I don’t like smartphones. I use a dumbphone.
But this is a wonderful initiative.
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I wish they could implement the parts of the Pixel phones that allow GrapheneOS to be used.
What parts are these? I’ve always wondered what this was about, why the pixel was the only phone that could support GrapheneOS
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
So, graphene could be put on those phones if the devs wanted to do it, but it would be less secure since the bootloader would remain unlocked.
Also, supporting a small line a phones is probably infinitely easier than a range, of devices, but it would be nice to have another option. Especially now that the Fairphone pice is reasonable.
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
That is not the case. SHIFTmq, Motorola and Fairphone allow the bootloader to be relocked with a custom rom. There are many requirements the Fairphone lacks for GrapheneOS, but relocking the bootloader is not one of them.
Thanks! I guess what I read before was either old or just wrong.
https://www.kuketz-blog.de/weshalb-grapheneos-aktuell-nur-google-pixel-geraete-unterstuetzt/
(From an Interview - The relevant parts are in English)
Security seems not easy.
I mean, you could use CalyxOS
It dosent have such things as 2 factor pin auth for fingerprint, but its the closest to Graphene
Not quite the same. The big thing with GrapheneOS is it can run the actual Google services, but sandboxed. Organic Maps is better than Google Maps in everyway, but it’s routes are so much worse because it has no traffic into to go on. It’s an anticompetitive network effect, but it’s hard to fight without law makers.
Edit: Ok, it is good, but the main thing I like about is the maps can be setup to be as good as ones you’d manually navigate by. A bit like UK’s Ordnance Survey maps.
Organic Maps is better than Google Maps in everyway
It’s really not, here are a few more:
- no reviews for businesses - that’s a huge reason people use Maps
- you have to manually download maps you want to see, and repeat w/ every update
- lots of missing info, especially where I live, and especially businesses
- no satellite images or street view - OSM has it though
That said, I use Organic Maps almost exclusively, and I put in the time to add missing info where I can. I’ve probably added hundreds of places for my area. Basically, when I go somewhere new, if it’s not in OSM, I take a few pictures and add the place when I get home, and I’ll put in the effort to enter hours, phone number, etc from their website. It’s a pain, but hopefully someone down the line appreciates that.
All of that info exists in GM though, so the only reason for me to use OM is stubbornness. OM is fantastic, but it’s hardly “better than Google Maps in every way,” in fact it’s probably worse in most ways. However, I prefer it and will keep using it because I refuse to use Google services.
Ok, I accept all that, but the maps just are better to me. I grew up with the UK Ordnance Survey maps, and that’s kind of what I want from my maps.
I’ll amend.
The headphone jack user to lemmy user ratio is apparently nearly 1:1
Yeah, Lemmy is full of people stuck in their way and insisting older tech is better because they refuse to update
Sometimes older tech is better. I have both Bluetooth and wired headphones, and I prefer the wired ones. In fact, I’m wearing wired headphones right now, because my laptop has a jack. I can’t do that on my phone, because my phone doesn’t have a jack (and I refuse to use a dongle), so I use inferior Bluetooth headphones.
I would much rather have a slightly larger phone with worse water proofing if it means I can have a headphone jack. I have never had an issue with water ingress, or with a slightly thick phone, but I have had an issue w/ my Bluetooth headphones dying and not being able to plug in my wired headphones. In fact, my Bluetooth headphones have the option for a wire, so I just need to plug in a cable to keep listening if the batteries die (fairly often when traveling).
but I have had an issue w/ my Bluetooth headphones dying and not being able to plug in my wired headphones
and I refuse to use a dongle
Sounds like your problem was self-made. I use wired headphones flawlessly without the 3.5mm jack and reap all the benefits of both worlds, because the older tech isnt actually superior
I’m going to lose the dongle, that’s the problem. If it’s built-in to the device, there’s nothing to lose.
What’s the benefit of losing a popular port? I don’t need my phone to be waterproof, nor do I care if my phone is slightly thicker. So it just feels like a downgrade.
