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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/42834907
“The reason we’re here is because the government of the United States wants you to leave the United States,” Judge Ubaid ul-Haq, presiding from a courtroom on Varick Street, told a group of about a dozen children on a recent morning on Webex.
The parties included a 7-year-old boy, wearing a shirt emblazoned with a pizza cartoon, who spun a toy windmill while the judge spoke. There was an 8-year-old girl and her 4-year-old sister, in a tie-dye shirt, who squeezed a pink plushy toy and stuffed it into her sleeve. None of the children were accompanied by parents or attorneys, only shelter workers who helped them log on to the hearing.
Immigrant advocates and lawyers say an increasing number of migrant children are making immigration court appearances without the assistance of attorneys, which they say will lead to more children getting deported.
“That child will be ordered deported from this country — that could all happen without that child ever speaking with an attorney and given the opportunity to obtain representation,” Shah said. “The cruelty is really apparent to all of us out here in the field.”
holy shit
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This isn’t oniony. It’s just sad.
The dystopia isn’t even boring anymore.
Actual orphan crushing machine.
Judge: I will help you since you have no lawyer.
4 year old girl: No habla Engles
following translated:
Judge: Where were you born?
girl: I don’t remember. I was too young.
Judge: If you show me a US birth certificate or SS ID card, I can help you not be deported.
girl: uhhh… what? what is words?
If the parents are being deported anyway, why don’t they let their children go with them?
If a 4 year old (with her 8 yo sister next to her) is unable to realise and say that they had some papers related to their birth, which were separated from them (probably confiscated by the ICE and disposed off) I’d say, it’s better for them to be deported.
Hopefully to a country with lesser brain-rot/poison in the water. Really, someone (country) just come and accept the children already. They need a better place than that.Even better. Once they are accepted in a more reasonable country, they might have a better chance at reuniting with their parents.
I’d say, this is a good time for action for governments that are looking for more next-generation population.If the parents are being deported anyway, why don’t they let their children go with them?
Key part missing from article is what happened to their parents. Presumably, if prosecution is honest, the kids were in fact not born here, and so are not citizens by birthright. Cruelty and unfairness as a point, does not make facts relevant. Were parents abducted without opportunity to take their children? If no due process, or even DOJ intervention in cases, then its not the jack booted thug ordered to send a parent to a death camp, that will pause the order to go pick up the kids from school, not that the parents would want kids in the death camp.
Story is horrible. Maybe the answer to what happened to parents would make it seem less horrible on US fascism angle. Maybe the fascism is so intense that no one is told what happened to the parents.
At this point, I don’t think we need to care about where those people were born.
The government has decided to harass the people and if another government can come and say, “We will provide you ‘work that pays’ and a ‘space to live’.”, a lot of those people would be willing to go through the temporary strain of going to another country and adjusting.
And if the US govt. is willing to say ‘NO’ to the offer and torture the people, well, Putin might be shitting too much, but is still a politician and I don’t see him letting go of the opportunity to band with UK (and the rest of the world), to go against the US this time.
One holocaust is enough for history. At least wait for the civilisation to (inevitably) forget the previous one, before creating another.
Story is horrible. Maybe the answer to what happened to parents would make it seem less horrible on US fascism angle. Maybe the fascism is so intense that no one is told what happened to the parents.
For now, I am really just going to assume that those were previously caught by ICE, due to the relevance to previous news.
Because, normally (stuff like death) you would have some legalese to get another guardian for the kid, which would then be available for the court proceedings and not have this happening.
The current resolutions as I see (from just the article though), seem to be more like - the children were staying with people, not very committed to keeping them and were initially hoping this to be a temporary measure until the parents “came back” (which never happened).
And now the children are having different sponsors (that read weird). What happens when the govt. goes around picking ppl out of those sponsors?
If the parents are being deported anyway, why don’t they let their children go with them?
It’s helpful when someone who is going to say something dumb says, “I didn’t read the article and will now assume what it said,” in their opening sentence. Thank you internet dumb person, thank you.
There are no guardians, that is the point. The adults that were helping were lawyer groups to help discover if these children were, oh, idk, born here and thus citizens of the country under the US Constitution. Trump de-funded that group. So now a four year old is appointed as their own lawyer. Government Efficiency at its finest!
Imagine (please don’t hurt your brain, it’s okay if you can’t imagine, you are doing your best) you are four, the police pick them up. They ask, “Please share with us your documents to prove your citizenship. No adult help allowed.” You’d be in Mexico too, probably smarter than you are now so hey maybe a positive outcome for you.
God damn, what an unempathetic illiterate asshole.
READ you stupid fuck. REAAAD.
Mate the 4 year old could just hire a lawyer like everyone else does. Why does the government need to help her? She was already born, now she should pull herself up by the bootstraps instead of asking for handouts.
You’re right, I didn’t think of that. Damn toddlers soaking up social services. I was wrong before, I apologize.
SS ID card
This invokes some unpleasant aSSociations.
I’m just going to point out that Trump has declared that the official language of the United States is English, so I’m sure he’s going to put in another executive order saying there shouldn’t be any translators made available.
they did this in his first term. this is part of why he was elected. racists vote.
Jesus Christ, we’re fucking monsters.
Judge Ubaid ul-Haq should be ashamed for even presiding over that farce.
They can preside over it, but they should just have dismissed the case with prejudice for the government not providing a lawyer.
Unfortunately the law does not obligate the govt to provide a lawyer.
Edit: In immigration court. This is not a criminal court.
Edit edit: The number of people unable to comprehend the difference is giving me insight into just how bad the education system is in the states.
