- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
Summary
President Joe Biden commuted the sentences of 37 federal death row inmates to life without parole, sparing all but three convicted of high-profile mass killings.
Biden framed the decision as a moral stance against federal executions, citing his legal background and belief in the dignity of human life.
Donald Trump criticized the move as senseless, vowing to reinstate the death penalty.
Reactions were mixed: some victims’ families condemned Biden, while others supported his decision. Human rights groups praised it as a significant step against capital punishment.
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I can’t help but wonder if this is an assignment to “clear the wait list” for if/when Mangione gets convicted? I don’t quite understand the system but it seems many people on death row spend so many years waiting for the bureaucratic processes to complete before their lives are taken.
The processes that need to complete have very little to do with other death row inmates, so this doesn’t particularly make much sense.
Death penalty cases ostensibly get the most “due process”, as you would expect, and the time is spent in appeals etc. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a barbaric system, we handle it terribly, and I’d say we routinely execute innocent people. But I can’t think of any way this clemency will help them kill Mangione much more quickly.
Thank you for educating a non-American
It’s not a FIFO waiting list.
I know of onlt one western country with death penalty: Belarus. And I’m pretty sure as soon as potato dictator dies, it will be abolished.
Provided that microdick Vlad doesn’t pull a Ukraine on the country for trying to have democracy, and entering the EU and NATO
Biden: I believe in the dignity of human life, except those three guys. I mean, come on man. I’m just being honest, those guys suck. I respect human life, but them? Ho-wha-ya, I-I, they suck. As your senator, I have made this decision, and Kamala stands by it.
Trump: You know, Biden, Joe Bye-den, Sleepy Joe as I call him. Many other call him Sleepy Joe, very smart people. Kamalala lost, I won. Really, America won, America will be greater under my Administration. We would have been safer too, but Old Sleepy Joe, as I call him, decided he would rather have violent inmates live instead of saving the taxpayers millions of dollars and stop giving them socialized medicine and socialized housing, he wants more of that. You know, he wants to spend our country into poverty while letting millions of illegals, many of whom are criminals, just like those 37 terrible people, and the three Joe loved so much to spare, Hunter Biden, and of course the media filled with liars and terrible nasty people. He wants to ruin America every last second he has. But don’t worry, there will be executions, many more, some would say too many, but I disagree. I spoke with experts in executions, very smart men, some women, if you could believe that, and they told me that we could execute many times more people than any president in history. I asked them how we could do that, how would that be possible, they told me about the concept for a plan to execute millions. I asked them, “millions?”, they told me “Easily”. Those very smart experts said we could easily execute millions, and I believe them. So we are going to make America great again and Sleepy Joe won’t be able to do anything about that come January, when my administration, the best Administration, some will say it will be the best Administration ever, takes control and implements a comprehensive plan to deal with the boarder crisis and make America great again.
We could have had Bernie…
If he’d won a primary, sure. But he didn’t. Sanders still had a massive impact despite his “supporters” attacking his party and by extension him. Because they don’t understand how politics work. This isn’t an endorsement of how politics currently work. Just pointing out that you can’t change how it works without understanding how it works in the first place. Something which Sanders knew very well. But his supporters have no concept of. Just being pissy and angry in his name working against him. But not at his request.
lol. I can’t tell if this is an amazing use of ChatGPT or what; but you’ve got trump’s voice down pat. It is scary that that it feels so dead on.
I started reading and then stopped to Google to make sure it wasn’t real. 🤣🤣
I despise the prevalent use of LLM. That is all off the dome.
When you hear the acts of each, you won’t believe that he did this. Makes no sense. Relatives and friends are further devastated. They can’t believe this is happening.
That’s because like Trump, those people don’t understand justice, they only understand revenge. Trump thinks literally everyone is a horrendous person who wants to wantonly murder others just like him. Control over whether someone lives or dies is the ultimate control, and the one Trump craves most. It’s super clear why this is so upsetting to him, he got his favorite type of domination and control taken away. His toys.
