Just looking at the people around me (mostly colleagues, I’m not friends with this kind of people) it’s no surprise, when just about anything triggers them to vote AfD. Some actual examples:
“We have a vegetarian day at the cafeteria now. Stupid Greens forcing me to not eat meat one day a week. I’m going to vote AfD next election.”
“They built a new bicycle lane on my way to work. Now I’m forced to stick to the speed limit because of all the bicyclists on MY road blocking me. It’s a straight street, I should be able to go 80 even though it’s inner city. I’ve always been going 80 there! Stupid Greens, I’m going to vote AfD next election.”
“Supplier X stopped issuing their bikini model calendar. Everything is forbidden nowadays! Noone ever cared for bikini model calenders, but the Greens want to forbid every little piece of fun. Stupid woke culture. I’m going to vote AfD.”
And let’s not forget that one boss who told me that my life-threatening nut allergy was woke nonsense, because back in his day “everybody just ate what’s on the table and noone died, but nowadays everybody has to feel special by making up things they won’t eat.”
They just want to go back to 1950s culture, when gay people, trans people, allergies, ADHD, autism, veganism, climate change and anything other than straight white dudes and straight white housewives “didn’t exist”, because how dare the world be more complex than a Rosamunde Pilcher movie.
I’m genuinely sorry your boss said that to you, but it sounds so fucking ridiculous I laughed. Jesus. Imagine being so stupid that someone might die.
Also highlights we don’t live in a meritocracy if this clown is in charge of others.
Well, to bring some darker thoughts to the topic: Most fascist movements are also very, very inclined on their interpretation of darwinism, so… “weak” people dying off may for them be more a feature than a bug
You know what the worst thing is? He wasn’t the only one by far. Later at a different company another Teamleader told me I have to go out to eat with everybody. When I said the restaurant isn’t save for me (lots of nuts on the menu), he just said I HAVE to come and that’s what the Epipen is there for. I complained to HR and the HR lady asked why I don’t just do a therapy against allergies. Told me about some esoteric bullshit that’s supposed to cure all allergies and advised me to do that so I can better fit in with the company culture.
This has to be the most toxic employer in Germany. I had some shit jobs, especially when I was younger, but this is insane.
I want to come throw hands on all these people for you!
Bavaria?
NRW. Rheinland, um genau zu sein. Hier gibt es auch seeehr viele “Wir haben das schon immer so gemacht”-Leute.
Rheinische Frohnatur halt 😉
“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” – Franklin Leonard
You guys gotta be more like America on the bike lanes one.
Just have crippling, insane traffic, where it takes you three hours to move five (5) city blocks (this has actually happened to me).
Suddenly, a new bike lane gets you across the city in 26 minutes.
It made the bike lanes very popular, haha.
As an American, I don’t think people will support bike lanes even then
They want to return to 1950s, but they will return to 1930s. And not only in Germany. Stupid people have no clue what dictators always do.
Specifically, 1939.
The German mindset to capitulate in the face of challenges that cant be solved by doing how things where allways done (since kohl).
By god, nobody wants things like wealth and inheritance taxes to be done like way back when (when they existed).
Ok, unfair the majority of Germans wants them, but this great democracy continuously produces Governments for and by the 1% irrespective of your vote.
Is the proper response: Well shit.
They don’t even need to win elections, everyone was already discussing immigration because of propaganda & news (Messerattacke). They have set the agenda, this now is just more evidence of their success.
Sad.
This is why I keep telling people we are fucked by focusing in increasing military power in europe even if it appears and is obviously needed. We are going to put all the power at the hands of insane lunatics ready to wage war and put people in ovens.
It’s happening in all countries in Europe. I think in mine we’ll have elections next month or something like that and the extreme right is at 2nd or 3rd position ready to take first or will join hands with another to win. It was so close already last time. No matter how many crimes all their members do and show up in the news every week.
It’s what the people want. Most people everywhere are ok and want homicidal narcissist and sociopathic people in charge of them.
These polls don’t matter much. Next major election in Germany is in 2029.I’d argue these assholes didn’t win the battle just yet. Anti lobby work, Investments in military power, education and quality of life for people are just some of the things to convince more people. Four years is plenty.
I have no trust in the current coalition to make that happen…
If the government doesn’t fall like it does here regularly 😮💨
Best of luck to you and your country staying sane-ish a little longer.
Did you not realize that they performed incredibly well in the elections? Social media is how they will overthrow the last remaining democracies. France, UK and Canada are next. All the young folks are increasingly more conservative and within 2-6 years, it’s going to be game over.
