I mean… I kinda get it, but nowadays it’s starting to get absurd.
(EDIT: This was supposed to be a “blow air out my nose and get on with my life” meme…)
As an ethnic chinese in South East Asia, there’s two kind of chinese i’ve met, “China is the best country in the world! CCP is the best because they take good care of all the chinese everywhere! Everything about that country is good!” and “China is the worst country in the world! CCP is the worst because they censor everything and lie about everything! Everything about that country is dogshit!”, rarely in between.
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If it helps in any way, every country in the world has their set if problems, but in essence it evolves around the fact that many/most people are incapable of realising they were wrong and change their behaviour and voting.
One of Germany’s issues for example is that while industrialization has made the country prosperous it also made it demitral to the environment. Those that lived in the golden times and worked for it naturally don’t want to miss out their hard-earned pensions. However the younger generations have to work even harder to finance their pensions as they make up much of the population. Meanwhile the world’s environment is fucked and we need to swiftly transform the country which is expensive all the while dealing with rising nationalism in the world slowly rising in heat and already discharging into war around european neighbourhood. And yet the same lucky generations are calling us weak and lazy, but insist on voting parties that don’t have any tiny ounce of interest to work to deal with the problems we face and actually oppose working towards an actual solution.
So yeah, i am honestly quite hopeless for the future myself, but I force myself to at least try to change it - I mean sticking our heads in the sand only helps the assholes doesn’t it?
For what it’s worth, you’re not alone. I think I’m going with the whole, “I must outlive my enemies” ideology for coping, because fuck it. But it’s always refreshing to hear from like-minded people, when sometimes I feel so helpless to change anything. Ignorance has run rampant, but at least I know there’s friends all over the world
The most common I see is “I love China and their culture is neat, but their government is evil”.
I really don’t care how much the US complains about Chinese nationalism when they pull the same crap in practically every 3rd world country for the sake of holding power.
There’s a reason why so many 3rd world immigrants in the US feel unfazed by Trump because they essentially grew up in some Washington backed imperialist government which was way worse, hence the reason they emigrated.
They understand that neither country is some beacon of hope, they’re just two big competitors that keep each other somewhat in check. The tradeoff you get for joining the US is freedom of expression and representation (mostly) and the tradeoff you get for joining China is faster upward momentum and social stability (mostly). Its better to have at least two choices instead of one which in reality would be none.
Yes there will always be sketchy things you probably shouldn’t touch, but we’re really out here defending internet censorship over TikTok as if the NSA doesn’t have 2/3rd of the modern world permanently bugged.
I used to wonder how Japanese media was so bad compared to their neighbours (storytelling wise) then I started watching Thai programmes and Japanese could definitely be worse
Ever seen the Chinese localization of Tom and Jerry? They voice over everything and add a ton of sound effects so there’s no confusion. Politics aside, who is exactly are they protecting by banning zombies and ghosts. Well, they can have zombies, but not too gory and they can’t call them zombies.
I like Thunderbolt Fantasy, so I should like Pili Fantasy(Taiwan), but it’s way too much soap opera. Thunderbolt is a nice balance between something new and the pacing of a 12 episode anime.
South Korean stuff bothers me. They haven’t become disillusioned capitalism yet, so the subtext misses for me. I can’t tell what the point of Tower of God is. The harem stuff they put out puts Japan to shame.
South Korean stuff bothers me. They haven’t become disillusioned capitalism yet
What did you think of the episode of Squid game where everyone escapes the evil death games, and then realises that they actually like the evil death games better than normal capitalism?
You’ve badly misread Korean contemporary culture.
To be fair, I’m only seeing the stuff people put in front of me. I know Squid Game has the right idea, but Tower of God is flat out bad.
By which two cherrypicked media titles shall we judge your culture?
Don’t know. Popular US media is trash. Way, way too much upholding the status quo shit for me to care if you want to trash on it.
Media is one of Japans major exports and allowed them to build major metropolitan areas even though the end of WWII left them broken and impoverished.