Remember that Trump said that “Relatives and friends are further devastated. They can’t believe this is happening.” Without source, and can be dismissed as something he made up on the spot. The families of the victims are a mixture of reactions some are in support some opposed and some can’t be found for comment.
Justice is a feeling. It’s not a factual thing. You can’t scientifically deduce whether justice has been served or not in a specific case.
Some people think eye for an eye is justice, some have other ideas of what justice is.
That’s why some people don’t get control over what happens to the convicted. We do know our justice system isnt perfect and makes more mastakes than what even the most rational person would find unacceptable. There is no going back once the state murders someone. And unless we have equal punishment for whomever caused a innocent person to be executed by the state. It should be outlawed in all cases.
Some people think the earth is flat - that doesn’t mean it is.
Justice is a pretty nebulous abstract thing, I agree with that, but modern society has a pretty clear understanding that retribution isn’t Justice.
What does flat earth has to do with this? The shape of the earth is NOT an opinion. It’s a provable fact.
Check out restorative justice models. One in Colorado has boasted 95% victim satisfaction and recidivism crashed from 50 down to like 10%. We can use this data to demonstrate what justice models are better, regardless of a definitive definition.
I know those models and am all for them. I’m Scandinavian so I’m not at all for eye for an eye type of justice.
The original comment I was replying to said something along the lines of “these people don’t understand justice”.
I was just pointing out that justice is a feeling more than anything else. You can point out that restorative justice is a better way for society to go and it works better for most individuals too but if someone says that they don’t feel like justice has been served you can’t say they’re wrong.
They just have a different opinion on what justice is.
Yeah, but that’s not profitable
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I agree 100%, but I was never discussing what should be legal or illegal… Obviously any murder should be illegal. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
That doesn’t change my opinion that sometimes murder is needed to affect change and sometimes it’s even the morally right thing to do…
You honestly thought I was advocating for making murder legal?
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I challenge you to find a single person arguing in favor of making murder legal. I’ve never seen or heard anyone do that.
I think it can be needed sometimes throughout history when the inequality between rich and poor becomes too great, that doesn’t mean I think it should be legal…
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Back when slaves were legal it was illegal to kill a slave owner. I understand that and I think that’s how it needed to be. You can’t have laws that killing someone is legal.
On the other hand I don’t morally condemn the slaves that rose up and actually did kill their “owners”.
I absolutely can say something should be illegal but in certain cases I’m cool with it happening.
Exactly this. People with primitive fairy tales telling them what is “justice” should not be setting the rules for anything.
Is trump cryingon social media about how he doesn’t get to kill 37 people on Christmas eve ?
Nice move by sleepy joe i guess
Santa told him he was getting an inmate to put to death in exchange for every single one of his felonies. Sorry I mean Satan told him.
Anyway he’s pissed that he got coal instead.
Yes, but both sides.
“The economy!”
-People who spent $41 billion three weeks later.
Well, Kamala had that laugh, so…
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Honestly I’m legitimately surprised he didn’t pardon him and give him a freaking medal, then bring Rittenhouse in so he and Roof can argue about whether it’s more redpilled to kill Pro BLM white protesters for being “race traitors” or actual black people for… being black people.
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Neither Orwell nor Bradbury nor Vonnegut could have come up with anything so bizarre and upside down as to have a complete criminal and felon pretend that he cares about law and order.
Pretty clear donvict knows his qon “pro-life” fanbase is bloodthirsty, and they demand sacrifices.
Yea, this group largely believes an execution sends them to hell sooner to suffer more. As someone who isn’t religious, I’d rather they waste away in jail, as that is much more a punishment than a quick death.
Prison should be rehabilatative, not punitive
Prison is an sentence, thus a form of punishment, as well as a rehabilitation procedure, as well as mean of protection of the public.
Death sentence on the other hand, is a moronic form of punishment as well as ineffective,because it doesn’t prevent the crimes themselves
Prison is an sentence, thus a form of punishment, as well as a rehabilitation procedure, as well as mean of protection of the public.
