I’m not sure what you expected from a community called “late stage capitalism”
Also I find the mustache very funny
Probably expecting discussions regarding late stage capitalism such as examples and possible countermeasures.
Instead it’s whatever that is. Clickbait.
Gasp! you mean non tankies can be against capitalism too!? /s
It’s a shit post echo chamber for fragile tankies. To hide behind “theory” while ignoring “evidence”. As they circle jerk each other.
I like it because it keeps me up to date on the latest developments of the cyberpunk hellscape we’re turning into. Tankieness doesn’t seem to come into it that much from what I’ve seen, just anti-capitalism.
Or maybe I just don’t pay attention to it, but this post is in negatives so despite your weird framing it certainly doesn’t seem like the community agrees.
I literally criticized capitalism. What they had a problem with is that I criticized Leninism as well. They don’t care about socialism. They only care about ML. And no critique is allowed. No matter it’s validity. It’s definitionally an echo chamber.
What would you call those who don’t recognize the flaws of Leninism. The whole reason it never matched even the man’s own ideological vision. And forcefully defend it right or wrong against any critique. Against their own potential allies. Other socialists like myself. The way the namesake tankies forcefully slaughtered and suppressed all who criticized and pushed back. Against the undemocratic party. What would a better descriptor be…
Or maybe I just don’t pay attention to it, but this post is in negatives so despite your weird framing it certainly doesn’t seem like the community agrees.
Don’t worry, dissenters in the comments were promptly banned by the OP, who runs the comm.
That’s great and all but Eldritch accused it of being a tankie echo chamber when they’re getting mass downvoted
I’ll accuse it, too. Because it is.
They can’t currently block down votes of random people who don’t comment. Up votes and down votes don’t ultimately make an echo chamber. The actions of the moderation do. And they are deleting all dissent of a very specific type. In order to craft their Echo chamber. It’s literally worse than the conservative community on .world.
We’ve butted heads regularly. And I know you identify a bit with them. Which is why you feel this misguided need to defend them. But respectfully how is that not an echo chamber?
Whatever OP wants the community to be, it is clear that it is not. He shared a clownish opinion and it got rightly blasted instead of everyone circle jerking about how smart believing the nonsense made them.
Obviously such behavior only happens in “tankie” communities. You’d never get someone claiming, for example, that all the dissent being voiced is proof that it’s an isolated community with no dissenting voices.
You can be anti capitalist and think Stalin and co are massive cunts.
(Anarchism, and most types of marxists that aren’t okay with genocide)
Are there any leaders that would be positively revered by today’s standards? I kinda like Washington, Lincoln, JFK and T. Roosevelt. Churchill, Obama, Ghandi and Carter. Alexander the great?
They’ve all got their own problems but maybe not irredeemable shitheels
I mean I’m an Anarchist so I tend to not like the concept of “leaders”.
But I respect a couple Green Party british MPs and Marine Tondelier. Also have a generally good view of Sanders and gang, although not without disagreements.
I’m more skeptical of revering past figures though because history is often written by those in power, so they often end up polishing up a lot of these figures. I would respect FDR is he didn’t do Japanese apartheid and let the eugenics movement perform mass sterilisations of disabled people (and segregation and all the fucked up shit happening back then; not that today everything is rosey)
Churchill
I’m generally lenient towards historical figures who were born under a time of different moral standards, but Churchill was a piece of shit by the standards of his own time, and only gets a ‘pass’ because he was important in fighting a worse foe - the fucking Nazis.
Is that AoC with a Hitler mustache? Hasn’t she specifically condemned Nazis and Genocide?
Yes.
But she’s a ‘shitlib’, and thus a genocide supporter. /s
I fucking hate Tankies
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AOC is extremely pro Israel. She still refuses to say Israel is committing genocide.
There’s a faction of liberals who hate AOC the way 13-year-olds call mom a bitch for making them go to the dentist.
I mean there is a faction of liberals that hate AOC, but the person/people who made the meme definitely aren’t liberal.
IMHO the younger one looks like “average guy, not an elite”, which is what I think he’s going for.
