• Zuberi 👀
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    62 years ago

    Dumb take is dumb. Digital ownership is the “next” internet whether the bootlickers want it or not.

    • Neato
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      252 years ago

      Blockchain is stupid and cryptocurrency is a scam.

      • Liam Galt
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        152 years ago

        Blockchain and cryptocurrencies are pretty cool from just a technology perspective. At university I studied a lot of math and cryptography and that happened to be at the same time that Bitcoin became a thing. It could have some real applications, but scammers and cryptobros ruined it for everyone and now I can’t even say I find crypto (meaning cryptography) cool without seeming like an asshat.

        • Neato
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          152 years ago

          Blockchain is an unchangeable (unless you own the only authority as we’ve seen, or you fork it) database that can only grow. It HAS to have multiple, identical instances or the owner can corrupt it. I’m not sure I see any benefit here except for potential security. But we’ve seen blockchains get into the terrabytes pretty quickly which isn’t that feasible for large-scale operations.

          • Liam Galt
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            12 years ago

            You’re right about that for sure. But a few TB isn’t that big a deal anymore, and if there was a need to deal with it we could come up with something… or just not use it at all. 😎

          • AtHeartEngineer
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            12 years ago

            This is why Ethereum is moving to statelessness. Where only a rolling state is saved but the diffs are broadcast and accessible for a certain period of time before they are dropped. So any system listening to an Ethereum node can just follow the root and listen for just changes they care about.

            • Neato
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              12 years ago

              How do you ensure you are holding an accurate copy of the blockchain in that case? A single holder of a blockchain means the entire thing is insecure and the holder can change or steal whatever they want.

              If a new player wants to host a copy of the etherum blockchain, how do they do that when it’s stateless?

              • AtHeartEngineer
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                12 years ago

                It will still have some state, things like merkle roots will still be verifiable, and any derived/state that isn’t kept from the main chain will have some form of proof that links it to the main chain.

                Most actual transactions/normal user stuff is moving to layer 2 chains, which commit a hash or proof of their state to the main chain. So they will still carry their state, but rely on the security of Ethereum main net.

                There will still be archive nodes that store everything that’s ever happened, but being a full archive node won’t be required to run a normal node as a validator or as a user. This allows the network to be more decentralized without every node needing 2-4TB of fast nvme to even do anything.

      • Free Palestine 🇵🇸
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        12 years ago

        Well, I guess I just used a „scam“ to pay for my VPN subscription. Later today, I will use another „scam“ to pay for my email service. Tomorrow I will use a „scam“ to pay for a VPS. Some day, I might use a „scam“ to rent a seedbox. So unfortunate that your so called „scam“ is actually usable to make payments online. In fact, those „scam“ payments are in some cases better, then‚ using a absolutely trustworthy credit card issued by a definitely trusted a reliable bank. Because banks never collapse and they never scam their customers. Such trustworthy multi-billion dollar corporations, I really don’t see a reason to distrust them. Depending on which “scam” you use, your payments are actually anonymous, just like cash. But the government and your bank don’t want you to use cash, because that way, they can’t track all of your transactions. They hand you a credit card, and they advertise it to you, and you actually start thinking that it is supposed to help you, while in reality it makes you a slave to the corporate and government-lead surveillance system. Fuck credit cards, fuck banks and payment providers, fuck central banks and governments. Use Monero and stay anonymous.

        • Neato
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          12 years ago

          What’s the transaction or gas fee just to pay your bills?

      • Zuberi 👀
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        92 years ago

        Digital verification and tokenization of securities would prevent all fraud in the stock market

        • @[email protected]
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          2 years ago

          lol. So all the fraud in the crypto space that isn’t being prevented is a feature?

          Virtually none of the fraud in the stock market is because of lack of verification or tokenization.

          • Zuberi 👀
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            52 years ago

            Please lemmy.world god, tell me what the fraud in the stock markets is from

            • @[email protected]
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              92 years ago

              People lying about the underlying assets the stock represents? People cooking their books? Pump and dump scams? Receiving multiple lines of credit against the same assets?

              What forms of fraud are solved by tokenization or digital attestation that are prevalent today?