Not in the United States, it isn’t. The system isn’t designed to rehabilitate offenders; it’s designed to encourage recidivism:
- Background and criminal record checks for jobs outside of high security or confidentiality fields.
- Background check for renting housing post release.
- Anti-homelessness and loitering laws.
- In some states where it hasn’t yet been banned, criminals may have to pay back the prison as part of parole conditions.
But, why would any civilized country allow that to happen? Because the 13th amendment has an exemption for criminals serving their punishment. Prisons can use inmates for mass labor and contracting while paying them a fraction of the value they are producing, generating profit.
AI slop image
It’s a photo from the White House photographer from Agence France-Presse. What evidence do you have that it’s AI? That’s a pretty strong accusation against someone whose living comes from photography.
these where what caught my eye:
The blue of the rug seemed to be leaking into the chair. Biden almost has a double leg or it’s out of alignment. And his hair seems to merge with the wallpaper.
And strong accusation? Bruh we live in an era where AI slop is basically the norm. Expect people to assume a very staged looking photo where Trump has the appearance of a shocked baby and Biden looks like the good humor ice cream man to raise hackles. And it’s a bummer that their job is under threat, but that doesn’t mean I’ll lower my guard against AI slop.
- Reflection in the varnish
- That’s his crotch
- Hair same color in that light
Sorry, you don’t understand lighting and are not qualified to make this judgement. This image was taken by Saul Loeb, photographer for Agence France-Presse based in Washington, DC. The source is in the article, 2 minutes of research and you can find the source with other pictures of the same event.
Here’s are the photos: https://www.instagram.com/saulloeb/p/DCUdmOiv2v9/?hl=en&img_index=4
It’s worth rejecting an occasionally not AI generated image in favor of a higher pass filter.
Are you on drugs?
Being on your guard against AI doesn’t mean jumping at literal shadows. If you’re going to accuse specific people of misrepresentation/ fraud (it would be really bad if a photojournalist assigned to the White House was using AI photos!) you should at least run it through one of the many AI detectors first to see if any of them show it as likely AI. They’re not 100% foolproof, but if they all return very low likelihood of AI then it’s probably not.
No, I won’t be doing those things, and it would be foolish to take the approach you’ve outlined. Far better to set your pass filter higher and simply accept that you’ll have some false positives that where rejected when they shouldn’t have been.
There were horses employed in the millions before internal combustion engines, and it sucks that in this case photojournalism is being replaced with something far worse. However, in a greed economy this seems the way of things, and no amount of effort on my part is going to stop that from happening. So I’ll set my filter a touch higher and sometimes reject somethings for being AI when there not. The consequences of being wrong in that scenario are minimal and far outweigh the cost of being wrong in the other direction.
One of the reasons AI is bad is because of the effect it has on how people perceive reality. Like you deciding that a real photo of Biden and Trump is actually fake, and deciding that it would be stupid to investigate whether the picture is real.
If it’s the AI detector part you object to, it’s simple enough to google the source name and reverse image search the photo.
If you literally do not care whether what you say is true or not and don’t care to find evidence on whether it is then I can’t do anything about that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s not a matter of it being fake or real, it’s that we’ve already passed the threshold where it’s not remotely worth the time to figure out: you are on the wrong side of the value proposition as it relates to time. 4 years ago it was preposterously easy to detect AI slop. Now? Now not so much. It’s 10x easier to make and 10x easier to detect, and seems to have been doubling in difficulty about every 6-8 months. Simple enough to"just Google and do a bunch of research to confirm something is or isn’t AI garbo"? No, that’s what an idiot would do. Or what someone who either a) doesn’t value their time, or b) their time has no value.
It’s not worth the effort whatsoever. Simply rejecting at a higher rate is a much better strategy. Sometimes you’ll have false positives, but such is life. It is far less costly and has the same if not better outcomes.
Good. The more he cries the better
While I’m overall glad about this, leaving 3 unpardoned inmates really corrupts the “moral stance against federal executions” justification and makes it seem like he is in favor of capital punishment but only for people he thinks deserve it. It also makes it seem like he believes it’s his decision to decide who gets to live and that rubs me the wrong way.
