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Wonder how ol Chuck is handling it
Chuck “Chicanery” McGill?
Chuck Mangione. Jazz musician
Most definitely, he isn’t the unibomber largely indiscriminately killing people based on some ideological manifesto, he targeted someone in charge of driving many families into bankruptcy if not outright murdering patients with denials, and targeted a problem that many know to be true. They may be trying to rewrite the legacy of the CEO, but he was not “one of the good guys”.
Although there is some crossover to the unibomber’s manifesto, in the sense that where this would have been the breaking point in societies of the past waiting for a revolution, the new means of control and technology is being used to keep it under control, from all sides, even and specially those that abused social networks to put Trump in power. Can’t have the status quo of “[I can] stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody [but not you]” challenged.
Most definitely, he isn’t the unibomber largely indiscriminately killing people based on some ideological manifesto, he targeted someone in charge of driving many families into bankruptcy if not outright murdering patients with denials, and targeted a problem that many know to be true.
By my math, Brian Robert Thompson killed 40,000 people.
Yes and, board members are the ones enabling the CEOs. They need to be targeted as well.
There’s a lot of overlap.
In recent years, around 30% of newly appointed board members in the S&P 500 have been active or retired CEOs.
And:
CEOs and directors with financial backgrounds constitute 59% of the incoming class of S&P 500 directors…
Source, for whatever it’s worth. I admittedly just did a cursory Google search out of curiosity and that’s what popped up, but I had a feeling it’d be a significant percentage.
Reminder that Luigi didn’t do it
Luigis can’t melt steel beams?
Oh you know who did?
I’m still waiting for his bullet proof alibi to emerge. So far, the closest I’ve gotten is some mumbling about a false flag and “big news coming, watch this space”.
Feels like the “Luigi is a fall guy” folks stumbled half drunk out of a “Sandy Hook Was Crisis Actors” convention.
Even if you have irrefutable evidence it was him, it wasn’t him.
That’s conceptually backward to how our justice system (on paper) determines guilt. It has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Luigi did it. Nobody else needs to be convicted or even accused for Luigi to be determined to be innocent.
And there are some good reasons to doubt from what we’ve seen as the public. The cops said they found his backpack in NY but then also found him with his backpack. The pictures don’t quite match. It doesn’t make sense for him to keep incriminating evidence on him in a McDonald’s. There’s a lot about it that stinks.
We support him, even if he’s innocent.
hopefully not
can you explain your thought process behind this comment?
I have zero interest in people who commit murder. I get tired of seeing this at the top of every site as well.
what are your thoughts on self defence and the limits of similar terms?
Murder bad
No it won’t. America will have forgotten by next week.
Not if something happens again.
True but no one else has the balls.
If the trial is televised/streamed, it could be an OJ type thing that keeps going.
But… probably, yeah.
Just keep it up
I’ve been surprised by how many people are celebrating this guy. Just goes to show how strongly the contempt is felt for the American healthcare system.
When you remember when “pre-existing conditions” was a thing until Obama stopped it and the fear that it will be allowed again, you absolutely are not going to shed a damn tear. If you really want to be depressed, watch Sicko by Michael Moore. Things have changed a little bit since then, but the attitude of the insurance and big pharma have absolutely not. The no surprises act that went in this year was another step forward, but who knows how long it will stick. People still go to other countries to get medical procedures and medication. People still go bankrupt from medical bills. People still have to spend hours on the phone begging some underpaid drone to get them healthcare because what your doctor says you need is overriden by a fucking corporation.
Some comments from Michael Moore yesterday: https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2024/12/16/michael-moore-response-united-healthcare-ceo-shooting-luigi-mangione/77020835007/
I think it’s more about class warfare than healthcare specifically. All my European friends are cheering him on too despite not experiencing hardship with healthcare
My girlfriend was very much in the club of “murder is bad no matter what” until I explained exactly why a health insurance CEO would be targeted.
I’ve been really wrestling with my own anti-violence and the now-obvious fact that violence gets results.
Violence, bribery and blackmail.
As an American: it’s absolutely both.