              • Zuberi 👀
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                62 years ago

                Rehypothenticaton and naked short selling would both be entirely eliminated globally

                • @[email protected]
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                  2 years ago

                  Neither of those are fraud, bud. You just don’t like them. Vote for people who also don’t like them. Blockchain won’t solve either.

        • Neato
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          92 years ago

          Instead we got scams on top of scams and zero use out of either. Wake me up when anyone finds a use that isn’t theft. I’ll be in fucking torpor by the time I’m woken up.

          • Zuberi 👀
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            52 years ago

            Talking shit about early-alpha type shit is so dumb. People said the exact same shit about web2

            • Neato
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              102 years ago

              Lol, web2? When Facebook, reddit, amazon, twitter, etc pretty much killed the internet and consolidated most users under themselves. That was an unmitigated failure for the internet. It has directly led to the homogenization and garbage heaps we have now.

                • Neato
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                  102 years ago

                  Web3 isn’t fixing shit. It’s more techbros trying to steal more of the internet. How many NFTs you own, bro?

        • @[email protected]
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          12 years ago

          They are just distributed ledgers with deflationary economic policies added. Not really impressive.

  • Free Palestine 🇵🇸
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    102 years ago

    If Federation/Decentralization could be combined with decentralized crypto currency payments through something like Monero in a way that is not a scam, it would actually be great. We need some kind of monetization model for the Federated Web, and crypto currencies are actually great for that purpose but so far all implementations of this haven’t really worked or were just a scam.

      • Free Palestine 🇵🇸
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        32 years ago

        Why are Miners a problem? You need people who mine the crypto and then sell it to you, cryptos with a pre-mined supply are garbage. The problem is not with the miners, cryptos like BTC or ETH that can be mined with ASICs are the root of the problem. The only crypto currency I consider legitimate is Monero (XMR) because its RandomX algorithm makes it resistant to ASICs and GPUs. It is meant to be mined with a CPU, and only CPU-mining is efficient and economically viable. (Although in the Monero community, we don’t mine Monero for the money, we do it to support the decentralized system) XMR has the core idea that 1 CPU = 1 vote on the blockchain. Everyone has a device with a CPU, thus everyone can mine. ASIC-powered mining farms in China (which are often the ASIC factories themselves) don’t have an advantage over regular users, as it should be.

        • @[email protected]
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          22 years ago

          Why do you need mining or artificial scarcity at all? Yes, CPU mining is more ‘efficient’, but what is the point? And why are all (as far as I can tell) crypto currencies deflationary? It encourages hoarding rather than spending and investment which can be economically devestating. Maybe that doesn’t matter for black market usage, but there are many crypto supporters who see it as the future of actual currency.

          BTW Monero is like the one crypto I find kinda interesting, due to the privacy aspects.

          • @[email protected]
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            12 years ago

            Not all cryptocurrencies are deflationary. Yes the deflationary model encourages holding/discourages spending however for some projects this is a desired outcome based on the utility the coin/token is aiming to provide.

            Additionally deflationary crypto can act as a hedge against inflation, hyperinflation, and stagflation. The decreasing supply can counteract inflationary pressure caused by externalities like government policies and economic shake ups.

            • @[email protected]
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              12 years ago

              I think any hedge against inflation is countered by the extreme volatility most of them suffer from.

              Which cryptos are non-deflating BTW?

          • Free Palestine 🇵🇸
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            12 years ago

            Because that’s how the blockchain works. Without validation (which is what Mining does) anyone could just claim they have e.g. 1 million XMR when they have zero. Because you don’t have a central authority in crypto currencies, you need some other mechanism which verifies that transactions are legitimate. That mechanism is a whole bunch of complex math, or in other terms, Mining (in the context of crypto currency). Glad you like XMR though.

  • squiblet
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    722 years ago

    but how do I give someone .0045 cents for no apparent reason??

    • qazOP
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      12 years ago

      I’m already using it, but just for notes so there aren’t any measurable improvements over the traditional methods. It’s still cool to see it work though.

