Credit: u/manchesterMan0098
I don’t think therapy is a particularly good substitute for having loved ones you can be intimate with. Nor is relationships necessarily tools for learning to deal with every dysfunction that one could have.
It’s the exact inverse; therapy is a tool for learning how to deal with your deficiencies, while relationships are there for having loved ones you can be intimate with
I think a modern dysfunction of intergender relationship is an increase in transactional intimacy. Whether it’s dating, sex, or emotional, I think a lot of men are paying for their intimacy.
There is a disconnect between people noticing that love is not unconditional, and thinking love is completely transactional.
Of course if love is never useful for one of the participating parties involved, then this/their love will fade. But people interpret this fact in the way that love should always be exactly as useful for all parties involved all the time.
But in reality, it should be fine if sometimes maybe one side is more selfish, less giving, sometimes the other side. Sometimes one side gives more emotional support, but the other side is more physically caring. And so on. Love doesn’t need to be perfectly equal, it just needs to make all parties involved better than if they were without the love.
But when you’re very competitive and selfish, and it’s hard to quantify each person’s usefulness to each other, it’s easy to always think that what you give is more than what someone else gives. Constantly having arguments about how you think things should be.
I’m not positive you mean this, but you’re implying men shouldn’t pay for their intimacy? You think it should be free? Everyone pays, but in healthy relationship the “payment” is emotional intimacy, acts of service, words of affection etc. No one is walking up to a stranger and banging them without giving anything. Heck even in sex alone there’s “transactions.” During foreplay, I get you a little turned on, you get me a little turned on, I escalate, you escalate.
I mean literal payment, with money.
It can easily be a case of personal perception of a relationship, at least my generation was constantly told their only value in life is utilitarian, when that’s your mind set you’re going to assume that’s the only value you have in relationships as well. Again, therapy would help a lot so men can see that their partners do value them outside of their assigned value culture.
I agree with what you and @Azzu @[email protected] are saying, in the vein that traditional gender roles have done more harm than good.
I think the culture is shifting but there’s also a weird backlash to the change, like the toxic Masculinity of Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson, or the Trad Wife movement, or the rise of Only Fans and other pay-to-play parasitic economies.
I think a certain subgroup of men are willing to give money in exchange for intimacy as a way to exercise power in that dynamic, as if it lessens their vulnerability.
Relationships should of course be mutually beneficial, and therefore are inherently transactional. But I also find it ironic that whether men paying for online dating apps to meet women, paying for drinks, paying for sex, or paying for therapy, it’s all hitting their wallets.
You gotta remember that the traditional gender roles come from somewhere. There are many that detest them so much that they can’t even imagine that there must be something in the human psyche that came up with them.
There are plenty of people that know about the traditional gender roles doing more harm than good, yet still choosing to mostly follow them, in a non-toxic way, because they are what actually feels best for them.
I think the radical feminist push of trying to achieve perfect outcome equality in all areas is as misguided as the rigid, inflexible attempt to keep traditional gender roles completely intact.
Naturally, if people notice a shift too far in a certain direction, they try to work against it, and most of the time this working against it is too far in the wrong direction as well.
Women: “I want a guy in touch with his feelings.”
Men: “I want a woman I can share my feelings with.”
Internet people: “Women aren’t your mommy, go see a therapist with your dumb feelings.”
Me, too moron to interact with human: “Hello kitty, wanna watch King Of the Hill again? Me too, I’ll get the blanket.”
Sorry, not sorry. If he begins this with “Men do not need a therapist.” (And many men do) And then declare that the women men need be soft and caring while verbally presenting the man as a hero who fights his daily battles… that’s just toxic bullshit as fuck.
I’m okay with somebody accepting and wanting traditional gender roles, everyone’s got their own taste in potential partners and need to find the person right for them.
But declaring what “men” need and then demanding not only traditional but toxically overblown gender roles for everyone is just… BAH! And the disapproval for therapy, or telling “men” that they don’t need therapy, only a mommy, when many of us do indeed need therapy… that’s just indicative of the most bullshit incel-alpha-baby-needs-a-mommy mindset.
If you’re a guy and in touch with your feelings (like me, for example), yes, lean on your partner if you need to and they are okay with it. If you are an emotional person, be emotional. But don’t demand or expect to just be able to vomit your shit on your partner and they being okay with it and then cleaning the corner of your mouth with a tissue… Your partner is not free therapy, do not treat them like somebody providing a service.
The guy in the screenshot is not in touch with his feelings.
Yeah, in touch with your feelings != dumping your feelings out of a firehose at a partner who’s expected to just soak them all up once a week, then pretending they don’t exist the rest of the time.