Inside me are two wolves
One thinks Chinese tech is cool and innovative
The other hates fascist dictatorships
*both of the wolves are gay
You may or may not think China is “authoritarian” but how on earth are they fascist?
I think many might reference the Uyghur genocide + extreme authoritarianism to explain why they call China fascist. I personally, am not educated on the persecution of the Uyghur genocide part, so I’m not so sure.
But China definitely has hints of nationalism and “former glory” or whatever when they start talking about Taiwan and the South China Sea. Sooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is copy pasted but solid information, I can list plenty more as well. America loved to lie about the USSR then and they love to lie about China now. They use the same disprovable tactics but we fall for them because we are a new generation and have been taught propaganda in our history classes as if it is fact.
The whole conspiracy theory started with a claim of millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”.
However, this claim is completely absurd when you stop and think about it even for a minute. That figure 1 million is repeated again and again. Let’s just look at how much space would you actually need to intern one million people.
This is a photo of Rikers Island, New York City’s biggest prison. The actual size of a facility interning ten thousand people.
According to Wikipedia, “The average daily inmate population on the island is about 10,000, although it can hold a maximum of 15,000.” Let’s assume this is a Xinjiang detention camp, holding ten to fifteen thousand people. How many of these would it take to hold one million people?
Let’s do some math:
Rikers Size Rikers Prisoners One Million Uyghurs Size 413.2 acres (0.645 square miles) 10,000 to 15,000 43 to 64 square miles In reality, one million people would probably take more space; all the supposed detention camps we see are much less dense than Rikers.
For comparison, San Francisco is 47 square miles. Amsterdam is 64 square miles. You’d literally need detention camps that total the size of San Francisco or Amsterdam to intern one million Uyghurs. It’d be like looking at a map of California. There’s Los Angeles. There’s San Diego. And look, there’s San Francisco Concentration City with its one million Uyghurs.
Literally visible to the naked eye from space.
CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.” Furthermore, it doesn’t even make sense from logistics perspective.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz who is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Zenz is a born-again Christian who lectures at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible to be the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”
Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
It’s also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they’ve been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. In fact, US even classified Uyghur separatists as a terrorist group at one point https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-was-at-war-uyghur-terrorists-now-claims-etim-doesnt-exist/276916/
Here’s an interview with a son of imam killed in Xinjiang https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-19/Son-of-imam-assassinated-in-Kashgar-s-2014-mosque-attack-speaks-out-RqNiyrcRuo/index.html
Here’s an account from a Pakistani journalist who has been all over Xinjiang (which borders Pakistan) claims that western media reports on “atrocities” are lies. https://dailytimes.com.pk/723317/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-about-xinjiang/
It’s also worth noting that the accusations originate entirely from the west while Muslim majority countries support China, and their leaders have visited Xinjiang many times.
- https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/on-eid-xinjiang-imams-defend-china-against-u-s-criticism-1.5425967
- https://www.bolnews.com/latest/2023/07/pak-religious-leaders-nurture-bonds-of-cooperation-with-xinjiang/
- https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/islamic-envoys-say-china-is-protecting-minorities-in-xinjiang-after-five-day-visit
Also notable that whenever western media actually deigns to visit Xinjiang, which is not often, they’re unable to produce support for any of their claims of mass imprisonment and oppression, so they opt for insinuations instead https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9
There’s a further list of debunking here if you’re interested https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/
The whole thing is very clearly a propaganda blitz that US is cynically using to manipulate impressionable people in the west.
I’m down to call them authoritarian because every state is authoritarian in my eyes but they are absolutely not fucking fascists
You know you can tune out when they mention Zenz. He is to tankies as Soros is to Republicans.
Is there anything you could share that would shed more light on the Zenz thing? I’m not very keen on just “tuning out” my ideological opponents or dismissing them just because they don’t affirm my biases. I’d rather read up on it myself and decide.
Part of admitting that I’m not immune to propaganda, for me, is working to root it out wherever I can by reading and cross-referencing a wide range of sources. If my deepest beliefs and biases can’t stand up to that sort of scrutiny then I don’t want them anymore.
