Israel has sparked global outrage after dropping leaflets over the besieged Gaza Strip, warning Palestinians to either cooperate with its forces or face forced displacement or eradication. The messages, written in Arabic, carried explicit threats, including the chilling statement: “The world map will not change if all the people of Gaza cease to exist.”
The move, condemned as a psychological warfare tactic, has intensified concerns over Israel’s military campaign in Gaza, with many seeing the leaflets as an open admission of ethnic cleansing.
The threats also reference a so-called “Trump plan”, aligning with recent remarks by US President Donald Trump. who suggested the mass expulsion of Gaza’s population to neighbouring countries. The posters featured images of Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is facing accusations of war crimes and crimes against humanity and wanted by the IC
I’ve seen a couple of news articles saying the U.S. is setting itself up for another terrorist attack, but a couple of Americans have told me that’s not the case and they’re not worried about it… anyone have any insight into this they can offer?
I’ve seen a couple of news articles saying the U.S. is setting itself up for another terrorist attack
But why would the trump administration want an excuse to declare martial law?
Interesting. Thanks.
They still don’t really know why 9/11 happened, they still believe the ‘they hate us for our freedoms’ line.
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Why do you think it happened?
Essentially blowback for decades of US military adventurism in the region. Bin Laden’s theory was that an attack that’s big enough would cause the US government to overreact and overreach, imploding the American Empire because Americans wouldn’t accept their civil liberties being taken away and Americans coming back from abroad in coffins.
Obviously Bin Laden was wrong about how much Americans would just be ok with everything the government ended up doing, and didn’t achieve his stated goal.
Maybe Bin’s plan will work now (even if he’s not around to see it), with how crazy Trump’s been acting? That’s actually a question.
In some ways it is potentially happening, but this is definitely not the timeline he had in mind, and you could blame macro trends like the rise of China instead.
If Bin Laden hadn’t done anything, millions in the Middle East wouldn’t have been killed, and the US would still be on its current trajectory.
Late to the thread but:
If Bin Laden hadn’t done anything, millions in the Middle East wouldn’t have been killed, and the US would still be on its current trajectory.
Not necessarily. The rise of Trumpism is inextricably linked to the war on terror and the rise of American chauvinism that followed. Look back on the attitude of Americans post-9/11 and you’ll see a lot of the proto-fascism that develop with time and helped produce Trump 1 in 2016. 9/11 gave America PTSD that it has never really recovered from.
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They cant leave through Israel, or by the sea, and only through rafah if they get humanitarian approval as a medical patient. So they cant leave regardless of what the stupid leaflets say. So its just intended to terrify Palestinians. AKA terrorism.
It’s intended to justify killing them when they don’t leave. AKA genocide.
I’d been thinking up to now that its the land the Israelis want, but if that were the most important thing to them, they’d be letting Palestinians leave the area. The fact that they wont let them out means they mostly want every single Palestinian dead, and stealing the land comes second. Thats a pretty striking level of pure evil.
Not to worry, Palestinians. Once Israel and the US turn Gaza into a gaudy magaland theme park, I’m sure Trump and friends will welcome you back with open arms. /s
Serious question. Is leaving an option? Is there some kinda line they can go stand in that will relocate them to another country?
Feels like that scene in Independence Day.
“What is it you want us to do?”
“DIE. DIEEEEEEEE!”
American here, I’d be willing to welcome Palestinians and Israelis into my country.
We have plenty of room for both.
Yeah well, the half that’s in power don’t want immigrants. I doubt Trump is going to welcome them.
Do be fair, neither side wants immigrants.
Both sides just want to enrich the ruling class as much as possible for as little effort as possible.
I was more referring to the masses of people than the political parties. I’d agree that neither party actually represents its constituents anymore. Only money interests.
No, the borders to Egypt and Israel are closed. There are limited exceptions for medical treatment in Israel. Egypt let in people with the right paperwork (typically by paying a bribe) at the beginning of the war.
It’s very unusual for people not being able to flee from a warzone. Not giving them the option to leave is against the convention on refugees.
The Israeli navy makes it impossible to leave by boat.
Israel could allow Gazans to flee to the West Bank, but so far haven’t done so. Egypt also isn’t interested in opening the border so far, for fear of the refugees not being able to return at a later date. Egypt is afraid of another terrorist group in its country, especially one that threatens the peace with Israel.
But hey, we sure showed Biden with that protest vote. Way to go team. Instead of using continued pressure to bend the party that at least listens somewhat, we now gave Gaza the dictator who gives 0 fucks. High five. /s
Update: Complain all you want about this take. I’ve been a lefty union member all my life and I got so much shit for saying Biden would not be as bad as Trump for Gaza. I got called Blue MAGA, tankie, and other trash from my own side because I saw it for what it was. Netanyahu wanted Trump to win for a reason. Now y’all want to justify your handing the country to Trump to make a point or give me shit for calling it out. Fuck you right back. I voted Bernie in the past, Biden was never my first choice, but pretending voting for a no chance in hell fake like Jill Stein was a possible alternative is bull shit. We live in a winner take all representative Republic. Until the system is changed, every election is the lesser evil vote. In the mean time, you don’t hand the country to the oligarchy’s mascot and his fascist mob. The people of Gaza will be paying even worse, but now add Ukraine, LGBTQ+, Federal workers, unions, people of color, immigrants, and everyone making under $150,000 a year to those who will suffer worse. We needed to come together to stop Project 2025, but we had to let the perfect be the enemy of the good like always.
