Germany has recently taken a chilling new step, signalling its willingness to use political views as grounds to curb migration. Authorities are now moving to deport foreign nationals for participating in pro-Palestine actions. As I reported this week in the Intercept, four people in Berlin – three EU citizens and one US citizen – are set to be deported over their involvement in demonstrations against Israel’s war on Gaza. None of the four have been convicted of a crime, and yet the authorities are seeking to simply throw them out of the country.
The accusations against them include aggravated breach of the peace and obstruction of a police arrest. Reports from last year suggest that one of the actions they were alleged to have been involved in included breaking into a university building and threatening people with objects that could have been used as potential weapons.
But the deportation orders go further. They cite a broader list of alleged behaviours: chanting slogans such as “Free Gaza” and “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, joining road blockades (a tactic frequently used by climate activists), and calling a police officer a “fascist”. Read closely, the real charge appears to be something more basic: protest itself.
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FREE PALESTINE 🇵🇸
Strawman! There is an active ongoing genocide against Palestinians right now, that is the reality, not the one you just made up
Can you read?
Wow I feel like in tumblr.
Me: Genocide bad
You: GENOCIDE BAAAD
Yet you think we are enemies.
Your edit is literal cancer and just made up by you.
Same as your argument that talks about something unrelated to whatever happened in Germany. Strawman argument, like you said.
And you deleted your edit, hypocrite racist fucking asshole. Karma will be a bitch to your Nazi ass
Wow you are really insane. What are you even talking about
How tf does me being anti-genocide, supporting free palestine and peace equals to a nazi? Take the pills dude, you people remind me of 4chan conspiracy theorists and I think not a single person here really understood my point (that you should respect Germany’s sensitive laws if you wish to live there)
You’re being downvoted for your strawman framing. Recognising that Netanyahu’s actions in Gaza (and farther, now) are unethical and illegal is absolutely not the same as calling for another Jewish genocide. Being pro-Palestine does not mean you’re calling for the destruction of Israel or the murder of Jews.
There seems to be a fairly successful effort to frame any opposition of Israel’s actions as antisemitic, which is a disgraceful attempt to use the suffering of Jewish ancestors as a shield against criticism today.
What? We’re talking about the person from Germany chanting “From river to the sea” thingy, which was made illegal in Germany.
Of course what that war criminal is doing in Gaza is beyond unethical, but both my comment and article is about what happened in Germany.
If you wish to live there, try not breaking laws that Germans are super sensitive about. That’s it.
EDIT: You guys read the article, right? …right?
Ah ok, fair enough. I did read the article, but I didn’t realise that was what you were talking about - perhaps quoting the bit you’re responding to would stop me and others being confused.
From the river to the sea Palestine will be free
Germans are super sensitive about it because they exported billions of euros of weapons to Israel. Follow the money
Completely false.
Those are reperation payments from WW2 and Germany stopped weapon exports to Israel.
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If reducing weapon exports by nearly 99% (going from billions to millions to thousands to no approvals in last 6 months is insane difference, wake up) is still bad for you, then… ehh, you people are out for blood. You do not care about any form of sane approach to the problems, you wish to reach for extrememities and do things that would make even Natenyahu (hopefully wrote that right) proud.
I do not feel safe here, I feel like in some radicalized place that wants to kill, kill, kill.
The responses I’m getting are insane, thankfully moderators here seem to be doing a fine job.
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You make up people calling for a Jewish genocide in this thread, but you still can’t bring yourself to use the word Genocide for the state that set up torture rape camps that they used to rape doctors to death.
Why the double standard? Why does calling for a single state with equal rights for citizens constitute calling for a genocide, but you can’t call the country that has bombed and destroyed every hospital and school while continuing to block all access to food genocidal?
Why the double standard?
who is calling for this?
Germany has been asleep for way too long. They are deep in migration crisis.
People love comparing German to Nazis, even though it’s been 100 years, yet the same people buy all their shit from China, That literally genocides people today.