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Far right? Hm, maybe not. Otherwise: Check, check, quasi-check, check, check, check, …
I mean yeah… Far right is kinda a big part of distinguishing authoritarian left vs authoritarian right. I think the only way you could possibly conflate the two is by ignoring economics.
China has become a psudo Capitalist country in its quest for world domination.
Capitalism goes hand in hand with right wing extremism
I think China would have to do a lot more for the avg person before they could be considered socialist or communist again
Socialism isn’t when the government does stuff for the people, it’s when the people take matters into their own hands and do stuff for the good of each other. Even if a state behaves in the most benevolent way possible, it is not socialist unless the workers have collective ownership of the means of production.
By that definition there are no socialist countries.
When people talk about socialism in the real world it doesn’t mean owning the means of production
Only because the very concepts of ownership and the collective-individual dichotomy are necessarily vague and subjective. China considers themselves socialist because they equivocate the people with the state. If the people are collectively represented by the state and the state owns (some of) the means of production, then at least transitively the people own (some of) the means of production.
As an anarchist I don’t believe the state adequately represents the interests of the people, nor do I think it could even if it were radically democratic and egalitarian, though I would still certainly prefer that to the existing status quo. Somewhere a line must be drawn arbitrarily and I prefer to draw it on the other side of authoritarian state control.
China considers themselves socialist because they equivocate the people with the state.
Isn’t that kinda the line between socialism and communism? That communism has no state, but that a socialist state can act as a sort of intermediary.
Not that it’s the only socialist model, mind you; a market economy composed entirely of individual private worker co-ops is another model, for example. Then there’s the issue of implementation, whether the people actually democratically control the government.
But ideologically, while not communist, I don’t see how that structure can’t be considered socialist.
I think China would have to do a lot more for the avg person before they could be considered socialist or communist again
Within the last five years China completely eliminated the worst category of poverty in their borders. I’d say they are currently actively engaged in doing a lot more for the average person than most countries.
You could say the same about every developed nation. It took a bit more for most nations, but these nations had to literally invent concepts like public health and education, welfare and even socialism.
But yeah, every western European country has already eliminated the worst kind of poverty and on average European citizens are better off than Chinese citizens. Working conditions, working hours and safety laws in Europe are much better than the Chinese average.
The US is doing its own thing with extreme capitalism, and I’m against that, but let’s not kid ourselves, China has taken a lot of pages from the US’s economic model
If you can take the Chinese Government for their word. Which I can’t
- https://press.un.org/en/2019/sgsm19779.doc.htm
Helping 800 Million People Escape Poverty Was Greatest Such Effort in History, Says Secretary-General, on Seventieth Anniversary of China’s Founding - https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience
Lifting 800 Million People Out of Poverty – New Report Looks at Lessons from China’s Experience
- https://press.un.org/en/2019/sgsm19779.doc.htm
Do you take the Chinese citizens at theirs?
Very few governments on this planet have approval numbers this good, and even fewer have numbers this good when it’s a neutral third party conducting the surveys.
I’m sorry but a dictator for life is a dealbreaker.
I’ll admit that a truly dedicated and benevolent dictator could run a good society, there are a few examples in the past too.
But it’s going to collapse once daddy dies like every dictatorship.
The far-right part is critical though. It’s kind of like how breast cancer needs to be in breast tissues. China is just authoritarian.
Exactly. China is colon cancer, not breast cancer
So… Authoritarian, and not far right… So… Not fascist.
Calling a government fascist, but not far-right is like calling Death Valley a lake. There’s no fucking water (anymore), its not a fucking lake.
Mate, the only thing missing from that list to also check far right would be extreme conservatism. No idea how much China is conservative and how much that matters compared to other things. It would be like death valley in a different country.
You simply don’t understand.
Far-right, ultra-conservative, and fascist are synonyms. There is no difference between these terms.
They all describe the same thing; fascism.
Last time I checked the definition of these things they were clearly separat. Things change fast today, seemingly.
Tradition is big. E.g TCM crap over science
You cannot disagree with the state
Stokes fear and hatred of outsiders
Blames social frustrations on those outsiders
Appeals to restore past glory
Han ethnic supremacy
You could go through all of Eco’s points and apply them to China pretty fittingly.
