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Ho hum. TikTok ain’t going anywhere.
It will be banned for a short while, long enough for Trump to enforce sale to Meta in exchange for their absolute hard turn top to bottom in everything they do to help spread misinformation and keep the plebs angry.
That assumes ByteDance and TikTok approve a sale… They’ve been very adamant they will not.
As if any of the other social media networks aren’t doing the same shit. I’d rather have China spy on me than an American company. They can’t use my data to fuck me over.
I mean, yeah they can. Anyone with data on you could fuck you over. In fact, the more data, the easier to fuck you over.
China cannot put me in jail. The US can.
Maybe I should have worded it differently. They’re far less likely to fuck me over. I have nothing the Chinese government wants.
Nah they want your money and attention same as the Americans
I will say that being from Latin america I am fundamentally less scared of China than I am scared of the US. The US took my country’s future from us twice, both times in living memory, and one I was already around for.
While the worst thing China has done here is uhhh
Buy land to open a factory in our sovereign soil and illegally mistreat workers in that factory.
Really not anywhere near the same level as backing two far right coups.
Yeah, only AMIERICAN companies can spy on our citizens and flood them with propaganda!
USA! USA! USA!
This is my problem with it.
Social media, the big ones that everyone uses, are a blight on society. They are worse than cancer and they need regulation and control.
Really, the bigger problem is the monetization of data, and the ever-deeper orificices that they try to dig into for said data.
But I digress.
At the same time, they are private industries running a public (ish) forum.
Historically, we’d expect the forum owners to be responsible about the content they are presenting, and ensure that it doesn’t reflect poorly on them or their community.
In other words…you wouldn’t see the grocer keeping hate speech up on his community board…but if you did, I’m sure a lot of people would choose a different grocer.
The social media giants are taking a page right out of the book of Mormon, and gotten itself so engrained into modern society that trying to separate yourself from it will, at some level, result in social exile. That’s bad.
Now theres a company backed by an increasingly adversarial nation-state that is in charge of a shit ton of that data. That’s bad.
There’s a lot of bad. Ultimately, it’s a highly nuanced issue.
Of course it’s more worrying to the American government when it’s a foreign government spying on their citizens. It’s not really a double standard but rather just sensible from the gov’s pov.
Can someone explain to me how it’s worse for a foreign government to have your information than your own government having that same information? Your own government is far more likely to actually be able to do something about you.
Lol @ america being the only non-chinese country in the world
Disinformation.
TikTok has been under control of the State Dept for years, since TikTok transferred custody of US servers to Oracle. The ban is to force a sale to a US competitor, and decrease transparency on censorship activities, especially regarding Palestine and pro-communism material.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/tiktok-chinese-trojan-horse-run-by-state-department-officials/284353/
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What? Wechat is a thing here? I have literally never heard about Wechat like anywhere, pretty sure more people know about Lemmy in the US than Wechat lmao
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What the hell is WeChat? Did that WeWork guy start a social media service?
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app only, no website
Oh fuck this future! Anyways, thanks for the information.
It wasn’t. There’s zero proof of this currently.
The app is banned because congress can’t control. They want you using the platforms where you can’t become class or politically aware.
I might be killed, but seeing the comments i feel like lemmy is getting too into the zone of umm like judging the action based on the person instead of judging the action/statement itself, yeah the US gov is a piece of shit, and also they probably don’t have the peoples best interest in mind, but the act of banning tiktok, according to me, is a right move, i can see nd myself have felt the humongous mental impact it has on teens (like me) basically killing their attention span, and making them feel like they need to pick up their phone, heck kids cant read 10pages from their physics book, infact reading a page only thoroughly is a tough task for most of them, and i m not talking abt a few select cases, i can see this in 95% of kids (this is anecdotal tho), ever since i stopped using reels/tiktoks/shorts, i can feel my mind improving
Also the whole slew of misinformation and propaganda tiktok is, is another issue
Again I agree with ppl that the US doesn’t hv the ppls best interest, but i do feel this might help atleast some ppl break their addiction, so many I know are aware they r addicted but can’t stop, banning the app altogether might help
Tiktok got banned not for peddling “chinese propaganda” but instead not peddling the US one.
All the major tech companies in the US take measures to ensure content deemed unworthy by the government never become mainstream or viral.
This is done under the pretense of stopping “hate speech” or “terroristic propaganda” but often include things like pro-palestinian content or class struggle content (like luigi mangione stuff).
