It’s brief, around 25:15

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nf7XHR3EVHo


If you’ve been sitting on making a post about your favorite instance, this could be a good opportunity to do so.

Going by our registration applications, a lot of people are learning about the fediverse for the first time and they’re excited about the idea. I’ve really enjoyed reading through them :)

  • @legolas@fedit.pl
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    644 months ago

    It’s crazy how the wind changed. Does anyone remeber the almost exact same thing 4 years ago, when people on the right side of political spectrum shared alternatives to big tech from their point ov view? GAB.COM, PARLER, BRAVE, DUCKDUCKGO etc

    XD

    • fxomt
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      564 months ago

      Duckduckgo? That’s just a search engine, no?

      I agree on the rest of the parts tho

    • @misk@sopuli.xyz
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      124 months ago

      In both cases it was primarily performative for Americans but this time there will be considerable chunk of Europeans who will be looking to leave big tech for services in non-hostile countries.

      • @grue@lemmy.world
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        264 months ago

        Brave’s business model is a crypto scam wrapped in a protection racket. It man-in-the-middles the site’s ads, replacing them with Brave’s own, then holds the revenue hostage unless the site gives legitimacy to Brave’s crypto by accepting it as payment.

        For comparison, “normal” ad-blocking consists of an end-user exercising his property right to control the operation of his own computer by programming it not to display the ads at all.

        Hopefully you can see how the thing Brave does is very different, and much more ethically fraught.

      • FundMECFS
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        104 months ago

        It’s not explicitly rightwing.

        A couple years ago Musk was recommending Signal.

        It’s just an example of right wing people recommending alternatives.

    • RuBisCO
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      84 months ago

      You mean Last Week Tonight? The Late Show is Colbert.

    • astro_ray
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      4 months ago

      Someone on mastodon told me, if you haven’t found someone on fedi, you are probably not looking hard enough. But no, I don’t think they are on fedi

      • CMLVI
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        324 months ago

        Someone is wrong lol. NFL, for example, cannot do anything outside of Twitter at this time. They are apparently working on it, but it’s gotta be implemented league-wide, so it’s taking some time. Idk if they’re even trying to get onto Mastodon, last I heard it was just Bluesky.

        This is a large org with hundreds of millions of fans, with no presence on Fediverse really. I’m sure there are mirror accounts, but none are official.

  • @imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works
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    3064 months ago

    I wish he had mentioned Lemmy, but it’s understandable that he didn’t. Also Bluesky isn’t an alternative to big tech, it IS big tech. I wish it wasn’t stealing so much of our publicity lately.

    But beggars can’t be choosers, and we have seen some nice growth over the past couple months. John Oliver fans are the perfect candidates to join the fediverse, hopefully some of them find their way to Lemmy.

    • JackbyDev
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      294 months ago

      Exactly, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Someone using BlueSky over Twitter is a good thing.

      • @commander@lemmings.world
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        84 months ago

        We still shouldn’t be doing the dirty work of rich people for them.

        We should all be promoting Mastodon over the centralized and corporate-owned bluesky.

    • OpenStars
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      394 months ago

      John Oliver fans are the perfect candidates to join the fediverse, hopefully some of them find their way to Lemmy.

      Too late - we are already here!:-P

      img

    • Mose13
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      114 months ago

      I agree, but I also think we should remember a loss for musk is a win for society

    • Balder
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      4 months ago

      Do you really think Lemmy could handle the amount of people that Reddit has?

      As far as I know the existing instances are usually running on capacity and always in need of donations, and that’s when the owner isn’t handling the costs themselves. I’m not sure how well most instances have right now.

      Maybe Lemmy would benefit of some way to get people to pay, such as purchasing the ability to give people awards etc. like Reddit. Despite being useless stuff, it might provide some fun that would make hardcore users want to pay. But for that to work out, all apps would also need to show the posts awarded in a different way, so I think that’s unlikely.

      But the point is that without a business model, the Fediverse will only be able to handle a limited number of enthusiasts before it faces scaling problems.

