- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
(not my OC nor my OP, just helping spread the message around:-)
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Seriously, if there’s one thing I don’t miss from reddit (I tell a lie, there’s dozens of things I don’t miss from Reddit) it’s the “Actually we’re too far gone, and everyone’s going to die in seven days because none of you jokers will buy a Tesla!~” nonsense
Funfact: Conspiracy Bullshit in the other direction is still Conspiracy Bullshit
Really? I knew it had gotten bad over there since the Rexodus but wow, it sounds rough. I’m so glad we are over here in The Good Place instead. Wait a minute…!? 🤡
Indeed, read the Exxon-Mobil report from the late 1970’s and early 80’s. They hit the nail on the head in regard to global warming. Somebody posted it on Lemmy.
Wait a minute… TIL that Lemmy existed in the late 1970’s!? 🤪🤡🤥🫠
Above a certain threshold there will be no discernible difference in the outcome to our civilisation.
The planet is fine. The people are fucked. G. Carlin was and is right.
No offense, but this is exactly the kind of active pessimism that this post is trying to combat. The only mindset that creates positive change is active optimism. In other words, hope for better and taking action to try and get there.
Note that this is not to be confused with inactive optimism. “Everything will just work out on its own”. That also doesn’t work.
Active pessimism is the most damaging mindset, though, because it actively drains others of their will to make things better. Feeling hopeless is real and understandable, I’ve been feeling it, too. Spreading it around and shutting down those who are trying to do better isn’t the way to process it, though.
Fucking hope police with their unscientific view that honest assessments and factual information are less important than optimism.
The OP’s tweet is wrong.
This is undeniable.
There are certain limits past which feedback loops kick in and after which our actions won’t matter.
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Carbon capture and nuclear winter won’t do a goddamn thing if the clathrate gun goes boom, and it is looking like it has:
And that single release, equivalent to two years of human output, is the tip of the spear.
Hope police want to argue that if we are calm about things and don’t point out the dire situation we’re in, we’ll somehow manage.
It’s the same argument as telling a passenger in a car driving towards a cliff at 50 mph, close enough that seconds matter, to not yell ‘CLIFF! BRAKE!’ Because it would demoralize the driver, and should instead calmly inform the driver that we might have some problems if they don’t stop applying pressure to the gas.
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Except that this is the argument that hope police give to people screaming to pull the brake. Not just to people black pilled.
Okay. But every minute we can delay reaching that threshold will be worth it.
To me it’s the same as the US democracy right now. Yes it’s far too late to see no ill effects and we are already facing the consequences, but every act of resistance to unlawful, immoral and unconstitutional orders slow them down, and with enough co-ordination may slow them down enough before Trump and the oligarchs become truly unstoppable.
For any issue that effects our world’s existence, stand boldly and take action. Don’t let the fear of the inevitability of it consume you.
STOP TELLING MY POOR ASS THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS ON ME
every bit of conservation i do in my life is undone by a billionaire in a weekend. I am done being blamed for it and having the responsibility thrown at my feet. At this point the best way any one of us can do something meaningful is if we all pull a Luigi. But these memes and articles that put ask the climate change responsibility on the lower classes are nothing more than billionaire propaganda
This is a well established climate-change-laggard argument. It’s the whataboutism logical fallacy.
Why should I take action, at great personal cost, when someone else is not taking action and will in fact benefit from my burden?
The Australian (and other) governments hide behind this same excuse. “Australia is just a small country, why should we take action when our CO2 production is just a small portion of that of other countries like China?”.
I mean it’s a good point, billionaires are worthy of great criticism, and Australia should be putting pressure on other countries, but at the same time we as individuals really do need to be taking action.
I do agree that polluting corporations use this narrative and I also find it infuriating. It’s particularly palpable with plastic producers, as in plastic pollution is not their fault, but the fault of consumers failing to recycle. It’s not the fault of consumers, it’s the fault of regulators, who are elected by voters who are also consumers.
In summary, the whole thing is fucked and everyone sucks, but you still have to tidy up your own shit.
GO TELL BILLIONAIRES ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE! I do not want to hear it anymore, it’s not my fault, it’s not my responsibility and I can do absolutely nothing to fix it. Stop telling poor people about climate change, that’s like yelling into a hole. Go after the ones doing it, and if you think telling you that billionaires and corporations are responsible for climate change is whataboutism, you’re brainwashed by the rich
How can we tell billionaires about climate change? By voting. Poor people vote.
They don’t give a fuck about voting. Make their life miserable everywhere they go at the least, bust out the guillotines would be ideal.
I can’t believe I have to say this but, us poor people need to elect representatives that will regulate the fuck out of billionaires. This might surprise you but plenty of poor people vote for representatives that will be mean to other poor people, rather than those who will regulate billionaires.