Europeans are famously derisive of the American healthcare system though, so for whatever reason they seem to care specifically about his impact on that. I think in general America looms large around the world, economically, militarily, culturally. And certainly online. Having something to feel superior about seems to provide a channel for pent up frustration or resentment. Because believe me there’s no other reason for Europeans to care as much as they do about how much my healthcare costs.
Everyone in Canada here loves him too. It’s absolutely about class warfare.
I mean…that doesn’t count. Canada loves EVERYODY. It’s the Mr Rodgers of countries. Not that that’s a bad thing. I’m just saying it carrys about as much weight as your grandma pinching your cheek and saying you’re the MOST handsome boy.
See Starlight Tours for an insight into friendly Canadian police :/
lol we don’t love everyone. Ask a Canadian how they feel about Americans.
You should pay more attention to history. Specifically the wars we have been in…
Aside from the fact that you just offered a stereotype as an argument, you didn’t even get the stereotype right. Canadians don’t love everyone. Canadians are nice. That’s the stereotype.
…stereotype?
And we aren’t even nice. We are just spineless and struggle with honesty. It’s all just for show
I’ve now lived long enough to actually meet a couple of Canadian assholes. They exist.
Are you saying I’m not nice :(
Lol you should ask Indians how they are being treated in Canada right now
Which Indians, the answer would probably be the same though.
We refer to first nations as indigenous in canada
the American
healthcarewealthcare system
This will probably be taken down, but psychology is what I do so here it is. This is not endorsement this is an explanation as to why there’s different sentiment for this shooting.
This was stated in Trevor Noah’s latest podcast in open discussion. Josh Johnson raises the point. Most gun violence stories on the news, people personally feel threatened. Outraged that they or theirs could be at a music festival, a movie, at school. Most assholes with a gun are killing innocent people, never mind all the other bits. And most are clearly a little “crazy.”
This was targeted, killer on killer, no collateral (death/injury) damage. The CEO had kids that’s the collateral damage. There’s even a lady with coffee who walks on scene then nopes out unharmed.
This isn’t endorsement. This WHY the public as a whole doesn’t seem to mind. The guy who died killed thousands. That solves the innocent part. The killer doesn’t feel threatening to any of us. Because he’s not. That solves the threat. As for sanity, gun arguments aside, the manifesto isn’t unhinged.
And so we find ourselves in an unusual space. Understandably so. This is new.
No I didn’t read the article.
Sure. Can you explain why this guy gets charged with terrorism, but school shooters and Jan 6ers don’t?
Perception management, probably. I thought terrorism applied to upsetting state entities not private ones. How, by any stretch of the imagination, is a private health insurance company part of the United States government? It’s bizarre. Jan 6 would fall under that umbrella for sure.
What do you think?
My thoughts is they’re making an example of him because he went after the true ruling class - CEOs. And the Jan 6 ers went after “the help” so the cops don’t care. Just like when the children of the masses are gunned down in schools. Get a school shooter at the private academy the president’s kids all attend and suddenly the ruling class will care.
“The help”. That deserves more attention.
The killer is not threatening to you until semeone decides that you deserve to be killed.
Found the CEO!
I haven’t killed tens of thousands of sick people so I’m safe.
Someone might decide that something else you did is wrong.
That could happen any day but how is that fact relevant?
Do you want to live in a society where anyone can kill you because they think you’re a bad person?
That’s all of human history and will never change.
However, now that the untouchable monsters that run things are getting a taste, things are just a tiny bit better.
That’s today. That’s our current reality. That’s the society that I already live in, because I’m a horrible, nasty, evil person who rides a bicycle to get places.
I’m in Madison, Wisconsin, too, so it’s rather fresh in my mind that anyone can kill me just randomly out of the blue.
We already do. You can already buy a gun, get it the same day, and straight up shoot someone with minimal barriers. What are you on about? Children are sacrificed every day and now that a CEO is dead its a huge problem?
Any idiot in a car can kill me at any time, because he’s getting road rage. I’m living in Europe, grew up in the 80s where nuclear war was a very real danger that could break out any moment, vaporizing all the cities. Even though we were allies of the US, highways were prepared to be outfitted with nuclear mines so the Russians couldn’t roll all over Western Europe. We have a war right now next to our countries which could turn into WW3 at any time. A close friend of mine is Bosnian, she has seen the fighting in the Balkans few years agom
People kill each other all the time, because they consider each other bad persons. I just refuse to live in fear.