Anyone tried this Linuxphone?
I looked at it, but it looks really outdated phone. Would be interesting if we live in a 2015, but not today.
In what way does it look outdated?
Look at its specs. Processor and screen and so on.
Also put the OS into perspective. The specs might not do for Android normally but might be just fine functionally, for Linux.
People need to stop wanking over specs for a device that’ll be used 99% of the time to send text messages and watch YouTube videos
What do you need on a phone that takes 8gb+ ram?
To connect it to a dock station and have a full desktop experience. That is my use case
Well Jolla phones run Sailfish OS which doesn’t support this anyway so probably not the phone you should be buying (And the phone supporting Sailfish OS doesn’t suggest at all that it’ll be able to run a “regular” Linux distribution either)
That is the dream :') a phone running linux with desktop capabilities
I need my pocket sized spaceship computer for shitposting and occasionally checking my email
That’s sound in theory, but app developers don’t really test on low end phones, so the apps tend to get more and more bloated as time goes by. As soon as you need something with a map, you’re pretty much fucked. Looking at all the hiking maps that just get progressively worse without adding anything that I care for.
Looks ok but I dont like the subscription model for os updates. First 12 months is free, then you have to pay.
But I guess they have to make their money somehow.
I used a Jolla when it was new. It was pretty decent, and in fact had many innovations. Apple brought gestures to their OS several years after. It was one of the first implementations of a phone UI implement on Wayland, and one of the first serious Linux non-Android phones. Might still be.
Unfortunately, being a pioneer does not always help. Application developers didn’t get interested in it enough so it never really got any apps.
Bring back the headphone jack & we’ll be happy.
Next up, make the phone compatible with Linux OSs
No thanks, i’ve broken every single one. A dap with bluetooth receiver works better.
But the presence of a headphone jack doesn’t prevent you from using Bluetooth?
It doesn’t and for many people the jack dying isn’t an issue.
What do you do to break them?
In my forties and never broken a headphone jack, headphones, cable, or in fact anything like that. I tend to take care of my stuff and not treat it in such a way as I’m going to break it.
Put it in my jeans pocket and move about my day as usual. Cycling broke them in a year, reliably.
We can but hope. I have a dongle that plugs into my charging point to make it a headphone jack, but it’s not the same
I recently went through that dongle buying experience. Having to get the correct DAC and amplifier chipset so the sound won’t be too low is annoying. For the record I ended up going with one that has the CX31993 DAC and the MAX97220 amplifier, it doesn’t have a real name so I’ll just give a link: https://aliexpress.com/item/1005008755907868.html. It is a bit louder than my first impulsive buy, but I haven’t tested the microphone yet.
Thanks for the link!
Really wish Fairphone would come to the US. I’d spend the money on it, but they only half-ass sold the last gen phone here on the US.
I don’t even understand why. They support most 4G and every mid and low band 5G in America. Even if I could just import it, I’d be happy.
I can send you one probably, but you know… tariffs (and processing fees).
I appreciate it, but I just got a new phone because I needed a new one recently. I wish it could have been something like a Fairphone, but thems the breaks.
Yup. I was interested in one as well, but they don’t really support US customers, so I ended up w/ a Pixel w/ GrapheneOS flashed.
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Unfortunately Telecomms in Australia seem to have a pissing contest on who can screw consumers more, America or Aussie companies.
I’ve owned the 4, for a couple of years. Was really excited to get one.
Parts have been unavailable for a long time when I needed them. The battery is pretty dead after 2 years meanwhile my pixel which is about 5 years old still going strong. The os is the buggiest experience I’ve ever had, sluggish, going from portrait the landscape kills UI formatting if it switches to power save it’ll skip a video. Boot loops constantly.
Never again I’m afraid it’s neat I could fix things with it so quickly but they fail hard past that.
Example navigation buttons have just covered the voyager ui
Thanks for sharing your experience. I believe the F6 is likely expected by autumn and was considering this as my next. I often wondered about parts as time goes by, as I suspected the company wouldn’t want a huge inventory of spares and the costs involved. If I do get one, I’ll likely buy a spare screen at the least.