We spent over a year using every means of pressure we had to bend the party and all we had to show for it was more billions for Israel. Nothing would have changed if we voted for the party that spent the last year ignoring our demands.
Nothing would have changed? Hahahahaha. Well you got your change. Congrats on creating even more dead Palestinian children. You seem weirdly proud of having their blood on your hands.
So almost until Biden left office, Israel was killing an average of 100 to 300 Palestinians a day. What do you think would have magically changed, if Biden had continued into a second term, or Harris had taken over who had vowed to continue Bidens policies?
You claim the Democrats would have suddenly ended their policies of over one year of genocide, despite stating the opposite. Can you please point me to the evidence that this would have happened?
As @[email protected] pointes out, Biden tried to fo for ethnic cleansing in 2023. When that met the resistance of the surrounding countries, he decided to escalate to murdering as many Palestinians he could get away with without sparking a revolt in the US.
The only difference in policy is that Trump is speaking the quiet part out loud.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/01/08/biden-gaza-restrain-israel-hamas-ethnic-cleansing/
The ceasefire is still ongoing, despite Israel’s provocations. I know you’re horny for more genocide so you can feel good about being “right” about the lesser evil, but so far the number of dead children has dramatically decreased since Biden was in office.
but so far the number of dead children has dramatically decreased since Biden was in office.
The reporting on it has certainly decreased, but I don’t think either you nor I can say this is true with any amount of certainty.
Besides, “Israel is playing nice now that they have their ace in the White House” isn’t really the big win you make it out to be. Biden continued shipping armaments, Trump is doing that and more as well as actively making plans with Netanyahu for the expulsion and destruction of Gaza.
The only way we were ever going to fix this from our side of the ocean was by putting a warhead on Netanyahu’s forehead but that was never going to happen with either choice.
Israel isn’t just playing nice, the ceasefire is ongoing. Hamas wouldn’t play along if it was all fake. Every day Gaza isn’t being turned into rubble is a win and lives are being saved.
Yes, Israel is doing this because they want to help Trump. That doesn’t mean the ceasefire isn’t a good thing.
Israel will face justice for its crimes, but that will happen regardless which demon gets elected president of the Great Satan.
Israel will face justice for its crimes
When and where?
when
When the US can no longer protect them. The empire is clearly in decline.
where
In the very land they stole. The Resistance was not defeated, after all.
Instead, you got the party that sent 2000 lbs bombs and wants to eradicate the people of Gaza so he can build some casinos.
the party that sent 2000 lbs bombs
That would be both of them. By June 2024 Reuters was reporting that the US had sent Israel 10,000 of the 2000 lbs bombs.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
Biden was already sending loads and loads of bombs for over a year
Biden floated a plan to displace all the Palestinians in Gaza too, but he was unable to get any Arab country to go along with it.
Trump will face the same obstacles.
If you bomb a refugee camp with one 2000lbs bomb or two 1000lbs bombs, will it make any practical difference for the women and children who have their bodies blown apart or burn to death?
You’re arguing against a straw man. They’ve been using 2000lb bombs the whole time anyway.
Stop apologising for genocide.
Centrists have no other policy. They can’t.
I wonder why we don’t hear “genocide don”? People wouldn’t shut the fuck up for like a year with the “genocide Joe” shit.
I tried explaining what you’re saying to those people dozens of times - Trump would be same or worse in Gaza, this is not the election to “teach the dems a lesson” with, and Trump will be far worse on a dozen other very important issues. Barely got one reasonable response, usually just “so you love gennercide!!” Either shills for Trump or very stupid.
Tell me what Biden or Kamala would have done different? Remember all the red lines that functionally did nothing to US policy?
It was under biden that, we estimate because we can’t know, that ~500,000 gazans died. It was under biden that we continued to send bombs to israel even as Israel pushed the entire population into a concentration camp next to egypt.
Gaza was already under a dictator. Way to go Biden and Kamala, instead of giving a single fuck about your electorate loudly told you, you sucked the teet of pro-israel donors and it lost the election.
You fucks keep spouting this drivel but are weirdly quiet about what’s happening currently. Sure, many more Palestinian children are going to die because of your tantrum but if you just keep throwing the tantrum maybe you won’t have to look at the blood on your hands.
Because what’s currently happening is ONLY possible because of that Biden and Harris did. It’s liberals that were quiet about genocide occurring because their preferred flavor of fascism was doing it, and you want to talk about blood on your hands?