I also suspect that by intimacy in this case the first guy means bangmaid
It’s a gradient, but this particular case is distasteful because the man is expecting his partner to do literally free therapy, rather than work with a professional. It’s more akin to treating your partner as an emotional dumping ground than opening up.
If this is happening in the context of a more equitable relationship, where they both take turns supporting each other, then it’s totally different, though.
Maybe he literally has no problems besides no gf?
It doesn’t even sound like he wants free therapy. He wants a woman to kiss him on the head and tell him what a good boy he is and how hard he worked, while ignoring any problems he might have. I don’t see a therapist’s role as “nurturing and restoring” unless you’re dating them.
Women aren’t paid enough to be both your bangmaid and your therapist.
How about if you’re their bangmaid and therapist right back? Sounds like a good deal to me
Women only want one thing and it’s fucking disgusting.
Its a peg or be pegged world.
But why XOR not OR?
Por que no los dos?
Nor do I, that’s why I prefer sexless silence with my partners, just sit there and listen to the forks clink on the plate. I don’t need to hear about her stupid day and it’s not my job to make her cum goddammit!
(/s ffs. Do you people want romantic partners or roommates?)
Between Two Ferns: Dating Edition
Men can always care for each other and stop expecting women to do all the work.
“Stop expecting women to do all the work.” All the work?
So men should be expected to do the (actual) work and the emotional work?
So what good are women? Baby ovens?
I could explain you, but your wouldn’t understand
You incels are so weird.
Lol. If you only knew.
Or we can just produce fewer of them.
Yeah this is something I’ve been trying to walk the talk about.
I joined an adults sports league and have a few friends I call almost daily on rotation (whether they want it or not lol) and I’ve started feeling a lot more fulfilled and less anxious.
Most of those friends expect my calls now, and I get questioned if I can’t make it to a practice or game. It feels good to have your presence desired, whether it’s in a romantic or platonic relationship. There’s an epidemic of men who think that that void can only be filled with a lover.
I wish everyone would follow your example
I wouldn’t recommend therapy unless you suffer from a debilitating mental disorder that is responsible for you not being able to participate in life in a meaningful way. Just my opinion.
That is true, but a “debilitating mental disorder” means completely different things to every person. So, you should go to therapy if you feel you need it, which means that trying to decide for someone makes no sense at all.
I didnt decide anything for anyone other than myself, which makes it an opinion. That is how opinions work.
I think everyone would benefit from a tool box / wellness discovery session that individual research or time spent with a therapist can offer. Essentially build out a mental health “first aid kit” for yourself in times of emergency. Many don’t - and so their first serious crisis (especially with men) ends violently.
Even if there’s 0 wrong in your life - knowing what things make you well and how to leverage them when you eventually lose someone you care about or have to cope with severe and debilitating grief is important.
Saying you don’t need to buy a med kit unless you have a severed artery sort of means you will be behind the coping and recovery process. This can be accomplished in 1 or 2 sessions with support or individual research.
Just my counter point as someone who did psych screening services - coached people with 0 psych / mental health issues prior out of self harm scenarios and got them in my car or an ambo to go to the hospital. But also never went to or believed in therapy for myself (and had my first session a decade after that job at the age of 35). I should have gone earlier. But I was fine and successful without it. Married / promoted / succeeding in life - So didn’t.
I completely agree with you. I dunno who this alexnroberto guy is but based on a 2 second search, he comes off as one of those manosphere dudes so I guess we can assume that his comment isn’t based on mutual support, but only the woman supporting the man. I disagree with that world view, but if the message stood alone, I don’t see the issue in partners leaning on one another instead of going to therapy for every little thing that’s wrong in their lives.
Be like going to the dentist to have him brush and floss your teeth for you.
There is also this one uncomfortable truth that the therapy crowd doesn’t really want to acknowledge and that is that therapy is a luxury for the rich. Telling someone to go to therapy is actually pretty rude because not everyone can afford to throw thousands at therapy no matter how much or how little they need it.
I speak from experience. Therapy, if you are poor, can do more harm than good.
Not everyone lives in th USA. We have therapy covered by public health for free in my country.
I don’t live in the US either. I actually live in Denmark and while we have free healthcare, it doesn’t cover everything. I think they changed it in recent years so that youths would be able to get free therapy, but when I was young, there wasn’t any of that. You could get 10 sessions with a therapist and pay less thanks to insurance, but after those ten sessions it was full price if you wanted to keep the same therapist and I couldn’t afford that at the time. I ended up having to change therapists every ten sessions and by the end I was worse off mentally than before I started. Hence why i say that therapy is a luxury for the rich. It still is today if you are over a certain age. I could probably afford therapy if I really needed it, but it would still be expensive and with how things are going in the world, I would probably not spend money on a therapist anytime soon unless it was a life or death situation.