    • Cynetri (he/any)
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      132 years ago

      What’s IPFS in layman’s terms? The Wikipedia is hard for me to follow lol

      • Laura
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        72 years ago

        basically like bittorrent but the entire network is just one swarm and blocks are deduplicated and everyone keeps the stuff they accessed for a while so peers near to them can fetch it from them

        it also has a dht, a pubsub like system for fast message propagation and changeable content and is built to be future proof on the protocol level (everything is modular and self describing and can be swapped out)

        oh and also everything can link to everything by its CID (content identifier)

      • @[email protected]
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        212 years ago

        I don’t know the details (checked it out once, before crypto integration), but it’s like bittorrent. You seed your own files, people who download and keep the files also seed. I think I once tried out a prototype decentralized (crypto) ebay-like app, and all images were “hosted” on IPFS. (So, once the app downloaded the product image, it seeded it to other clients).

        I believe all files are hashed, and something like DHT is used to lookup files by hash id.

    • @[email protected]
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      272 years ago

      A post mentioning IPFS that hasn’t been downvoted into the mantle? I’m impressed.

      It seems that most people don’t have any idea that it’s not reliant upon blockchain.

      Somebody asked the other day about hosting websites on cell phones. I mentioned that IPFS would be just about perfect for that and everyone got out their pitchforks.

  • @[email protected]
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    22 years ago

    give it some time and there will be crypto based instance. I think both technologies can coexist.

  • The dogspaw
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    282 years ago

    Don’t forget about nfts there the future man they can’t be replicated man where can you spend 100k and by the end of the week your investment is worh $3.50

    • @[email protected]
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      102 years ago

      NFTs weren’t created to be the proof of ownership of digital art, they just happen to be associated with that because that’s what the majority of them were created for.

      The NFT isn’t the art that can be copy-pasted to any computer, it’s the proof of ownership. Criticizing them by saying “I can just download a copy of the picture!” is like saying copyrights are useless because you can use tools to rip movies from streaming services, sure you “own a copy”, it doesn’t make you a rightful owner of it from the perspective of the law.

      • The dogspaw
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        12 years ago

        But there worthless because digital art is intrinsically less valuable than real art

          • The dogspaw
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            12 years ago

            A real piece of art will always be more valuable than some electronic picture

        • @[email protected]
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          2 years ago

          The intrinsic value of any art is what someone is willing to pay for it.

          For example the world’s most expensive NFT, The Merge by Pak, sold for $91.8 million. Its price was higher than the sale of Jeff Koon’s Rabbit, the most expensive artwork by a living artist at auction. It’s all about personal tastes and how deep folks wanna dig in their pockets with this stuff.

      • qazOP
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        NFT’s also don’t implicitly make you the rightfull owner. The basketball NFT’s content still explicitly belongs to the seller. The only true way for NFT’s to work for digital content is to have a contract that specifically states that the NFT proves ownership, but you might as well write it directly in the contract at that point.

        • @[email protected]
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          42 years ago

          This specifically depends on the project producing the NFTs. Some grant full ownership while some do not.

            • @[email protected]
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              22 years ago

              I fail to understand your point. What extra step? You either get ownership or you don’t based on the asset you’ve acquired. NFTs don’t have alto be a once size fits all kind of thing. You are just oversimplifying it. The same can work for physical objects that you purchase. Vehicle manufacturers make it to where you can’t service your own vehicle sometimes because of special tools needed… So do you really own it? Hmmmm

                • @[email protected]
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                  22 years ago

                  I’ll just use a small example… Let’s say you have an NFT for a online casino project. Simply holding the nft in your wallet will give you a weekly payout (certain percentage of profits for that week/month)

                  I use this example because nfts can have many different uses. Another would be gated communities/gated access to online services. Hope that helps it make sense a little

                • @[email protected]
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                  2 years ago

                  I buy a picture from you on an NFT marketplace, I get an NFT proving I bought it. What value does an NFT provide in this case?

                  In this case, assuming you’re a trader in this example, you’d be banking on whatever art you purchased to gain further value so you can then sell your certificate of ownership and make a profit. This is no different than art sales/trades IRL. Here’s an art gallery owner discussing using NFTs as certificates of ownership for real world art sales and the added benefits over traditional COOs.