She’s critical enough of Israel to piss off your average zionist, but also don’t want to “decolonize” it, which in many tankies’ heads equals with the strawman the far-right has about decolonization.
Idk when I say im left wing I mean this:
I feel like this isn’t a good example if it’s being heavily down voted. Wouldn’t that imply the community has an anti-tankie sentiment on the whole? what am I missing
‘Run by red fash’, the poster is also one of the two mods for the community.
oh yep, there’s the mod icon, I’m just a dumbass thanks lol
It’s actually hilarious that a mod post is that deep in the negatives.
Considering the very concept of “late stage capitalism” is the Marxist Leninist version of the end times, with the revolution being their equivalent of the rapture/the second coming, I would have been surprised if it had been any other way.
Imagine you believe Stalin and Winnie are left
I dont have to. I was 12 at one point too.
If I was a “leftist” mod of an already very left community and a meme I share with that community is about to reach -70 karma I would abandon my account, request asylum on another instance and call myself the digital Viktor Yanukovych lmao
Who’s the guy at the bottom left?
Ibrahim Traoré, a coup leader who took over Burkina Faso, whose government has proposed outlawing homosexuality.
But he’s pro-Russia, therefore, Good.
Thanks.
Anyone crying about nato and specifically citing the ukrainian azov battalion. Is almost certainly a Russian Z Nazi or supporter of them. It’s an easy way to identify them since it’s an oddly specific combonation of groups to hate.
And for the record. Azov never would have existed if russia didn’t start a war against Ukraine in 2014… eat me
Azov never would have existed if russia didn’t start a war against Ukraine in 2014… eat me
OK. But nobody invoking them now is all that concerned with that.
Personally I got a kick out of Gravel Institute posting a video about Nazis in the Ukraine military talking about Azov shortly before Russia attacked in 2022, and then pulling it down shortly afterward because more or less their exact point was now considered to be Russian far right propaganda. Just such a beautiful example of how things like that can change.
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Take your meds, man.
Reads like a wall writing in a lunatic asylum.
I’ve always said extreme ideologization is equivalent to a psychotic disorder. It’d be quite fascinating to study if not for the extreme danger it entails for all of us. Vatniks included.
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You’re telling people they need to be cleansed.
I’m referring to you and your need to get some help. Sooner rather than later. Political ideologization is as much a product of individual psychology as it is a product of surroundings.
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Your username suits you. Suits the world, I guess.
No country on earth resembles nazi Germany more than the russian federation. They are objectively a fascist. Racist. Imperialist warmongering mob state.
The fact that you take the fascists at their word when they simply claim they’re against nazis… while displaying direct comparison Everything they say and do. Just proves you sympathize with them and aren’t worth talking to about this topic
Pro tip. Russia considers “nazis” to be anything that opposes Russia. End of story
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Ask them how the Uyghurs in China are doing.
NOOOOOOO THATS FAKE NEWS THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN CONFIRMED REPORTS OF ANYTHING SOMETHING SOMETHING THEY’RE ALL HAPPY AND THE ONES WHO DIED ALL DESERVED IT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Ummm actually if you look at this CCP-approved news source, they say it’s logistically impossible to commit a genocide against that many people without anyone noticing soooo
Just think of all those organs not being harvested!
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Their answer from my last interaction:
-western propaganda
-uyghurs themselves love it
-not forced labour but a vocational school the government put these people under
-amnesty and UN is lying and unreliable
-only reliable source is the blogpost they linked
-it’s all anti terrorism effort
-western propaganda
The Uyghur part I read was they deserve it because it is mostly criminals.
That just happens when you criminalize being a minority.
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Specific criminals were arrested. A lot of investment from Israeli government in education and job creation. Genocide is a political declaration devoid of factual bases.
Same story, different genocide.
Oh wait. There is a difference. Hardly anyone denies genocide in Gaza despite tankies drumming out libtards deny it meme like there is no tomorrow.
Western propaganda media bends itself backwards reporting the genocide as no Israeli fault/nothing much is going on but it is baaaad. Protests in the streets, actual people are outraged.