Where’s the freedom of expression?
I don’t even like the phrase “from the river to the sea…” because it implies denying the two-state solution, but even people I disagree with should be free to profess their political views without fear.
That’s a good point, because the protestors took a building by force and threatened staff and students with violence, while also smashing electronics into pieces.
I don’t think protests should go as far as to instill fear into innocent citizens.
When it comes to accusations in a functional state, innocence must be presumed. If they are brought to trial and fairly tried, they should then receive the appropriate sentence to their crimes, which could very well involve deportation. It’s trivial, but according to the article the individuals in question were not tried and convicted for any crimes. The current scenario is simply a violation of freedom of expression.
Ah yes they “threatened people with tools that might be considered as weapons”.
But of course they won’t tell what it is, that’s probably sound ridiculous
Meanwhile Japan is sitting there laughing, as they never really apologized for their warcrimes
& now are engaging in illegal whaling
Uh… Arresting people for criticizing the government is Nazi behavior.
Yes we have too little people coming here to fix the baby boomer hole. We need more.
Also refugees ≠ imigrants
Also everyone trades with china. Not saying its good. Just saying this isnt a thing anyone is not doing
The extra fun part is that all post industrial revolution countries have flat or falling populations. This includes Europe, Russia, China, Japan, South Korea, North America and parts of South America, and parts of the South Pacific. All of these regions need to import people if they want to keep using the same productivity and economic systems. The sheep lack of people is going to start causing major issues on all fronts.
This is going to put nations in a position to compete for immigrants with each other. It’s going to be a buyer’s market for young adults. Collectively, they need to make their labor more dear and nations need to treat people better to get and keep them in the future.
There’s plenty of material on the stages of population change in developing nations: https://youtu.be/Ufmu1WD2TSk
The demographic transition model continues to be reasonable on track around the world: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition
The article seems to say very little about the 4 people. What it does say is pretty light on facts about what they were involved in. Were they vistors? Students? Do they live in Germany? Do they work there? Have families there? Some factual context would be nice. And how/when were they arrested?
The author of the article links to their own earlier article in the Intercept that goes in detail: https://theintercept.com/2025/03/31/germany-gaza-protesters-deport/
The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest — a so-called de-arrest aimed at blocking a fellow protesters’ detention. None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university. Instead, the deportation order cites the suspicion that they took part in a coordinated group action. (The Free University told The Intercept it had no knowledge of the deportation orders.)
Some of the allegations are minor. Two, for example, are accused of calling a police officer “fascist” — insulting an officer, which is a crime. Three are accused of demonstrating with groups chanting slogans like “From the river to the sea, Palestine Will be Free” — which was outlawed last year in Germany — and “free Palestine.” Authorities also claim all four shouted antisemitic or anti-Israel slogans, though none are specified.
Two are accused of grabbing an officers’ or another protesters’ arm in an attempt to stop arrests at the train station sit-in.
O’Brien, one of the Irish citizens, is the only one of the four whose deportation order included a charge – the accusation that he called a police officer a “fascist” – that has been brought before a criminal court in Berlin, where he was acquitted.
All four are accused, without evidence, of supporting Hamas, a group Germany has designated as a terrorist organization.
Can’t read German. Is the article about how the group they were allegedly with did things? Because the article I linked to says they were targeted by association.
As I mentioned under your other comment quoting this article:
They only describe what was done at the protests in general. I did not see any mention of the police even accusing them of being directly involved in mayor crimes, let alone proving it.
Yes, it is not ok, to vandalize the university and threaten people with axes. And those who did that should be persecuted for it. But it is not ok to “make an example” of someone who just participated in the same protest.
Thats true
Then take your posts down and stop spreading misinfo.
After Reading additional sources it seems very much certain that they were not just some innocent bystanders:
[…] Zu den vermummten Personen sollen Kasia W. aus Polen, Cooper L. aus den USA, Shane O. und Roberta M. aus Irland gehört haben. Die vier beteiligten sich an mehreren propalästinensischen Aktionen.