      • @rumba@lemmy.zip
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        104 months ago

        Do you really think Lemmy could handle the amount of people that Reddit has?

        yup. no question. Not one instance mind you, but Reddit is also a giant cluster. (and clusterfuck)

        As far as I know the existing instances are usually running on capacity and always in need of donations,

        We just need the big bois to stop stuffing themselves. There’s 0 reason to have 2/3 of the totally traffic flooding into world because people are scared of Federation that they never even have to deal with.

        Maybe Lemmy would benefit of some way to get people to pay, such as purchasing the ability to give people awards etc.

        Maybe we make some premium pay servers with baller architecture, killer response time, user capacity limits and high speed storage?

        But the point is that without a business model, the Fediverse will only be able to handle a limited number of enthusiasts before it faces scaling problems.

        Eventually, it’s going to be ads, donations or payments. It’s all someone else’s computer, someone has to foot the bill. But at great scale, you should be able to have an ad-free experience for something in the range a dollar or two a month.

        • @PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
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          24 months ago

          It costs me less than $10/mo to run mine and some of that is because I have to pay for an email forwarder until my hosting provider lets me start sending emails, part of that is factoring the cost of the domain name. The actual cloud server costs $5/mo right now.

        • Balder
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          64 months ago

          I wouldn’t mind having some ads, but I wonder how some more extremists users would react.

          But I strongly believe that depending on donations is a very tough place to be, it places the burden of “begging” on the instance owners, which are already doing all the work and should definitely be compensated somehow.

          • @rumba@lemmy.zip
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            44 months ago

            which are already doing all the work and should definitely be compensated somehow.

            That’s why I donate monthly to my instance :)

            A pretty decent sized instance managed will uses a few boxes and some CDN, runs a couple to a few hundred a month, it doesn’t take that many people paying to cover it.

            It’s not as bad managing the smaller instances. The app works like it says on the tin until you get really big.

            IMO lemmy.world let themselves get WAY bigger than they should have. They had to start doing a hell of a lot more work to keep the thing up.

          • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
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            44 months ago

            But I strongly believe that depending on donations is a very tough place to be

            If you get a good deal on hosting then, on medium-sized instance donations easily cover costs. lemmy.world suggests this can scale up a lot even if you need more complex systems in place to deal with demand.

        • @DefectiveFoundation@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Isn’t it easier to handle most users on one server than it is to have a bunch of equal servers? Then the problem just moves off the one server towards the communication between the servers being the bottleneck.

          • @rumba@lemmy.zip
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            54 months ago

            The way lemmy (and federation) works, it needs to do a bunch of operations that can’t happen simultaneously, so there’s a job queue. The queue needs to do some database operations and a bunch of communication operations and each of the jobs needs to reach out to distant servers that may or may not be overwhelmed themselves.

            You start with one server it costs almost nothing to host. Sooner or later you want to split out the job servers, then you end up needing to split out the database, when you start getting that many people on your server now you want to consider fault tolerance, Even after tuning you can only fit so many simultaneous users on a web server, you end up needing to do some load balancing. The next step would be trying to split it up geography-wise.

            That’s scaling up and it’s what big companies do and it’s very expensive but easy for a small team to manage.

            Lemmy on the other hand is designed to be scaled out, running smaller individual user bases on lighter hardware with a bunch of individual administrators instead of a organized team.

            If people want to be on a large single cluster application Reddit is still there.

            I like what we have a lot better.

      • @Zagorath@lemm.ee
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        LW definitely can’t handle more traffic than it already has. It already (thanks to the admins’ refusal to update to the latest version of Lemmy, which fixes this issue) takes multiple days for LW content to get federated to other instances properly, which is why I’ve had to switch over to this alt account of mine because there are zero comments on this post in my main instance. With more users, that delay would grow from days to potentially weeks.

    • @tomenzgg@midwest.social
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      Also Bluesky isn’t an alternative to big tech, it IS big tech. I wish it wasn’t stealing so much of our publicity lately.

      This; I’m so sick of hearing it pop up when people mention alternatives.

      • @Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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        304 months ago

        I’m not sure anyone mentions bluesky as an alternative to big tech.

        Pretty sure they only mention it as an alternative to musk/X.

        • Pika
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          This right here, the everyday person doesn’t know what federation is let alone believes that it’s an alternative to federated platforms. They see it as a better Twitter that’s not run by Musk and honestly that’s all they need to know.