People UNDERSTAND they are being lied to.
Yet CCP shits out one propaganda piece on Uyghur and tankies will do mental Olimpics to forgo ANY and ALL evidence to the contrary.
Because anti-western. Therefore no genocide.
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#DISGUSTING
The more consistent take I see simply poses the ugyur genocide falls under a similar definition that includes ongoing genocide of black americans, which tends to meet a lot of resistance.
But much more than that: what I see is issue being taken (usually at the media), with comparing Xinjiang to something like Gaza, while often also denying Israel is committing a genocide.
Or the genocide of indigenous peoples in North America, which alsi receives “resistance”, of a somewhat apopleptic fashion.
Don’t worry bro, China is only treating them as bad as the US treats black people.
It’s such odd double speak. Is China treating them terribly or are you saying that Black Americans are doing just fine?
When I brought it up he just said “devoid of context” and stopped replying.
Grains of truth in each point.
Which is a give away sign of anti-western propaganda. China, russia and the likes.
Don’t tell me facts
Their answer is always “something-something western propaganda have you ever seen the camps first-hand you’re swallowing propaganda they’re not real CCP is going to solve global warming with fusion energy”
I got banned from some community or other for laughing at that last part. Not a joke, apparently.
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Please dont get me wrong here, I’m not defending the CCPs treatment of the Ulghurs, at all, and it does fit the broad definition of genocide, but it is not the same as the Holocaust death camps.
The camps in China are much more akin to the “Indian schools” that the US sent native Americans to in an attempt to get them to forget their culture and “civilize” them. Also, maybe a bit of the Japanese interment camp experience from the US in WWII.
It’s still disgusting and needs to be called out, don’t get me wrong, but its not quite the same as literal death camps, or the ongoing genocide in Gaza.
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You most definitely have not seen the camps firsthand.
lol see? Just as I said
Lol on the left two genociders, one man who i actually respect(tried to fix all the shit going on in the world, even if i dont think its the right solution, he at least tried) and one guy who i dont even know. And on the right which is aimed at people like me. Im not a democrat and i think theyre shit(tho im european and would probably vote for them because you dont even have a choice in murica), im sceptic of the new syrian leadership(but hopeful), fuck israel and nato is just free military for us but i think we should invest more into it because the us is a horrible ally as we can see in ukraine. Idk bout the rest. So yeah complete bullshit from tankies as usual.
Saying “redfash” is such an annoying way to let everyone know you’ve never read a book in your life.
You sound triggered to an extreme degree.
Stay scratched
I don’t know why it’s controversial that palingenetic ultranationalists peddling totalitarian systems who claim to be socialists and indulge in copious amounts of claimed leftist theory and left-wing aesthetics are both ‘red’ and ‘fascist’.
Read some Mussolini and read some Marx and then explain to me how those two ideologies are in any way similar. Also read some history about how libs always enable fascism by trying to posit the exact point your making right now. It’s literally how Germany rose to fascism. They were not labeling themselves as reds or communists. They were labeling themselves as socialists.
Read some Mussolini and read some Marx and then explain to me how those two ideologies are in any way similar.
They aren’t. But MLs have very little respect for Marx, whatever their claims, and eagerly contradict even the most basic Marxist assertions at every turn, save for anything critical of the bourgeois. ‘Red fash’ does not mean ‘All reds are fascists’, it means ‘Fascists who use red aesthetics’ - like, say… someone who thinks Xi and Stalin are good left models, as in the screenshot put in the OP.
Also read some history about how libs always enable fascism by trying to posit the exact point your making right now. It’s literally how Germany rose to fascism. They were not labeling themselves as reds or communists. They were labeling themselves as socialists.
What are you even trying to say here.
Xi and Stalin are not good models. We can agree on this. But to label them as fascists is to totally misunderstand what the word fascism means.
As to your second point, I really don’t know how to spell it out more plainly. But I’ll try. You said that fascists labelling themselves as communists have been successful in installing fascist regimes. This is patently false, and I used the most famous example of that to make my point.