You still think you live in a country where those representatives exist or have a hope in hell of being elected. Bernie couldn’t even gain the support of one party, how would a progressive gain the entire country? You are far beyond the voting phase of things
Sadly I think you’ve missed my point.
It’s just a question of how bad we’ll have it at this point.
There are always best and worst case scenarios.
We are currently comprehensively losing the battle for 3C@2100 (which comes with increasingly harmful-to-devastating impacts in the intervening years and decades: future climate refugees will make the current not-far-off-a-London a decade seem like a picnic. A situation fascists will no doubt exploit).
It looks like the only way to prevent 4C plus and, a future Earth only described in science fiction, is mass civil disobedience.
But the UK government appears to be the worst in any civilised country in terms of squashing dissent, and most of the public appears to be more concerned with not being delayed on their commutes.
I don’t believe in the possibility of mass civil disobediance, especially in a context where most of people are either depolitized, either are voting massively for (wannabe) autocrats.
A bit sad how pessimistic everyone is. Renewables are currently becoming the most economic way to produce electricity and even states that do not care about the environment are investing in it. EVs are making progress as well. And while it is true that a lot of damage has already been done and we will face the consequences, I also feel that decarbonization is inevitable even from a economic perspective at this point. The speed at which this happens is variable though and determines how many people will die, this is why it is important to not be pessimistic and hopeless but to try steering things in the right direction.
Personally, the “renewable” energies aren’t making me hopeful. Because they are absolutly not renewable, they can’t be build without pollution because of the materials you need. And even so, climate change is not even the worst of our existential threats, there are many more, but strangely, people are only talking about climate.
Mind elaborating on the other threats?
Soil depletion, (micro)plastics in the water, biodiversity collapse, political instability, economical crisis, nuclear menace that is not a thing of the past anymore, sanitary crisis that will likely be worse than COVID, to name a few.
Soil depletion is solved by climate change by freeing up frozen arable land of countries that are basically under a blanket of ice for the whole year
Human history consists of us solving problems which then create more, bigger problems.
Agriculture was a trap.
Some might say also… The Internet?
True. The Middle East is the fastest growing renewable market after China and the Middle East already has very low fossil fuels and electricity prices. Of course they don’t have absurd tariffs on Chinese renewables.
The Middle East would rather sell their product to other people than use it themselves.
“Never get high on your own supply”
OPEC members have excess capacity. Saudi Arabia for example can produce an additional 3 million barrels per day without having to do anything or spend anything. So no, your assessment is wrong.
A bit sad how pessimistic everyone is.
Americans are pessimistic because we don’t have a functional democracy and our fascist oligarchs are too stupid to use their resources to fight climate change… And the rest of the world is pessimistic because the world’s most powerful economy and military has fallen to fascist oligarchy.
Nothing will change until we abolish the billionaires and replace our two party system with a modern multiparty parliamentary system with proportional representation
USAmericans have a religious attachment to fossil fuels that I can’t understand. “Drill baby drill” isn’t even economically viable and yet has become a call to prayer for many US politicians.
It’s rich people who want to keep being rich without risking going into a different thing.
Please stop attributing it to everyone, it’s really annoying
Who is voting for them and why do they win elections if there isn’t a substantial of people who support the idea? “Drill baby drill” isn’t a secret, it is what Republicans have been running on for over a decade.
Many USAmericans are pessimistic because we were finally taking a medium sized step in the right direction, and somehow half the country thinks that’s a bad thing
Great but I already do as much as I personally can handle. Would be great if society at large, e.g. laws, regulations, and big corps, could get on the same level.
Me: dusts off hands Installed solar on the roof, bicycling to work, updated the insulation on all my windows, and drastically reduced the amount of plastic in my life.
Tech Company Next Door: CONSUMES 70 MwH OF POWER FOR TWO YEARS STRAIGHT POWERING AN UNOPTIMIZED AI
Me: Begins flipping through a copy of How To Blow Up A Pipeline
Don’t blow up the pipeline, that’ll pollute the environment! Go for the pumping infrastructure, if you can knock out a pump you can decrease or even completely stop the flow of oil.
id guess pumps are more expensive to fix too. but also probably better guarded.
“guarded” is usually a fence and some cameras, maybe a locked door. Honestly an easier target than any buried pipeline. Kind of surprising we don’t see more ELF action on this front, except for the whole ‘get sent to jail forever to make an example of you’ thing.
That’s what this post is saying. Do YOUR part. That’s all you can do.
That’s all you can do.
It’s not “all” you can do, though. At what point does “eco-terrorism” turn into “justified self-defense?”