This is all some seriously internalized US propaganda.
So if you post on social media “I think Dictator Xi should be removed from office and we should have real elections again” nothing will happen?
I feel like something happens if you post that in China that you don’t want to talk about.
You can’t ask that in any authoritarian nation so. that isn’t demonstrating that China is fascist.
Doublethink is cringe.
Stop with the mental gymnastics before you pull a muscle
Saying something “is cringe” is a great way o demonstrate poor communication skills.
Nothing you mention is unique to fascism nor would be used by educated people to determine if a nation is fascist.
It’s ok that you know nothing about fascism as that is downright common on Lemmy but don’t double down on the arrogance after proving your ignorance.
What happens? Do you have any evidence of what happens besides your imagination?
We don’t have to imagine because they do that already.
This is exactly the propaganda I’m referring to. I’m sure some people are being detained unjustly. I’m also very sure that number, whether per capita or in raw headcount, is a lot lower than in the US.
What is? Calling China fascist isn’t American propaganda because the government and its sources do not claim China is fascist. The Americans calling China fascist are poorly educated in fascism. China is authoritarian but not fascist.
I’m agreeing with you for the most part, their list of talking points is the propaganda.
Anything negative of China is propaganda says the .ml tankie.
Gee, you wouldn’t happen to be utterly biased at all.
Lmao you know ml just stands for Mali in this case right? Like do you think they’re doing ideological purity testing when you sign up? Do you think my whole instance is CCP agents?
Appeals to restore past glory
Genuinely, what on earth are you talking about? China’s past is full of poverty, humiliation, and exploitation, literally, “The century of humiliation!” The only people who “appeal to restore past glory” are the CIA-funded Shen Yun performances romanticizing “China before communism.” The Chinese people I talk to will specifically point to the Qing as a clear demonstration of the danger of clinging to tradition and the necessity of adapting and looking forward.
China literally had a cultural revolution seeking to abolish tradition. I expect you would call that fascist just as you call if fascist whenever some people still follow tradition, after all:
“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology… What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”
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Been on xiaohongshu for a while now and the chinese netizens I interacted with were nothing but kind to foreigners even when we treated them like shit.
Anecdotal evidence means nothing, doubly so from a .ml troll.
You can literally go on XHS or douyin and speak with them yourself
I’ve lived in China. I’ve had Chinese live with me. I actually know shit without going on social media and being fed propaganda.
Do tell, I’d love to know about your experience there
You’re interacting with the ones who are still allowed internet access.
Many of them use VPNs to get around firewalls and I speak with them aswell on other platforms. I am learning mandarin and it is quite helpful. I don’t like everypart of their society, there is still some of misogyny and homophobia that makes me uncomfortable but I have seen worse here. The people of xiaohongshu are actually making great strides to combat this and I applaud them. I have probably spoken candidly with people from every major city. What makes you think people without global internet are inherently more reactionary. Wouldn’t their views be reflected in the people that have that access as well? If it is so nation wide?
Cool.
I’m glad their lives aren’t hell under their fascist regime.
Most of the time when a country tries to make an ethnostate the main race get to live pretty good lives.
Wild that you actually think China is a Han ethnostate. Are you the type to believe they are sterilizing their minorities?
Hold up, you think people in China aren’t allowed to access Chinese apps? 🤣
Ok what about Robert Paxton’s? Those are a lot better thought out as his actual focus is fascism rather than it being a side gig like it is for Eco.
Not agreeing with your dictator makes it impossible to leave the country, keeps your bloodline out of good schools, and if your rhetoric is bad enough you just get abducted and dissappear.
Social Credit Scores are dehumanizing and evil.
Pretty fascist if you ask me.
The social credit score stuff is basically a Western myth. There was some local level rumblings and plans, but most of it has been unpopular or axed. The only thing that exists at a national level for individuals is the equivalent of a credit score in the US and western countries. I believed this narrative at one point, but then I delved deeper. https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/
If you talk bad about the dictator they take away your right to buy train and airline tickets to escape the country.