We really should stop using the term “conservative” for what the self proclaimed “conservative” parties are doing. Because they don’t conserve anything. They do the exact opposite. They exploit and destroy.
I don’t disagree, but when one part of society uses word A and the other part uses word B that would only further increase polarization, which already is a serious problem. I think it’d be better it we continue using the name they use for themselves, but point out what a weird name it is for them. So we could tell them for example that we find it strange they consider themselves “conservative” parties because they don’t conserve anything. They do the exact opposite. They exploit and destroy.
The problem is that more simple minded people who are actually conservative, as they want to conserve society as it is, will easily fall for the propaganda and vote for a party that is out to destroy what they want to conserve.
The self proclaimed standing of a party is part of its propaganda. Unfortunately the media are complicit with the parties on perpetuating their propaganda, by calling parties by their chosen adjectives, rather than by what would be more fitting. Conservatives should rather be called “Destructives”, and in many countries, “Social Democrats” are rather Neoliberals, for they have long sold out social democracy to the highest bidder and now follow an extremist free market ideology, their only remaining difference to the “Conservatives” being not wanting to return to societal norms from 60 years ago.
Populist intentionally choose words that attract potential voters, they will continue to do that. But calling them out for not being real conservatives because they act different is definitely helpful.
The problem is that more simple minded people who are actually conservative, as they want to conserve society as it is, will easily fall for the propaganda and vote for a party that is out to destroy what they want to conserve.
The real problem is that “conserve society as it is” was always a lie, unless the “as it is” you’re talking about happened to be monarchy. Conservatism, as an ideology, was founded in support of monarchism. A society run by an aristocratic elite has always been the thing they’re trying to conserve.
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The correct term is reactionary.
Just call it what it is. It’s fascist. It’s the fascist party. All of these - afd, maga, same unimaginative shit.
Inventing new terms is what these fuckers want. Remind them they’re not new and been wrong before.
It’s not a new term, it has been around for a few centuries now. People who want to revert change, go back to the perceived good old times. Fascist is overused these days, and I’d argue reactionary hits a nice descriptive middle ground between conservative (which they are not, any more) and fascist (which many of them aren’t yet). Hit them where they are, not where they move to
I do agree with and appreciate the nuance, it’s clear from your careful wording you understand conservatism by definition doesn’t have a cause to stand for, hence reactionary. It’s apt in a good faith discussion.
My problem is supplying ammunition for bad faith discussion. Like what “libertarians” are to conservatives. They’ll claim they’re not conservatives, they’re just libertarians. All the while supporting the same goals with a different name.
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Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, maybe people just don’t like to hear it. You’re not wrong.
To add, these people generally have more kids, and raise them to be conservative. It’s depressing. It might take some severe hardship on people to shift left again? Not sure what that is, hopefully not another world War.
The shift left is not happening until theres a major (most likely violent) crisis. As it is, America will become Russia 2.0 and this will probably be the staus quo for a while.
No, I didn’t. I’ve been drowning in depression keeping up with what is happening in the US.
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Plus two percent, a difference of one percent to second place and an error margin of two point five percent. Congrats.
Besides that, I really start to hate these reports. Weekly updates on the Sonntagsfrage are utterly lacking substance, fearmongering (to left leaning people) and reassurance (to AfD voters). Everything we do not need.
Should the left not be worried?
About a election in 4 years? Not really. At least not yet. This isn‘t news worthy in my opinion because it doesn‘t tell you anything about what the country will look like in 4 years.
If the current government is even willing and able to serve their term to its end (the previous one didn’t), and actually improve the situation enough so people stop running after some rat catchers with a simple lie as the supposed solution.
But the Left and Greens are in opposition — this is a chance. Hopefully they are able to mobilise as well in the coming years.
Socially, the Greens stand exactly where the “Social Democrats” stand. They co-authored the unprecedented social cutbacks of the Schröder era, which brought Germany where it is today. They are a party of privileged academics who are fine with easing their ecological conscience on the backs of people with lower income. And the Left still has Putin bootlicker vibes (they call it “peace”), even though the worst Putin bootlickers left them to form their own party.
As I said: opposition is always a chance to rethink your position and get a sharper profile. The Left is moving in a good direction after the breakup. Parties are huge constructs that need sone time to change. My hope is that the Greens will be pulled to the left as well.