I’m glad therapy is free in your country though. Where do you live?
Not disagreeing, just see this association with expensive therapy and the USA a lot. Mental health care, as well as dental, is out of pocket or has a large co pay in a lot of countries that otherwise have a good healthcare system.
So? Not everyone lives in your country either.
OP is right, many poor people don’t have therapy covered and that’s a calculus they have to deal with.
You rubbing in your free therapy doesn’t help anyone in countries that aren’t yours.
Whoa, hold the fuck on. Are you seriously suggesting that expensive, paid mental health care be used to treat serious mental health problems, rather than as a way of dismissing half the planets emotions?
Men need a loving relationship and therapy.
I would say that, conditional to the man having a partner, intimacy is a hell of a lot more accessible than therapy. Provided that intimacy is not rationed or made conditional, this could provide more lasting and more timely healing than therapy as well.
With that said, we really need to normalize men seeking therapy. There are far too many men where the conditions above are not met, and so could and would benefit more from therapy than intimacy.
men dont need therapy when they have meth, coke and fent
*want
To all those saying, “but why shouldn’t men want to be cared for?”
This meme plays into a narrative the makes women subservient.
It suggests that only men “battle”, and that being a man and “battling” entities them to care by women.
No where in this is acknowledgement that women have burdens too, and that all people benefit from care.
No where in this is any hint of reciprocity. If anything, it implies that the “joy” of taking care of “her man” should be enough.
No. Walk the fuck on. Having a penis doesn’t entitle you to one-sided care.
The other thing implied by this - that women should ‘naturally’ be able to fix ‘her man’. But if a woman in broken? Oof - ‘she has Daddy issues’ and better fix herself, right?
And what if a woman tries to fix ‘her man’ and fails? Oh look - isnt that convenient - society just took all his faults and made them her failures. Wow! Who wouldn’t want to sign up for that??
And just look at that success rate. You can count up the number of women killed by intimate partners and see how great this plan is.
Society really needs to get past this childish narrative that tells men they should expect to find a manic pixie dream girl who lives only to make him happy. Men make fun of girls for believing in Prince Charming, but this is truly the more destructive fairy tale.
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¿Por qué no los dos?
Someone who would lay down in bed with me and hold me while I cry would be a tremendous help to my mental health, but a therapist would be real nice, too. Too bad it’s a five-month wait to get in to see one around here.
I wonder if there’s a market for male-centric therapy. As in “I’ve got a loada wood that needs chopping. Come chop wood with me and we’ll talk about stuff”. You know, give 'em something to do with their hands while they talk. Obviously you probably couldn’t do that with someone who’s known for being aggressive and has a criminal record, but someone who has trouble talking about their feelings and doesn’t feel comfortable just sitting in a room or on a Teams call and would rather feel like they’re accomplishing something.
I just go out drinking with my buds and we vent about shit. There’s rarely any solutions but that’s because the shit we’re venting about is the world falling apart, not anything we can fix. But it does help a little to get it out of our system.
This seems like a remarkably good idea but I still wouldn’t gender it. Say it’s “hands on therapy for physically oriented people” or something. I’m sure there are plenty of non-male humans who would benefit.
Hell, it might even work for my girlfriend who will go to insane lengths to avoid sitting down and having a conversation about anything personal. If it works, I owe you an upvote or something.
I’m a non-human who would absolutely love to be building shit while talking during therapy instead of using a fidget toy while avoiding eye contact because looking at someone looking at me and being vulnerable at the same time is NOT IT for me (yet).
It definitely works. Get into some hard work with another person - sweat, scream, and get bloody together. They’ll start talking deep shit soon enough (and so will you).
And it already exists, called occupational therapy or ergotherapy.
Occupational therapy is a thing, but it is a very different thing. Occupational therapy is part of rehab that helps patients regain or retain activities of daily living like dressing, bathing, and feeding themselves, etc.
And it can mean building something with them and then talking about how they are. I work closely together with OTs who do exactly that.
Yeah, it does exist. Usually in group settings. But not usually with sharp objects.
Like the boy scouts for adults?
That’s called triangulation! Focusing on a different task makes it easier to have vulnerable conversations.
I don’t want to imagine what the insurance would be on a service like this. Customers chopping their own wood. That’s an OSHA violation waiting to happen.
Probably no worse than the bars where you can throw axes.
Does OSHA even still exist?
Well it’s a federal agency right so I assume everyone’s been fired.
Safety is so woke.
Men need friends, not bros.
I don’t like legitimizing Freud cause like all his ideas that permeated popular culture are total bull but holy shit, paging Dr Freud.
He’s next tweet… “Use my promo code to join Andrew Tates Hustlers Academy.”