Devil’s advocate: do the last 3 deserve it? Are they unsafe to other inmates and also not possible candidates for rehabilitation and release to society?
If yes… Welp.
That’s the point of taking a “moral stance against federal executions”, though — nobody deserves it.
Yeah… Most people don’t. Some do.
The only thing that I can come to the conclusion is that two of the three are neo-nazis.
He could be sending a message, and that’s what Trump is actually pissed about.
The Boston bomber I can’t justify with that same line of thinking though.
Executions are barbaric, plus life in prison is far more cruel anyway.
He could be sending a message, and that’s what Trump is actually pissed about.
That actually makes sense.
well, regardless whether he or anyone believes it or not, it quite literally was his decision to make
A world leader like the president is deciding on deaths every single day. You are right to think it’s unsavory, but it certainly isn’t unique to this pardoning.
That may be true but singling out 3 people who are currently harmless and saying “you get to die” feels somehow different.
He probably did that the day before and the day after.
Even the most die-hard anti-death-penalty believer has their limits. It may take Hitler-level atrocities to get there, or maybe even worse. But everyone has their own line in the sand where even they will say “If there was ever a case in favor of the death penalty, this is that case.” That line is in a completely different place for everybody.
It also makes it seem like he believes it’s his decision to decide who gets to live and that rubs me the wrong way.
Since the President has final pardon power, he actually does get to decide who gets to live. It’s a power granted to him by the Constitution.
Even the most die-hard anti-death-penalty believer has their limits.
I’d love a source for this. Personally, I don’t think we should be in the business of killing defenseless people in any context.
Why do you need a source for a fundamental part of human nature? subjectivity
Google/Bing/DDG/Kagi the word…
That means the opposite of what you’re arguing for though
How does it? Subjectivity is defined by the same things that cause a variance in values and differences in weights placed on problems of others.
Which is exactly what I’m talking about. Humans are complex we all have differing values.
Right, so some might have an absolute no-killing value.
Because people like to make claims about human nature that simply aren’t generally true. Rather than recognizing the way complex circumstances can shape human feelings and behaviors, I frequently see people break it down into simple platitudes like “humans are lazy, greedy, etc”, rather than recognizing complex realities like the way power erodes empathy.
Isn’t that my precise point but more words?
Humans are complex. Different people will have different values and we’ll have different lines. This is fundamental to the individualistic nature of people.
Asking for a source on something ingrained in our everyday lives is almost a bad faith statement. That’s like asking for a source on every piece of casual conversation just to shut it down.
Do you really need a source that tells you that different people have different values and weigh the problems around them differently?
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I think you’re taking some vague statements and trying to proclaim a universal scientific truth out of it.
“Even the most die-hard anti-death-penalty believer has their limits.”
I’d love a source for this.
fundamental part of human nature. Subjective: (Based on a given person’s experience, understanding, and feelings; personal or individual.
(you mean, like the complete opposite of your statements can also be true?!)
This is fundamental to the individualistic nature of people. Asking for a source on something ingrained in our everyday lives is almost a bad faith statement
So we have fundamental, ingrained states that you’ve declared to be unsourceable (scientifically) and is such a part of us that even bringing it up sounds like bad faith. Real “trust me bro, this is how it is” vibes with no clarity or justification.
What if they raped a baby to death right in front of you?
Then I’d be a witness and therefore not qualified to pass judgement in their case. Conflict of interest.
Man fuck you, you are guilty as well. That’s an instant removal from society. You might want to get therapy you are missing a soul.
You’re getting awfully worked up about the hypothetical baby you’re using to justify murder.
Am I? Would you even try to stop it or would you wring your hands and wait for the police to show up?
Yep I’m anti-death penalty, the 3 that didn’t get pardoned should probably just live the rest of their lives in prison. But I’m not going to shed any tears for them.
