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Swedish government wants a back door in signal for police and ‘Säpo’ (Swedish federation that checks for spies)
Let’s say that this becomes a law and Signal decides to withdraw from Sweden as they clearly state that they won’t implement a back door; would a citizen within the country still be able to use and access Signals services? Assuming that google play services probably would remove the Signal app within Sweden (which I also don’t use)
I just want the government to go f*ck themselves, y’know?
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This is where Signal’s biggest problem shows. It’s centralized. Matrix is the better choice since it will be up to you if you decide to break the law if it’s banned, since there will still be plenty of servers you can reach.
yes. but transition takes time and my mom just installed signal last year. we will get there for sure.
I moved my whole family over to Signal specifically because it was so easy. SimpleX is easier than Matrix, imo, but when Matrix is equally as easy to set up as Signal, then we’ll see where things are.
The only big issue I’ve heard with Matrix is the current implementation doesn’t scale well, due to how servers are required to clone data (or something). I think they’re working on a fix, but it’s still not ready for prime time, I think.
SimpleX is not easy to setup either. There are two flaws I pointed out on GitHub over a year ago which have been ignored:
FLAW #1
Scanning a QR code invite with your camera app does not work. It has to be scanned AFTER you install SimpleX using the camera function of SimpleX.FLAW #2
Clicking on an invite received in Messenger confuses Signal because Messenger appends a question mark and some tracking code rubbish. SimpleX could easily strip the rubbish but it doesn’t. It simply fails.Simple ❌
The first one is pretty standard stuff, and it makes sense why you need to do it from the primary app and not from a third party one (like the camera). You would not want that other app digesting and sending off that invite link to the bowels of Google or whatever, which defeats the purpose of limited invites.
The second one seems pretty easy to workaround. I agree that perhaps their (Facebook?) Messenger implementation should account for the tracking data they tack on, but I’d hardly consider that a deal breaker when you can copy the invite link by hand.
I work in QA, and if I was a PM, I would flatly reject the first “flaw” as introducing weaknesses into the design and assign a low priority to the second due to an easy workaround and only affecting a single app.
Good point re first one.
Second one is a problem for most people. They just click on a link and expect it to work. They would have to figure out themselves what the workaround is because SimpleX says something like “bad invite” or “bad link”.
And even if I told them what to do, they don’t even know it is possible to copy, paste, edit, hit return.
I have about 30 activists using Signal whom I would like to migrate to SimpleX. I didn’t want to handhold each of them. I think you are overestimating general computer literacy out there.
Similarly I would like to migrate over 600 of them from Facebook into our own group in Lemmy however they are older people and a third of them have enough problems signing up to and navigating Facebook.
Adding to my frustration is their English illiteracy. “more than half of Americans between the ages of 16 and 74 (54%) read below the equivalent of a sixth- grade level.”
You know, now you’ve got me wanting to try my hand at submitting a fix for your second issue.
So to summarize:
- You copy or share a one-time contact link via SimpleX.
- The sender sends it.
- The receiver gets it.
- The receiver clicks on the link, and Meta adds a bunch of extra tracking nonsense onto the link.
- SimpleX throws an exception (“invalid link” or something, right?)
Is that how it goes, in your experience?
Exactly. You want my original github submission URL or is it best to send afresh?
Because that worked so well with the US government’s back door into telecom companies. I don’t think they got the Salt Typhoon group out of the system yet.
I did not expect this from Sweden.
They can’t deal with the influx of criminals due to mass immigration so they think this is the answer.
It seems like better immigration control would be a more direct solution to that…
The damage is already done. AFAIK they stopped the flood of immigrants. The only solution would be mass deportation of legal immigrants (with citizenship) that commit crimes.
Sweden is bizarre sometimes.
I’m sure there’s some exterior influence.
I most definitely did.
Wherever a service with encryption exists any government in the world thinks they need to be the special child with the access to the contents.
E2E with privately generated and held keys, have you published your PGP public key yet?
I wish PGP was easier to use. The barrier to entry is way too high for everyday use.
There’s a function built into Thunderbird to create keys, and I think publish the public cert directly to the MIT repo.
While I appreciate they have it, this is still rocket science when you describe it to an average user of mail. This stuff needs to be almost automatic and happen in the background for it to really be used by the masses. :-(
E2E with privately generated and held keys, have you published your PGP public key yet?
Exactly. You can’t stop secure encryption.
I remember in the very old days of the internet when only the US had strong encryption and thought it was some gotcha. They labeled it a weapon to prevent overseas export. Phil Zimmerman created PGP, lobbed the source into a book (protected under 1st amendment) then shipped it overseas.
If strong encryption exists and people want to use it, you’re just not going to be able to stop them.
Reminds me of the story of immigrants who tatooed the algorithm on their back. It was illegal to send them back.
Only Swedish backdoor I want is…
Ah the ol’ Kingsmen ending.