You are literally saying “you’re being quiet while throwing a tantrum”. Which is it, am I being quiet or noisy? Or is this some sort of weird quiet tantrum?
Yeah, look at how effective your strategy of running from responsibility has been. You and the DNC’s policy of blaming progressive voices IS what lost them this election. How about you keep doing that louder. Maybe you can go strike a deal with the Republicans to level just half of Gaza. Because that’s what Democrats in Congress are currently talking about. They are pissed, not because they lost, but because their constituents are calling them demanding they do more.
Tell me what Biden or Kamala would have done different?
This question was not answered.
It won’t be, because libs don’t have an answer for this, they just want a more polite genocider in office
For starters you can see what Trump claims to be doing different from what was being done:
Continuing weapons shipments haulted by Biden
Putting an actual literal unapologetic genocide advocate in charge
I do indeed miss the days when headlines talked about the POTUS cussing out Netanyahu, which actually happened at several different events. It’s no secret that Netanyahu showed favoritism to Trump, and it doesn’t take a fucking rocket scientist to know why.
For starters you can see what Trump claims
You believe what trump claims? Is it because he also supports genocide? And why do pro-genocide centrists always think that “Oh, You think trump is better?! HUH?!” is some sort of a fucking gotcha? We warned you that if you didn’t abandon the genocide that is the only thing any centrist has ever been capable of truly loving, YOU WOULD LOSE. You did, and you’re blaming everyone to your left for being able to read the writing on the wall.
I do indeed miss the days when headlines talked about the POTUS cussing out Netanyahu
Conveniently behind closed doors where it doesn’t matter. If we had “behind the scenes” biden instead of the biden that actually exists, we might not have trump again.
Trump is talking about seizing Gaza and make it into resorts and we still get “JORR BIDEN”.
And they apparently think Ukrainian children are worthless.
I’ve heard very little about the Ukrainian genocide. Oddly these people so upset about Gaza never noticed that Trump would eagerly enable Russia to “finish the job”, as Trump said about Gaza.
Where are you getting this? You’re the only one mentioning Ukraine.
Yes we understand that it’s very important to you that no one mentions any of the side effects of your behavior. Your tantrum about Biden taking the hardest foreign policy stance with Israel in decades not being enough needs to justify the fact that you’re all in here gloating about how much harm you were able to cause. More genocide in more places. Your goal of more genocide, in more places, happening faster has been achieved, you evil pricks.
There’s really no reason to give genocide supporters like you the benefit of the doubt at all. Even if you’re just a cry baby with no understanding of foreign policy, it’s not a good enough excuse for the blood on your hands anymore.
the hardest foreign policy stance with Israel in decades
Oh christ. Get new ridiculous lies.
Biden decided it was more important to send billions in weapons to israel as they committed genocide than to listen to protestors, so much so that he thought it was worth losing their votes over it. Harris continued with the same rhetoric. You’re ignoring over a year of things getting worse and worse in Palestine while insisting that somehow the democrats ignoring voters during an election when they need the votes are somehow going to make things better when they don’t need the votes. You’re admonishing people protesting against genocide in order to defend a party that has authorized billions in weapons to israel as they’re committing genocide, with Biden even bypassing congress to do so. Think about it.
Idk who would call you a Tankie for saying Biden is better, the Tankies support Trump.
On Lemmy.ml is where that one was flung around.
STOP FUXKING PATTING YOURSELF ON THE BACK FOR FUCKS SAKE. All you’re doing is driving a wedge between people who oppose the genocide. Do you support the genocide? Because shit like this makes it seem like you love it because you get to say “pfft. Well this is on those people over there and I was sooo right.”
Why is this so fucking important to you? Shut the fuck up with this. Every single time there is horrifying news about Gaza. You pull out the blaming stick to say “this is the fault of thise people who didn’t like the genocide!” Shut the fuck up this isnt about you and how fuxking right your vote was.
Do something better. If you actually give a shit. Because it’s very possible you don’t and are more concerned with labeling yourself as having been right and washing your hands of the situation
For fucks sake
Stop driving a wedge into people who drove a wedge.
Quit calling out the bullshit that led us here.
If you can’t stop aiding genocide when you have the legal authority to do so, you probably won’t do anything for democracy.
…and here we are
Uno reverse take: not voting help the tangerine terror who will level Gaza
Gaza was already leveled prior to the 2024 election. On Gaza, no vote mattered. Lip service or the honest cruelty of it all. There are plenty of reasons to hate trump (this still being one of them), but if you think any US president was gonna actually put a stop to this…lol
You would have preferred a non-US president?
I would prefer that the US president follow the laws and the will of the people
Edit: and in the instance of Gaza, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy_Law
It’s neat watching centrists get mad that trump is implementing their only policy.
Are you interested in others being able to participate in democracy or are you only interested in commanding others to vote for your preferences?
Think only having these two unreasonable options to choose from is unfair and not a real choice? Me too, thanks.