Tiktok was bold enough to not do that by default, cuz they wanted someone to ask them to do this and then it would become a huge scandal about how the US suppresses free speech. And US gov don’t want to do that for this exact reason as well. So they decided to ban it.
Remember talks for this “law” were initiated when all of a sudden tiktok became a host for pro-palestinian voices. We should ask ourselves, how is it that 60% of americans want the government to stop arms sales to israel but this 60% never shows up on the big social media platforms. But on other platforms like here in lemmy and tiktok, pro-palestinians is the majority.
For further reading, listen to employees fired from big US tech companies for voicing their concerns over the palestine issue, or read Meta’s new terms and conditions specially the section on “dangerous organizations and individuals”.
Thank god for bold platforms like TikTok that refuse to push US propaganda. Really smart of them to not censor valuable information as a way of fooling the US government into exposing its evil censorship ways. TikTok’s fate in the US was never a topic before the current wave of pro-Palestinian activism started. It certainly wasn’t one of Trump’s main talking points ten years ago. Good thing he changed his mind after getting his hands on
some Chinese moneylucrative investmenet from Chinese citizens that are not at all connected to Tencent.None of this discourse on combatting foreign information manipulation started over a decade ago, its all about censoring pro-Palestine voices here and now. TikTok and China in general are known for their calm, collected attitudes toward Muslims. They certainly would never weaponize a contentious topic every which way imaginable in pursuit of financial and geopolitical goals. We need more of these open and bold platforms.
I wasn’t sure this was an actual a tankie rant or sarcasm until the
TikTok and China in general are known for their calm, collected attitudes toward Muslims
Yuppp. Newsflash, Chinese government is committing a genocide against the Uighur peoples
Its just another troll. You give them labels like tankie but they are just trolls.
Know what the other “tell” is? They write a wall of text. Big thick paragraphs. It’s a thing, start looking for it.
Who? People with a lot to say?
& when you call them out they want to lead you down this endless response chain. You wonder if they get bonuses for it
Oh yeah, nothing like hallucinating that everyone you talk to is an enemy, and when they complain, well that just proves it.
No, that’s neurodivergence.
I feel seen. LOL
I feel like with all the posts I ramble on (and TRY to pare down) in Lemmy, I could just have easily had a somewhat healthy blog going by now…that nobody would read because it wasn’t on Medium or some other monolith. XD
They track the location of people in the US and gather large amounts of data. They didn’t get banned for refusing to spread US propaganda.
That’s what they’re telling you, and since when are they telling the truth?
I think aliens did it.
Facebook does the same tracking and data harvesting. Is Facebook up to be banned? It isn’t the tracking and data harvesting.
Person 1: I think it’s because the tracking and data harvesting
Person 2: that’s an obvious lie (see above)
You: I think aliens did it
Shut up alien
False dichotomy. They could’ve been banned on legitimate pretenses AND other reasons threatening power.
If they were legitimately only banned for “tracking the location in the US and gathering large amounts of data”, then just about every single social media service would be under investigation for the same reason. But do we currently see that happening?
Of all the social media popular in the US, only one of them is doing that tracking and is under the thumb of a foreign adversary. That is specifically the line drawn in the law. I’m actually curious if WeChat shouldn’t fall under it too?
If they were legitimately only banned for “tracking the location in the US and gathering large amounts of data”, then just about every single social media service would be under investigation for the same reason.
We aren’t talking about TikTok simply gathering the information though, are we?
But yes, absolutely. Let’s do it. And we know that: just because the other companies aren’t being investigated/regulated in the same way, does not mean that it shouldn’t happen at all. That’s not how it works.
Also, you are making a fallacious argument yourself… If we were talking about banning US social media sites in China, then the comparison holds (and even then, it’s not 1:1 given the political structure of the CCP vs. that of the US). Otherwise, TikTok is clearly unique among them in that the Chinese Government ostensibly has access to any and all information that is being collected.
There is a reason China made their own version Facebook. Because they don’t want us to have all that information on their citizens.
I thought it was because they wanted to be in charge of what was censored and what wasn’t and was left able to be seen and shared amongst users.
Also, what Chinese Facebook? Xiaohong Shu or DaZhong DianPing are probably closest… But still way off.
They’re owned by a Chinese company so the Chinese govt has this information. I’m not saying it’s a good reason to ban it, or that there isn’t another secret reason, or that American companies don’t gather the same information. This was the problem all along - China receiving vast amounts of information about Americans. Actually the US was probably worried about China spreading their viewpoints, now that I think more about it. IDK
These are very loose terms. Pretty much every major website saves IP addresses when you create an account (to prevent abuse/spam detection). And you can get location info from the IP address. Hence the first condition would be true for all of those websites.