          • @Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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            94 months ago

            Holy shit! A sane rational Lemmy user in the /c/Fediverse community! Someone who sees the bigger picture, and isn’t just reacting to this small niche area of the internet.

            Look, I love Lemmy, but I can’t sit by and act like just because something is a better service, and makes logical sense to use, that people will ever have even heard of it. That’s not how PEOPLE work. Yes, Lemmy is better than reddit. But no, Lemmy will not overtake reddit in usercount maybe in my lifetime. Unless reddit gets sold, and then plummets into death like myspace did. Then Lemmy wins by default, but it’s not the same thing.

            And everyone (well, everyone but you I guess) most people on this community seems to miss all that.

            • @ApollosArrow@lemmy.world
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              54 months ago

              I think the uphill battle here is that a good amount of the active users on lemmy are probably very tech savvy. The percentage of us who aren’t, are doing it wrong in their eyes.

              • Pika
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                24 months ago

                Fully Agree.

                Mastodon, Lemmy and the likes are all enthusiast platforms in my eyes. Their primary userbase of the more savvy folk who are early adopters. I also believe it’s why many don’t fully get how complicated the fediverse really is to comprehend. To many the hurtles are just costs of being in the field/having a tech passion, hopefully it will be adopted but like, I still think the UI and general behavior and mechanics of it will be a fairly big roadblock.

              • @Sergio@slrpnk.net
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                54 months ago

                Dunno, I like the fact that people here are tech-savvy. My HS guidance counselor said I should always hang out with people that are smarter than I am. That’s why I like it here, everypony seems so knowledgable.

          • @commander@lemmings.world
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            and honestly that’s all they need to know.

            Err… why are we suggesting the corporate-owned and centralized bluesky over Mastodon then?

            Oh right, viral marketing and useful idiots. I shouldn’t have expected more.

      • zqps
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        84 months ago

        The thing that it really has going for itself is that it simply isn’t twitter. And Muskler made sure that’s a huge deal.

        • @taiyang@lemmy.world
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          64 months ago

          Using it myself, this is technically true but also it’s literally Twitter pre-takeover-- like a fork all the tolerable people started using. You’ve got your George Takei and your Stephen King, etc, so it’s what left of center normies can enjoy without being a little too far (like us, here).

          If I’m being honest, I prefer to mix the two communities because a little too much Fediverse can make you go crazy, plus I spread Lemmy ideology there cause someone’s gotta bring up class warfare and Linux, right?

          • zqps
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            34 months ago

            Oh I agree. I’m just not there because twitter was never my thing. Keep up the fediverse propaganda, comrade.

    • OtterOP
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      334 months ago

      Indirectly, looking up “John Oliver Mastodon” brings up this post in the top few. “John Oliver Pixelfed” has this post as the first option

      So we’re not completely left out :)

    • @Novice_Idiot@lemmy.wtf
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      74 months ago

      John Oliver being uploaded to YouTube is awesome! I should comment that Lemmy is a great Reddit alternative

    • anachronology
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      504 months ago

      Agreed, but at least Bluesky is a public benefit corporation, so it supposed to take in the needs of society as well as profit in its decision-making. That may not be much, but it’s a start.

      • @imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works
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        I’m not familiar with the details of that, but it seems like more of a red herring to me. A form of controlled opposition to divert people away from truly revolutionary platforms.

        Of course it has to seem like a plausible alternative, but is it actually decentralized or altruistic enough to make a meaningful difference? I think not.

        • Evkob (they/them)
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          424 months ago

          “Public benefit corporation” is such an oxymoron, I know it’s cliché to say this but it reads like something out of 1984.

          If your goal is truly to benefit the public, why wouldn’t you start a non-profit? It’s because they want profits, which will always be at odds with the interests of the public.

          • @Revan343@lemmy.ca
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            If your goal is truly to benefit the public, why wouldn’t you start a non-profit?

            Because your non-profit isn’t likely to go anywhere; Capitalists don’t give significant money to non-profits, but they’ll invest in a public benefit corporation because of the potential for profit. The corporation can then take their money and use it for whatever public benefit it intends to work towards. It’s a workaround to try and scrape some benefit to society out of capital, that otherwise wouldn’t exist.