The Greens only just sold out their core audience of environmentalists to the coal lobby during their term in government. On state level, during the energy crisis, one of their big wigs (namely the prime minister of Baden-Württemberg) recommended people too poor to afford energy to just go and buy a heat pump, or to use a washcloth instead of taking a shower. If a party tolerates people with such a “let them eat cake” attitude in an influential position, it won’t go back to a “sharper profile” in the social area any time soon.
The Left keeps persistently and adamantly confusing servile submission to force with peace. Even after the breakup.
The Greens will be pulled to the left in the same way they have been “pulled to the left” in the previous few decades. They’ll present some rainbow coloured pseudo leftist folklore before the next election only to keep selling out the lower classes if they happen to score a win.
Where did I say that? How the fuck do you come up with that being the conclusion of my comment?
I really start to hate these reports. Weekly updates on the Sonntagsfrage are utterly lacking substance, fearmongering (to left leaning people) and reassurance (to AfD voters). Everything we do not need.
There?
So in your stupid brain “Not A” is automatically and without any alternatives to equivocate with “the utterly illogical opposite to A”?
How on earth is “push the breaks on fearmongering” equal to “Na, don’t worry”???
- Fear mongering is making people worried.
- You are against this report for doing this to leftists, hence you are against making leftist people worried.
?
No for fucks sake. Fearmongering is the irrational exaggeration of a worrisome situation to a degree that incites fear (hence the term fearmongering) and panic.
So what irrational fears are promoted about the AdF getting into power and achieving greater public support?
Or is it irrational to think the most popular party in Germany could ever win?
Very confusing, I’m so stupid after all.
You can be against news fearmongering a certain group and also believe the fear this group has is valid. In this case, the leftist could for example be already worried by the actual situation and not because of the fearmongering.
Bitte achte auf deine Ausdrucksweise, solche Gossensprache wollen wir hier nicht.
Calm down you could have just said “yes the left should be worried but no need to panic” and all would be well.
I’m not calming down. This dumb shit happens just far too often lately. I have no idea, why people insinuate things others never said and burn that strawman down, but I’m getting too tired and more and more pissed off by it, to the point where I wonder if it’s even worth it or I should rather stop discussing.
Shit’s annoying AF.
You should stop discussing because what you call a straw man is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of your comment. If you don’t want it to be open to interpretation, you should be more clear, rather than get mad at people taking one of the reasonable interpretations. An additional sentence at the end of that comment like “That said, the left should be worried.” would likely have been enough.
About as reasonable an interpretation as asking you if you mean humans shouldn’t ever feel emotions by saying “Calm down”.
Also, the heads of most of the polling institutes are openly right leaning.
RTL and their head is more than just “right leaning” Remember the call? “We have to do everything in our power to destroy the greens and spd. Help the FDP and our other ally” Springer is such a huge problem. No one would be remorsed if the entire springer empire got sucked up by a black hole
Germans literally have so many choices of political parties that they can actually elect, why do they have to go for the worst one AfD?
I want to give oen example of how people on the fence can up on the wrong side, radicalized if you will. For the record I’m as far left as I can get. I support a lof of humanitarian causes and respect the decisions of others, particularly in sexuality or individual personal definitions. Be what you want, do what you want, be good, be fair. It’s easier than being rotten.
I’m only a resident of Germany, so every two years I need to renew my residency card, the Awshfksoyngelelemdn, or whatever that alphabet soup is called. I began the process 3 months before I was set to expire (Nov 2024). Surely, that would be enough time to get shit done at a rathaus that refuses to do any of this online. Oof, so wrong. JULY was the first appointment they would give me. My residency expired in April. No problem, they said. I can still live here since I made the appointment, just don’t leave Germany. I must leave Germany as that’s my job and why they moved me here from the US years back.
I begged to understand why the wait times are so long and the answer I got, from the rathaus, was that refugees from Syria and Palestine have been given the opportunity to migrate to my town and their processing is a priority. The only way I can get around that, to get an earlier appointment, would be to stand in the line when they open at 7:30am-12:00pm, M-F. I went there at 7am and the line wrapped around the block. I asked the person in the front of the line what time they got there. 4am.
I came back another day, at 4am, and got shit done, but that’s a huge brick in the wall for people already pissed they have to share with the lesser fortunate. I sucked it up. I get what they’re doing. But when Germans see just how poorly this is all being managed, they start listening to the assholes that promise to fix that… at all costs.
It’s a fkn drag. I had much higher hopes for Germany when I moved here, but now I’m left wondering what my next move is going to be. I refuse to be ruled by racist idiots. It’s a big reason behind why I happily left the US. Only hope will be that everyone sees the US administration tripping over their own dicks and come to their senses, but I’ve really lost faith after the 2024 election cycle.