The UI stuff is disappointing, however maybe not a deal breaker as I’m trying to reduce my usage. Perhaps a buggy smartphone could be a decent dumbphone alternative.
Just switch ROM?
This would’ve been my new phone if it had a headphone jack.
Yup I’ll stick with Xperia
I was trying so hard to buy one but Sony did not make them available at all in my country. The only way to buy an Xperia or a Zenfone 10 is through shady importer websites and you get no warranty.
From an environmental standpoint it doesn’t make any sense to drop it. More batteries, more e waste
They sell earbuds, that’s all you need to know why it doesn’t have a jack anymore.
Really sad they dropped it
I’ve had this phone for over a year with Murena e/OS/! 90hz refresh rate is so nice
The lack of an FM radio and headphone jack make it unusable for me.
Are there phones available these days with both of these things?
Yes, a quick search on GSM Arena shows 189 phones with a radio and headphone jack. That’s just phones from the last year.
not really flashship phones. Well the Xiaomi ones might be flagship but I don’t really keep track with those phones
Interesting, I very rarely see headphone jacks and had noe clue that FM radio in phones was a thing still. Nice resource, bookmarking that for later!
Unfortunately, almost all of them are mediatek based, so while that makes rooting easier, there’s very little chance of getting a custom ROM running on them.
Yes
yes, even some that never mention the radio have one (n10 5g us model).
Great idea, but will never take down here in south America
People know that all these import parts and replacements are not exactly easy to pay for, even less to find. They need a cheap reliable phone that will at least handle day to day for years
I mean come on, the average cellphone user here is still using the equivalent of a Moto G2 or Samsung J2 and thats stretching it.
An S8 is still seen like luxury in here. And I’m not even going into iphones.
If they just didn’t drop the headphone jack.
How else would they push their mediocre reviewed Bluetooth headsets and ear buds?
Ah, that’s a dealbreaker for me
my phone has a headphone jack, my phone before that had a headphone jack. Wanna guess how often I used it? Zero because I have decent bluetooth headphones
Ok I use my wired headphones
I just have a dap that can receive bluetooth. More battery life, drives literally anything to very loud, 4.4mm out and can hold it’s own music library and play it without eating phones battery or memory.
my phone has a headphone jack, my phone before that had a headphone jack. Wanna guess how often I used it? Zero because I have decent bluetooth headphones
That’s just like your opinion man
Wanna know how many times I played a piano in the past 20 years?
Zero. Clearly they shouldn’t exist.
No, but maybe you should re-gift it to someone who does…
You’re not making sense.
Your position was that someone else is wrong to desire audio jacks, because you personally don’t need one after spaffing money on some Bluetooth earphones.
My point – which I thought was very obvious, but apparently you missed it – was that just because you don’t see the value of something doesn’t mean others don’t or that it shouldn’t exist.
I don’t have a piano, and I don’t know why you think I do.
My entire metaphor is that I don’t play or have a piano, but I recognise that it’s stupid for me to discourage others from having them solely because I personally don’t have or want one.
I’m a bit confused by your metaphor then (and thanks for the constructive insults, brings me back to the old reddit days…), since why take issue with something you dont own or use in the first place? Is the piano the headjack, or is it the bluetooth?
I didn’t insult you, I remarked that you didn’t appear to have understood my comment, and by the looks of it you still don’t.
Apologies if you’re upset by my comment. That was not my intent. I was just pointing out the absurdity of your judgemental comment.
I’m not the one taking issue with something I don’t own. That’s my entire point. You are discouraging someone from wanting something just because you personally don’t value it.
The piano is the headphone jack.
You don’t need a headphone jack, and feel the need to disparage others who do. “I don’t use a headphone jack, so you shouldn’t want a phone with one.”
Similarly, I don’t need a piano. However, I don’t go around telling people they shouldn’t want/play one, because I recognise that the things I want in my life are different to the things other people want in theirs.
