removed by mod
Do you even now that libertarian doesn’t just mean American libertarianism? Or do you think all socialism is authoritarian? There are large historical movements of anarchism and syndicalism to consider.
The word “libertarian” here refers to anarcho-communism-adjacent movements, not neoliberal shills as strictly American political lingo may have you believe. It were the anarchists who first introduced the term “libertarian”, and it were the neoliberals who appropriated it beyond recognition.
I guess Syndicalism and Mutualism don’t exist?
Found one
Libertarian originally (way back in the early 1900s) was always immediately followed by socialism to basically mean anarcho-socialism. The term was later hijacked to be shorthand small state capitalist and now closer to fascist.
ok an european here, country people suck ass. Homophobes and bootlickers, while also blaming minorities for their problem. They hear “left”, they say “totalitarianism”
Plenty of educated people and academic leftys live in the country, they just lay a bit low to avoid problems with the types of people you’re describing. And I hate to break it to you, but talking like that will only make things worse for you. Nobody wants to move away from their city conveniences, especially when they think the country is like a scene from The Hills Have Eyes thanks to people who don’t know what they’re talking about spreading negativity like you just did.
Look, I know who gets elected in the countrysides. Open right-wing populists. I’ll believe in these “educated intellectuals” (kinda classist to think you need to be educated to support leftism) when I see the polls turn away from right wingers
Country people led our (US) labor movement in the 1890s-1930s in conjunction with immigrant industrial workers in the big cities and longshoremen and others on the coasts. While there has definitely been a turning away from the left for the working classes in many places, the mere existence of historical working class socialist movements show that it is not an inevitable outcome, and with the proper analysis and action, can be reversed.
The country people of the 1890s are not the country people of today. Big city folk were a significantly smaller part of the population then, and the college educated population was miniscule. The ability to become educated is the largest relevant metric here. Now you can hit up khan academy and stanfords YouTube channel and get a world class education for free. Back then you had to be straight white wealthy connected. The excuses for ignorance are gone, for current country people.
But yes, these problems can and should be reversed, and done best communicating outside of the specific “lie-beral pedo demonrat vs racist Jesus warrior firearm creep” paradigm; placing things in terms of labor vs ownership class.
How many of these country peoples have access to broadband internet, how many hours do they have to work to support their family? They don’t and never had the time to get educated when they start working a job at 14 and work for the rest of their lives.
Ah. Irony
Solidarity across conditions is vital, and this includes understanding the needs of both city people and rural people. Its also important to keep perspective that at this point the majority of of people live in urban settings, and prioritizetion of resources should be mutually equitable
Solid point, thank you.
Rural people: Take us seriously!
Also rural people: Explain it to us like we are five!
Successful social movements requires messaging that can reach the lowest common denominator.
Examples:
LOCK HER UP
BUILD THAT WALL
STOP THE STEAL
You need to break everything down to Three Syllables so it can be rhythmically chanted easily.
LETS GO BRANDON
Successful social movements requires
people who are willing to make the effort to understand what’s going on. Rural people can do that. If they don’t want to, nothing you can say or do will change that. They can simply ask "what do you mean?
You cannot simultaneously think that you have to break down politics so that a five-year-old can understand it AND take people seriously as adults and why would anyone want to listen to you if you treat them like children?
American politics is on a downward spiral as each party tries to shorten and simplify the message to the point where there is no message except “vote (for) me, everyone else (is) bad”.
Explaining something to someone like their a child does not mean you have to treat them like a child??? What are you talking about
Everyone starts at the same place of understanding, zero.
Just because someone doesn’t understand something doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be taken seriously.
But people have to be willing to learn.
Rural people: We don’t want govt to mess with us!
Also rural people: please help us during natural disasters, give us tax breaks, and bring us basic necessities like hospitals!
There’s nothing wrong with explaining a concept simply, it anything being able to explain it simply shows true understanding.
The problem I see is a lot of rural folk don’t want you to explain it simply, they’re too prejudiced and dead set in they’re ways.
They may ask you to explain it simply but they do so to see you stumble so they can mock you.
deleted by creator
And I’m sure you’ve read all volumes of Capital without ever needing a dictionary or even to Google something.
As if reading Capital will help with anything
I was able to use a dictionary and Google (I did not go to college or university), are you saying rural people can’t?
we should all just go commit fully automated luxury gay space communism
or, failing that, we should at least aim for mostly automated anarcho-communism
Based :)
It sounds like you’ve been the victim of the misinformation campaign designed to make it seem like everyone who isn’t you is your enemy and that all people who hold certain beliefs are a certain way, when the reality is far from this
This is too americrule for me to understand
I’m sure no marginalization of the working class by the labor aristocracy happens in your country. But really, if it doesn’t, where are you and what methods do you use, cause we could use some help here, I’d say 40% of the people on all sides are completely incapable of empathizing with those outside their class.
For me it’s the part based on regions. I don’t even know what the “south” in America is like (or america in general tbh). I live in a relatively small country where the concept of “extreme rural” on the levels of a large country, does not apply either
I also got no clue what a “Yokel” is or why “inbreeding” is used as an insult for them.
That’s the type of overblown rhetoric and ignorant takes that we’ve come to expect from uneducated, inbred, welfare-taking red states.
I’m an anarcho-communist in one of the most secure blue states there is, but thanks for proving my point I made in another comment that liberals argue against their perceptions of peoples beliefs rather than their actual beliefs.
Haha, I guess I really should have added the slash s. Did not think it was needed, but here we go. Good job with the self-own I guess.
