Linux mint and pop os are winner so far
No, it’s not. And I say that as an almost-exclusively Linux users since at least 20 years.
What do you mean? My computer has never had Windows installed on it, so the end of Windows 10 support doesn’t affect me at all. I’m not sure what could be more simple than that.
Linux and Windows are different beasts entirely. Linux is perfect for some but needlessly complex and hard to support for others.
Most people normal people now days need a web browser and LibreOffice (or google docs variant). Pair that with Bazzite or other “ready to go” OS that comes pre installed with multimedia codecs, navidia drivers, a mobile like app store, a mobile like DE and it can be that simple.
Yeah it really isn’t that simple as Windows is deeply entrenched into society. If someone is looking to try Linux it is fairly simple to get into but saying it is somewhat a drop in replacement is not quite true.
Having to use windows 11 for work for the last few years.
(1) Randomly a program on the taskbar just has an invisible icon. Like you can click it but if you don’t know it’s there it just seems like that program is gone. I keep waiting it to be fixed after every forced update 3-4x a week. Still happening.
(2) Sometimes the entire process just disappears graphically. Not even an invisible icon on the task at. Still running in the background but it’s gone in the UI. Have to manually kill it or restart.
(3) I can’t unzip multiple ZIP files at the same time. Like I can’t select multiple ZIP files and extract them all into their own folder. Something that worked since I’ve used windows. Worked on windows 10, 7, and XP. It now just unzips only the file you right click even if multiple are selected.
I’m sure there are more but I avoid using windows and mostly just use it to connect to a work VPN and SSH into my redhat VM. Still, all 3 of these really common issues have existed for at least two years. The first two are constant on MS teams and Outlook. Literally no excuse, they are windows apps. Total garbage OS.
At my work IT requires admin privileges to kill processes in the task manager and it’s some real psycho shit.
If it gets bad enough I just yank the cord, fuck em.
Yeah, when I started at my workplace it took me a week to realize my computer was on W11 and not something archaic. Definitely did not impress.
Lots of comments about gaming from people assuming that companies will continue supporting their kernel anticheat on Windows 10 after it hits eol.
Windows 11 is much more convenient for identity tracking, so they’ll probably push for people to upgrade because Windows is too “insecure” for their games.
My CPU and motherboard are from 2016. I don’t mind updating harware to reach windows 11 compability, it’s about time anyway.
I would be angry if updating to 11 from 10 would also cost money directly.
It’s like they are not even trying. I have a laptop with 7th gen CPU that works perfectly fine. I don’t have any choice than install Linux, lol.
try mas for activiating ESU
the penguin migration was going just fine, until nvidia 570.124.04 dropped, which is when the misery started. :|
Got to check if I can roll back to earlier version.
Linux is super reliable, and unless you use cutting edge distro, it’s pretty rare than anything breaks. Even Fedora is pretty stable from experience
The only true problems I ever had (and still has), were with Nvidia. And switching distros ain’t saving you. Linux mint? Breaks on suspend. Nobara? Memory leak. Trying newer versions to see if it fixes it? Where’s my bootloader…
I do understand that laptop RTX 3070 are not common, but still. I just want it to work, and have cuda on it. Is that too much to ask?
unless you use cutting edge distro
yea well, “arch btw”. Haven’t had issues really, been running it for years on other systems but my gaming pc with nvidia is the only one with issues… because of course it does. :D
Never had an issue with Nvidia. But then I’m using an Ubuntu distro because I just want my computer to work and I don’t care about bleeding edge / rolling distros.
And I will move to Wayland in a few years when all the issues are sorted out, which I suspect is part of people’s problems.
Of course. Mileage may vary. On some systems it may always work, on others it’s “what’s broken this week”.
word. some devices just have angry machine spirits which just can’t be pleased.
Have you tried feeding them your youngest children?
haven’t forked, no children. will neighbour’s do?
Good idea. Try and report back. If it does not work, sorry!
Nobara memory leak? I’ve been using Nobara for a year and a half and have never heard of this.
It also happens on fedora but to a lesser extent (somehow). It’s all hidden under the Wayland session process
It’s always when I’m using my dedicated GPU, so I guess it’s the driver being fucky.
I have an oddball graphic card so might happen only on it
I’m running a 7800XT, FWIW.
Linux is super reliable
It depends on what you want to do with it, which version of which component you run and a couple of other things. In my own experience, if you want a “super reliable” system, get OpenBSD. Linux has a severe lack of QA, mainly because of its decoupled nature.
This is the main barrier for me (other one is migrating a janky access database). I really don’t want to spend my 2 hours free time an evening troubleshooting Nvidia driver issues (4800S series).