According to Mussolini, fascism is the merger of state and corporations. Sounds like state capitalism to me.
Xi and Stalin are not good models. We can agree on this. But to label them as fascists is to totally misunderstand what the word fascism means.
Palingenetic ultranationalism under totalitarian regimes that hit most of the 14 points of Umberto Eco’s ur-fascism.
What more do you want? I can quote the Fascist Manifesto if you like too, and demonstrate how it applies to Stalin and Xi, even though the Manifesto itself is only marginally coherent.
As to your second point, I really don’t know how to spell it out more plainly. But I’ll try. You said that fascists labelling themselves as communists have been successful in installing fascist regimes. This is patently false,
You think it’s false because you deny that the Stalinist regime was fascist.
and I used the most famous example of that to make my point.
I still don’t know what point you think you’re making.
When you ask the People’s Front of Judea who they hate worse, the Romans or the Judean People’s Front.
SPLITTERS!
Same as on reddit.
I lived happily oblivious of the existence of tankies until I randomly said I was voting for a democratic politician in r/latestagecapitalism.
Yeah, the fact that they’re all so anti-voting and/or “both sides”-y is why I think the root of most of the tankies’ thinking is Chinese propaganda. Like, just because you vote for someone doesn’t mean you are 100% aligned with everything they say. Or even 50% of it. Just means you’re more aligned with them than the other option. The only people who could possibly benefit from such a stupid mode of thought are part of authoritarian governments.
I wouldn’t even say it’s propaganda. It’s bad-faith. They find whatever reasons they can to not participate in the hopes that the system will get worse, and this will swing a magic political pendulum to the opposite side of socialist utopia.
The missing part is that magic political pendulum = “People suffer more and more until it boils over in a violent revolution with much death on all sides and The Party™ installs themselves as leaders of everything, which then will ‘dissolve itself’ ‘one day’ ‘when they’re no longer necessary.’”
Which might be even less likely to happen than if it was magic, tbf.
I would honestly be less upset if revolutions at least actually happened like that.
But they don’t.
People can suffer nearly infinitely (see: North Korea). It is when people are poised to strike that revolution happens. The French Revolution did not happen any of the innumerable times France had experienced hunger and hardship before; it happened when the bougie reps of the Third Estate were put in a position of power by the circumstances presented. The February Russian Revolution did not happen at the height of serfdom or mass starvation; it happened when the forces of repression were weakened by outside distractions. The Iranian Revolution, the Carnation Revolution, the Irish War of Independence… all originating in states which had experienced far greater suffering in the past under those selfsame regimes.
Revolutions happen when people think they can win, not when suffering hits a certain threshold. And very often, people think they can win precisely because of hard-fought reforms putting them in a better position to strike.
Yeah idk, from hearing what they they don’t really seem super concerned about all that, they seem like regular old accelerationists without a solid plan (beyond cry online) with some red dye to me.
Yeah, they don’t actually have any understanding of how events of any sort occur, it would seem.
Which is why to me it seems a bit of astroturfing is plugged in. They dont have ideas or solutions only blame and divisiveness. A soundbite that small groups might latch onto. Start talking about unity of the plebs and they’ll get angry
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
More like swing to “communist” authoritarian government. We can only hope that anyone who doesn’t like the new state can be reducated in reducation camps. If not they will have to be killed.
‘Electoralism’ is one of the things you’re not supposed to do in their book
Had to re-read that one a few times I first read it
Yep. I nearly disagree as much with a democrat as a republican.
But pragmatically, I prefer that trans people and disabled people aren’t literally eradicated, and whether 1% or 50% of the population turn out, the election still stands so I’ll be voting.
That doesn’t mean I don’t do other things in a more revolutionary spirit, but I think it’s dumb not to vote.
But pragmatically, I prefer that trans people and disabled people aren’t literally eradicated
OH, so you think that trans and disabled folk should be SPECIAL and EXCLUDED from genocide while other people are being genocided elsewhere??? Typical shitlib
/s