And the longer I live, the more I believe in violence as a legitimate defense. If someone shot Putin tomorrow, I would be happy. If someone had shot Hitler in the 30s the would would probably have been a better place.
So where is the line that divides killing someone is a good thing vs a bad thing? I used to believe it is always evil, but I can’t anymore.
I would absolutely love to live in a different world where everything is marijuana, video games and puppies. But we don’t live there, which is why the work class must remain armed no matter the pretext.
I could get shot in a school shooting that wasnt prevented because despite the outrage of the Democratic party no one wanted to impliment perimeter fences, check points, metal detectors, or building a police station next door or inside every school of the nation. It would still be true that the working class must remain armed.
We live in the shitter multiverse, and it is not a good place to be. Accept this fact of life.
No, but I don’t want to live in a society where people in power just let people in need die
If the person you’re replying to was a health insurance CEO I would be extremely supportive of that.
That’s the point. “WHY” did they decide it had to be you.
semeone decides
I would simply not deny Luigi his health care. And I’d sleep easy.
Someone else may decide to kill you for a different reason.
That’s a pretty dumb argument, this was a targeted killing. You’d be supportive of killing a major terrorist right? Most would, because the terrorist is evil and kills thousands of Innocents… Well it’s literally no different here. They can be against murder and yet still support killing a terrorist, which is what a Healthcare CEO is.
So you’re upset that we killed Osama Bin Ladin then?
From what I can tell, Osama bin Laden was killed legally.
That’s already true though. Anyone can kill anyone. It just costs the killer their freedom or their life.
That’s a risk we’ve always lived with.
Someone, maybe, a fair point. It will probably happen at work if at all given the boring, “helper” life I lead.
But not this guy. That’s the salient point.
You mean someone like Brian Thompson?
You mean Brian Robert Thompson?
It’s a long standing tradition to refer to serial killers by their full name. Think John Wayne Gacy. It seems appropriate here.
I would say that if you find this particular killer’s motives personally threatening, you should probably resign from your day job and move into your bunker.
I see you getting downvoted but a lot of doctors get death threats too, and while everyone seems to have a horror story about a doctor they didn’t like, I’m pretty sure most are the scapegoats of a broken system. So yeah, while Luigi’s target was well-chosen, I don’t trust every vigilante to be as smart.
a lot of doctors get death threats too
I gotta wonder at the folks who have bombed (or threatened to bomb) abortion clinics and been lionized by pro-Life advocates. Even granted clemency by ultra-right wing Republican governors.
None of them seem particularly enthusiastic about this slaying, though.
So yeah, while Luigi’s target was well-chosen, I don’t trust every vigilante to be as smart.
The starkest comparison I’ve seen is Daniel Perry - who strangled a man to death on the subway - getting box seats with the President/VP and a full throated cheer from folks on the right.
Meanwhile, Luigi has enormous mainstream appeal, but enjoys virtually no positive coverage among liberals on the left.
The division is stark. It’s very obvious that vigilantism is encouraged by the state when it targets certain people. CEOs just aren’t on the approved list.
That’s why I think we should have a crowd funding campaign to build a big bronze statue of the guy. You know, those aren’t as expensive as you might think. Some searching suggests they can be built for $25k-250k. That seems well within the range of a crowd funding campaign. And unlike copy cat attacks or making death threats, there’s nothing illegal about building a statue to someone. At the same time, imagine what a message it would send if 100,000 people each gave a few dollars to build a statue to Luigi.
As far as location, I can think of two. One would be as close to the shooting site as possible. The other? On a main road outside of United Healthcare’s headquarters in Minnesota. I want ever UHC employee to have to drive past a big statue of Luigi as they go into work each day. A durable reminder of just what we think of them.
And if some vandals destroy the statue? We’ll build it again, but even BIGGER.
Have you killed thousands of people through insurance denials to make a quick buck? No?
Then you’re fine.
You watch yourself on that slippery slope now.
Yes, exactly. I don’t think there is anyone in the world who knows me and believes that I, specifically, deserve to be killed. I think almost every person feels the same way. The rare exception being someone who has intentionally profoundly harmed or killed people.