Anyone with this card have an experience to share?
I’m currently on that version. May I ask what happened or what should I expect?
rtx3090, 5800x3d, wayland, sddm, kde:
- whole system freezes on boot (with somewhat garbled display) when display manager starts (sddm) - IF >1 displays are plugged in/powered on.
- no issues if sddm starts with one display, and THEN powering up second. - But this has to be done while in sddm, before logging in.
- whole system can (with high chance) freeze again on desktop if at any point a screens are connected/disconnected
- krunner works exactly once, after that it logs errors in journal that some display reference is wrong (the exact wording escapes me atm)
all these things were fine with 570.86.something - the previous version, which apparently was beta.
I see. Then it’s possible that it doesn’t affect older cards. I have GTX 1660Ti and haven’t seen a problem, yet. However I do remember I had to downgrade Nvidia (on tty) a couple years back because it borked my system completely.
Entirely possible, dunno. And not like a 3090 is that new anymore either.
Basically all of the issues mentioned above have been mentioned in various threads over at nvidia’s forums, etc. So they’re not unknown, but kinda wild a released driver has all of these issues whereas the previous beta was seemingly unaffected - feels like someone was bit too triggerhappy to release an untested version to production.
It’d be nice if I could just drop the nvidia card and swap to amdgpu but… that’d require “a bit” of money so I could maintain same (or better) level of performance - and atm I just don’t want to spend that kind of money. :/
Yeah, it’s possible. This is not the first time they did this, probably won’t be the last. Though they solve the issues relatively faster comparing to years ago. That’s something.
It’d be nice if I could just drop the nvidia card and swap to amdgpu but… that’d require “a bit” of money
I’m in the same boat but I’ll most likely use this card until it’s dead or really old. I cannot imagine how the people think about that email they got from Microsoft.
Id run Linux if it could run the apps I need efficiently
Where is the conversation about the mountain of e-waste that’s heading to landfills if a concerted effort is not made to put Linux on millions of machines and to put those machines into the hands of people who can benefit from them?
I don’t wanna be a politics guy in a Linux sub. But this is not just a problem with Windows or even the choice of software. This is a fundamental problem with capitalism and won’t simply go away if every company suddenly replaced every OS with Linux. The same material incentives would still exist. Look at what Android OS has become. Would it be better for nerds like us? Sure. But software freedom goes hand in hand with the economic structures and incentives of our economic system. Windows is used because of how unfriendly it is. Linux is not used because of how much freedom it gives the end user. And if it is used it’s a special packaged restricted version of Linux.
If you happen to be a economics nerd and a Linux nerd I can’t recommend this video enough. There is too much to be said on how we got to this state we live in today in a single comment.
Generations worth of peoples E-waste *
Let’s not forget we produce 3, 4, or more models of phones, tablets, laptops, and so much more each year, per manufacturer and there are a shit load if brands. That’s an alarming planet amount of E-waste and we don’t have the raw materials to keep up this pace forever, the energy supply. It’s totally outlandish.
We need to not be carbon neutral we need to massively be carbon negative.
I’d switch in a heartbeat if Linux can play all my games including non-steam ones
I know just enough about Linux to know I should have been getting into it when I graduated over a decade ago.
I also know just enough to know it can do pretty much everything I need, as long as I’m willing to switch to a Linux alternative with similar capabilities.
However, I am Linux-dumb and deeply set into my windows, to the point where I’m not sure I have the technical savvy to switch.
From my understanding, Linux works very well, as long as you know what you’re doing.
I’m sure I’m overestimating the learning curve but it’s still intimidating.
Checkout Bluefin (or Bazzite if you’re more into games). They do a pretty good work at making you not need to know anything about Linux to use it well.
Unless you happen to need some uncommon driver or software, you can “just use” it.
What’s wrong with Windows?
The better question is why Linux over something you know how to use. Both systems have there own issues.
I felt the exact same way, still do, but I bought a new drive and installed Linux Mint on it (it’s the most Windows like experience I’ve found). I kept my old windows drive just in case, but I haven’t needed it so far.
The only time I ever used something that wasn’t Windows was DOS when I was very little.
It’s definitely overwhelming when trying to get certain things working that aren’t natively supported, but thankfully those are few and far between. There’s also a lot of people in the Linux community that are passionate about it, and tend to be very helpful.
You can always download what I think is called a live distro, and run it off a thumb drive just to test the waters. Nothing you change will be kept though, and it will be sluggish comparatively.