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
Several states put ranked choice balloting up for a vote in 2024, all of them voted it down except for Alaska which was a referendum on the system already in place.
https://www.npr.org/2024/11/08/nx-s1-5183210/nonpartisan-primary-ranked-choice-voting-results
Portland attempted it at the city level and saw a 20% drop in voter participation on the ranked choice candidates for mayor and city council. People could not be bothered.
We had a vote on that in the UK too.
Again, shot down. Both sides put aside their differences and put full effort into killing that. Apparently it was too expensive (“we need incubators, not a fair voting system!”) and too complicated.
We will never have real democracy. They’ll never let us have it and anybody powerful enough to overthrow them won’t allow it either. It’s just wrong lizards until one of them does away with the farce.
100% - we need to change the system so we don’t only have two choices. Third parties winning will not happen till the system of voting is changed. That takes work outside of elections.
You sure rattled the monkey cage with this one
end the party that at least listens somewhat,
That’s funny, everyone, everyone know they don’t give a fuck what we have to say. They were willing to lose an election before listening to what we had to say. It was able time people held them accountable for refusing to represent our demands. Liberals refusing to listen gave us another round of Trump
I find your windy post confusing, but I think the issue is that Biden is not “better” than Trump on Gaza, just possibly “less bad.” And they are much closer to one another on this issue than most others. Every election you see the two parties compete to show who can bow down to Israel the most.
Following through on this threat would likely result in another Arab-Israeli war.
Not with the US support that Israel has now.
Israel always had US support. The difference now are just words.
Mask completely off now. It’s good old Ethnic Cleansing time, with our full and enthusiastic support.
8/10 Israelis openly support the ethnic cleaning of Palestinians and Gaza via Trump.
https://www.newarab.com/news/8-10-israelis-support-trumps-gaza-ethnic-cleansing-plan?amp
How’s all the progressives feeling about Genocide Joe and Kamala now?
How do you feel about the two party system? Do you think it’s representing the populace very well?
Stop deflecting. Progressive purity testing has resulted in the death of US democracy and a dictatorship. You get what you deserve.
Democrats dropped our pushed out progressives in favor of non trump republicans just like in 2016. But yeah totally only the progressives fault
Well I’m of the opinion that fElon hacked the voting system anyway. I wouldn’t be surprised if the POTUS has been rigged for the last 50 years.
So that’s your theory but still blaming progressives for the dnc inhiblity to actually win? (or do anything that isn’t move right?)
lol. The progressive purity testing is intolerable and insufferable.
They started this, trump is finishing it, they wouldn’t have done anything different
I feel like this is not functionally different from what they did. I feel like, if this was such a fucking important election that MAYBE Biden and Kamala should have changed policies on Gaza rather than continually sending aid, weapons and bombs to genociders. That if they truly believed their rhetoric then maybe they should have actually listened to the base that told them aiding genocide would lose them the election.
Yeah, I’m pretty fucking pissed at Biden and Kamala for losing to Hitler 2.0.
Oh, and before you say it, yes I voted for Kamala and told everyone I could that it was the best person to vote for. I also said this would be the thing that lost her the election.
The DNC had to do so little to appease the progressives. Literally just let a Palestinian speak. Or say anything other than “Israel has a right to defend itself”. Maybe actually host a sympathetic Imam. That’s all they had to do and they didn’t even try to do that.
I feel like this is not functionally different from what they did.
Unreal… Nobody can really question it I guess, since we’ll never really know.
But what a bunch of fucking horseshit. Of course it’s different. Are you serious?
If it’s so obviously different, tell me how Kamala would have reacted? When did Biden withhold aid or did Kamala even hint at withholding aid?
Biden was literally shipping bombs to Israel right up until the moment Trump took office.
Of course it’s not different. It’s a giant black spot on Biden’s legacy.
We could have only hoped that Kamala would have been different but frankly she gave 0 indications that she was willing to deviate from Biden’s policies.
Different how? Trump being openly okay with words instead of Biden saying he was against it but continuing to send weapons, money, un vetos etc?
Of course it’s different.
Yeah. Now you’re pretending you don’t love the genocide instead of cheerleading it like you did for the last year of the Bidenyahu administration.
If it easy such an important election, democrats would have passed electoral reform so other political parties could join in on the fight to defeat the republicans. Who could say no to more then one chance to win?
It’s nice to see centrists coming around to at least pretending that they don’t love genocide for its own sake, if only because it gives them an excuse to badmouth their only actual enemies: progressives.
Isn’t Trump’s whole stance anti immigration/emigration?
He literally said in his plan with Bibi that he wanted to send Palestinians to something like 20 different countries. Ie, he’s not planning to take any here in the US. He’s going to force displace people, spread out the diaspora, and try to take all the profits and suffer no poor consequences.
Sick ceasefire bro
Fuck trump
But the guy that leveled Gaza for Trump is cool though, right?
It is entirely possible that more than one ass hole exists in the world. Having to explicitly name them all would make for a very long post.
Seeing that this entire post is about Gaza, there are 3 assholes.
“Ohh, but Billy Bob who actually pulled the trigger with a smile is cool thought, right?”
