In before Musk says “You think the government uses COBOL?!”
I don’t think the government uses COBOL. I know the government uses COBOL.
It doesn’t matter what I think or know, the government uses COBOL.
Jesus fucking christ the interns who have neither seen nor heard of COBOL have also not encountered the concept of a sentinel value used as a fallback/default.
What do you expect? most of the guys in “DOGE” weren’t even alive on 9/11 I’m a bit surprised that they still have something in COBOL, maintenance probably costs o fortune, good luck finding young COBOL devs
I’m ready to learn COBOL. I will take up the torch. If you know good places to start, let me know. Last time I looked into it it seems way more involved than running stuff like Python, Java, and C.
I see, you want that that Lamorghini, well if you really want udemy is always a good start. Personally the difficult part for me when learning a new programing language is not resources, it’s the motivation to keep do it and I usually need a real project to work on. (10 years + dev)
Usually you find on github “awesome-XYZ” repos (ex: awesome python, awesome c, awesome go), but for cobol, most of the projects are dead
https://github.com/loveOSS/awesome-cobol?tab=readme-ov-file#email
https://dev.to/mdchaney/cobol-dates-may-20-1875-and-disinformation-5ggh
- There is no “date” data type in COBOL. Dates are stored however the programmer wants, but usually numeric character strings
- There’s no “default” date, even if there were such a data type
- Even if there were a default, 1875 would be a bizarre choice
That (obviously) doesn’t mean Elon Musk is right. It just means that this explanation of it being some magical COBOL epoch value is wrong. What’s more likely is that the Social Security database is very old and has a lot of iffy data in it.
My guess is that it contains everybody who has ever had a social security record, including all the duplicates, all the typos, and everything else. At some point there were probably hundreds of thousands of records that were transcribed from paper into a computer, and it was considered safer to keep the iffy data and make a plan to deal with it later, vs. remove someone from the database who should legitimately be there.
I would also imagine that the systems that take the records out of the DB probably have filters in place that remove the (known) bad records before they’re used.
There is no “date” data type in COBOL, but there is in DB2, where the data would be saved, unless they are on an older VSE OS and data is still saved in VSAM files. Many still use 12/31/39 as a default max date even though OS/400 systems can handle up to year 9999 now (we still use 12/31/39 in testing where I work). It could be someone arbitrarily started using 1875, and others copied that.
I keep hearing that gen Z is actually pretty shit with understanding things outside GUIs.
And now I’m watching it actively destroy my country.
Less of a generational problem, more of an educational one. Selfish, badly educated grifters that got pushed into high offices can be of any age. Musk also didn’t recognize SQL when he looked at it, which is arguably even more funny.
I’m gen z, I use Vim, and I voted for Kamala. Guess all those VS Code kids voted Trump.
I get this feeling too, but then again can we blame them? With all the locked down tech these days you really have to get out of your way to learn. And in most cases it works well enough. Whereas people growing up between lets say the 1970-2000s had to muck around with their tech to get it to work. Thus learning the intricacies while using it.
How dare you question the wisdom of Big Balls and his peers
Dangerous like an epileptic deer with 15 pairs of scissors taped to its head and body
LMAO watch the US be saved by an inability of Muskys frat bois to understand COBOL
2016-2020 was the age of too stupid to break everything. Now we’re staring down the barrel of “The files are in the computer?” But the entire US government is the computer.
I dont even program and i could’ve told them it was probably a placeholder or default value lol “durrrrrr lot of people in this database were born at the exact same time on the same day in the same year that predates electronic databases, gotta be fraud!!1!1!11”
More likely they nuke it due to that lack of understanding.
The actual payment system stops payments automatically at age 115 and requires manual verification to restart. The database that is being reported is not even a report of who is getting paid.
This is just dramatic, public evidence of the arrogance and incompetence of DOGE from down to his racist younglings.
For a while, I thought they would at least be good at technology. This episode shows that even that is not true.
How he chose this elite group of chuckleheads is an eyebrow raiser. Other than racism, they seem to have no credentials at all. I mean, on brand for this administration I guess.
115 sounds too late imo, payments should need manual verification way earlier
There are other verification procedures in place as well. This is something like a failsafe.