Go for it. You don’t need to install Linux in order to start getting your feet wet. Get a USB 3.0+ flash drive and put a “live” (CD/USB, whatever the distro wants to call it) distro on there. There are plenty of directions out there on how to make one from Windows. Most live distros nowadays are persistent, so any programs you install will be there next time you load it up. It will definitely be slower than a normal install, but it’ll let you get a feel for how things work.
Go ham wild on there, break stuff, see if you can fix it, don’t, then remake it again. Try different desktop environments (DEs) and see what you like. Your distro of choice is less important if you’re just starting, but any of the big ones will be fine. I’d recommend trying a few different DEs from the same distro, see what you like the feel of, then try a different distro with what you liked best. They’ll usually all have gnome, kde, and a third lightweight option, but in my experience if Wayland (the other choice is X11) works well, kde and gnome will feel pretty light. I use kde Wayland on this guy and trust me, this review is giving it a lot of grace. Windows 10 was completely unacceptable on it, so if your specs are any better then this, you’ll be fine with whatever you choose. Beware that Nvidia cards have driver issues, they’re fixable but if you do have an Nvidia card, I’d just use the built in graphics chip for trying out Linux at first.
Don’t start with arch, btw.
Beware that Nvidia cards have driver issues, they’re fixable but if you do have an Nvidia card, I’d just use the built in graphics chip for trying out Linux at first.
Well, shit. Extra work for me. I knew I should have waited for the AMD series to be in stock…
Ehhh it’s not as bad as it used to be. Depending on the distro you might have some finagling to install it to begin with but otherwise their drivers tend to be fine.
It is however much nicer when you can just boot up a bog standard kernel and not have to worry about installing third party drivers, but it’s not the end of the world if you do have to toss some third party drivers in there
The os itself doesn’t require a whole lot of learning, if you stick to something user friendly like mint cinnamon. Key differences are how you install programs and drivers. File structure is very different. After two years of daily driving mint cinnamon, I find it more difficult to do basic stuff in windows, especially 11. If it feels intimidating, the recommended approach is to try it out on another pc, dualboot, or use it in a virtual machine.
You can. Now it’s mostly games with kernel anti-cheat that don’t work.
For epic and gog you can use the heroic launcher. For ther stuff with an installer, you can use wine to install it and manually add the exe to steam.
Ugh I have ONE game that’s 20 years old and does not work on Linux whatsoever. It’s an extremely important game to me because my best friends and I play together. We’re the only people who play it anymore. I can’t live without it, so I’m stuck on Windows for my main game machines.
My other machines? Linux lawl
Which is it?
It’s a Half Life 1 mod called “The Specialists”.
I’m shocked that doesn’t work. Have you tried using Xash3D? What versions of WINE/Proton have you tried?
Even with wine profile and setting Windows version to “emulate”?
Unfortunately yes D:
Why won’t you share which game it is? :)
I did in another comment~ it’s a Half Life 1 mod called “The Specialists”. It’s amazing.
Kung fu only or see who clicks faster with 5-7?
Hahaha a person of culture.
I’m huge on the Contender. I’m terrible at naked kung fu.
I have the least experience amogus my friend group but sometimes I do a bit of blow while playing… Every time I do, I top the leaderboards. It’s wild. PED.
I played this a lot back in the day online, and it was the absolute jam at LAN parties. Happy to hear people still keep the magic going
I have the same issue. I have a 10 year old laptop that I use as well. My solution was to dual boot Linux mint & Win10. Most of the time I use Mint on that computer and load the windows only when playing that game.
But…
Check here: protondb.com
There are a few multiplayer games that don’t work, but most do. Basically every singleplayer game does. It doesn’t matter where you download it. Steam makes it slightly more convenient, but Heroic Games Launcher, or others, make it pretty easy to add any executable from anywhere to it and runs it.
Conversely, I’m coming to the conclusion that I could probably live with just a steam deck, instead of a laptop etc. A portable screen, or my projector, my nice Bluetooth mouse and keyboard, and I reckon it’ll do everything I really need day-to-day.
I ditched my laptop for a steam deck. I use a desktop at home and whenever I need to go to the office I just bring the deck and some peripherals.
Honestly, dont install Linux. There is absolutely no reason for you to do so. The fact is Linux will NEVER run all Windows games, it is simply impossible. Furthermore Linux will never run exactly like Windows or look exactly like Windows. So as a Linux user, just install Windows 11.
That’s probably true. Windows cannot run all Windows games either.
Voice of reason right here
Games and especially modding. I’m holding on to 10 until I can’t. Then i’ll figure out Linux.
tip: Windows 10 21h2 IoT Enterprise LTSC is supported until 2032
Honestly Windows 11 isn’t terrible. It is mostly the same as Windows 10 except more demanding for seemingly no reason.