There are way more than 3, even if you just confine yourself to the members of the IDF and don’t look at any of the other factions.
Without US money and weapons that IDF soldier wouldn’t have been able to pull the trigger. Right now there are 3 assholes, Biden, Harris, and Trump
Israel has a pretty significant domestic arms industry. I’m pretty sure they’d be fine without USAs help.
They are only able to have that significant arms industry because of money from the US
Election’s over, Harris lost. Deal with it.
Wont get over it, those that dont remember history are doomed to repeat it, exactly the way they repeated their failures from 2016 in 2024
Imagine there are people who want you dead for existing. They tell you to leave but you have nowhere to go, because they took your home and nobody wants you. You don’t have anything and aren’t even able to leave, even if you wanted to. So they come, they kill your family and they kill you.
Now imagine there are people in other parts of the world, they have everything and they didn’t even know you, but they consider it served you right.
This world is fucked up.
They tell you to leave but
you have nowhere to go, because they took your home and nobody wants you.Actively block you from leaving and attack you when you try to leave via “safe routes”.
FTFY
Hey everyone, this guy is a mod who had previously banned pro Palestine comments a few months back. Neat to see you finally changed your mind on the active genocide.
Edit: turns out he has not. Scroll down and see him continue to hold that palastinians do not have a right to defend themselves.
As someone who has friends in Southern Lebanon who have been held at gunpoint by IDF forces and threatened with death, I’m pretty sure you’re confused.
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Nope, Lebanese doctor who the IDF would raid in the middle of the night, tell him he would be shot if he resisted, hauled him off to treat some random prisoner, then dumped him at the side of the road when they had no more use for him. Happened ALL the time.
This wasn’t during the current illegal occupation of Lebanaon, or even the one before that, it was the one before that.
And yet, here you are, banning me for arguing that palestinians have the right to defend themselves from a genocide.
Would you like to recant?
Nope, you got banned for being a terrible troll, another in a long line of ban and comment removals.
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModBanFromCommunity&userId=3175314
You post a modlog made up of you writing “trolling” and count it as self evident proof. I posted my words and yours that resulted in my ban. See the difference? The ego lol.
But hey, I ain’t here to argue it again. I’m just here to remind fellow folk who hold similar anti genocide opinions where exactly you stand and do against those who disagree with you. Using your own words and actions.
That way, people rightly know not to trust you.
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The deafening silence from all the people who were so noisy about gEnOcIdE in October 2024.
Still here, Joe Biden started the genocide, trump looks like he’s going to finish it.
Not sure if the liberals are much louder in condemning this, judging by the comments here they seem to just want to say “I told you so”
EDIT: I try show some brevity once instead of writing paragraphs and get told I don’t know my history, so here’s some paragraphs.
Yes Israel has been carrying out a process of slow ethnic cleansing for decades. Biden while in congress along with all the other dems repeatedly backed arms sales to this apartheid state knowing it was going to kill Palestinians. The violence ramped up in 2023 as Israeli settlers committed pogroms against Palestinians, which is part of the reason hamas did oct 7th. During this time Biden did nothing to reign in the Israelis, and instead tried to throw it under the rug to get a deal with the Saudis to normalize relations. Then Oct 7th happened and Israel went on a full onslaught against Gaza, and to a lesser extent the west bank and Lebanon. Biden again did nothing to stop this and continued to give military aid and diplomatic support to Israel. By the end of his administration Gaza was uninhabitable. Now trump seems primed to allow Israel to finish what it started and complete the ethnic cleansing.
Still here, Joe Biden started the genocide
Lol for fuck sake… Are you for real??? Biden started the genocide? You fucking sure about that?
What a joke. Most of these people never even knew of the existence of Palestine prior to 2024. Read a fucking book
Ffs “this phase of the genocide” happy, point still stands, Biden enabled Israel to bomb Gaza into obliteration and trumps finishing the job and all Liberals have to say is “i told you so”
I know Israel has been carrying out a slow genocide for the past couple decades but they haven’t ramped up to this level since the Nakba. If you think this is the same as anything pre October 7th, post 73 you need to look at the pictures coming out of gaza.
Uh yeah Biden didn’t start “this phase of the genocide” either.
lol they are trying hard to blame Palestinian for trump to the point they are willing to say Biden fid nothing wrong. Even thought they vetoed all humanitarian resolution at the UN. Like for fuck sake just search google how Biden supported the genocide.
Did I say Biden did nothing wrong?
Here’s a challenge: try to discuss this topic without resorting to straw men. In my experience, on this site, every single discussion about this topic has ended up this way.
“Biden supported the genocide” is a factual statement that i agree with.
“Biden started the genocide” is fucking stupid hyperbolic partisan cheerleading.
And trumps not going to finish it, it was a play on words for brevity, see the edit. Both of the actions were/will be done by Israel with the support and weapons of the u.s.
No one seems to be calling out the trump line as hyperbolic partisan cheerleading. Or any of the other comments on here saying trump is committing genocide.