            Whether Bluesky is actually a good example of a public benefit corporation or not, I have no idea, I don’t use it.

        • @LillyPip@lemmy.ca
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          54 months ago

          You’re absolutely right, but as a UxD, until these platforms learn UxD, they’ll never work. They can’t.

          It doesn’t matter how great they are, the vast majority of people won’t learn. And they shouldn’t have to. That’s why big commercial apps are better – good designers need to eat, and big companies can pay for their eggs.

          It doesn’t matter how good your model is, without great UxD, you’re dead in the water.

        • Baron Von J
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          54 months ago

          Their protocol allows for federated relay servers, but I’m not aware of anyone having done the exercise of launching one.

          • @pixelscript@lemm.ee
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            That’s because, to my understanding, the prerequisite to be able to launch one is “handle the raw, unfiltered firehose of all the traffic on the entire platform”. A relay has to be a mirror of the entire company’s hosting infastructure, and you’d have to essentially do it for free. It’s no puzzle to me why no one’s done it yet.

            • Baron Von J
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              44 months ago

              Ah, yeah that makes sense then. They’re over 30M active users now.

      • @Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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        194 months ago

        “Public benefit corporation” is a meaningless designation. All it means is they have the option of putting their mission over their shareholders, not that they are obligated to do so.

      • @Dil@is.hardlywork.ing
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        44 months ago

        If I was losing money and wanted to mantain control over the public id become a public benefit corp too

      • zqps
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        Chances are it’s really just that, a start. See OpenAI.

      • @rumba@lemmy.zip
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        224 months ago

        I’m really not happy about bluesky their fragmentation of the fediverse protocols

        shrug, I wish they were with us, but they are also a big ole corporate entity, so I’m kind ok with us staying our our side of the fence. As they need to implement payment and corporate protections to their network, we’re free to be free over here.

        is only going to harm us in the long run.

        We don’t have to play ball. not with them anyway,

        I think, If we have any credible threat, it’s going to be from the Governmental gross anti-tampering laws, forced moderation, or backup regulations. They could make it legally difficulty for us to exist.

        • @kudra@sh.itjust.works
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          94 months ago

          I think, If we have any credible threat, it’s going to be from the Governmental gross anti-tampering laws, forced moderation, or backup regulations. They could make it legally difficulty for us to exist

          This. I have considerable concern that Fascists will straight up ban Fedi if enough people shift to it. They don’t like not being able to control everything, Fedi is far too much actual freedom of communication.

            • @rumba@lemmy.zip
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              54 months ago

              You make laws like the Online Safety Act in the UK. You then attach a multi-million dollar fine to anyone who doesn’t adhere to the bonkers unenforceable stipulations in the text.

              All of a sudden, no one but a corporation with a legal department can safely run an instance without putting their money and eventually freedom on the line.

              They might not be able to just stop it, but you can force us into a pirate scenario where we have to do it in the dark.

              We are likely starting to slowly head into 1984 territory. IF Fascim continues to rise, eventually, non-state-run media will be deemed unlawful and they’ll do what they can to make it go away.

                • irelephant [he/him]🍭
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                  24 months ago

                  since most federation happens over the backend, you could access an instance based outside the usa through tor.

                • @rumba@lemmy.zip
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                  34 months ago

                  When they get serious about encryption they will make tor illegal as well.

                  Tor will not hide you from the feds once they decide they really want to go after encryption. They can either own enough endpoints to find you directly or simply go and shut down all the endpoints. Or, If they have other IP leaks that are unpublished…

                  On the upside they are firing most of the competent people in government so there’s a chance the CIA can’t do that anymore

            • @kudra@sh.itjust.works
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              54 months ago

              They’d shut down large instances, pressure WordPress to remove support, in the US at least, it could be seen as too risky, if they wanted to they would find a way. I don’t think this would happen easily in the EU though.

  • @lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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    Not friendica, which seems an obvious facebook alternative.

    Also, I think they’re onto something with their fuck it approach that every social media platform would benefit from. The internet was mostly that before. Content moderation primarily serves advertisers, it was never really for the people. Old internet anarchy was chaotic fun.