I’ve tried it a couple times and I hate it. The UI sucks, I can’t find shit, and they’ve stripped back control panel even further. Tried to help my mother with virtual disc’s and you can’t simply mount them anymore, instead there was some strange 3rd-party tool I’d never heard of and it didn’t even export files that were too deep in the folder tree. Fucking useless.
All the bloatware sucks, search defaulting to AI and Bing instead of your own computer sucks. Removing administrative controls sucks.
But I’m a visual designer and the market needs powerful industry-ready software like Adobe and Affinity. I can’t design publishing in fucking GIMP. The Linux alternatives aren’t enough. I’m considering using a Linux home machine with Mac for work but the apps I own already are Microsoft so it would be very expensive to switch. So I’ll probably end up using W11 and just complain the whole time.
Coming from windows 10, last year I tested installing linux mint which is one of the most accessible distros. I found that around a third of the stuff I had running perfectly under Win10 didn’t work. I didn’t find alternatives that were good enough either…
So I said fuck it and did a clean windows 11 install, It’s been a month now and I can really say that it’s way easier to upgrade to windows 11 and turn off all the shit, than to deal with all the stuff that won’t run under linux.
Hopefully this changes in a few more years…
I jumped ship from windows 10 to Linux on August and it’s been smooth I have found alternatives for everything, but to be fair I used a lot of foss already on Windows 10.
Started with Debian but although I love it for my homelab I didn’t like it being behind on KDE release so I switched to endeavourOS and I just love it.
there are no settings for all the shit, just some of it, that Microsoft is permitting to switch off. you therefore just have a half-still-shit-on system. that’s totally fine, i don’t expect anyone to invest time into anything. we ain’t got much to start with. but no one using windows is really in control
When I get back to my personal computer, I’m going to finally move to Linux. I’m a developer primarily on Microsoft technologies, but I’m willing to see if there is a way for me to work on Linux and branch out to other tech.
Vscode and dotnet core (5+) work well on linux
You can also run SQL Server via docker
Do you even need docker for MS-SQL?
I run Arch, so docker was the easiest method of installation.
Rather than try and figure out how to install a .deb manually (and lose package manager perks)
My rule with trying a new install is to “try docker first” and if it doesn’t work then I don’t bother trying to debug docker because it’s usually easier to just try native OS stuff.
But when docker works it’s always great. Most of the time it works perfectly and I have only ever had problems when I need cuda support and their is some version mismatch with some random half ass DockerFile someone made.
For the most basic casual PC gamer SteamOS will be a game changer once they add more hardware support for it.
Bazzite wants to say hello
So does Nobara.
This keeps getting brought up, but the reality is that there is nothing special about SteamOS 3. If people want a SteamOS-like OS (Immutable, Steam/Proton integrated, Steam Big Picture as Primary interface), then it already exists. Chimera, Bazzite, probably others. The only thing Valve could realistically improve on is the installation experience.
SteamOS’s only real advantage is that it is hardware restricted. Valve is able to test against a narrow field of hardware and insure a high degree of stability because of it.
You mean Nvidia hardware. Nvidia purposefully sucks overall on Linux. Don’t reply with “mine works great” because you’re lying or haven’t had an issue yet. Fuck Nvidia.
This is gonna be an unpopular opinion here but telling people who have used Windows their entire lives to just switch to Linux as if it’s that easy is entirely unhelpful and makes the Linux community look elitist and out of touch.
I mean… they are out of touch. I’m sure its possible to have a pain free switch over but when I had trouble the advice was interspersed with quite a few caveats. In essence Linux is ‘easy to setup but…’ Still gonna try again though, also guys that laptop you all said was dying because linux made it crash is still working fine on windows with no sign of trouble.
It’s easier to use than Windows
Just give GUI troubleshooting instead of CLI
It’s easier to use than Windows
LOL, good one!
I especially loved the user friendliness of my distro randomly disconnecting my BT mouse and refusing to reconnect. Had to edit grub to get it back to working order.
Or how I changed the lock screen image through settings. Now I can see it - in Settings. Only. Because if I lock my device, I still see the old one.
Or how on Kubuntu, my previous distro, the applications’ menu (the one with “File”, “View”, “Help”, etc.) just disappeared from all apps. Spent two days trying to sort it out and ended up switching to Tuxedo OS.
Such an easy to use OS, especially for those who’ve never done one bit of troubleshooting themselves!
Spoken like someone who hasn’t had to troubleshoot Windows
Could that be because he’s had fewer issues with Windows and hasn’t had a need to troubleshoot it?