They’re going to need lots more people going around talking to old people because you don’t want to rely on public records
Too bad he let go of all the employees that would be responsible for that manual verification.
If that’s what you want they should be staffing up instead of firing.
They dont care they want to take all the ss money its that simple
Found the link to the SSA page describing the policy which took effect in 2015.
Teenage programmers can understand legacy code. These ones didn’t. Don’t dis teen coders.
I don’t know how many teenage programmers you have interacted with recently, but they are generally just learning the basics, learning core concepts, experimenting, etc…
There is a huge gap between making small, sometimes very cool and creative even, projects and understanding a giant legacy codebase in a language that is not taught anymore. I mean, even university grads often have trouble learning legacy code, much less in COBOL.
You wouldn’t say your average teenage cook could make a gourmet meal for a house of 50 people 😅 not a dis, just they haven’t had the time to get to greybeard level yet
How many teens you think can actually read and understand legacy languages like FORTRAN and COBOL? Let alone a complex codebase written in them?
I studied COBOL a bit in college and it’s not exactly hard to read short snippets if you understand other languages, but good luck wrapping your head around anything remotely complex and actually understand what it is doing without having someone who understands the language. Hell, 15-20 years on and multiple languages later, my eyes still cross trying to read and grok COBOL. The people supporting those old code bases get paid well for a reason …
Learning to COBOL is not itself that hard.
Understanding decades of “business” logic is.
It isn’t WHAT it is doing, it’s WHY it is doing it that makes these systems labyrinthian.
Also afaik they don’t get paid that well which is part of the problem.
The issue isn’t inherently age it’s just time and experience, understanding different coding patterns and paradigms that have changed over the years etc. Even someone who’s been coding every day from ages 14-20 can’t have the same knowledge and experience as someone who’s been working with software since the 90s or earlier. Granted, there will always be brilliant people who even when lacking experience are more talented and skillful than maybe the majority, but that is uncommon. I’m only in my late 20s. And I remember in college there was a huge diversity of skills, from “are you sure this career path is really a good idea for you?” To “holy hell how did you do all of that in one hackathon?” But even for those really smart folks, they aren’t just going to inherently understand all the different ways to organize and structure code, all the conventions that exist, and more importantly why those methods and structures exist and the history that informed them. I’m not saying you need on the ground experience (although, I’d say many people do, as many people can’t really internalize things without direct exposure), but there’s just not enough time, literally, in the handful of years that is childhood and teenage years to absorb all that history.
Anyway, what I’m getting at is that, yes, I agree that the problem isn’t inherently about being teenagers but I do think it’s a valid criticism that it’s kind of ridiculous to have such young folks leading this kind of project given it’s literally impossible for them to have the same amount of experience as software vets. It’s also valid that young people are capable of seeing things in very new ways, since they aren’t weighed down by al that history. But that’s why diversity is useful especially for such a monumental project as this.
The question is, how do you not know the age of a recipient? I feel like that’s kinda required to know, no?
There are many people who were born in developing nations during times of war who do not know their exact age. They usually do have an idea of a range though.
1875 has never been an epoch anywhere, on any system. 1970 has. 1900 has. 0000 has. But 1875? No, it hasn’t. And no where in the cobol spec does 1875 appear.
This is just propaganda. He already does enough wrong, you guys lying about it just makes everything else you say suspect.
“You guys are wrong about the epoch in COBOL and it’s really making me believe this ketamine fueled Nazi, shame on you” lol you’re ridiculous
Why not focus on the Nazi bit? Instead of lying about the 1875 bit? Are you lying about him being a Nazi?
Apparently ISO 8601:2004 doesn’t exist?
That doesn’t mention 1875. Wikipedia was edited two days ago to add that in, it doesn’t appear in the original standard at all.
The system obviously needs improvement and like it or not Trump and Musk are the first to actually try to improve it.
Musk just wants to dismantle any safety networks, so people will work for him for peanuts…
You do realize that what you are suggesting (Musk trying to destroy social security) just isn’t what is happening in reality. Anyone that has been receiving SS still is, still receiving the same amount they historically have, and it has all been verified.
i don’t know shit from a sandwich and I know COBOL is old shit
now your hezlth records sare commodity