I spent longer than I care to admit trying to figure out if it was sarcastic or not before just deciding not to think about it any longer lmao
Man look at the rest of these comments, I’m sorry but it’s been nearly constant attacks on the working class since I posted this meme, I may have gotten a bit defensive. Cheers!
Sounds like you can dish it out but can’t take it back tbh. Did a librul make you post the meme?
ITT class is created primarily by cultural signifiers and not material conditions, pay no attention to the $100k trucks and the houses the rural elite own outright, it’s liberal renters in the city that are oppressing the yokels! I will be very condescending to make this point about Elite New York Liberal condescension
Nevermind that your cities are destroyed and paved over for the convenience of this exact group of rural people, nevermind that your neighborhoods are destroyed for their comfort, nevermind that you are derided as undeserving poor, that your services are defunded to appease these people, that they trash your homes as shitholes, that they advocate sending in the army when you protest these conditions, that they themselves march through your cities with guns to intimidate you, that they cheer the corporate takeover of your homes and advocate for lower taxes to reward the corporations that do so.
This is very clearly talking about the working class rural south who are not the same people driving $100k trucks, or if they are they’re deeply in debt to keep up what they see as necessary appearances - which is again a result of capitalist advertising and only works to keep these people poorer in the long run even if they have a nice expensive new toy temporarily.
I know the meme is that rural southerners all drive massive new trucks, but the majority of the rural south is extremely economically depressed and is 100% not going to respond well to liberal policies that do in fact come from urban areas with completely different material conditions. Even if the majority of people in both rural and urban/suburban settings do share a status of oppression from the capitalist class, their relationship to this oppression and the actual solutions to it often don’t look the same - something that the democratic party will never compensate for.
On the bright side many of these rural southerners see themselves as libertarians to a large degree. Even if their ideas of liberty have been poisoned by the modern right wing, I’ve found they will often respond well to (historically conscious) libertarian socialist ideas when presented individually and outside of their predisposed ideas of left-right politics.
Not to mention that in many southern states voter turnout is extremely low, and the reality is that even though our politicians are mostly garbage right wingers - the people here are simply being trapped by their economic situation and the policies enacted by the few only further entrench their inability to escape poverty.
At the end of the day the working class rural south is primarily suffering from a lack of class conscious education and economic policies brought on by their ignorance.
Of course there’s also a history of racism here that has historically been exploited by the right wing to further entrench itself, but again the further down the economic totem pole you go the more you find that white and black folks in the rural south suffer from this in much the same way, and they often know it.
This is very clearly talking about the working class rural south
It is very clearly not, neither in the OP nor the comments has anyone made this distinction, nor have they made the distinction in the other direction, that the capitalist oppressors of the urban liberal are not the same as the urban liberal themselves. There is no one in the thread connecting the status of the urban liberal to the rural poor conservative: i.e. that both are oppressed as a result of their lack of class consciousness
they’re deeply in debt to keep up what they see as necessary appearances - which is again a result of capitalist advertising and only works to keep these people poorer in the long run even if they have a nice expensive new toy temporarily
Then ppl itt should be comparing the trucks to student loans, but they’re not, they’re defending the trucks and the people they’re defending demand usury of the urban liberal
I can respond to your points if you’ll ensure to me that you’re arguing in good faith. I’m not inclined however to debate with someone who uses straw men and whataboutisms.
I will say that I agree with you in that both rural and urban folks suffer from a lack of class consciousness that prevents any meaningful change.
I would however point out that from my perspective the entire point of the meme and this thread is to connect the struggle of the rural and urban poor.
I’m not inclined however to debate with someone who uses straw men and whataboutisms
I don’t really care, I wasn’t debating and this entire thread has not inspired any confidence in me about good faith or solidarity. If you want to read my comments and take away your own conclusions about it you’re welcome to but I didn’t come here to change your mind, just as op didn’t come here to change mine.
I’ll point out that the person working the blue collar job with $100k in debt is poor, whether the asset they’re in debt over is a vehicle or an education.
People outta be looking up where the term redneck comes from.
It’s a shame that the people who currently wear that name with pride wouldn’t be considered rednecks at the origin of the term.
Who is this aimed at? It’s certainly not Bernie Sanders. That man does some fantastic outreach. The liberals I hear from usually want higher taxes on the rich to bring them back in line with older generations where CEO:lowest wage earner was a bit more equitable and they want to use that tax revenue to build up the lower and middle income earners and make the country great for everyone, not just the rich.
Mostly city kids arguing on the internet, I’d imagine.
removed by mod
Liberals are the biggest enemy to working class solidarity in my experience. Their smug superiority prevents any meaningful discussion with anyone who does not cowtow to their (mostly state and party line) beliefs. They shit on people to the left of them, and shit on people to the right of them, both in different ways, but with the same result of pushing away anyone who may have been on the fence.
No, they are absolutely not the biggest, unless you’re talking about classic liberalism instead of something like the Democratic Party. The messaging of the GOP and right in the US is far more opposed to solidarity than anything else.
There is far more participation in unions in Blue states. Union members are also more likely to be Democratic voters.
That said, the Democratic Party doesn’t push working class solidarity either, they’re just not as openly opposed to it.
The white conservatives aren’t friends of the Negro either, but they at least don’t try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the “smiling” fox.
-Malcolm XI have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negroes’ great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s “Counciler” or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
-Dr. Martín Luther Kung Jr.Yeah, I agree with that. But you can’t get any more solidarity with the wolves, that’s my point. There’s no reason to be hyperbolic about it since it just pushes people further away from realizing the points of these two men.
deleted by creator