[…] The masked individuals are said to have included Kasia W. from Poland, Cooper L. from the USA, Shane O. and Roberta M. from Ireland. The four took part in several pro-Palestinian actions.
„The masked individuals“ refers to those with the axes.
(https://www.zeit.de/campus/2025-04/abschiebung-berlin-propaleastina-protest-usa)
Hence, I kindly decline your request. Obviously, I agree that there should be strong evidence for all of this. Lets see if they have any.
What kind of fascist world are we living in that “insulting a police officer” can be a crime?
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In Germany it is generally a crime to insult anyone.
I think that itself is not bad. What makes it bad is the general tendency of German police to only follow up on that when it affects someone with power (politician, police, etc.). And of course in this case that they punished someone for it while they were not able to prove it in court.
Which is almost always the case with such laws. Never enforced unless it’s simple or if it’s a person of influence, solved no matter how complicated within a few days. Solved might even be a bit of a stretch here too though.
I don’t know, I think that’s pushing too far personally. In Australia it’s against the law to insult someone based off things like race, gender or things of that nature. That is super important IMO. But I could call a cop a pig and get away with it.
Nope…I can only handle one Western country going down the batshit stupidity rabbit hole at a time.
How can Germany “deport” an EU citizen? Is there any way for them to block an EU citizen from coming back into Germany?
How can Germany “deport” an EU citizen?
Have a half-dozen men with guns grab the person, shove them into the back of a squad car, drive them to a jail, make them wait in the jail until transport can be arranged, drag them to a plane, force them onto the plane, fly the plane to an Israeli-occupied territory, kick the person out of the plane into the hands of some genocidal Israeli lunatics, and leave.
Is there any way for them to block an EU citizen from coming back into Germany?
Tear up their travel documents, for starters. Sending them to a country where they are at extreme risk of permanent arrest, torture, and execution also works.
None of that is true. There is due process, no hit squads. They will have the ability to bring this to court (a process which they already started). And deportation would happen to where they come from, so other EU countries and the US.
Ok so just like in America
Not at all, nothing in the post you replied to is actually true.
Yeah, that’s the craziest thing. EU citizenship means you have freedom to be in any EU country. There is no “deporting” a citizen of the EU if you’re a country in the EU.
Yet here we are…
Yeah that is why “deportation” is the wrong word being used… It is an “opinion” piece from one Berlin based journalist, that obviously lacks some legal details or is trying to use a catchy headline. I especially like it when the article says the used “objects that could have been used as potential weapons”. It was fucking AXES they used and obviously the Uni employees were horrified when it happened. Not saying that is right to restrict EU citizens movement in such cases. I’d prefer a proper trial before that happens but they certainly didn’t behave very well.
In case of the US citizen I guess you could call it a deportation/expulsion.
Some translated legal background for you guys: Strictly speaking, in the case of EU citizens, this is not referred to as expulsion/deportation, but as loss of freedom of movement. ‘EU citizens entitled to freedom of movement can lose their right of residence for reasons of public order, security or health,’ according to the website of the Federal Ministry of the Interior.
Particularly stringent conditions apply to the loss of residence on grounds of public order or security. ‘There must be an actual and sufficiently serious threat to public order or security that affects a fundamental interest of society. This threat must be based on the personal behaviour of the EU citizen,’ writes the Federal Ministry of the Interior on its website.
People who do not come from the EU are referred to as deportees. This is the case here for one person. If a person from a third country jeopardises public safety and order, the free democratic basic order or other significant public interests through their stay, they can be expelled.
It can’t, municipalities and states can, and the EU law allowing for this requires showing they’re a threat to public safety (which is why it’s not a federal matter the federation doesn’t do public safety). The Berlin state government wants to expel some people, so far no other state has made similar moves, and it’s very questionable whether Berlin courts will let them do it. And then there’s federal courts. And then the ECJ.