Having a wife and kids is not a free pass, and is no ethical shield. Fight me. Little Jimmy can cry about it in his nepo baby Ferrari.
The CEO had kids that’s the collateral damage.
Given his falling out with his ex-wife and penchant for alcoholism, they’re arguably better off without him, assuming he wasn’t already a deadbeat dad.
As for sanity, gun arguments aside, the manifesto isn’t unhinged.
Just curious, what do you mean by “gun arguments aside”?
I’m a gun owner. There is a subset of people who think that alone makes you unhinged as a human being.
Luigi is just crazy enough to do what he did (allegedly). Probably not even a gun owner beyond an engineer guy makes this tool/thing on his printer and then learns how to become proficient using that tool/thing. I don’t think Luigi was LARPing training exercises with an AK, with friends, in the northern MI woods. I think he probably approached it the same way the rest of us would approach learning Linux for our next PC build.
I see, thanks for the clarification! I thought you were referring to the actual manifesto, and I was going to point out that the supposed real one didn’t mention guns at all, but if I recall correctly the fake one did. So never mind me.
Shit, now I’m wondering. I’m talking about the pseudo apologetic one that talks about printing the gun. Not being the best person to decide this, etc.
Oh, I think that’s the real one. Really short, only mentions CAD instead of actually printing the gun, and refers to Moore who can explain things better.
On that note, Moores reaction is interesting.
For sure, I thought the same thing.
I mean could also go out like the guy who everyone would remember, who burned himself for some cause and everyone just forgot about him. Man, what a thing
What do you mean trump is a CEO?
Hopefully he’s the first of hundreds.
DDD
DDD
444
Out of curiosity I looked up “444” and there’s a bunch of links saying it means a guardian angel. Appropriate?
It sounds like what you’re reading is an “angle number.” I’m not sure if that’s what’s referenced above.
4 is avoided in Chinese and Japanese. Although contextually its not too far off the mark in this case.
in JP, 4 sounds like ‘shi’, meaning death. 43 sounds like the word for ‘stillbirth’. (‘shi’ also means particle, or also emoticon) In China, 4 = ‘death’, 14 = ‘must die’, 24 = ‘easy to die’
Yes, but for reasons I don’t remember at the moment, “444” is considered joyful laughter, not danger. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
So we have guardian angel, “death”, and “joyful laughter” associated with 444, that all fits.
You ever have a boil lanced?
I’m from Australia and I’m quite obsessed with this, so it’s a pretty global feeling.
I think for those of us who have universal healthcare, it still has the David vs Goliath appeal.
Am from Germany. I want them to know this is what happens if they ever take our health care away. Pry it from my cold dead hands and all that. Luigi is a hero!
I’m not from Australia, but every Australian I’ve ever interacted with has been good people.
…so I don’t think your username is apt.
You can be a dumbass and a good person! Cheers for the compliment, but it’s a pretty apt description of me a lot of the time lol.
id rather people focus on the lessons learned.
as long as this puts fear back into the burgeoise i aint complaining too much though.
The only thing left is for some bootlicker to wack him in jail and claim it’s suicide, and Luigi will be more famous than Harambe.
I’d argue that he already is. It would just elevate him from legend to marter.
Is this how the bell riots start? I hope so, I’m tired of waiting.
Because he’s done more to fix our healthcare system than any politician.
We need more Luigis for some more fixing.
I wouldn’t say fixed as things are the same way as they are, but reminded us how every day we are fucked by oligarchs.
This is a weird time as we just elected them, just look how many billionaires are in trump’s cabinet picks.
I mean, Anthem did back down from that stupid policy about time limit anesthesia
as we just elected them
That’s because the system is rigged. We can only ever choose between one rich person and another.
You can’t compare Harris and Trump in that regard whatsoever
thats one of the main regards in which they can be compared as similar
Similar in the sense that one has an estimated net worth of three hundred times as much as the other.
they are both rich as fuck and both help their billionaire friends scam people out of their insurance money.
Both are equally in the realm of “rich” when compared to people living paycheck to paycheck.
To fix is not the same thing as fixed. He’s done more towards fixing the problem. This said, it’s very important to reiterate, as you have, that nearly NOTHING hss still been accomplished.
He can fix us.
