Its because they all use Unity, Unreal, or Godot, anon. Its the game engines.
It’s really not.
Thanks for explaining, you added so much context to those downvotes. Writing things in C Assembly and C Sharp Assembly, is different than Input.GetAxis.
As did you.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
- Hitchens’ Razor
Let’s see, Secret of Mana? No third party game engine
Chrono Trigger? No third party game engine.
Final Fantasy? Hmm, NO third party game engine!
Now its not necessarily the engines themselves that turns pixel art games into the same slop. Its the constant use of the inbuilt systems for movement and things like that. Thats what makes them all feel the same and not.like the games they are imitating. The movement is different because its a system built by the third party companies generically not hand crafted for the game. That alone works miles towards a game feeling unique.
Remake of secret of mana? Unreal Engine 4.
Octopath traveler? Unreal Engine 4.
You wanna know what doesnt feel like shit? Micro Mages, because they had to create it for the NES just like a classic game. Go play it on Itch.io its dope.
Godot, Unity, and Unreal don’t provide that kind of stuff, they mostly just provide primitives for things like hit detection, lighting, and physics. Things like movement are generally done by hand, unless the developer is super lazy and buys premade assets from an asset store or something. But then the problem isn’t with the engine, but the developer, and they’d release trash even if they didn’t use one.
I’m not big into pixel graphics, I’m into good games. Here are some examples of good games I’ve played that happen to use pixel graphics, and the engine they used:
- Darkside Detective - Unity
- Oxenfree - Unity
- Dave the Diver - Unity
- Undertake - Gamemaker Studio
- Celeste - MonoGame
- Stardew Valley - MonoGame
Those three examples you gave were made by major studios before game engines were a thing. They used pixel graphics because that’s all they could afford (FF was notorious for being multiple disks).
I’m sure I could find examples in Godot or Unreal if I looked.
My point is that it’s not the engine, it’s the devs. Whether a game is good has less to do with the engine used and more to do with the passion, budget, and time of the devs.
Yes they absolutely do provide input detection
https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/[email protected]/manual/index.html
https://dev.epicgames.com/documentation/en-us/unreal-engine/enhanced-input-in-unreal-engine
https://docs.godotengine.org/en/4.0/tutorials/inputs/index.html
Using these in conjunction with their physics or even just their built in systems for positions gives games a certain feel.
Input detection, sure, but even “no engine” games use standard input detection libraries, like SDL. I’m guessing the games you listed likely use the same library for that, and the behavior is probably identical to what Unreal, Godot, and Unity do. There’s pretty much no “feel” here.
I’ve built games, I’m pretty familiar with what they offer here. Input detection just abstracts over hardware differences, so you can check if they pressed “A” instead of knowing that’s “controller button 7” or whatever. Most games will still interpret that manually (e.g. if “A” is “jump,” apply X force upward for the physics system).
Physics is highly tuned by the developer, regardless of what abstraction they use, especially for simpler games where physics isn’t really a thing (e.g. older FF games just had simple object detection). You can achieve pretty much any feel you want with any of the standard physics engines, especially for simpler interactions like platforming.
There’s no reason I couldn’t build a convincing reimplementation of FF or Secret of Mana in Godot, Unreal, or Unity. Generally speaking, that’s not the goal.
Color might be one thing, if you use modern color limitations you have like a million more to choose from than they did back in the day.
The actual pixels are more defined. You can’t just emulate crt fuzz without emulating crt fuzz.
I will take this moment to recommend Crosscode, one of the all time greats
Could anyone id the game in the screen shot for me?
The question is not only what game is it, but also, is it any good?
Thanks!
We know what is possible today. When these old games were new they were quite frankly cutting edge and pioneering what was possible.
You don’t achieve that today even with the most dedicated adherence to retro limitations.
One could argue that the dynamic shadows of the day and night cycle in Sea of Stars were actually kind of breaking new ground in pixel art.
The era of NES was wild. I don’t think it is purely kid’s-experience nostalgia although that is certainly a factor. A lot of the language of gaming and the genres that are still in existence in some form today were being created for the first time, mostly from thin air. Wolf3d and Doom were probably the last time that a new “language” for gaming was created in that same way, directly in the mainstream of gaming and outside of niche / experimental games.
Also, the scope was incredible. For no reason. I along with a lot of other people had the experience of playing one level or one screen of an NES game and assuming at first that it was the whole game. No, that is 2% of the game. Why did they make so much game? For no reason? With no particular competition that would cause them to need to invest all the resources into creating this luxuriously massive experience? It can only be love.
Nah, Wolfenstein and Doom were not the last. GTA and TES brought us open world games later on. Max Payne brought us cinema-like adventures. Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice is just a complete mind fuck never seen before. And you’re forgetting VR, VR is full of unprecedented experiences, from physical action in Beat Saber to immersive story in HL: Alyx to time manipulating Superhot VR. And my personal favourite - No Man’s Sky, it’s just a very unusual game.
I’m not talking about just creating something that hadn’t been seen before. That’s always going to be happening. I’m talking about creating a genre from scratch that didn’t exist at all before.