I’m EU citizen, I go into Germany if I so please. I’ll do it and I’ll do it again.
German unification was a mistake.
So, once a nazi, always a nazi, it seems. Carved Hakenkreuzes in foreheads for all of them.
This was maybe news a week ago but these four dudes are the exception that make the rule, tbh. Germany is cool.
EDIT: And they weren’t protestors, they were holding axes, terrorizing university employees, chanting “from the river to the sea”, and calling the police fascists.
No they weren’t. More straight up lies from lemmyworldists. Suprising? Not at all
I don’t think you’re going to convince many people with this.
Ever heard the term “presumption of innocence”?
Personally I think swinging axes around is pretty mild compared to all the war profiterring germany is doing, but even if it’s true, they would have no issue establishing who’s wrong in court.
But hey, I don’t know why so many of yee are so bent on defending genocide.
In germany you are allowed to sue the state. If they felt like they were mistreated they would have already sued. No answer is also an answer
Lmao how naive can you be.
Technically, they are fighting it in court as of the article I read a while ago, but I don’t think there is any judgement for or against them, yet.
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Fuck israel, but this reads like rebranded antisemitism
It’s not unfair to say, given recent events, that Israel has an unusual amount of influence over Western countries.
Nothing antisemitic about it. Israel has the means and capabilities of running influence operations in a way that Palestine doesn’t.
“Jewish bankers”, however, is a pretty common antisemitic trope so I don’t think you’re wrong about this specific commenter
fascism in Germany! now I’ve heard everything
If you need more proof the lemmy world admins are utter pieces of shit, notice how the genocide denialism is still on while dissenting voices are being erased.
Hell I even saw somebody straight up saying “there is no genocide”
Y’all have your heads so deep in the sand you can’t feel your anus imploding. you are the product if using a free service such as Lemmy or Reddit
You think a person in a position of power won’t let power get to their head? Especially in decentralized, anonymous online forum?
What?
Decentralization literally fights power centralization. There is no inherent position of power.
Anonymization has no talking point in the discussion of virtual internet power points. Only makes people more true to who they are.
Well, power didn’t get to my head as a discord mod. I hate being called “boss” too.
Or they just let you say what you want here… unlike reddit where you catch a ban for upvoting violence.
Just scroll down and see how much messages are being erased
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Bullshit. They work for the status quo as much as Reddit does. They ban anti genocide voices, calls everyone who disagree with them “Russian troll”, and overall are holding the exact same line. I get banned all the time.
You get banned for using sock puppets and insulting people while using them and saying that nowadays Germany and Israel should stop exist. That’s nothing freedom of speech is for. (c/germany mod here)
Just want to state that, I will not reply to responses.
E: nowadays
All right have a nice day
You edited to add ‘nowadays’.
What a cowardly edit.
How was it okay to back the terrorist group ANC (Nelson Mandela was a convicted terrorist) and call for the fall of the Apartheid South African government in the 80’s, yet not okay to call for the downfall of the Apartheid ethnostate that Nelson Mandela said the concentration camp they created (Gaza) was worse then any of the Bantustans created by Apartheid South Africa?
What Israel is doing is quantitatively worse then Apartheid South Africa. Why was calling for the end of that government okay?
$5 says you’re too much of a coward to answer that question, even if only to yourself.
So freedom of speech shouldn’t allow people to say that apartheid South Africa shouldn’t exist? That Nazi Germany shouldn’t be allowed to exist?
I can remember when opposing apartheid ethnostates was the correct moral opinion.
What happened?
What makes Israel different?
Or are double standards proof of anti semitism only when they’re negative?
EDIT: No response needed from moral cowards that would have protected apartheid South Africa, Belgium Congo, or Nazi Germany from criticism that they should not be allowed to exist.
You probably won’t read this, but things like this are EXACTLY why freedom of speech exists.
You would have condemned Nat Turner and justified slavery.