Next, any website/app that builds a recommendation system will save user interactions to build the “algorithm”. So every social media with an algorithm will fall into this category.
With enough bending of terminology, we might be able to prove that the lemmy also collects user data (although it will be really hard cuz the algo here is based on upvotes and time posted iirc). And “large amount” part is just legal filler words.
As does all the American owned networks. That’s not the reason. Not pushing American propaganda is the reason.
So does facebook, twitter, google, microsoft, and pretty much every mobile app development shop.
hankie hugger, yall ain’t gonna win this one
Not to defend tiktok (to this day I have not ever used it), but if the issue is the tracking and data collection, you could ban/regulate that specifically instead of singling out the app.
Ding ding ding
It is obvious that they want the other (US-based) companies to be able to continue collecting that data so they can gain access to it if they want/need it. It’s bullshit, but it’s clearly what they want.
But that being bullshit does not mean that they are wrong in not wanting the one that is under the control of a foreign adversary having access to that data. Two separate things.
And the US social media companies are filled with spooks.
It’s outright shadowbanned at best and straight up banned at the isp level at worst.
That’s why tik tok is getting banned, because US spooks can’t control it.
Ah yes, TikTok, the land free of censorship. Where you can’t say “gay” and must insert a stupid little asterisk.
I didn’t say tiktok is the bastion of free speech. They only do this in the Palestinian case because it does not serve them anything to be against palestine. We can criticise one party without making the other one some kind of “moral hero” of a story.
The user you are answering to isn’t making “the other party” any kind of moral hero, it’s literally just criticizing TikTok.
Funny how the Chinese are using Palestinians to try to further their own geopolitical position. It’s almost like the October 7th attack as engineered by Israel AND Iran. You know who Irans allies are… Right?
And “Israel” fell right into their trap by…committing genocide.
Bibi did. The guy who would be in prison for corruption charges without Hamas being retards. HURRDURR
That is quite the logic. That it is the fault of the militarized resistance against a colonial state (just a political party really, but putting that aside) that the colonial state’s prime minister is using genocide against their people to hold onto power.
At some point you have to actually ask yourself, am I apply equal standards for assigning blame across the spectrum?
Hamas is being used as a pawn. Should read some Sun Tzu
I’ve read Art of War. Do you have an actual point?
No I don’t. I apologize. Lost a close family member a few days ago and I’m lashing out inappropriately
The last panel applies to every other social media, just replace the spying country.
The last panel also hurts us - fellow non-americans :(
That last part is becoming less and less relevant … someone is spying but it isn’t for the benefit or under the control of a country. More and more, the spying is meant more for the purposes of commerce and finance, for money and control. For business interests which is what major governments mainly represent.
surveillance capitalism…
And as soon as the government wants it, most companies hand it right over.
And it doesn’t matter who or why, either - as soon as someone hoards other people’s data, someone else will try to steal it.
At this point, the line between business and government in the US is almost non-existent, so definitely still a government using your data for the propaganda machine.
Reminds of my favourite description of the US …
“The US isn’t a country, it’s a corporation with a military”
Right? Now do Facebook.
Lemmy begs to differ
There are multiple instances pushing propaganda and most data can just be scraped by bots. It may be harder, but capitalism finds a way.
The multiple instances:
Yes, and that’s why US companies aren’t banned by the US. The foreign power having so much propaganda power was the danger.
So if an American company collects user data and sells it on the open market to a hostile foreign nation, and accepts money to run propaganda, that’s A-OK?
That capitalism baby! I suppose Congress can at least control who Facebook et al. are selling to through sanctions and such.
They could but they haven’t, so this ban is just racist economic protectionism.
I’m not sure what race has to do with economic protectionism, but it’s really a combination of all of the above.
If I wanna get my propaganda from more than one world power, that’s my right under the first amendment. Or it was.
Same reason why China bans a shitload of sites. It’s fine when you do it to your own citizens
As someone who dropped TikTok around 3 years ago, the next month or two are going to be very amusing.
My wife quit it and was back on it a week later. Apparently it’s very addictive. As someone who is on Lemmy a thousand times per day, I guess I can understand. I don’t consider it quite the same though since we actually talk here, and discuss things beyond pressing like buttons on glorified commercials.