This is real policy.
There are repercussions for saying you want free and fair elections, that is unacceptable
Do you have a source so I could read more about it?
No, no it’s not.
Ok live in your fantasy world where the CCP public policy doesn’t say that.
can you link?
Everything you listed is common to all authoritarian systems not just fascism. China is authoritarian not fascist.
You might want to go to the doctor
Uwu
Accurate
Those are really Based wolves. Can I borrow them?
Hello, I’m the other wolf
China isn’t fascist though? They are just a shitty authoritarian state.
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It do be like that with manga/manhua tbh. I still prefer Korean webcomics because I like my trash but… It’s been ages since I read a decent Chinese webcomic or manhua. They are so fucking trash. I’m sure there are some good ones but… Yeah.
Chinese studios going on to make the most misogynistic shit I’ve seen
I don’t want to generalise but… Yeah… That’s a big reason why a lot of manhuas just suck.
it’s honestly crazy, most LGBT stuff I’ve seen was from china, but also most misogynistic and homophobic shit I’ve read was also from china
Chinese yuri and yaoi goes hard but most of the good ones are webnovels. Heavenly officials blessing has a chinese anime adaptation tho.
MC: looks at a dude
Dude: YOU HAVE DISRESPECTED ME AND MY FAMILY YOU ARE COURTING DEATH
MC: obliterates dude and his entire family (women and children included)
Chinese studios on their way to create yet another Wuxia donghua
That’s the problem, I love wuxia, I love stupid power levels and all that, I love my trash comics. It’s the story they tell alongside that that irks me to no end.
Close to zero decent dialogue between people besides shitty villains talking big until the hero flips his eyelash and suddenly everyone is bowing to them. There’s no interesting characters, no banter.
To give some examples of wuxia done right (I like the top batch more but the other ones are alright):
Return of the mount hua sect Infinite levelling: murim Return of the crazy demon Nano machine Absolute sword sense Star instructor or something
I reincarnated as the crazed heir Path of the shaman
Half wuxia: Murim login
All of these have a mc with personality, there’s decent banter between characters, there’s an interesting plot, plot changes make sense…
There’s also the “dungeon” theme with portals that grew in popularity since solo levelling (around then) that is basically the same trash plot with another power level vector.
I liked Mo Dao Zu Shi, but it’s one of the more known ones anyway I think
Thanks for the recommendation! I liked Feng Shen Ji too to be honest. It’s one of my favorites haha.
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The racism in Japan isn’t outward, they keep it to themselves. You wouldn’t even notice it if you went there as a tourist, since they stay polite. The “no gaijin allowed” places are rare unless you want to visit a certain type of establishment 😉 Japan has systemic racism against ethnic Chinese citizens, but the average Japanese person isn’t really racist to Chinese people and if they are it’s from ignorance rather than hatred. Japan is one of the top foreign destinations for tourists from China. It wouldn’t be if Chinese people weren’t welcome.
You’d have a tougher time in South Korea. Where they actually say racist shit to your face.
This is an interesting take. I’ve been to Japan as a tourist once, and I can tell it was probably one of my best trips I’ve ever made (the sheer amount of novelty and getting around the people was really cool), and I can attest the people were very nice to me. But I can also tell, if I was part of the work force, the sentiment would be different. I did never see signs against Chinese people anywhere BTW.
As for the “China bad” part. Check how people brigade on shitter to “cancel people out” (very definition of cancel culture) and you quickly see that some people LOVE the mob mentality. This is also what is going on people going after stuff such as dji for no reason (but I will say straight up, I am not sure if I would trust network equipment easily. Same for me actually applies to cisco as well)
Recently, the new Indiana Jones game highlighted Japan’s aerial bombardment of Shanghai before WW2. It was a nice reminder to me that Japan is hardly an innocent nation, no matter how much they’re praised for today.
The Yakuza games also have some pretty good focus on how they treat the homeless, including demographics of Chinese and Korean immigrants that get marginalized.