It’s more like a new keyboard comes out and people all complain that it’s not a piano.
I use my backup headphones when my Bluetooth headset has run out of battery
Good for you.
I use mine. Bluetooth is great and all, but it’s still not the same quality as a hard-line. And they also run out of batteries.
Boo this man!
…are they booing me, or are they booing headphones?
You. They’re booing you.
Help me, Smithers!
😔
This is fine if you don’t care about having the best audio quality and lowest latency possible.
not just that. with a jack, you can use your phone as a perfect mic for your PC. its also better in terms of privacy as you don’t blast “IM HERE” signals that every other shop has a tracking device for logging them. I would guess majority of bluetooth audio devices don’t even support mac address randomization
I would guess majority of bluetooth audio devices don’t even support mac address randomization
Wouldn’t that be a nightmare for pairing? The device wakes and tries to connect to the last device it was paired to, only to find unknown vendors
mac randomization is a defined thing in the BLE standard (afaik bluetooth classic does not have it, but maybe that changed in BT 5.1?). It’s not truly random, it involves cryptography so that paired devices can recognize each other in the end
Ah interesting, thanks for context
I feel like latency only matters if you’re realtime gaming. In any other situation the video just syncs to the audio.
As for quality AptX-HD is decent for low bitrates even at 24-bit, and LDAC remains excellent for anything higher.
Unless you’re listening to high-res FLAC (in which case, god help your earphone impedance when listening to normal songs), I doubt the loss is audible
My decent Bluetooth headphones have the option to plug in a headphone cable to use them wired. I use it occasionally so I can reduce audio latency, which can be useful with gaming…and essential with rhythm games.
I used mine all the time because I hate using bluetooth even though I have expensive bluetooth headphones, I have now cancelled you out
My last phone had a headphone jack. Wanna guess how often I used it? All the time! And that was despite having decent Bluetooth headphones.
I loved wearing my cans when mowing the lawn because it cut down on the noise, and I also used them when laying in bed since they had much better audio. I would use my Bluetooth headphones the rest of the time because they were more convenient.
My new phone doesn’t have headphone jack, and I’m super bummed.
So now you still do the exact same things but with a little dongle, right?
I’m going to lose that dongle. You say further down that I can just leave them connected, but I use my headphones with more than my phone (laptop, desktop), and those other devices have a headphone jack. Leaving it plugged in to my phone sucks too, for obvious reasons.
I don’t care about water ingress. I’m happy to give up water resistance and have a slightly thicker phone if it means I get a headphone jack, bonus points if it’s easier to open the phone for repairs.
Yup. If anything, they should add a second USB-C connector. Much more versatile and you can still charge your phone if one of them dies.
These flaky, but simultaneously bulky headphone connectors need to die. They’re inferior in pretty much every way imaginable.
USB-C to headphone jack dongles suck. You lose them easily, you can’t charge your phone if they’re connected and if you disconnect your headphones the device still behaves as if they’re plugged in. It’s so much less convenient and on the other hand there’s just no downside to having a dedicated headphone jack, so I still don’t get why they’re no longer including them.
As well as all your points (which I 100% agree with), my other issue with these dongles is simply that they stick out way more. If I buy a pair of headphones with an angled connector, I can plug them in and wrap the wire a little bit and then when the phone’s in my pocket, the wire takes up basically no space and doesn’t get smushed about by my leg.
With a dongle, I need an extra couple inches of vertical space, and because the wire/connectors are sticking directly out the phone, they get bent all over the place. Absolutely crap design. Yes 90 degree USB-C to headphone jacks exist but they take up way more space than just a headphone jack.
You lose them easily
Just leave them connected to the headphones.
you can’t charge your phone if they’re connected
Dongles with an additional usb port exist.
if you disconnect your headphones the device still behaves as if they’re plugged in.
Again, leave the dongle connected to the headphones, not the phone.