He didn’t pardon the others, he commuted their sentences to life in prison. Of note, the 3 civilians left are terrorists who committed mass murder and were caught red handed. There are also 4 people on military death row who remain. One is also a mass murdering terrorist; one committed literal treason, attacking his own unit in the middle of the night overseas; one is a serial killer/rapist; and one took three trials over 4 decades to convict of a group murder.
They should probably commute his sentence too…
Yeah sorry that’s what I meant, long day at work. no sympathy for the people on death row, either way they should not be allowed back into normal society.
I have no such limits. Death, as a penalty, is always unjust because humans do not have free will. Every action, every thought, has some biological, or neurochemical, or material basis for it’s happening. Inflicting any form of punishment or suffering on the qualia, the conscious experience of someone, for the illusion of choice we believe to have, is actually just inflicting suffering on innocent beings, because we have no choice.
Now, that’s not too say I’m anti-violence. But I firmly believe that every piece of violence should be evaluated as if it was being done against an innocent person. Things like “guilt” or “they deserve it” should not be taken into the calculation when doing violence at all, only the benefits it has to the rest of society. If you are in the position to levy death as a punishment, I would rather just see them locked up for life.
Death, as a penalty, is always unjust because humans do not have free will.
By this logic, all laws are unjust and humans aren’t responsible for their actions.
humans aren’t responsible for their actions.
Yes! Humans are indeed, not culpable for their actions because we have no free will.
Now, I won’t go into the nuances of laws here, but I do find punishing people for the sake of punishment, or out of some sense of “they deserve it” to be problematic because all humans are innocent.
I understand that and, if you ask me, those 3 guys are pos. My problem is that he said he did it to take a moral stance against death penalty. You can’t do that and go “except for these 3 cases”.
Right, but again…everybody has that point where they say “…except that case”. You and Biden just disagree on where that line is. Even the Pope is eventually going to look at someone who committed some heinous crimes and say “Dude, even the Bible says that shit ain’t cool…”
I’m not sure that’s true. Some people legitimately stop at life in prison and always oppose the death penalty.
I’m confident. Granted, for some people that red line may require atrocities at or above Hitler levels. It may require atrocities that are comically unrealistic. But it’s there. Put up someone who killed a proverbial busload of school children. If that isn’t enough, two. “Yeah, I killed them all, and I raped them first, and I’ll do the same again if I ever escape.”. Someone’s gonna say “Yeah, OK, stick the needle in his arm”, just because they don’t want to take the .000001% chance that he actually does escape.
An extreme example, yes, but I’m sure you get the idea. Everybody’s got a breaking point.
Again, I don’t know if that’s true. People seem to have very strange absolute moral ideas sometimes.
That doesn’t necessarily mean their beliefs are absolute. It just means that the red line needed to shake those believes has yet to be found.
I’m one of those. Capital punishment is obsolete in my opinion, since we no longer need to execute people to ensure that they don’t present danger to the civilized population in the future.
But not everybody is making a statement about morality. He’s purportedly saying “capital punishment is bad and we should get rid of it”. If you make exceptions, all you’re saying is that you’re in favor of keeping it around for really bad people, which is exactly where they are now.
People make exceptions for things they believe in all the time. Religion is a prime example; show me any established religion, and I’ll show you a few dozen beliefs associated with that religion that 99.9% of worshippers conveniently ignore. That doesn’t mean they don’t believe. That just means they have limits.
show me any established religion, and I’ll show you a few dozen beliefs associated with that religion that 99.9% of worshippers conveniently ignore
Zoroastrianism.
Zoroastrianism.
I’d be willing to bet that if you could even find someone practicing the religion, they’re not praying several times a day in a fire temple.
Nope. The most die hard, anti death penalty believer has no limits and literally says “we do not have the right to take anyone’s life, even if they are Hitler. In fact it would be better for society if we got to try to rehabilitate Hitler”.
And I agree with them.People can downvote you but aren’t even thinking it out. Hitler right now is still a projected person for the far-right nazi movement and is brought up constantly. What if he had been imprisoned and actually got mental health care that doesn’t really exist in most prison populations currently (globally that is). If you had a senior Hitler, with life imprisonment, painting fields of flowers with jewish and little blonde/blond kids running around, it would be a totally different outcome in this day and age.