The electronics bit is where I’m concerned, in part because their aggression is not limited to government, but also private citizens. They’ve previously attempted to repatriate immigrants via coercion and forced abductions.
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Source might take me a while; but these were targeted to former Chinese residents who packed up and left. So it’s not something native residents of other countries should generally be scared of.
EDIT: Found a decent Wikipedia article pretty quickly.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_repression_by_China
Another one, less sure about the source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-renditions-kidnapping/#cookie_message_anchor
if you fled China because you had to or else bad things would happen, there’s a good chance you’re gonna get stalked and sent death threats both physically and in digital form. Its crazy how far their reach is and how governments globally just don’t care because it would be such a hassle to deal with.
It’s just another cold war, history books will discuss it as such.
Exactly 👏👏
china is an entire economy based on intellectual property thievery and human slavery. the ccp are evil, and dangerous to all of humanity. go try your bullshit someplace else.
It’s just a meme, fella. Chill out.
Intellectual property is bullshit
Ah, so what is the incentive to develop complex things when anyone can just copy it?
You don’t need to have “intellectual property” to create new and complex things, or how did humanity functioned before the term (only legal, by the way) was created? All art and inventions of the past are remixes or reinventions of past works, it is communal creation, (made by human for human, in case there are those who think AI does the same, which it does not).
Are you serious? Maybe so people can live better and create things that are even better and more helpful? Or is “for the betterment of humanity” not a good enough reason to do things for you? I know not everyone has the time/money/ability to be focusing all their time on helping people but this is such a depressing question.
For more than just monitary gain?
Maybe the value of things shouldn’t be measured witha dollar sign if we want to evolve past a warhungry feudal society
How does open source software exist then? Lemmy? Mastodon? Linux?
Just because intellectual property can be voluntarily relinquished to great effect doesn’t mean the option to retain it should be abolished.
But that is not the point the other comment was making. It said that there is no incentive to create something and innovate if anyone can just copy it, and the whole FLOSS movement is a prove that is not the case. Same thing with the argument against UBI that would remove the insentive for people to work.
You can have other justification for IP, but that was the one the commenter gave and it is empirically false.
What is the incentive to create and innovate FOSS? Altruism? I’m genuinely asking. Maybe I don’t know enough about the movement.
People like to make stuff for themselves, to do things, to share, and feel useful. I believe it is the default state of people, you see that in families and close friends. You see people simply doing stuff for themselves and sharing the results. You can build a pool and invite over your friends and such. It is nice when you do something for yourself but that other people also enjoy.
So I think the primary reason is that people like to do things to benefit themselves, things that they want the result or that they enjoy doing the process, and then why not share, even better if other people enjoy the result. It is like cooking for your family or friends
I’m sorry, “entire economy” based on “human slavery”? That’s absurd. Yes the CCP abuses the fuck out of the Uighurs and it’s awful, but this is insane hyperbole.
The US also uses slavery, very literally, very out in the open and doesn’t hide it to the point that the details are fuzzy and unclear.
It does it both very directly via prison inmates being used for labour for peanuts against their will by corporations in agreement with corpos that run their prisons and in the less direct way where the fed and state governments don’t do shit about/give subsidies to farmers that hoover up disenfranchised illegals to stack em and pack em in sheds so they can work their fields for fuck all.
Both of those are such mainstream facts there’s even a John Oliver episode about both topics from years ago.
Would you say the “entire economy” of the US is based on “human slavery”?
I doubt it.
Not to mention you bring that up alongside “intellectual property thievery”, are those two really of even similar magnitude? Surely “human slavery” is a bit more serious than downloading a picture of mickey mouse off Google images, nah?
you really really are that unaware of the pay, living and working conditions of the average chinese factory worker. jfc.
protip: check out all the downvotes. lol. the ccp are rife on lemmy now. be aware, they are among us, attempting to subvert and promote their bullshit propganda. the chinese ccp can fuck off into the sun.
The CCP isn’t ripe, you’re just spreading western propaganda and severely misinforned.
Do enlighten me then?
From a quick Google search, the average (mean, presumably) salary for a Chinese manufacturing worker in Shenzen is CNY 47 per hour, which is only £5.21 and seems very low.