It’s really tiring how all-or-nothing political parties like to be. Your choices are: · Help everyone, thus straining our resources thin and barely helping anyone · Fucking kill anyone who so much looks at us
I personally think “help yourself first so you can help others better”. How are you expected to take care of humanitarian issues when your own country is unraveled? You’re having your own humanitarian issue!
its a few factors in play, one is the normalization of far-right policies by the other big parties (SPD, Greens, Union) and their inability to fix the damage caused by the financial crisis of 2008, the rise of anti-migrant beliefs in the german working class, and a few others
i think this video explains well the rise of the AfD in germany, at this point its only a matter of time until one or more parties decide to make a coalition with the AfD
nd their inability to fix the damage caused by the financial crisis of 2008
That’s absolutely not it. Germany went through the crisis of 2008 like a breeze. In 2015 during the refugee crisis, Merkel decided to open our borders to all of the refugees. Before that, the AfD had below 10% of the voters on their side. But a huge chunk of the population did not agree to Merkel’s refugee policies. That’s when the AfD took off. And now we can’t get rif of them 😒
So AfD took off because Germans are largely racist, great look
If you ask the AfD-Fanboys, most are probably going to say that they are not racist, that there are just too many refugees in the country and the other parties aren’t doing anything about it. The AfD, meanwhile, is blaming all og the problems on the “left parties” and illegal immigrants. But yes, in my opinion, if you vote for the AfD, you are racist to a degree at least.
It’s mostly East Germany. Communism’s fuckups in that area are still causing suffering today. I suppose West can be blamed for failing to integrate the east properly.
Put looting the east via Treuhand on that list…
Treuhand was a disgrace
Unfortunately, that’s not the only reason. We have 16 Bundesländer (states). 5 of them are in the East. But they have hardly more inhabitants than Bavaria. So a lot of us in the “Real Germany” (the western states) are voting those AHs too.
AfD is using fascist manipulation using propaganda (always putting immigrants and immigrant attacks in the spotlight) to gain power and discriminate immigrants even more, causing more retaliation which in turn makes people give the AfD even more power.
In a tolerant society we should not be tolerant of such intolerance.
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I’m an American. I really hope the German masses can learn this lesson before it"s too late.
But you guys need to counter the hateful messaging against immigrants with an equally effective message against the people with power/money, otherwise, fascism is likely to win in the long run against neoliberalism, as we just saw in America after our long-term experiment with neoliberalism, which really kicked off in the 1980s with Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.
In the 1990s, the American Democrats felt so defeated after having lost big time to Reagan and Bush Sr., so Bill Clinton decided the Democrats cannot “unilatterally disarm” and must start taking corporate money. This acceptance of corporate money led to their idiology becoming the same as Reagan’s idiology, and then the Republican party being bith opportunists and contrarians, took advantage of that situation by shifting further and further right (see: the ratchet effect), until they openly became fascists.
I’m not too familiar with German politics, but if anything I said applies, then heed my warning.
But you guys need to counter the hateful messaging against immigrants with an equally effective message against the people with power/money, otherwise, fascism is likely to win in the long run against neoliberalism […]
This is exactly it. However, I am not too optimistic about centrist politicians/media/society coming to that conclusion. We are complacent and scared and would rather keep our heads in the sand and blame minorities instead of addressing the underlying structural issues.
Many of those aren’t real votes but “protest” support. Very dumb imo. They’re hoping its a wakeup to the other parties but it really just emboldens the afd.
Please look at the US and what’s happening here right now.
A significant portion of Trump’s voters in 2016 were protest anti-establishment voters and they’ve been converted into full on Fascist voters in the 8 years since then.
Nah I don’t buy it. Nazis voting for nazis know what they are doing. AfDs plan is clear, like project 2025 was and their voters like what they see and should be treated and handled accordingly.
Okay well in German and I know some of these idiots. It’s true. Of course some are literally Nazis. You see the same thing in the US as well. Don’t take my reply as defending these people.
Are they dumber than the parties that didn’t get the message?
Can confirm they’re generally quite dumb.
In phone polls 4 years before the next election…
Dont get me wrong, this sucks, but its not what the germans actually voted for.
But they already performed very well in the last election.
Still shows you something you can’t see by asking your neighbours, colleagues and family. But I agree it doesn’t matter in a real way.