    • qaz
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      Lemmy has also taken over advertiser focused moderation patterns. A great example is NSFW. What is NSFW exactly? Not safe for work? Why is only that relevant?
      NSFW is just used to mark advertiser unfriendly content. Why else group nakedness, violence, sexual content, and death in the same category?
      It’s way too vague to be useful, you have no idea if you’re going to see a nipple or a murder.

      Content warnings like on Mastodon are better, but don’t provide a way to reliably filter out categories. I personally think it would be way better to have specific nested tags for certain types of material.

      • @commander@lemmings.world
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        94 months ago

        Are you new to the internet? NSFW literally means what it says: it’s content that would not be safe for you to be viewing at work.

        Advertising has nothing to do with it, which is why you still get ads on NSFW boards on 4chan; they’re just NSFW ads.

    • @mke@programming.dev
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      Content moderation primarily serves advertisers

      I’m lost, here. Do you not think fighting toxicity and hate speech is a valid and important function of moderation that’s just as much or more for the sake of the people as it might be for advertisers?

      • @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
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        I think the rise of hate speech on centralised platforms relies very heavily on their centralised moderation and curation via algorithms.

        They have all known for a long time that their algorithms promote hate speech, but they know that curbing that behaviour negatively affects their revenue, so they don’t do it. They chase the fast buck, and they appease advertisers who have a naturally conservative bent, and that means rage bait and conventional values.

        That’s quite apart from when platform owners explicitly support that hate speech and actively suppress left leaning voices.

        I think what we have on decentralised systems where we curate/moderate for ourselves works well because most of that open hate speech is siloed, which I think is the best thing you can do with it.

      • @lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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        I think that it’s just words & images on a screen that we could easily ignore like people did before, and people are indulging a grandiose conceit by thinking that moderation is that important or serves any greater cause than the interests of moderators. On social media that seems to be to serve the consumers, by which I mean the advertisers & commercial interests who pay for the attention of users. While the old internet approach of ignoring, gawking at the freakshow, or ridiculing/flaming toxic & hateful shit worked fine then resulting in many people disengaging, ragequitting, or going outside to do something better, that’s not great for advertisers protecting their brand & wanting to keep people pliant & unchallenged as they stay engaged in their uncritical filter bubbles & echo chambers.

        With old internet, safety wasn’t an internet nanny, thought police shit, and “stop burning my virgin eyes & ears”. It was an anonymous handle, not revealing personally identifying information (a/s/l?), not falling for scams & giving out payment information (unless you’re into that kinky shit). Glad to see newer social media returning to some of that.

        • @Ghostbanjo1949@lemmy.mengsk.org
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          24 months ago

          I wholeheartedly agree, the only censorship should be in the individuals hands and only affects them. Aka blocking other users or content from being displayed on your own account. My moral compass does not need to be everyone’s moral compass.

        • @mke@programming.dev
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          44 months ago

          Toxicity doesn’t “work fine,” it’s contagious and destructive. For projects, it slows progress. For communities in general, it reinforces bad behavior and pushes out newcomers, leading to more negative spaces, isolation, and stagnation, just off the top of my head. These were issues in older communities just as they are in modern ones.

          I don’t see why we should abandon moderation for your benefit, at the expense of people who care.

          • @lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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            14 months ago

            For projects, it slows progress.

            Your example of toxicity is linux maintainers resisting a newer programming language, not wanting to maintain additional bindings, and being stubborn about it? People decide whether to work & agree with each other, so what’s your definition of toxicity here? How’s moderation supposed to solve that: force people to agree & work together unwillingly? Seems rather authoritarian. People should only put words & images on a screen that someone approves? More authoritarian. And look at those imaginary problems we can solve!

            This goes back to the grandiose conceit I wrote about earlier: some people can’t get over themselves, take these words & images on a screen a bit too seriously, and feel they know better than others the right words & images to put on a screen, because of course they do. The rest of us know it’s just a bunch of self-important crap that doesn’t matter unless we make it matter, and we can ignore it or put our own words & images on a screen or go outside.