As ever, a “technical backdoor” for anyone is for everyone.
Stop this!
Would anyone accept if the government installed a door into your house that only they have the key to?! Just in case they need to come in and avoid kicking the normal door when I am not home…
Why swedes, why?
The current government promised they would be “tough on crime” but have been largely unsuccessful in reducing gang related criminality. Now they are trying to find new tools to get to the leaders of those gangs. Sadly, they don’t understand technology.
don’t kink shame
And I want a better future. Guess we’re both gonna be disappointed ain’t we
This is worrying but… how does this woman keep getting distractingly more beautiful with age?
I am begging you to stop gooning
removed by mod
Real gooners wire their eyelids open so they can’t look away
Totally agree. I would definitely not kick her out of bed for eating crackers.
“Every house should break open a wall and build a door only to be used by the police whenever they want to. It will only be used for your protection ;)”
With a universal key to every single door that is easily copyable and sharable, but not really possible to know if one bad cop decides to share it for $$$$
Exactly. We have to think about the children…
Its jot the parents responsibility to be apart of their kids lives and bring them up properly. That responsibility have been pushed onto the governments so that they can leverage it against peoples right to privacy
This is Sweden, they’re used to the government wiping their assets.
After the ability to bring them up got taken away by the big capital.
A rep for the Centerparti literally used this argument on the news today, they are very against it. It is just a proposal at the moment, even the military passovely criticized it as they use Signal for communication.
Hopefully that’s enough for it not to pass but you never know. If it passes that’s a new low.
That’s good to hear.
Best comment.
The Nazis are taking over Europe again.
You have no idea what your talking about
Increased censorship, increased support for military expansion, broad political support for genocide, increasing support for anti-immigrant policies, increasing government spying and authoritarianism, escalation against leftists by the authorities… along with more & more European politicians openly aligning themselves with Nazis.
What am I missing?
You can’t just use any unrelated topic to post this. Are you a Russian troll? If not, you’re in the wrong thread.
In what way is this unrelated? The increase in government authoritarianism across Europe is inextricably tied to their escalation in tech-enabled government authoritarianism.
I don’t understand how opposing the spread of Nazism across the globe isn’t at the top of everyone’s priority list. And I’m not sure why anyone would take issue with me calling it out, unless they’re sympathizers/collaborators.
This is completely unrelated to the topic at hand. You should look up the definition of nazism.
What definition are you seeing that excludes authoritarian surveillance by the state?
Nazis might do surveillance. But surveillance doesn’t make you a nazi. You’re confusing correlation with causation.
Right, good old troll. Now stfu
Murvelous counterpoint.
About as much effort as your worth
I understand that Nazi lives don’t matter. Makes me worth more than those who don’t understand that.
Idk it’s more that you’re a rambling idiot
Article with no trackers
The encrypted messaging app Signal is growing – now even the Swedish Armed Forces are using the app.
But the government wants to force the company to introduce a technical backdoor for the Police and the Swedish Security Service.
“If it becomes a reality, we will leave Sweden,” says Signal’s boss Meredith Whittaker, in an exclusive interview with SVT.
If the government has its way, the bill will be passed in the Riksdag as early as March next year.
The bill states that companies such as Signal and Whatsapp will be forced to store all messages sent using the apps.
Leaving Sweden Signal – which is run by a non-profit foundation – now states to SVT Nyheter that the company will leave Sweden if the bill becomes a reality.
“In practice, this means that we are being asked to break the encryption that is the basis of our entire business. Asking us to store data would undermine our entire architecture and we would never do that. We would rather leave the Swedish market completely,” says Signal’s head of Meredith Whittaker.
She says the bill would require Signal to install so-called backdoors in the software.
"If you create a vulnerability based on Swedish wishes, it would create a path to undermine our entire network. Therefore, we would never introduce these backdoors.
But don’t you as a supplier have a responsibility to support efforts against crime?
"Our responsibility is to offer technology that upholds human rights in an era where those rights are being violated in more and more places. In today’s digital world, there are very few places where we can communicate privately or whistleblow.
The Armed Forces critical Meredith Whittaker mentions the Chinese state actor Salt Typhoon’s 2024 attack on several internet service providers in the United States, where text messages and phone calls were leaked. She believes that a Swedish back door would open the door for the same thing.
"There are no back doors that only the good guys have access to.
The purpose of the bill is to enable the Security Service and the police to request subsequent notification history for persons suspected of crime. Both authorities were positive in the consultation round.
“The opportunities for law enforcement authorities to effectively access electronic communications are absolutely crucial,” Justice Minister Gunnar Strömmer (M) said earlier at a press conference.
But the Armed Forces are negative and recently the Armed Forces urged their personnel to start using Signal to reduce the risk of eavesdropping.
In a letter to the government, the Armed Forces writes that the bill will not be able to be realized “without introducing vulnerabilities and back doors that may be used by third parties”.