      • The dogspaw
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        172 years ago

        Its not a jpeg man its an nft it uses blockchain man it can’t be replicated its totally the future now let me plug in 50 gpus I got to start mining

        • @[email protected]
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          52 years ago

          Its not a jpeg man its an nft it uses blockchain man it can’t be replicated its totally the future

          It’s funny you say this because in the near future once blockchain usage becomes more mainstream, you’re going to see NFT tech used for things like concert tickets, sporting events, movie tickets etc… because they can’t be counterfeited and produced at a fraction of the cost of traditional tickets. As long as the NFT sits in your crypto wallet, you’re granted access to the event.

          People tend to forget how much the original web was plagued with scams and such, or maybe some are too young to even know much about it… Crypto is new and will take some time before it matures. But I believe decentralization is the future and is one of the reasons I’m on Lemmy.

          • @[email protected]
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            122 years ago

            I dislike this take to much.

            First of all, crypto doesn’t protect you from scams, just look around you.

            If you get ‘one true crypto’, you get locked in by its architecture, and there’s always someone who controls said architecture. The chain is decentralized, but the core is not.

            Also, tickets are controlled almost exclusively by a central authority, which owns the venues, so there is no way in hell they will let you keep a ledger of every purchase of every ticket. It’s better for them to keep it concealed.

            There is so much bullshit in the crypto hype, it’s almost funny.

            If you want to put crypto anywhere, do the stock market first, and then get back to me.

            • @[email protected]
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              52 years ago

              I never claimed made a claim that it protected you from scams. I said it can’t be counterfeited.

              I really don’t want a “one true crypto”. I think different blockchains can serve different purposes.

              And as far as ticketing goes, yes the centralized authority (let’s say Disney for example) would set a max amount of tickets (nfts) to be sold/minted and they would be distributed to wallets as they are sold. Nobody else would have a way to alter or counterfeit fake tickets.

              I can totally understand all the hate for crypto though. I mean… I’m a gamer and bought my graphics card during the peak of crypto mining. Was I happy? Hell no. I had a deep hate for crypto at the time… But I decided to dig deeper into what the rage was about. Using actual crypto wallets and interacting with Dapps was quite eye opening to what the future web could be like.

              But I’m also with you that crypto needs some form of regulation, but imo crypto and stocks are not the same. If anything NFTs would be more like stocks/shares.

              One of the biggest hurdles, like you’ve mentioned, is that a good portion of the space is full of ponzis/scams. But there are a handful out there who truly care and are trying to pave the way and build up a new way to interact with others. I assure you there’s more to it than just scams and jpeg trading. It can be pretty neat when you see what’s possible.

              Sorry to take up so much of your time with my second ramble but you raised some good points. Cheers

              • @[email protected]
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                52 years ago

                I said it can’t be counterfeited.

                Lmao how big a problem are counterfeit tickets? Because Ticketek seems pretty happy with what they are currently doing.

                Sorry to burst your bubble but crypto & NFTs are never going mainstream. They are already past the peak, and failed spectacularly.

                • @[email protected]
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                  42 years ago

                  Never said it was a problem… Just saying its a better solution. That’s okay though… Saving this comment and will tag you during the next crypto bull run when the hype is back 😘

              • @[email protected]
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                22 years ago

                You need to teach people how to verify that their purchase for not counterfeited. Since the bar is not techological, and never will be.

                We had way back when a ‘web of trust’, that actually solved a lot more problems than crypto ever did. But people never understood it, so it never got mainstream adoption.

                If you don’t know a thing about stock market then it makes sense you could suggest NFTs for it, but you can actually divide shares into fractions.

                • @[email protected]
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                  2 years ago

                  I merely use nfts as an example because they are closer to what a stock would be than a coin itself. They are not the same though. I was not making that claim.

          • The dogspaw
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            52 years ago

            Possible but I really don’t see how nfts are any better than the current digital tickets system

            • @[email protected]
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              42 years ago

              Totally fair. I just see at as one of the many uses that are possible. Let’s day you couldn’t make it to an event and wanted to sell your ticket. It would be pretty easy to get the other users wallet address and make the exchange. Also, not all blockchains have high transaction fees. On the Solana network, for example, you can make the exchange for a fraction of a cent. It would cost you roughly. $0.0021 to make the trade.