            • @mke@programming.dev
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              14 months ago

              You streamed together a sequence of misunderstandings, fallacies and self-victimization into an incoherent pile of garbage that fails at actually responding to anything. Got it, got it, you’re god’s bravest warrior, resisting the authoritarianism of people who think others shouldn’t be forced to tolerate your immaturity whenever you act like a cunt. I’ll stop giving you attention now, so sorry.

              • @lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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                Victimization is all on those like you threatened by naughty words & images who claim we need some great moderator hero to defend us against their toxicity, which apparently includes work-related disagreements.

                people who think others shouldn’t be forced to tolerate your immaturity whenever you act like a cunt

                And they’ll be objective about it, or is anything someone disagrees with instance of immaturity & someone acting like a cunt? Do we need the noble internet police to swoop in and protect us against your words & images? They’re here, yet somehow the world isn’t crumbling.

      • @MortUS@lemmy.world
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        34 months ago

        Imagine traveling down a liminal space of tubes and the only signs are nondescript TLDs.

  • @GaMEChld@lemmy.world
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    124 months ago

    Can anyone explain Bluesky vs Mastodon as Twitter alternatives, asking as someone who never really used Twitter much anyway?

    • @commander@lemmings.world
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      24 months ago

      There’s a viral marketing campaign going on right now to herd the twitter sheep to the next rich-person’s platform. That’s why we keep seeing useful idiots say “bluesky” instead of “Mastodon.”

    • OtterOP
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      On the surface, both of them look very similar in format. They also both advertise themselves as decentralized and different from traditional social media, arguing that they won’t face the same problems old social media did.

      Mastodon uses ActivityPub, which is the widely used standard that most other fediverse platforms use. Mastodon is properly decentralized, where all the servers can interact and operate independently.

      BlueSky made their own protocol that they control, citing that ActivityPub wasn’t enough for what they wanted to do, and in some ways that’s true. However with their structure, a central relay is needed in order for different instances to interact and so people argue that it isn’t truly decentralized. Right now BlueSky is either the only instance, or basically the only instance. They’ve mentioned that they could transfer control of the relay to some other organization, but past that I don’t think they’ve taken any steps towards that.

      BlueSky is also a VC backed company while Mastodon is now under a nonprofit. BlueSky has its roots in crypto tech. There is more technical discussion on if it’s even possible to have a decentralized BlueSky and if it’s all just talk while they gather users.

      My personal opinion is that I really hope bluesky does what they’re promising, but I’m not expecting them to be any different than Twitter once they get a critical mass of users and the investors demand profits / infinite growth.

      • @lepinkainen@lemmy.world
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        64 months ago

        For me the advantage of Bluesky is that I can own my identity. I can reserve myusername@mydomain.tld and use that, without having to run my own instance.

        With Mastodon I’d have to put up a full-ass server instance and worry about federation etc just to have my “own” identity instead of myusername@mastodon.social or something

      • @commander@lemmings.world
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        14 months ago

        BlueSky made their own protocol that they control, citing that ActivityPub wasn’t enough for what they wanted to do

        Sounds like bullshit for useful idiots that don’t know what they’re talking about.

      • @PieMePlenty@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Bluesky is what happens when someone with a corporate mindset wants to make something new and good. Mastodon happens when hobbyists get together and make something. Ive heard BlueSky has a board of people in charge to make sure it doesn’t end up like twitter. Exactly what one would expect a company to do. Make sure something doesnt go wrong? Put a few people in charge. Mastodon just has the whole community. I may be wrong here as I dont use either. Right now Im just wondering what will happen when BlueSkys provider comes knocking with the hosting bill. As mass social media migrations are rare, its just a shame people are leaving twitter for another big tech site instead of something more community grown.

      • A Wild Mimic appears!
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        64 months ago

        from what i understand, a decentralized bluesky is nothing for an enduser at all.

        TL;DR: the cost for an enduser to run a bluesky instance will soon be prohibitive because of the amount of storage needed owed to its shared heap architecture. but what it does is to provide a “credible exit” - if users lose trust or the company shutters, there’s nothing in the way of another organisation picking up the mantle and continue from there on.

  • 👍Maximum Derek👍
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    4 months ago

    I’m going to assume this was Daniel O’Brien’s doing… because he’s the only Last Week writer I know specifically.