It’s similar in the UK currently. The UK’s equivalent of AfD is Reform UK who are apparently the leading party in the polls (source):
Reform UK in front on 25%, Labour on 23% and the Conservatives on 20%, with the Lib Dems on 16% and Greens on 10%
The next UK election must be held in about four years. The only elections this year will be by-elections (notorious for elevating micro-parties due to protest votes) and local government elections (where Reform has done poorly, since they don’t really have more than a handful of candidates who aren’t local cranks and Nazis). Where I live, the local-government protest votes has swung seats from Labour to the Greens, and to a lesser extent, the LibDems; the right hasn’t had much success.
It should also be noted that the UK press is very rightwing and is constantly promoting Fromage.
True, it’s a long time until the next UK general election. Maybe Reform’s vote will suffer before then. Alternatively the local elections and by-elections could be a boost for them, I dunno.
Anyway, maybe we should have proportional representation in the UK. Even if Reform had 25% of the vote and therefore 25% of the seats in parliament, that would mean that 75% of parliamentarians wouldn’t be Reform members.
Our current system allows a party with minority support (potentially Reform in the future) to win a majority of parliamentary seats. In 2019, the Conservatives won 44% of the vote, which gave them 56% of seats. Last year, Labour won 34% of the vote, which gave them 63% of seats.
Many reform voters are old men. Many will die between here and 4 years with the state of the NHS
Someone explain, are these the Nazis?
Anything from national conservatives to common reactionaries, Völkische and neo-nazis and neo-fascists.
It is the party all the fascists vote on.
Should tell you enough.
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: yeeeeeeeeeeeessss.
they are the neo-Nazis
Fuck
Ah 💩, here we go again
Why hasn’t the German government shut them down? I thought they had anti-fascist laws on their books.
There are multiple factors at play.
- The government is incompetent and the Nazis are playing them like a fiddle by setting the public agenda aided by incompetent and complicit media. (That the Nazis’ economic agenda, more money for the rich, isn’t all that differnet from that of the established parties helps with this, because this renders them unable of countering the Nazis’ lies about foreigners being to blame for the economic hardships of the masses without harming themselves)
- The government consists of greedy, power hungry bastards who think they can use the Nazis to their advantage. (Some lie to themselves that they can steal votes from them by parroting their rhetoric, some use the spectre of cooperating with the Nazis to pressure other parties into cooperation with them instead)
- The government consists of opportunistic cowards who are afraid of angering the Nazi voters and/or losing the court case for a ban of the Nazi party.
Both the US and Germany want to return to their fascist roots it seems
Decades of capitalist decay and anti-communist propaganda will do that.
The see the US and realize it’s possible to do it all over again.
Don’t forget about Russia. It is already there and leading in its effort to turn some countries into the same political system, making thereby these countries their puppets aka satellites.
Mass immigration into a housing shortage in order to push down wages, artificially invert the Phillips curve, and prop up housing prices will as well. I assume rising support for the afd is mostly the young.
https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/housing-index
https://recruitonomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/DE3-Net-migration-1024x565.png
This is such a U.S. way of reporting things.
74% of people don’t want to be part of AfD.
I disagree. The nazis leading the polls is very disturbing.
One out every four people you meet being a literal nazi is tough tho
US: what about one out of every two?
More like 1 in 3, many people didn’t or couldn’t vote
sadly, it’s basically expected that about 15-30% of the population are far-right xenophobes. the question is how well they can be mobilized.
It’s not. 74% are also not working on convincing disgruntled voters that AfD is just a shitsandwich and not an alternative that would improve anything. 26% for a single party that didn’t exist for long is huge and just shows how sick Germans are of the usual cdu/csu/spd/green/fdp bullshit.
The infuriating thing is that AfD voters would probably be better off with dieLinke.
Ive really been trying but every time theres a worse quagmire of information to wade through. “Like literal Trump fans. Jews own everything. Democracy is cool and all but really… sometimes we need other measures.” Theres just no way to talk back. Or even interact when in comes to politics.
I mean, why vote CDU if they are doing the same shit as AFD but are not as good at it?
We don’t know how good AFD would be at doing, what they claim. But none of the parties who have been in power over the last 20-30 years have done anything significant to improve the average workers economic status (e.g. make housing affordable, guarantee a reasonable pension, lessen the fear of unemployment, etc.). AFD claims, “if we get rid of the immigrants, everything will be better again” and people are believing it.
I’ve seen some negative reporting on afd Landesregierung, where we can see them act in power. Unfortunately I can’t point to any right now.
I did Nazi that coming.