If eco-terrorism is what YOU can do, then that’s what you can do. I can’t do that, so I’ll do my part as best as I can. I can’t save the world alone, so I’ll just do my best.
If everyone, including corporations, did their best, we’d be in a better place.
I was going to present a partial rebuttal invoking politics but then I saw that this is [email protected].
Another positive is that we humans are highly adaptive. We’re already making a lot of changes towards renewables and improving the efficiency and reliability of our electric grids and other large infrastructure. Climate change definitely brings a ton of challenges with it (and some of the changes have already taken place) but I think it also gives us new opportunities such as longer growing seasons up North.
Some humans are more adaptive than others. The ones that have been sitting around with their heads in the sand aren’t going to survive.
its to late, its over, to prevent catastrophe.
its not to late to ensure we have a minimal catastrophe instead of a maximal catastrophe.
Actually, it’s too late, because those in power are accelerating in the wrong direction and we are less and less able to prevent them to do so.
And even so, given the current state of the society, even the “best case scenario” will be enough to make it collapse.
Yes, thats exactly the kind of useless, defeatest post and sentiment that the Op was talking about.
That’s the ticket! It’s always great when a random
idiotstranger on the internet agrees with you… (no, really:-P).At some point, defeatism is just realism, no matter the amout of hopium people try to sell to you.
Then do us all a favour and remove yourself, if you’re going to go full nihilist and hopelessness. If all you are willing to do is be inactive and continue to consume then we’d rather not have you around doing nothing but contributing to the problem.
OR
Join the rest of us and DO SOMETHING! Fight for something you want, do you remember that feeling? Have you ever known it or have you always been this pathetic? And if you truly believe that there is no hope then why not end it all by taking out some of these polluting fuckers with you?! Don’t get depressed, get radicalised!!!
NOT Uplifting
I strongly believe that there’s a regression of global society that will prevent humanity from surviving the next k/t level impact. I weakly believe that the climate catastrophe that we are headed toward currently will cause such a regression. I weakly believe that if we don’t take global action in the next 4-5 years, we will be unable to avoid a catastrophe of that scale.
I don’t think the current global leadership can be convinced through lobbying. Non-violent opportunities to replace the global leadership are dwindling. When/if only violent means remain, I will simply enjoy what wealth I have until I am extinguished by the Glorious Revolution as the Bourgeoisie scum I will have become.
We’re on course for our oceans to acidify and air to be unbreathable in many places before the end of the century.
It doesn’t get a lot worse than that
That’s why we do what we can to reduce it just like the post said! Wow!!!
As individuals we can try, but the average population is too selfish and isn’t going to stop until it’s too late
Between the likes of pollution, deforestation, wars, extinction of species to name a few…the only thing that could save this planet is humanity somehow becoming infertile.
I don’t know if it’s really selfish more people are a part of a system that is bigger than them that forces them into situations that have a negative impact on CO2 levels
Working a job that has low pay which probably force people to housing that is further from their work place, in America most cities don’t have a great public transportation infrastructure nor do they have alternative commuting options like protected bike lanes. This forces people to have to drive more.
The Return to Office bullshit has forced more cars on the road that were not there 4 years ago which is impacting CO2 levels
These are just 2 of many different things that the system has created that have put people in situations that make slowing CO2 levels more difficult.
Yeah I mean…we are all born into an already existing system. I guess we could all kill ourselves to help the planet, but that’s not really a great option for the self. I don’t have the power to change my country’s infrastructure as a singular being.
I guess we could all kill ourselves to help the planet
There’s a scene in the show Utopia where one of the antagonists is talking to a woman with her child at the bus station. She says they could drive but it’s better for the planet if she takes the bus.
He says if she wants to save the planet she should kill her kid, because raising a child in a first world nation is one of the most carbon-intense things you can do if you can’t afford a private jet.
The average population isn’t too selfish, the 1% is.
They wouldn’t have made it to the richest 1% if they weren’t so selfish, and now they have great power over us all, especially regarding the climate.
I think it’s both
When I worked in an office, the amount of people who would demand that the heating was cranked up as they were sat there in a cotton t-shirt instead of layering up.
The amount of people I know who have every light turned on in their house, the heating on all day throughout the winter, don’t bother with basically insulation, don’t turn things off at night, drive to places that are easily in walking distance etc.
I could keep going on forever with a list of small and basic changes such as products purchased, recycling, waste etc but I’d be here forever.
And yet all that pales in comparison to a CEO taking a private jet to work hundreds of miles every day.
And all that pales in comparison to the amount of CO2 released by the cargo ships and planes going all around the world every day to support our global economy.