It’s so much less convenient
It is less convenient, but I’d argue not by all that much. More importantly it’s not any less convenient for the vast majority who are already only using Bluetooth.
there’s just no downside to having a dedicated headphone jack
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It’s an additional, and to most people superfluous, point for water ingress. Water damage is the most common type of damage in phones.
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It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
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It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few. This is especially important to Fairphone in particular because they don’t use off-the-shelf components and promise to supply replacement parts pretty much indefinitely. I.e. Fairphone would have to design a custom module and then have that module in stock and manufactured specifically for them for the lifetime of each of their devices. That’s not a trivial expense.
It’s an additional […] point for water ingress.
the whole back panel is a big point of water ingress when that is not glued shut hard
It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
I never needed the additional camera modules, and there were phones with single camera module that made very nice images. the jack is also often at the top of the device where the battery doesn’t reach, but in my phone there’s also enough place for it between the bottom and the battery for a jack connector. in a fairphone
It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few.
exact same opinion about multiple camera modules. nobody really needs them.
I can’t have them connected to my headphones all the time because I connect headphones to other devices that all have a fucking headphone jack.
- It’s an additional, and to most people superfluous, point for water ingress. Water damage is the most common type of damage in phones.
I’ve had watertight phones with a headphone jack over a decade ago.
- It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
Yes. Anything you add to a phone is a tradeoff. No shit. These points are what is usually used to justify the lack of a jack. But maybe, just maybe, they don’t save as much money as they make with selling wireless headphones and this is just an excuse? Especially the big companies like Apple or Samsung that sell their own peripherals? And this whole thing is just an excuse to sell overpriced gadgets that need to be replaced every few years because of their batteries? Maybe, just maybe, it’d be valid if consumers still had a choice and could pick phones with or without a jack and would have to pay for the luxury of using decent headphones with a few milliamperehours?
- It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few. This is especially important to Fairphone in particular because they don’t use off-the-shelf components and promise to supply replacement parts pretty much indefinitely. I.e. Fairphone would have to design a custom module and then have that module in stock and manufactured specifically for them for the lifetime of each of their devices. That’s not a trivial expense.
Manufacturing a phone is not a trivial expense. Removing features is a business decision and a headphone jack costs money but doesn’t earn any whereas they can produce more cheaply without one. I get it. It’s just that doing so requires you to buy and use battery powered headphones that are much less sustainable than traditional magnets tied to a cable. How a company that lives off its promise to safe the world jumps on that wagon is a miracle to me. Companies that remove headphones don’t care about audio quality (which is why Sony still produces phones with audio jacks, I guess) or sustainability. Which is odd for a company like fp.
requires you to buy and use battery powered headphones
This is simply false though, we’d agreed that you are required to buy and use a dongle, and that this is an added inconvenience. But you are not required to switch to wireless headphones and your old cans haven’t suddenly become useless. People still have a choice between wired and wireless, wired has just become a little less convenient, that’s all. I completely agree with you that people shouldn’t go out buying new gadgets if their old stuff is still functional, but you can just continue using your old headphones if you get a new phone if you buy a dongle with it. Inconvenient yes, but not the end for wired headphones.
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Okay? You’re not the one asking for a headphone jack tho??? Pointless comment.
Fairphone don’t sell replacement mainboards, presumably to stop people building phones from parts but they look very serviceable in other respects.
I would totally be interested if they had solid Linux support, such as postmarketOS or mobian. Those systems continue to get updates long after most Android devices stop supplying updates, so it would fit really well with a repairable phone. It shouldn’t be the default, but it would be awesome if they helped the Linux phone community make it the best supported hardware for the various Linux phone projects.
According to the postmarketOS wiki, audio is completely broken, so you have to use Bluetooth. That kind of sucks.
I’ve been meaning to look into PinePhone myself.
No headphones jack.
Trash generating hypocrites.
HMD are doing everything better than fair phone now with their latest models. More repairable, more flexible, long term support and updates.
Cheaper too.
No headphones jack.