HL: Alyx does some great stuff but it doesn’t have buttons that do basic concepts that buttons hadn’t done before, in the same way that run/jump/shoot was invented as functions for the A and B buttons in Super Mario, or the inventory screen was invented for Zelda 1. I’m not intending to be critical of the idea of building on new stuff and inventing new paradigms to go on top of it. I’m just saying that the initial creation is a special type of time.
I would actually describe the structure of VR games as a feature that has prevented them from seeing widespread adoption in the same way that the early game consoles got near-universal adoption: They don’t invent a new language. They just try to retrofit the existing languages of first-person video games into their new environment. Maybe there is no new paradigm that’s suitable for VR in a way that would make it groundbreaking and make possible some things that are totally different from “sticking the player in first person into a first person game instead of showing stuff on screen.” Maybe there is and it just hasn’t been invented yet. I don’t know. But it seems like they’re not adding all that much beyond just immersing you in the game world. They’re still looking for that change that happened before from Adventure to Zelda or from Pitfall to Mario.
You’re wrong.
Glad we got that cleared up lol
There’s many factors, honestly. For example, a lot of pixelated games have animations that break the “pixel barrier”, eg, a character moves smoothly over half pixels. Another thing is pixel scales being completely different. Sometimes a character or an icon has larger pixels than those on a map. Another factor is simply a variety of textures and colours- older games had limited colours for most objects, counting the underlying map as an object in itself. Not every colour could be used, and sometimes, a lot games weren’t actually on the same saturation as people remember.
Music will be another factor.
A reason to use pixelated graphics isn’t necessarily for nostalgia, it’s that it’s simply easier to make the game look good and consistent. Which is excellent for an indie game. 3d graphics could be more costly and higher res graphics are harder to look better due to the added detail. With pixels, your brain kinda just fills it in and it doesn’t go to the uncanny valley.
I think good examples are the likes of windwaker and thomas was alone. Both had simplistic art styles which wasn’t pushing the console to the limits, and both are beautiful games.
I remember when I had to make a game for an assignment. Other classmates were trying to go for realism humans and such, mixing and matching downloaded graphics and textures. It looked how you’d expect. The most detailed texture I used was a skybox, then made my own textures and models which were simply flat colours and neon green cones for trees and big boxes with ramps for hills. I then played around with the emissive properties until the lighting looked nice. I got good marks, the graphics were cited as a reason.
I digress,
I think here the pixel art is too good, back in the day they wouldn’t have been making something so complex.
It also depends on the system they’re trying to emulate the style of. This would fit fine in the PS1 “Of Mana” game. Too complex for SNES, which is what most people probably assuming graphics like this are going for.
Another thing is pixel scales being completely different. Sometimes a character or an icon has larger pixels than those on a map.
Stardew Valley for the most part does pixel art right, but it’s always jarring to see the player character’s weird skinny fishing line. It’s worst when it’s juxtaposed with other characters whose lines are drawn correctly:
That’s a great spot and I tried to picture it but couldn’t so I also appreciate the screenshot
That massive fish is also a bit jarring. Usually SDValley kinda works though because of the tiling. Wasn’t that game also almost entirely made by one dude?
The massive fish (and several other on-screen elements) are modded additions, not from ConcernedApe.
I think that fish (and the trout tag on the left side of the screen) may just have been screenshotted mid-catch. In the game, when you catch a fish you fling it through the air in an arc and then it lands in your hands:
That catch animation doesn’t show it, (maybe it’s from an earlier version of the game?), but I’m pretty sure the current version scales the sprite bigger and then smaller as it travels through its arc as sort of a 3D special effect.
it’s a mod
Also, 256 colours
It’s not just about looks. It’s about novelty, marvel giving way to generosity towards the crunchy parts of the design. And of course, a compelling story in a new world.
no indie rpg will ever make me feel like playing Golden Sun as a kid did
That main menu music was so great
I love the entire OST. the Saturos theme is one of my favourite ones
Yeah, they would need to be able to turn you back into your kid self, experiences and all. A lot of that magic is from you being a child.
not just you. the world you inhabit and your place in it.
like, imagine having a future, lol.
The sun will rise again!
I would imagine I’d absolutely love some of these indie games today as a kid. But there are things that make them less desirable to play now. The main things are being an adult with responsibilities gives you less time and tons of options for games now. I had maybe 10 games to choose to play from unless I rented.
Playing Chrono Trigger as an adult will ever make me feel like playing Chrono Trigger as a kid did.
OOP should try the Mega Drive (Genesis) ROM of Pier Solar, then. Couldn’t “look fake” even if it tried
It’s not just the pixel art but the rest of the game as well.
This is why shovel knight looks and feels like the old classics it’s imitating. They artificially limited themselves to color pallets and some technical limits that old systems had. I think they ended up using 18 colors instead of 16, and double the sprites on screen, among some of them. Indie games usually just go with what looks good and use modern limits because they can. Most the time it’s not a choice, they just do what works and that’s ok too.
Eh I don’t think shovel knight looks like the old classics. It looks way too refined to me when compared to a nes title.
