sweet lithium mines. Let them give it a shot I guess?
Honestly, I’d love to see them try. Mostly because it’d be hilarious for them to be inconvenienced, but still
Putting aside the humanitarian aspect and destabilizing the region etc etc I agree it would be an entertaining show. From what I’ve heard maybe we won’t have to wait very long.
Not to be a dick but if they don’t like it they could do something about it themselves
It’s 1933 and the Nazis have taken power. You don’t like it so you say something. Ooops, now you have a bullet in your brain.
The Taliban are not the Nazis, not even close. They’re a guerilla group, and not a particularly effective one. They lost almost all engagements with the US and allied armies. They were mainly good at running away and doing drugs in the mountains.
The problem is, the people of Afghanistan do not have the ability or desire to be a unified country right now, so there is no one to oppose them. The Yugoslav Partizans (who did fight the Nazis) would have beat their brains in. The IRA would have easily beaten them. There are even modern day rebel groups who would beat them.
The opposition was mostly murdered by the Taliban before and after the fall. The military aid we gave the Afghans was also entirely fake and we allowed it be stolen.
But then people in this thread have the arrogance to come in here and go on rants about how it’s all the Afghans’ fault when we literally occupied their country for 20 fucking years and achieved nothing. The US is fully responsible for his situation.
It’s disgusting to see Americans attack Afghans in this thread because they’re butthurt that a woman said Afghans were forgotten, which they absolutely were. No wonder so many people in the world hate us.
White Supremacist rhetoric, wonderful
I left reddit because most of you are just nazis, now you’re here spamming the same garbage
Do you… think it’s good that Europe has some of the craziest guerilla groups in history? Like do you think that’s something to brag about? Ok…
Nigeria still has Boko Haram, which was the deadliest group in the 2010s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram
In DRC, there were militias responsible for multiple civil wars in the 90s and 2000s. Latin America has had a ton of rebel groups (both left and right wing) too.
Are you happy now?
The overwhelmingly left leaning reddit, which practically never had any even right leaning headline upvoted to /r/all (besides The Donald, when it existed) are mostly Nazis…
If r/politics are Nazis, then Mao must be a centrist by your standards. Just how deluded are you?
Forget quickly? You want someone to invade again? What is the world supposed to do? They sanction, break diplomatic relations, issue travel advisories, the only thing left is another war. Nobody wants that.
Well, you know what they say, “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, and stay the fuck out of Afghanistan.”
The world spent trillions of dollars and thousands of lives to help you. It didn’t take.
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why didn’t you fight harder for your country
When the Trump fascists took power in 2016 what did you do?
what difference does that make
Being elected is now “taking power”. Ok, commie.
Okay fascist
Afghanistan is full of a bunch of small tribes. They all hate each other and refuse to work together. Just go Google “dancing boy parties Afghanistan” you will quickly lose any sympathy for the people and culture. The US had to turn a blind eye to pedophile parties, which are a time honored tradition, in order to keep the peace.
The forces the US trained and equipped were basically the dregs of society that would be in prison in most countries. They would steal and sell shit to the Taliban. Claiming to have driven many miles on patrol to syphon and sell the gas was common practice. They sold the guns and trucks. There is no helping this country. It’s going to be a shit show until they get past their tribal hatred and work together.
quickly lose any sympathy for the people and culture
Just as easily as when I Google “Americans with guns”
Fuck me for wanting one as a trans person, amirite?
Does anyone have stats on Afghanistan’s opinions on America’s occupation right before we left? I imagine most of them wanted America to leave…
Though I’m now curious what their TRUE opinion was of the Taliban, because I see people wanting Communism back in Russia, I imagine people wanted the Taliban back instead of the Americans.
I’m sure at least 50 percent of them are like “Fuck no” (women), but when that group isn’t a huge part of the people guarding the country, I wonder if this was inevitable. Even if we somehow destroyed the entire Taliban, there would be another fundamental Islamic group who wanted to take over.
I think they looked at the Taliban as a pragmatic choice and a familiar force. They also saw the US leaving as at least an end to years of war and a return to something resembling normalcy.