To be possible though the prison system would need completely reworked. In our current system I don’t think it would have the same outcome (since our system has a different purpose than rehabilitate currently). I also think people shouldn’t be able to communicate as effectively with the outside world without extra censorship (that whole no harm to society thing, can still happen if they’re voicing action or calls to violence, happens still currently.).
In theory, the death penalty makes some sense. It’s a right the government reserves for itself (violence) and I think in some contexts it makes sense to be on the table. In practice, it’s more expensive than a life sentence, and it’s a blunt and racist tool to maintain unjust social and state power.
I wish every governor and president commuted 95% of death penalty situations. It’s a major injustice that most executions were carried out, even for those who belief it’s something the government should be doing.
I don’t get it. The death penalty doesn’t seem to deter people from committing heinous crimes. The practice seems more for the families who want closure, but morally we should be above killing unnecessarily. Whether someone is jailed for life in solitary or sentenced to death does not change the fact that they will never be able to harm another member of society.
And don’t get me wrong, if someone kills a loved one I will want them dead, but my emotions should not drive taxpayer funded punishment.
Putting aside some of the practical issues for a moment…
- that legal process makes executions more expensive than a life sentenc
- it’s a tremendous power for governments to have and rife for corruption or making permanent mistakes.
Why should society be obligated to suppord, and securely house people who should never be allowed back into society?
Maybe instead we could put those resources towards restoring the lives of the victims instead of the punishment of the sentenced?
A punitive system leaves the victims out cold where the only solace they can hope for is that the person responsible is punished appropriately.
A better one might provide mental/physical healthcare, social support, and an option for a direct role in the reconciliation process for the victim and their immediate family/household.
I just don’t see how “justice” can be achieved when everyone has paid in and all we get for it is someone locked in a cell or murdered while the people they wronged haven’t seen an ounce of support.
Also, you’re very hardly ever 100% sure someone deserves to die. It’s morally much better to not kill just in case - and there’s been tons of cases where new evidence, like DNA, has exonerated convicted prisoners. You might be keeping someone fed and warm who didn’t deserve it, but personally I’d rather err on the side of humanity.
Like Gandalf said,
“Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”
Biden: Grants clemency indiscriminately for 1,500 people Public: Why did you let the Cash for Kids woman free Biden: Commutes death sentences selectively Public: Who made you judge, jury and executioner?
Biden: Grants clemency indiscriminately for 1,500 people indiscriminately Media: Why did you let the Cash for Kids woman free Biden: Commutes death sentences selectively Media: Who made you judge, jury and executioner?
FIFY… Real people honestly wouldn’t care about any of this if the media wasn’t trying to inspire outrage.
I think it’s the opposite. The public opinion has turned on him and so everything he does is critiqued. It’s nudge on by the media but is also the cycle of celebrities du jour
I kind of wonder if Biden is setting him up to execute Luigi and get on the wrong side of this current populist movement.
The fed has nothing to do with that. He’s being charged by the state of NY.TIL they added on a few federal charges.He is also being charged federally. And that is the capital case.
even if he does get convicted, any execution probably won’t happen in the next four years. death row appeals take a long time.
People forgetting Biden is Catholic, and Catholicism is pretty anti-death penalty.
Yes. Also, pardoning your sex-crazed drug addict son is very Catholic. As is pathological lying (claiming to lose his son in Iraq when he actually died of a glioblastoma in 2015, or claiming to have formed the QUAD when in actuality it was Trump who formed it; the list goes on). Also, sniffing a young girl’s hair on national television is very Catholic (this last one is actually semi-serious).
Joking aside, if you think Biden is acting out of any religious sincerity, you clearly don’t understand much about politicians. They’re all carpet baggers. They’ll say whatever they have to say to get the Christian/Catholic or Jewish vote etc.
Tell that to my Catholic trumper parents.
I know it won’t make a difference to them (who’re the cafeteria Catholics, now?) but it is an official part of the catechism.