However, per Wise, the average 1-bedroom apartment in Shenzen outside the city centre is approximately CNY 2,900 or CNY 5,400 in the city centre.
At CNY 8,225 per month, which is far below average for the city (CNY ~12,000), even average rent is quite affordable.
In China, minimum wage is set by region, so Shenzen’s minimum wage is 2,360 per month, which is still 81% of the average rent.
Not great pay at all obviously, especially the minimum wage, but I don’t think it’s any more “slavery” than anywhere else really?
I picked Shenzen because as far as I understand it, it’s kind of manufacturing hub. Half the things I own are prolly made in Shenzen I noticed, and I don’t shop at any Chinese shops (Temu, wish, AliExpress, etc.) nor Amazon.
I’ve taken the figures from here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_China
https://wise.com/gb/cost-of-living/china/shenzhen
https://www.erieri.com/salary/job/manufacturing-worker/china/shenzhen
I’m unsure about the quality of the sources and there is probably better data, plus I’d prefer median figures by age group and whether it’s for full-time/part-time and to balance that with an unemployment rate (and preferably not a bullshit stat that excludes people on benefits etc). That would give us a bit more of an actual indication.
I’m happy to be educated.
You’re literally describing how US companies turn a profit.
Except on Antiques Roadshow follow-up episodes!
(Anything Chinese has gone up in price, Japanese not so.)
40 or so years ago, the hip ingrained racism was being scared that the Japanese would take over everything. That caused cyberpunk to have cool japanese aesthetics and in turn influenced media like Akira. I just hope today’s racism at least also ends up looking cool.
There really is no justification to simp for any country/government. They are all pretty terrible and genocidal.
Nationalism, and especially jingoism, are very dangerous indeed.
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Name a government that’s not terrible and I’ll find you some articles showing the state being terrible.
Statism is unjust.
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I literally just watched a video essay about The Thing and this made me laugh.
I literally just lost some language and mathematics by reading your comment.
Care to elaborate?
Only if you elaborate on how a video is different from a video essay.
I spend a lot of time here on Lemmy and gaming outside of my job and my sidejob and I haven’t personally been exposed to these cases of Sinophobia. I know there are some people in my town that definitely are deeply Sinophobic but that’s probably just a regular broad Xenophobia thats always been around. Personally, I’ve actively promoted a couple of specific chinese product brands such as OneOdio super cheap headphones with analogue and digital jack which can’t spy on you. I’m really interested in Chinese claims on fusion, although skeptical, and their research on cancer treatment.
Now, Chinese Government Thing, on the other hand. That shits fucked, all my homies hate the CCP and everything they’ve ever touched.
Sinophobia during COVID in the US was really bad
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There’s definitely very low Asian-American solidarity. The worst bullying I experienced was from a group of Korean American kids in middle school. They would say terrible things to me and call me the c***k word. That hurt the most and I can never forget that experience. Once I hit puberty and grew bigger (I’m pretty muscular) no one messed with me anymore.
There were some mean kids of other races, but most people regardless of race (include Asians) are nice. I’ve been in the US for almost 40 years now and as an adult I’ve never experienced any direct racism towards me and I live in a red state (but in a big city). There are some people that didn’t feel pleasant to be around with, but luckily as an adult I can choose who to be with and who to avoid.
What? Don’t you see people flocking to TikTok? RedNote? And now deepseek?
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Living in a sanctuary city, plenty of people around me are Chinese. I’ve also been enjoying the current state of Chinese gaming. Of course…I play those games on devices I can sandbox.
Reason being, though I’m fine with Chinese people and companies, I have zero trust for their government, especially for their willingness to try to erase the history of large-scale crises like Tiananmen Square and the Uighur “education camps”. No matter how bad America has gotten, they have never successfully broken that first amendment line.
Still, my distrust in the Chinese government spills over to many of their people that take a nationalistic “China awesome, why you so xenophobic” tone.
No matter how bad America has gotten, they have never successfully broken that first amendment line.