I guess it’s less about freedom of speech and more about not giving fascistic governments ammunition to eradicate Lemmy and instances like this one.
I am 100% certain that intelligence agencies are already monitoring this social network. Going against the status quo necessitates restraint regarding certain thoughts.
I’d argue you can still say these things, but you need to word them wisely. We have to remember they have all the power from the medias to the judicial system.
It’s an era in which they can easily manufacture consent to do whatever they want against what is deem a threat.
Probably the only non-evil response.
It fails the ‘all it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing’ test.
It fails the ‘If I was in Nazi Germany, I would have resisted’ test.
But I suspect that that isn’t the reason used by [email protected]
I would guess that he would have supported Rhodesia if his government said that to oppose them was racist against white people.
There is a line between criticizing a state and arguing for its destruction/dehumanizing their people.
And tbh for my taste that line gets crossed to often in discussions about Israel and Palestine.
Some States do not deserve criticism.
Some States deserve destruction.
The south in the US civil war: deserved to be destroyed.
Nazi Germany: deserved to be destroyed.
All apartheid ethno-states: deserve to be destroyed.
You don’t like that last one? Explain to me why Rhodesia should exist.
It seems to me that people that think arguing for the destruction of apartheid ethnostates is wrong think that way because they are racist against brown people.
Denying the existence of any state is a legitimate political opinion, especially when the given state is commiting genocide. You are the one lumping the people with their state by implying wanting the end of the later means willing harm to the former .
I wouldn’t have to take anti censorship measure if you weren’t censoring
Disinformation is fine, welcome even! But if you’re slightly mean to an obvious troll: insta-gone you are!
- .World mods, being terrible at their jobs
Why bother with the half measures.
Just take the mask off and send them to the torture prison in El Salvador with all the other baselessly accused and right denied.
It really blows my mind. Masha Gessen, Nancy Fraser, Yuval Abraham, Omri Boehm, and also others not mentioned in the article. Who the fuck gave Germany the right to decide who is a good pro-Israel Jew and who is a bad anti-Israel Jew? Germany of all countries, being in the business of labelling Jewish people as acceptable and unacceptable. The fucking nerve on these people.
Germany has public broadcasters, which are controlled by councils made up of representatives of different groups like chourches, unions, enviormental groups and well Jews. That was part of trying to make sure that the Holocaust does not happen again. However the Jewish community in Germany is rather small, due to the Holocaust at about 100k. That group is also unlike American Jews extremly pro Israel. That is why anti zionist Jews are such a problem within Germany. So the Israel lobby works hard to get rid of them.
What the actual fuck is going on with humanity?
People who want extreme ‘order’ are really good at organizing and fund raising, and breaking the law and daring the rest of us to do something about it. People who like making sure everyone has rights and those rights are protected aren’t.
I am not even sure why as a trans person one wants to support an islamic-extremist and authoritarian organization like Hamas. Honestly, I dont get it.
I mean yeah I dont want to make a case of supporting the other side either. But just think would rather wants you dead, Israel, or Hamas? I think I pretty much know the answer.
Yes, you know an answer to irrelevant question. Good job
Is it irrelevant though?
Lets take it to an extreme: Imagine in Gaza there would be a Nazi regime. Nazis who hate trans people and want them dead. Nazis living there with their families, innocent children etc.
I Understand that it would be worthwhile stopping war actions on all those innocent souls, but would I actively advocate for the Nazi party ruling this imaginary Gaza strip? Certainly not.
Hence, get your act together. Support an end of the war on Gaza, support innocent people. Dont support Hamas!
Supporting innocent people would be putting pressure on Izrael to stop killing medics. At the moment it’s Nazis against Nazis. It’s not black and white it’s black and a darker shade of black. If your opponent starts doing war crimes you don’t kill members of red cross.
Fucking seriously. Just how much of the world has always been a bunch of hateful shits who only needed a bigger asshole to kick things off?