Tiktoks have a comment section, and people can reply to comments.
There is a char limit, and while that makes nuance difficult, it also inhibits unhinged rants
Jokes on you, I use lemmy
I’m pretty sure the NSA and its chinese counterpart never heard about ActivityPub.
The House of Saud apparently found out about and took issue to blahaj.zone so who knows
Jokes on you, I use lemmy
Literally made by communists
Jokes on you, you use it too
I’m impervious to communism, comrade.
edit fuck!
They out here. Both of them. This post smells just like one tbh.
? Who’s out here?
The people that countries pay to pretend to be normal everyday users in order to spread state propaganda?
Edit: in this case ‘both’ refers to the image particularly portraying two countries
That’s not what the meme is about. It’s about the company collecting data and giving it to their government
Edit: and adjusting the algorithm to their favor
On Arch tho?
In this house, we only like propaganda that’s covering up genocide. /s
China has its genocides going on to ya know
Nice whataboutism, I guess?
In that case, “in this house” we like Tiktok?
I happen to like that tiktok spreads information about the genocide in Gaza, which is being shadowbanned on the western platforms.
Context is important. The current context of the tiktok ban is that it’s hard for the US to control the political message with that big of a platform not under US control.
I happen to dislike censorship, even if it is done by the west.
I happen to like that tiktok spreads information about the genocide in Gaza,
So in the interest of that, you chose to deny that Tiktok is used to push CCP propaganda.
which is being shadowbanned on the western platforms.
Some of the Western platforms run by billionaires, yes, whom I explicitly compared to the CCP in the original comment.
Context is important. The current context of the tiktok ban is that it’s hard for the US to control the political message with that big of a platform not under US control.
You think it’s the US government which is pushing Facebook and Twitter to censor Palestinian voices?
I happen to dislike censorship, even if it is done by the west.
But you’ll tolerate it, if it pushes one view you do like? Or just if it’s not done by the West?
So in the interest of that, you chose to deny that Tiktok is used to push CCP propaganda.
There’s a difference in not knowing and denying.
Some of the Western platforms run by billionaires, yes, whom I explicitly compared to the CCP in the original comment.
Yeah, when you ignored the context of the OP.
You think it’s the US government which is pushing Facebook and Twitter to censor Palestinian voices?
Are you always this nitpicky?
But you’ll tolerate it, if it pushes one view you do like? Or just if it’s not done by the West?
No. I prefer a wide range of different news sources where I can judge the biases. I can still get good information from Tiktok if I know that I should be critical concerning anything about China’s policy.
So you’d prefer it if Facebook/Twitter/Google/Microsoft/Amazon are the only ones in control of mass online discourse? (That’s the type of strawman you’re constructing of me)
There’s a difference in not knowing and denying.
As I said elsewhere, knowing it but still denying it, is considerably worse than being ignorant or confused.
Yeah, when you ignored the context of the OP.
… what context in the OP did I ignore?
Are you always this nitpicky?
This is what you said:
The current context of the tiktok ban is that it’s hard for the US to control the political message with that big of a platform not under US control.
I didn’t realize that it was nitpicky to dispute a point.
No. I prefer a wide range of different news sources where I can judge the biases. I can still get good information from Tiktok if I know that I should be critical concerning anything about China’s policy.
You shouldn’t be getting any of your information directly from social media. Furthermore, propaganda is like advertising - you are not immune to it. The “I’m too smart to be fooled” approach just makes you a mark.
So you’d prefer it if Facebook/Twitter/Google/Microsoft/Amazon are the only ones in control of mass online discourse? (That’s the type of strawman you’re constructing of me)
I would prefer it if none of them did, and if Facebook or Twitter or Google catches a ban, I won’t be defending them as news sources which don’t spread propaganda, “and if they did, so what?”
The United Nations Human Rights Council doesn’t seem to think so. It put this to bed two years ago. https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-china/news/setback-for-the-west-un-body-rejects-historic-debate-on-chinas-human-rights-record/
Id rather listen to China’s own words: https://www.cpiml.net/liberation/2020/08/chinas-concentration-camps-for-uyghurs-in-chinas-own-words
You should actually read that article and not just the title. What happened there was entirely political.
China also covers up genocides… as does the US… As does Russia, as does almost every nation-state.
The Tiktok ban was mainly instigated because tiktok spread news about the genocide in Gaza
i like my all-american freedom and liberty data collection and propaganda
FreeDumb™️