Joe Biden started the genocide,
Stunning lack of knowledge of history. Bravo. This is why no one should take you guys seriously. You’re useful tools for Russian propaganda.
Russian propaganda, wtf. Newsflash Russia has good relations with Israel, not as subservient as the u.s., but they aren’t really complaining about the genocide. I guess you just think that anything that’s against the democrats is Russian propaganda, in which case I’d say your a good tool for democrat propaganda.
Made an edit since you people can’t seem to take a short reply but I’ll copy it here:
I try show some brevity once instead of writing paragraphs and get told I don’t know my history, so here’s some paragraphs.
Yes Israel has been carrying out a process of slow ethnic cleansing for decades. Biden while in congress along with all the other dems repeatedly backed arms sales to this apartheid state knowing it was going to kill Palestinians. The violence ramped up in 2023 as Israeli settlers committed pogroms against Palestinians, which is part of the reason hamas did oct 7th. During this time Biden did nothing to reign in the Israelis, and instead tried to throw it under the rug to get a deal with the Saudis to normalize relations. Then Oct 7th happened and Israel went on a full onslaught against Gaza, and to a lesser extent the west bank and Lebanon. Biden again did nothing to stop this and continued to give military aid and diplomatic support to Israel. By the end of his administration Gaza was uninhabitable. Now trump seems primed to allow Israel to finish what it started and complete the ethnic cleansing.
The Russian checks stopped coming, so they moved on to other things now
Everyone who disagrees with me is a Russian spy
Are you reading all the comments? Nobody is being silent about it
Hey, how about instead of chastising people for telling biden/kamala they needed to pivot here you look at the DNC that took a campaign strategy of “Well, let’s ignore a huge issue because we don’t want to lose donor money”.
Trump won by unabashedly appealing to his base. Biden/Kamala lost because they ignored their base and chased after Trump’s base instead.
Way to miss the point.
What point? That trump allowed the same genocide that biden did? That functionally trump and biden had the same policy for gaza?
Tell me, how would Biden or Kamala have responded to this news? Whispering to someone “Wow, netty sure is an asshole”? Would they have actually even threatened to cut aid? What are current democrats in congress saying about this? Has any non-progressive democrat condemned this?
Yeah, that’s the point. One that you are missing. The party didn’t listen to it’s base and lost an election because of it. Gaza is just as fucked as it would have been under either presidency.
Okay, I’ll spell it out then.
Before the election, there were all sorts of people crowing about the one genocide going on that they could use to get their fascist elected, and now that that very fascist is accelerating that very genocide - fucking crickets.
Those pre-election gEnOcIdE people were being disingenous then, as is evidenced by the deafening silence now.
You are literally talking to one. And frankly, you are covering your eyes because you are uncomfortable with the fact that they are STILL protesting the genocide.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/thousands-across-the-u-s-protest-trump-policies
But go ahead and try to act like they aren’t being consistent. Cling to your conspiracy theories rather than recognizing the party needs to change to be responsive to it’s voters.
You’re the one talking about Democrats, not me.
How much effort have you put in to voicing your concerns about the Uighurs, Sudanese, Congolese? Or is it just this genocide you don’t like?
How much effort have you put in to voicing your concerns about the Uighurs, Sudanese, Congolese?
The US wasn’t sending weapons to support those genocides for you.
First, yes, I’ve complained about those.
Second, We aren’t funding any of those genocides as a matter of US policy.
Tell me what the US is supposed to do short of invading China, Sudan, or the Congo? The best you could say is more tariffs against china for the Uighurs. For the others we have basically no leverage beyond maybe USAID.
I think many people here are missing the real point underneath all of this. All the Americans who are still so delusional they believe democracy in the usa is functioning are the ones blaming voters who’s conscious wont allow them to vote for an obvious controlled opposition party. Here is the reality. Neo liberal democracy is a farce and always has been. You can not have true democracy without economic democracy. What you actually have in that case is class dictatorship.
We have a ratcheting political system. The right moves in and takes power and leverages everything as far right as they can get away with as quickly as possible, meanwhile the center right which masquerades as a “left party” with their milquetoast virtue signaling of waving pride flags and blm signaling while still supporting the main factor that allows racist ideology to flourish within policing agencies, global drug prohibition and the militarized police and surveillance state that has risen from it, while in power they make every excuse not to move the dial to the left and thus the pawl of the ratchet locks and only allows rightward movement.
The 14 traits of fascism are present in both parties. Albeit more prominently so in the maga right but its still there in the center right democrat party. Both sides are owned by the same exact wall street military and prison industry profiteers this is an undisputable fact. The only one of the 14 traits they can claim plausible deniability in regards to is fraudulent elections however there is more than enough evidence to say that the us presidential election is rigged and has been since reagan and maybe even since kenedy considering the deal that was made with the mafia to get JFK in the white house.