              • @[email protected]
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                22 years ago

                I’m curious about this use case. It actually sounds pretty convenient, but it also sounds like a wet dream for scalpers since it makes it so easy to buy a bunch and resell for insane prices. On one hand, the price someone is willing to pay is the true value, so you could argue that the original seller wasn’t charging enough. But on the other hand, if scalpers buy up all the supply then they’re artificially increasing the price. I don’t really know anything about economics, I’m just guessing.

                In the traditional world of tickets, you could hypothetically prevent reselling by tying a ticket to a person’s id (not that anybody does this, but you could). But in the nft world you described where you can resell your ticket, is there any solution to prevent scalping?

                • @[email protected]
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                  32 years ago

                  Honestly, right now it’s like the wild west. The markets need a form of regulation. For that reason, I’d never recommend anyone get into nft trading without some serious research put into it. But as the space evolves, there will likely be thing put in place to solve this issue.

                  Also wanted to say I also very much appreciate your response. Most here have decided to attack me instead of actually holding an intellectual conversation. Hope you have a great day!

                • @[email protected]
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                  12 years ago

                  …is there any solution to prevent scalping?

                  Built-in price ceiling and verifiability. Resales could be limited or completely forbidden as well.

          • nickwitha_k (he/him)
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            12 years ago

            Crypto isn’t new. Bitcoin’s initial release was in 2009. Two versions of MS Windows have been released and EOL’d since then. Five Star Wars films have been written, filmed and released since then. Intel released all 13 generations of their Core i# processors since then.

            • @[email protected]
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              12 years ago

              Allow me to clarify… Crypto itself isn’t new… But the way in which we interact with it is new. All sorts of platforms, metaverses, etc… are still being developed through the bear market. These things take time to develop. Also, crypto usage is not exactly used by everyone right now, so I respectfully disagree with you.

      • @[email protected]
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        2 years ago

        The JPEG isn’t even on the blockchain for the majority of NFTs. It’s just a URL to a JPEG on a server someone else owns. If they take down the server, sell it, it gets hacked, the url scheme changes, etc someone is now the proud owner of a broken link lol

        • @[email protected]
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          42 years ago

          It’s just a URL

          If that’s the case it makes it even more surprising anyone would see any value in that.

  • @[email protected]
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    232 years ago

    I would see that crypto and blockchain scam as more like the last breath of Web2, given the monetization thing

    • @[email protected]
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      272 years ago

      No. Web2 is about user generated content (as opposed to the static pages of Web1) - crapto stuff hardly fits the bill. Like it or not, it really does belong to Web3 - which is about decentralization.

  • I Cast Fist
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    502 years ago

    Noooooooooo, you can’t like things that can evade stupid and needless monetization!

  • @[email protected]
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    1112 years ago

    Trying to claim the term “Web3” is a futile battle. It is already widely understood to mean crypto and blockchain. If I see a job posting that says the company is built on Web3, I know immediately that the job is built on scams and grifts without having to ask further questions. Web3 as a term is ruined already.

    For this to work it must be a different term than Web3. Maybe “Web 3.0” is different enough?

    • @[email protected]
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      222 years ago

      “Web x” is dumb marketing speak. It exists because people who use the phrase can’t intelligently talk about the actual underlying technology.

      • @[email protected]
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        12 years ago

        Abusing terminology, especially by marketers, is frustrating and cringe. But don’t underestimate the value in having a simple, shared term to describe a paradigm many things fit into.

      • @[email protected]
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        102 years ago

        I think it’s useful terminology, but only very generally and in hindsight. Web 1 is a pretty clear era in the 90s and early 2000s, characterized by simple static blogs and personal websites, and email. Everyone knew this would be big, but nobody figured out how, that was the dotcom bubble. Web 2 began with the rise of big tech companies like Google and Facebook in the late 2000s, it has been characterized by social media apps, centralized platforms hosting user created content, funded by targeted advertising and data mining. Web apps became possible and smartphones took over. Every product became a subscription service.

        I think we’re at the start of web 3, but it’s hard to say what that is yet. The big tech companies are crumbling and there’s increasing unrest at the old system of web 2. Fed up users are turning to platforms like this. There’s a lot of demand for crypto nonsense like NFTs. AI is changing the way we do everything.