Edit edit edit: Apparently me explaining the facts of the matter makes me a bad guy 🤦
You are correct, and ultimately the issue is that the laws shouldn’t be different for immigration courts or immigration agents, because wrongful detention or deportation can be worse than wrongful imprisonment.
No argument there, this is a farce of a kangaroo court
This is not a criminal court. From the article:
Unlike in criminal court, people — including adults and children — in immigration court aren’t guaranteed pro bono attorneys if their incomes fall below a certain threshold.
That doesn’t matter
The constitution doesn’t make convenience exceptions.
That doesn’t matter
Apparently it does?
It doesn’t as it is a major human rights violation
In the US there are certain human rights you can’t just wave way. They are alienable by definition. It is only a matter of time before these “trials” get challenged
The constitution specifically states criminal trials, which this is not. 5 seconds of googling would tell you as much, instead of making baseless claims here.
They didnt even need to googlr it, their own link specifies “criminal” defendants
It’s always hilarious when idiots speak with confidence. Makes my day
Haha your bio is spot on
“Yet the immigration system does not provided [sic] court-appointed counsel to immigrants facing deportation who are unable to afford a lawyer.”
https://immigrantjustice.org/issues/access-counsel
Everyone’s right. It’s horrible, but it’s the way it has been. It’s just getting and will continue to get worse.
checks upvotes
Looks like lemmy is just as poorly informed as the rest of the internet
Funny you should say that…
I would read the bill of rights. It is very important to know as a US citizen.
This is about IMMIGRATION court. They are not US citizens, and the constitution specifically states the right to an attorney is only for CRIMINAL court, which this is not.
My own reading of that amendment is that it puts requirements on the US government, period. It does not limit things to US citizens.
Of course, I know that’s not the way the courts interpret the amendment. 😔
It’s not about citizens or not. It’s limited to criminal cases. Immigration cases are a different thing.
Why did you mention them not being US citizens then? 🤔
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
I emphasized the key word there. There is no guarantee in civil or other courts (which sucks - try finding a divorce lawyer once your ex saps the bank account lol).
It is from the old FBI/NSA Playbook. Put them in “court” but then make sure they have no representation as that would get in the way of the ruling.
Jesus Christ, this is awful
This has been going on for many years.
That makes it so much worse.
If that’s true, let’s be glad it’s getting attention now.
It was getting attention in 2018 too. John Oliver even did an episode about it. People just don’t care as long as it isn’t them.
I keep caring harder and harder but that just makes me more anxious.
Also, am Canadian so it’s not like I can do anything about it.
I feel like trump poured gas all over the dumpster fire
Yes, but more specifically, he cancelled the fire department too.
Right in the article it mentions smaller percentages of in represented kids before now, but Trump cancelled the 200 million in funding to cover legal costs.
It’s still awful, jesus
While allowing any unrepresented kids to be deported is bad, it’s now twice as bad as before.
Kraft said that before the contract was terminated, she saw 30% to 40% of children in a given docket without lawyers. Now, she said, the number has increased to 50% to 60%.
You know what’s worse?
The amount of comments above you that are nothing but jokes and misinformation
It that really worse though?
no but it still is pretty terrible
Ballsy move kids, but will be a big blow to the lawyering industry if they win.
and we become more reddit every fucking day…
Why are we not burning the white house down or dismantling any ICE facilities? 😬
burning the white house down
Hey. That’s our thing.
Found the Brit!
Could be Canadian, eh?
Technically it was the British who burned the White House, but it was done in retaliation for an attack on British Canada.
I feel like that’s pedantic in a similar way to saying technically it wasn’t Americans who declared independence
Wait I think you just accidentally agreed with me. If the British declared independence from Britain in order to become Americans, then it was British troops who attacked D.C. those troops were just stationed in Canada when the attack took place.
Too busy with protesting Tesla. 🙄
Because if you do you will probably be killed or sent to El Salvador. Unless most people are doing it, nobody wants to take that risk.
RebMasel did a YT podcast on just this topic. It’s as horrific as it sounds.
Maybe if these KIDS didn’t WANT to be in Court they SHOULDNT have Committed CRIMES!
-Republicans who Voted for the 34 FELONIES Candidate!
Why are they spending time in a courtroom when they could be in the mines?
Oh just fuck off with that DEI shit. I am so sick of being put down because I’m a white man in America. Just one more job i wouldn’t do being taken away from me by illegals.
I volunteered at a soup kitchen once and the place was filled with able body white libs who are too lazy to work. Send them to the mines first.
I mean, I assume that’s who was there taking the handouts. I couldn’t actually show up that day. But I did volunteer and least.
Point is, there are plenty of Americans that should be forced to work in the mines first.
*just as an aside, I’m trying my hand at being maga. Wanted to practice some first, not sure this comment is angry or stupid enough. Any pointers appreciated.
It’s good but you forgot to capitalise the buzzwords: “If any LIBERALS really want HANDOUTS, maybe they can try their hands out in the MINES!” Then throw in a laughing emoji after saying something totally dangerous: “Honestly if you have democrat parents you should have to pay more for school 😂”
Yeah, this is the part where the Nazis were rounding up the gypsies. That’s where we are right now.
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Scumbags fleeing drug cartel violence who risk their lives to travel hundreds of miles to the US to grow our food, clean our toilets, build our houses, and pay taxes. The scumbags send their kids to our schools to learn our language and values and so they may grow up to contribute to our labor force in relative freedom and safety. These scumbags do this all while facing discrimination and exploitation. Absolute scumbags.
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I can’t tell if this is a joke