Now we have elon musk buying trumps election in broad daylight and star link satellite systems were connected to tabulation machines in multiple precincts but lets ignore the cybersecurity experts who have claimed that there is legitimate evidence the 2024 election was stolen. The only half truth trump may ever have told is that the 2020 election was stolen but he didn’t complain when it was rigged in his favor in 2016 because he doesn’t give a fuck about election integrity so long as he benefits from it.
It is obvious to anyone paying attention that nothing in the US will change without a revolution. The democrats fight leftward movement at every opportunity. They disenfranchised sanders voters in 2 primaries and forced tired status quo bullshit onto us and blamed us for the dnc leaks sinking Clinton and then called it Russian propaganda. This all goes back to the thirties and the wall street putsch business plot and then nixon, then Reagan killing the fairness in reporting doctrine and bush also ensuring that was not codified into law. Now we have right wing fascist apologia rags masquerading as true unbiased journalism. 90% of the media we consume all owned by 6 major corporations all circularly owned by blackrock, vangaurd state street and blackstone. Democracy in the usa is dead. If you think it’s still functioning you are naive.
Which is why the practical arm of the left promotes the Dems. Not because they are enough, or even good, but because of the two options they are the less overtly fascist. We don’t vote blue because it’s sufficient, we do it because it’s necessary to slow the descent enough for sufficient methods to take hold. Neo liberal democracy is a farce, but it’s a farce with a bad outcome and a catastrophic outcome.
We vote for bad to stave off catastrophe, so good can actually establish a foothold. Didn’t pay off this time unfortunately, now good has to be fantastic to even slide a toe in the door, and it’s a steep uphill battle at that. You’re right, fascism is definitely more prominent in the MAGA right, our job is harder than it had to be, but so it goes.
Silver lining, I guess we can lean into accelerationism now. Not my first choice, for the sake of those less financially stable than myself, but not really much option now. Send it, sure, might as well at this point. I would’ve preferred building a viable labor movement under the “stationary” part of the ratchet cycle, but we’re here now. If we’re playing the hand we’re dealt, sure, accelerationism.
Fascism lite is still fascism, fighting to support a controlled opposition group is fighting against your own self interests. Ballot box socialism/ ballot box activism is a fools errand. We are behind a point where the system will be repaired through the mechanisms of the system itself. The democratic party actively sabotages democracy to ensure class dictatorship continues at all costs.
I am one of those less stable than yourself. I have no job, i live in an old drafty rv and struggle to care for the pets i love and my partner and i. I think those who are too comfortable or comfortable enough think allowing things to continue and fighting to preserve the lesser of two evils is the best option but allowing things to continue when things are already awful we already have a fascist totalitarian police state where wage slavery is the norm where millennials like myself and the younger generations wont have the luxury of owning homes or having a retirement or even social safety nets like social security st this point. I might end up having to survive off canned food and moldy bread from food banks if trump cuts food stamps more than theyve already been cut considering inflation and rising food costs/ corporate price gouging.
Any shade of fascism is unacceptable. Voting for a slightly less awful form of fascism and blaming people who didn’t vote or voted for jill stein / delacruz is like shooting yourself in the foot because it wouldn’t let you walk off a cliff on purpose.
We are in an age where a majority of what we see is manipulated propaganda that works to silence anyone with my opinion. Look at the reaction to the extrajudicial execution of Brian Thompson / support for luigi mangione. Every social media outlet silenced users who want to see revolution. We get chastised by the “ViOlEnCe iS nEvEr ThE aNsWeR” by the same society that brought you kent state and countless other extrajudicial police state murders. If non violence were so successful then those in power wouldn’t have a need for wars or militarized police or the death penalty. These are scared hypocrites who will and can do anythinf possible to maintain their power and present the illusion that what we are seeing and interpreting is a fair and level representation of reality and not a heavily manipulated propaganda filled control mechanism.
Everyone always says its better to have that still point within the ratcheting mechanism to build resistance but its impossible And naive to believe this because the democratic party and the state/ class dictatorship actively subverts and sabotages any movement left and manufacturing the consent of the populace to accept their system and play by their rigged rules.
“Good” isn’t a natural phenomenon that just needs a little space to establish a foothold. It takes deliberate action, effort, and sacrifice. And society doesn’t magically reach a stable state. That’s ridiculous.
Each election may have a bad and a worse outcome, but it’s relative. Voting for the less-bad is a strategy that works even when both parties push toward evil. It works even when the choices are a party that supports genocide quietly and one that supports genocide loudly. If the “practical left” is just voting for the less-bad, while shitting on and shunning the people trying to do the hard work because the magical Fairy of Good hasn’t yet shown up to establish that foothold with a wave of the wand, then I question how practical and how left that faction actually is.
If the “practical left” is just voting for the less-bad, while shitting on and shunning the people trying to do the hard work because the magical Fairy of Good hasn’t yet shown up to establish that foothold with a wave of the wand
No one is doing that.
Nobody is silent about this what the fuck are you even talking about?
The amount I heard the word “genocide” was much higher in October 2024.
Well, you were supporting it back then. Now that you’ve come around to opposing genocide, you’re no longer getting pushback.