Most people use bluetooth devices nowadays. Few have wired headphones, which they can still use by using a €2 adapter that you just leave plugged to them all the time. Then there is a 0,1% that complains on the internet demanding that phone companies keep a extra hole on their devices for a specific purpose another hole can already do. Oh and HMD phones don’t have it either, at least for what i could find.
More repairable
They seem about the same (glass, back, speaker, battery, port), but on the ff5 you can replace the cameras as well.
more flexible
Tf does that mean? You can bend it?
long term support and updates.
Liar? Fairphones have like 8 years of security updates and major android version upgrades. HMD gives like 3 years on their latest devices… What are you talking about?
Cheaper too.
I’ll give you that, but it really ends there.
HMD phones are not a bad choice at all but if the affordability isn’t first in the list I don’t see how they would make a better purchase over a Fairphone.
Another hole can carry analogue audio? I think you’re referring to a USB port when you say “another hole can do the same job”, but obviously it can’t carry analogue audio. You need an external DAC to convert the digital audio it can output, to analogue. (The phone already has an internal DAC so this is dumb)
And then of course you run into the issue of being unable to use it while the phone is charging because you have 1 port for 2 different jobs
Not all of us like the idea of wireless earphones, there are still many who prefer to spend good money on nice IEMs or headphones that don’t have to be charged to work, rather than overly expensive, subpar wireless options that will inevitably turn into e-waste when the batteries can no longer hold a charge.
Not to mention the ubiquity of the 6.5mm/3.5mm jack, this is standard across every piece of music gear you can think of from synthesizers to electronic drum kits to guitars, pedals, and interfaces.
You certainly don’t walk into a recording studio and find USB C ports to plug into
idc about hmd, but usbc for audio is just shit. Ive tried various setups, I have a dac for phones, i have iems with usbc and yet the port is just not constructed for usage on the go where i preferably use in ears. So in total: aux got taken, instead we use the charging port and if we actually do that the ports gonna be dead in a year maximum if you havent aldready ripped apart your in ears because of these darn constant disconnects. I do have wiems that are more expensive than my iems and yet bluetooth audio transmission still sucks compared to cables and I long for the moment where i finally have a phone with aux again so my ears dont have to constantly bleed (wildly exaggerated obv). Last time i almost bought a Sony because of aux, but theyre just way too expensive for the software support they deliver. I just hope in a few years time theres a value phone built for me :).
I don’t know anything about HMD so I can’t add to that. However I’d like to correct you regarding the headphone jack. The people that like it so much are generally privacy enthusiasts. Leaving your Bluetooth on makes you easily trackable. Using USB-C headphones helps in that regard but expediates wear and tear on the port by a lot and often makes the phone unusable a lot quicker, because you obviously need it for charging. Audio jacks generally have very low wear and tear. Hope that helps you understand we’re not crazed evangilists hanging on to the past for the sake of it.
expediates wear and tear on the port by a lot
How much is a lot? And good thing the usb-c port is a $15 user replaceable part then. Also dongles with two connectors exist if you specifically want to charge and use headphones at the same time.
so everybody who wants to use 3.5mm headphones on phones should just replace their port every quarter? lmao
Every quarter? This is why I asked what was meant by ‘a lot’. If you’re going to claim that the extra wear caused would be this extreme I’d like for that to be at least somewhat substantiated.
I can only substantiate my claims with my own experience after buying a new phone. I believe my last two were jackless, and in both cases it got impossible to use the usbc port for listening to audio on the go in like a month or two (constant disconnects). Now this doesnt impact charging (resting position) but its absolutely impossible for me to use in ears on the go (usbc), so id go another step and say its just plain useless.
having only one battery that needs to be charged, one way to get the headphones disconnected (unplugging), and the greatly reduced battery drain by not needing Bluetooth on should be good enough reasons for 3.5mm jacks to stay.
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long term support and updates.
Three years of security upgrades is very bad, in my opinion. Google offers seven years, and Fairphone offers eight.
Are HMDs really more repairable? Most recent phone they had that tried to be repairable was Skyline and even there it was pretty limited. And btw that one didn’t have a jack either.