Windows 11 is a shitty version of Windows, but it’s not Windows ME or Vista. It sucks because of the arbitrary CPU and TPM requirements, plus having AI forced into a user’s desktop. Not to mention Microsoft is dragging its feet fixing performance issues in Explorer.
It’s still very stable on good hardware with stable drivers. Point out the actual shit parts of Windows, not lazy callbacks to the days of Windows 98.
2080 ti and 128gb of ram - it is definitely not stable and unlike Linux isn’t ready out of the box
So you can afford 128GB of ram, a motherboard that can support that, a processor that can address that… and you’re running a 2080ti?
It’s such an odd configuration I wouldn’t be surprised if the Nvidia driver were causing the issue. Contrary to the concept of a “unified driver,” the code for your GPU probably hasn’t been touched by nvidia in a while. Either that, or maybe you’ve got all that hardware, but you’re running Windows 8 or something else odd.
You seem to be confused. We’re talking about an “OS for the masses”. What you’re talking about is so far beyond the “high end for the top tier enthusiasts” that it’s not even funny.
If Windows doesn’t work on that, then it’s not for the masses
It seems like a weird middle-ground that might be used in a weird 5 year old server. Probably not great for gaming. But I too had stability issues with all of my windows installations. (1.5 laptops, a prebuilt and later the machine I use now which I started using with windows) All of them had regular BSODs (though the laptops were a little older and might not always have been that way) and one pc even broke the Windows Bootloader so that I couldn’t boot it anymore.
Life is a long learning experience. Installing (or asking that nerdy relative to install) a Linux distro is no biggie anymore and when picking a good all-around distro like Mint, for example, pretty much anyone who has some basic experience on computers can do it.
I do agree that life is a learning experience, but I might say that you’re overestimating what “basic experience on computers” means, and I tend to find that this is fairly typical of people who have more advanced skills because this stuff is basic to us. But we can sometimes lack perspective in that regard.
Basic experience on computers for most people means “can use Office apps, can send emails, can more or less use the internet”. Essentially, they can use the computer for their work or for some light entertainment. It certainly doesn’t mean that they know how to or that they even can configure the BIOS to boot from a USB, or for that matter what the BIOS is or that it exists. It doesn’t mean that they can use the terminal, or use WINE to run their favourite Windows applications or troubleshoot an operating system that is entirely alien to them. I’d even go as far as to say that most people don’t even know what an operating system is - to them, Windows is the computer and they don’t know or care about anything different. This is the kind of person I’m talking about. Everything you said might as well be Ancient Greek to that person.
I can read the manual that comes with a camera and it will teach me how to set it up and take some pictures. Most (at least all that I’ve used) linux distros have something similar. Unless there’s some sort of incompatibility with your system it should not be an issue. If you do have problems you get to choose whether or not to troubleshoot them but in my experience doing so on Linux is a lot easier.
When I first set up Ubuntu I was astonished by the fact that I could just download a windows executable and double-click to start it. But I loved how simple it was to download stuff using the package manager.
I had a bit of experience with the Windows terminal and had been coding for two years at that point so I was able to almost fully switch over within two weeks and found it significantly easier.
I get it. That’s why I included the part about “the family tech guy”. And I think some sparkle of interest must be had in order to learn about that stuff. Or any stuff, like learning Ancient Greek. One has to be able to use a web search (or write a prompt to an LLM) for “beginner install linux” or some such. If the spark isn’t there, maybe buying a new Windows/Mac is the correct way to go.
To a newbie, Windows is just as alien as Linux. If someone has no computer experience, they have to learn Linux, Windows or Mac anyway. May as well get them started with the software that isn’t actively trying to invade their privacy and paste ads in their face.
A friend of mine was a console gamer and we convinced him to game on a PC.
We walked him through an Arch install, via the terminal and the wiki for his first build. I think it took 6 hours to get him to the point where he could reboot into a GUI. He broke something within a few days (an incompletely typed chmod -r command). Then we showed him EndevourOS’s installer and he was back up and running in about 2 hours.
He knows how to use the Arch wiki, he can enable Steam debugging in order to Google any errors that occur, he isn’t scared of the terminal (though he prefers a GUI if possible.
Previously he’d only ever used Windows to run Microsoft Office in a corporate environment. Now he has, on his own, installed a NAS with an ZFS array running Docker, Jellyfin, Sonarr, Radarr, etc. He doesn’t even have Windows installed (and would probably have a hard time learning it now)
Most people who are really against Linux are Windows users who have spent years learning Windows and don’t want to spend the time to learn something different. Sure, it takes some time, but the skill is well worth the time that it takes to develop.