Because there was a lot more genocide happening in October 2024. I mean hello? The war with Hezbollah and the North Gaza offensives were both in full swing then. Now we’re in a temporary “pause” in the genocide*, so there are less people saying genocide.
*There’s more genocide happening in the West Bank, but that has always gotten less reporting from Western media because it’s not as flashy.
Now, sure. Not in Nov 2024 when everything suddently quieted down right after the election.
I think a lot of people are mistaking my comments as being “supportive of the Israeli government and/or genocide.” They are not. Netahyahu and the people who enable him are huge pieces of shit. The practice of bulldozing to make way for “settlements” is fucking criminal, and that’s been going on for about forever.
And that doesn’t mean I support Hamas, either. They’re also shit. There’s war crimes all around here.
Not to mention Western nations playing fuck around with borders in the Middle East for 100+ years.
At the bottom of it all, to my view, the problem stems from Religious Group A and Religious Group B haintg each other because of religion, and claiming “rights” to land because of religion.
But I digress.
My comments were directed at the glaringly obvious use of a horrible situation to convince people to either vote for a fascist, or to withhold their vote for a non-fascist.
Now, sure. Not in Nov 2024 when everything suddently quieted down right after the election.
Uh… Nothing quieted down in Nov 2024. I was here in Nov 2024, arguing that Biden is the root of all evil, and the concentrations of people saying that Biden is or isn’t the root of all evil didn’t change much in November.
So was I. We’ve had different experiences, and that’s fine.
Right here bub. Genocide Joe laid the groundwork for this.
Clearly you haven’t read the numerous comments sections where other people have left your exact same comment.
The real deafening silence is the democrats on Electoral reform. Don’t they support democracy? Then why don’t they support changing how we vote so people can be represented by their options in the voting booth?
Because they were bots
Beep boop Genocide Joe wanted ethnic cleansing just as much as Trump boop beep
Hi, I’m still here to point out biden was supplying israel with billions in support as they committed genocide all the way until JANUARY OF THIS YEAR. How’s that for deafening silence?
By the way, think about what impression you give off when you spongebob text the word genocide. If it helps, try doing that with The Holocaust and think about how that looks.
Hi, I’m here to point out that those arms sales were designated by many Congresses going back decades, and the deals for them were not reversible by a presidential edict, except for arms that were not for “defensive purposes,” which Biden was able to and did put a hold on … Except that House Republicans reversed that.
Why would Biden bypass congress for arms sales that were “designated by many Congresses”?: https://apnews.com/article/us-israel-gaza-arms-hamas-bypass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f
israel’s campaign of genocide that it has been waging for over a year (and more accurately, since its founding) is not defensive. Biden even claimed that he’d set a red line, but then he’d pretend nothing happened when israel crossed them: https://www.npr.org/2024/05/29/nx-s1-4983786/where-is-the-biden-administrations-red-line-when-it-comes-palestinian-deaths-in-gaza
Do you think 2,000-pound bombs are used for defensive purposes?: https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
Oh, I see what you mean in that article:
The Biden administration has paused one shipment of the 2,000-pound bomb, citing concern over the impact it could have in densely populated areas in Gaza, but U.S. officials insist that all other arms deliveries continue as normal.
Wow, pausing a single shipment when israel already had more than enough to level all of Palestine. That really made a difference!
Sure is better now, huh.
Sure would be better if Biden had stopped supporting a genocide and listened to their base. Maybe they would have been able to stop Trump winning, at least. So good job on you for wanting more of what makes the DNC lose to Trump.
Hi, I’m here to point out that those arms sales were designated by many Congresses going back decades
“That’s the way we’ve always done it” is a shit excuse for genocide. But any excuse will do for the genocidal.
and the deals for them were not reversible by a presidential edict
The Leahy law is RIGHT THERE.
Biden could’ve vetoed the multiple aid bills that passed his desk with arms shipments to israel after oct 7th and after it became clear Israel was using this as an excuse to obliterate gaza.
He could’ve also enforced the leahy laws which prohibit arms shipments to countries that are suspected of using them for human rights abuses.
He didn’t do either because he is a zionist who is fine with the genocide of Palestinians.
genocide much?
Can I get a religious war with a side of genocide? Oh, it’s a package deal and I also get free racism? Cool.
the colonial project far supercedes religion here
Yeah, it was European colonialism with a side of antisemitism. Amazing how it turned out.
What many do not know is thar Theodor Herzl and even the first Israeli prime ministers were hardcore atheists. Zionism faced much opposition from religious Jews.
How Israel Went From Atheist Zionism to Jewish State
Zionism as a national movement that rebelled against historical Judaism was mainly atheistic. … Due to the sweeping opposition of the rabbis of Germany, Theodor Herzl was forced to transfer the First Zionist Congress from Munich to the Swiss city of Basel.
But beginning with the first stages in the consolidation and settlement of the Zionist movement, it was forced to meticulously sort and thoroughly nationalize some of the religious beliefs in order to turn them into nation-building myths.
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