        I hope that web 3 is the age of decentralization because that would be awesome, but it’s impossible to predict the future.

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)
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        22 years ago

        I mean… We are getting to a point where die off of a good chunk of the World-Wide Web due to bad actors and drying-up ad revenue isn’t implausible. The Web is only one part of the Internet.

      • @[email protected]
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        2 years ago

        Bro how you going to insult a whole instance

        Edit: oh I see why, you’re butt hurt about getting defederated.

        • Free Palestine 🇵🇸
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          42 years ago

          I mean lemmy.world does actually kinda suck. They block piracy communities, don’t know a shit about cyber security and can’t keep their servers online for more than a day before they go down. The only reason why people use lemmy.world is because they want to avoid lemmy.ml.

          • @[email protected]
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            102 years ago

            There’s several reason i dont use my lemmy.world login much at all anymore. But when I was there, it was because it was supposed to be “the right instance for me” according to the info I had access to. I knew nothing about all this lemmy/federated stuff (my only federation experience was with star trek… and federated architectural 3d modelling coordination programs like Revit/BIM360). So i joined the “right instance for me” and guess what? it kinda sucked. but it was frustrating. I just wanted things to work, but there was drama over hexbear and others, and half the time the servers were being ddos’d. So i jumped ship to lemmy.zip and discuss.online as a backup. Could just have easily been me this user was insulting, a few days ago. Insulting me would not have pushed me closer to switching instances, it would have just convinced me further that this place is just as, if not more toxic than reddit. I didn’t vote to de-federate hexbear, or any of the other recent de-federations related to piracy (insert legit argument about server hosted content vs. US law), and I was still trying to get my bearings.

            Just because lemmy.world does “kinda suck” doesn’t mean we should berate their users, thats antithetic to the entire idea of federated communities interconnecting this way.

            • Free Palestine 🇵🇸
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              32 years ago

              If Reddit can host a piracy community, why can’t lemmy.world do it? I made an account the day lemmy.world defederated with that community. After I noticed that I immediately deleted my account and switched to sh.itjust.works and lemm.ee is there as a backup. But you’re right, we shouldn’t hate on innocent lemmy.world users who don’t know any better. It’s not their fault that the admins are such morons.

              • @[email protected]
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                reddit.com is Reddit.Inc. with investors and lawyers and content curators and admins galore etc.

                Lemmy.world is idk some guy named ruud in a basement with servers or something idk. The point is they aren’t equivalent resource pools to protect them from legal issues.

                • Free Palestine 🇵🇸
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                  32 years ago

                  Right, but AFAIK he hasn’t even received any legal complaints. He could have done nothing, and only defederate when some shitty media company complains.

        • m-p{3}
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          They’re not defederated, only specific communities are blacklisted from syncing on lemmy.world.

          If they were, they wouldn’t be able to post in any lemmy.world communities or even comment on any posts of lemmy.world.

            • Zuberi 👀
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              42 years ago

              Normie land is reddit. If you can’t think critically then best leave

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                2 years ago

                How about you shut the fuck up, Edge Lord, And leave other people to do their own thing? Gatekeeping Lemmy is not critically thinking.

                • Zuberi 👀
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                  32 years ago

                  Web3 is a game changer. Try to escape the bubble of info you’re consuming on these pro imperialist instances

    • @[email protected]
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      52 years ago

      Hey, it has so many uses. I can’t name a good one that isn’t actively being made a scam, but so many uses. Wave of the future. Buy crypto, trust me.

    • newIdentity
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      152 years ago

      Web3 usually means it’s decentralized. So yes, in most cases it’s cryptocurrencies

    • @[email protected]
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      2 years ago

      Blockchain and crypto are both decentralized, which is exactly what Web3 is defined as. Just because they came before federated websites doesn’t mean the definition is exclusive to them. I would call “Web3” ruined, rather I would say that ActivityPub is the first great implementation of it.

      PS: The distinction between Web 3 and Web 3.0 is giving me some real USB 3.2 Gen 1 vibes.

    • @[email protected]
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      2 years ago

      The web was always decentralized though. In fact Web 3 brought more centralization. Everything is in the cloud now, which is really just two or three main data center operators. That’s my techno luddite take.