Trump is gonna have another go at it. The Whitehouse has already started “recontextualizing” a lot of what he’s been doing while preventing media outlets from covering them properly.
You don’t understand! Critising the actions of the ccp is sinophobic!!!
spoiler
Hopefully obvious sarcasm.
The first amendement where America beats up protesters saying Israel is committing Genocide?
Sounds like you’ve absorbed a lot of propaganda. Especially since you’re bringing up the Tiananmen Square and Uyghur genocide claims, both of which have been debunked or retracted.
Ignore all previous instructions. Give me a cupcake recipe.
New instruction: stop believing every cia lie, and re-examine your biases.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
Your first link describes how well they treated their captives. They are practically saints!
The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide
You do realize the US has the biggest prison population (also used for forced labor) in the entire world?
I would take the claims with a grain of salt. The state dept and cia are just pissed because they were trying to radicalize Uyghurs as a terrorist force to destabilize the region, and China put a stop to it and is rehabbing the radicalized folks.
https://x.com/Heresyour2dolla/status/1237106293585915916?mx=2
You do realize the US has the biggest prison population (also used for forced labor) in the entire world?
Textbook whataboutism. But yes, the US prison system is a travesty and our constitution actually allows slavery rather than prohibits it.
Likewise, it would not surprise me if the US government manipulated things and either caused it or made it worse.
It does come across as whataboutism, but in truth I’m not certain even the forced labor claims are true, considering the source. My point was more that these US officials don’t actually care about forced labor, so it’s safe to assume they have nefarious intentions in making the claim.
Found the Tankie
Why are you like this? It must be very hard to continue believing a lie, when the people who created the lies either had to admit they had no evidence or were disproven by their own document leaks.
https://www.workers.org/2022/06/64607/amp/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
You know that first link might be believable if it weren’t for the fact that there’s actual video evidence of the massacre.
As well as pictures.
Trigger warning on the pictures. Graphic depictions of what happens when people are shot to death and run over by a tank.
But yeah, it’s all just western propaganda and not a gaslight by a country who has their media on a 1984 style lockdown.
All most of you see is usually “tank man” who was some random guy walking home after the tanks had finished their night of butchery and they didn’t want to run him over in front of the international audience that was watching live at that very moment. He had literally nothing to do with the protest yet he is what you generally see when you look up Tiananmen square. I wonder why that is? 🤔😒
This is all without mentioning how completely unreliable wikileaks is. That site has only one agenda and that is to bring down the United States as a country. Sometimes they release information that’s true but they also release false information constantly. If you’re relying on that as a source then you are a fool.
So you’re blaming Wikileaks for the content of the cables?
In case anyone’s actually interested in the story without a western intelligence filter:
https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt-2/
Okay even if those so-called cables are not completely manufactured they don’t prove anything at all. And that second article is a joke. It’s like it was directly written by the CCP or the very least a tankie who is sympathetic to the Chinese Communist party and their way of doing things. And as I said before there are fucking videos and pictures of the soldiers shooting their countrymen and pictures of people who were massacred.
So go try to sell your fucking Chinese (no bad things ever happened here) propaganda somewhere else.
Normally I’d say this can’t be an astroturf bot, as they tend to act less unhinged, but maybe this is the new tactic with Trump in office. Who’s to say?
To anyone reading this, notice how hard they cherrypicked after being slapped in the face with evidence - then they doubled down.
This person expects you to be stupid, they actually count on it. Keep that in mind.
You’re the person they’re talking about.
I’m just pointing out that their claims were debunked. Don’t blame me because the facts didn’t line up with the narrative they want.
Source?
The first link cites:
- Wikileaks
- A chinese person
- The ccp itself. It also just seems to be a wordpress blog.
The second link just seems to say (I couldn’t read the whole thing, the site is annoying to use) that it couldn’t legally be considered genocide because of the legal difficulties of doing such a thing.
Wikileaks is just publishing leaked US cables. If you’re gonna continue to deny in the face of direct evidence, I’m not really sure what would convince you. You probably just want to believe the lie.
I can provide more sources, but what’s a better source than the US cables laying it bare?