I can’t remember if the game’s settings had a scanline filter switch or not, but that would be the finishing touch in my opinion.
There’s a more comprehensive breakdown from yachtclub themselves here I was off a bit in my specific examples but overall they do a good job breaking down why their game fits and breaks the mold with lots of examples. The game is a lot more faithful to NES than the vast majority of indie pixel art games. There were a few late-gen NES titles that are relatively unknown but look way more detailed and complex than the typical NES game too.
Check out Retro City Rampage. The creator made a version that works on original NES hardware: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/retro-city-rampage-creator-makes-a-real-playable-nes-port/
It looks more like a Genesis/SNES title than NES.
UFO 50 is definitely the “Modern Retro” king, IMHO. The only thing missing is box art and manuals.
You’d love Tunic. It’s 3D, but damn do they ever capture that feeling, including the manual (which you collect in-game, page by page)
…aaaaand wishlisted on Steam! Snagging it next time it goes on sale
Tunic is just a great game hands down. I think it’s in my top 5.
Also really cool game to watch speed runs, becuase there are a lot of tricks you learn throughout your first gameplay that aren’t actually locked behind anything, just knowledge. A bit like “Outer Wilds” in that regard.
I love limited pallettes. I love how in the original Legend of Zelda, Link changes colors a little every time the pallette swaps. I think getting creative with limited colors looks so much cooler than just having every color possible.
Restrictions breed creativity.
Because these characters aren’t built the same as old games. That was part of the magic of older games, using as few resources as possible but cleverly cutting the spirit into easily manipulated bit maps that can be flipped and rotated as necessary to animate the character.
These are overly detailed and missing the CRT effect.
Something about people putting their heart into what they’re doing just makes it feel different.
It barely matters what it is. It could be crappy externally. It could be notes from a math class. Something about the nature of the mind that makes it goes into the thing that gets made and makes it magic. The limitations to the old hardware mean people have no choice but to bring the magic, and because they had to make magic to make the game, the game turns out to have some magic in it.
Plenty of modern games have it too. Tunic and Hollow Knight have it in a way that a lot of the pixel-art imitators do not. Pixel art is fine too. But it’s not the point.
you need a good scanline filter if you want modern pixels to look like classic ones
Incorrect, you need a good NTSC filter. Scanlines on their own are hotdog water.
And then your European players wonder why the color artifacts are all wrong. PAL and NTSC had different distinct looks (and presumably so did SECAM).
If it helps, for all fairness, the Nintendo, Sega, and Sony consoles were all Japanese, so NTSC was their native target before getting converted to PAL. It may not be what EU kids remember growing up, but NTSC is technically more “correct” from that perspective.
With that being said, always use PAL filters with PAL versions of games and NTSC filters for NTSC versions.
Oh! You just reminded me. I had some old hotdog water on the stove and I cooked some rice in it. Was delicious. Pretty sure boiling killed any bacteria. So there ya go: a cooking tip in with yer video game comments.
I also think gaming now a days just feels different and not in a childhood wonder sort of way but a walking into an obscure bookstore kind of way. Social media makes learning about a video game way too easy. Spoilers are hard to avoid and the more people talk about a game the less novel it feels. I didn’t spend much time on forums as a kid so most games i learned about was via word of mouth or from demo disks. I’ll never forget my first play through of Halo 1 on the OG xbox. Played it coop with my bro. Was completely scared shitless when the flood was introduced. No one told me there were zombies in my shoot man game. Like no one talked about it. Good times.
I would also make an argument that the limited technology at the time led to different kinds of games versus what we see now. Sure there’s the obvious things like internet enabled games and being able to get updates but I think even the less thought about things like restrictions on RAM and the power of computers led to restrictions on what you could do which led to specific types of games which aren’t made that way anymore because they don’t have to work around those restrictions. And while in a lot of cases those restrictions going away has allowed for better mechanics and gameplay it also still makes the games different which to people who were used to and liked those games will feel not as good anymore.
There’s something about those early games that were in the first generation of their genres and people hadn’t figured out the rules yet. Lots of experimental stuff. Things that could created a wall that the average kid would stall on.
Try playing the Marathon trilogy and then go right to Halo CE. You’ll realize why Cortana walks you though most of the game. The line “This cave is not a natural formation” came from when the opening was more natural looking, but even with the dialog, play testers had trouble fining the opening. Still way better then dumping yellow tape or green lights everywhere.
On spoilers - also the whole goddamm culture shifted. A lot of people won’t pickup a game until they see at least gameplay vid of it or read tens of posts etc. Spoilers became culturally mainstream.
I do not partake and dive blind most of the time and still got that wonderfull wonder sensation I got as a kiddo.
Only ya know. We got so powerfull machines now that devs tend to focus on looks rather than story/gameplay. Thankfully slowly changing, in parts thanks to indie devs.
Maybe because it’s not limited. If your comfort games were in RPG Maker, then 24-bit pixels are right, but good art is wrong. If they were on consoles, they should be aggressively paletted and tiled.
Try homebrew. An NES or SNES game will always look about right, because breaking those limits is a thousand times harder than embracing them.