Not trying to absolve the average Joe of their responsibility towards the environment, but like, there’s only so much actually in our control. And even if every single one of us 99%ers did everything in our power correctly, unless we see huge global systematic changes at the policy level (like we did with the ozone layer), it probably won’t be enough.
And all that pales in comparison to the amount of CO2 released by the cargo ships and planes going all around the world every day to support our global economy.
Yeah, and who’s fueling said global economy? Regular people browsing Shein ordering ridiculous amounts of plastic-wrapped shit priced at ridiculously low levels.
Carbon tax is the only solution because it would affect both the rich and the poor. Yeah sure a rich CEO wouldn’t feel a simple 2 or 3 fold cost increase to their jet-setting, but if at the same time their company makes a lot less money because people ain’t buying their pointless shit now that carbon is taxed and things are expensive? That CEO might just start flying less too. And we’d need way fewer cargo ships operating if people bought fewer goods. Oh and manufacturing might become more decentralized again once carbon tax from transportation is an actual cost to consider.
Thing is, nobody is going to want a carbon tax. We’d all have to be inconvenienced for that. We all take so much shit for granted. So we’re all fucked.
Yeah, and who’s fueling said global economy? Regular people browsing Shein ordering ridiculous amounts of plastic-wrapped shit priced at ridiculously low levels.
Sure, yes, average people play their part in the global economy. But I think the infinite growth mentality is a big part of it too, which again, falls solely on the CEOs.
Ultimately I do agree with your overall assessment, things do feel kinda hopeless right now, because it just doesn’t seem like very many people in a position to make a difference are really doing anything.
Would that even matter? As in e.g. the timing and speed - like those still alive would keep going for quite awhile, perhaps all the more so given increasing technology, especially if the effects of aging were to be if not eliminated entirely then pushed back even a little bit more, or cancer, etc.
There’s a clear difference between being in big trouble and being completely screwed. If we can avoid the extinction of humanity and go with catastrophic disasters and famine that eradicates vast majority of the population, we should totally do it.
Ideally, we would avoid all that, and go back to the good old days. Every small step towards that goal is worth it, although taking longer steps is highly encouraged.
We couldn’t get people to wear a mask or get a shot when a disease was killing millions in the open.
We definitely can’t get people to change their behavior over climate change.
That’s because billionaires like Robert Murdock own all our media and they use their power to push disinformation to undermine class solidarity and democracy.
If we want to save the world then we have to get rid of the billionaires asap as they are the greatest threat to democracy.
Then maybe don’t leave it up to them. This OOP refers to a goal, not a process.
the two greatest things you can do for climate change: Live vegan, and not have children.
Actual greatest thing you could do for climate change: destroy the US military industrial complex. Not only is it a massive polluter, it also enables the capitalists to maintain their ability to extract fossil fuels and other resources around the world.
Quit it with the anti-human shit. If we’re not saving the environment for us what’s the point?
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Billion, with a “B”.
And no. We could also discover how to travel into alternate realities instead, or perhaps wake up from The Matrix? :-P
There are also a variety to ways to live differently, like a biodome even if partial. Many solutions working together rather than one singular one “saving” the day.
And this is Uplifting News - which is what it’s all about!:-)
I meant “Billion”. Pardon me.
All it takes is one rank fart to ruin the Biodome idea.
But I’m glad to be living during this time frame, however.
If a biodome might be needed for like 6-12 hours in the hottest part of the day for the sake of survivability and efficiency in heating, compared to being needed 20-24 hours a day, then I could begin to see the value of OOP’s words. Better yet, if some other technology could bring that timeframe down to a mere 3-6 hours (I’m imagining maybe like a yearly average, so longer some days and shorter on others), and then some other technology still further down to 1-3 hours, then collectively rather than one single approach could help to reduce rather than eliminate the need for such.
Perhaps we’ll live like in the Dune movie, with everyone wearing a personal stillsuit (aka the “biodome” is personal)… such that a fart primarily affects the one doing it, which at that long starts to actually convince someone to change their diet? 😉
“Ruin” itself is a word with nuances.
The fart joke was a reference to the “Biodome” movie with Pauly Shore lol but I like your still suit idea
I know why we’d want to delay the inevitable with these efforts, and who knows what we’d be capable of in a few hundred years. It’s just interesting to think about future proofing mankind, as in taking to the stars for refuge or living in domes.
Also profound to ponder if mankind is really worth saving.
Also, it’s quite surreal that mankind has only been around for a few hundred thousand years, but only the last few hundred in the industrial age is apparently enough to kill a planet that’s been around for billions of years and went through 5 extinction events. It just seems like the planet is more resilient than its life forms and it’s all just panic.
Damnit, you just made me realize that my true goal in life was to wear a stillsuit (or maybe it was to be closer to Timothée Chalamet?😊)
