- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Now I understand why at each windows 11 update, they introduce more bugs than ever
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Horseshit.
The current state of code generated by AI is sketchy at best. I often get plain wrong answers because the model tries to derive. It comes up with calls to functions and properties that just do not exist.
“You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.
Apart from that, apps that are glued together from AI generated code are not maintainable at all. What if there is a bug somewhere and you so not comprehend what is actually happening? Ask AI to fix it? Yeah good luck with that.
I do use AI for simple questions, and it works fairly well for that, but this claim by MS is just marketing bullshit.
This ^
“20%-30% of code inside the company’s repositories”
Now, if they had said “20%-30% of code written in the past 6 months…” I might buy that.
The repositories are going to have all the current codebase, likely going back years now. AI generated code is barely viable at this point and really only pretty recently.
No way 1/3rd of all current codebase is AI.
They mean new code, as per the article. And they mean code gen and IntelliSence
“Please move all comments from in-line to the line above, and add a separator line”
Even 20% of new code would be a stretch unless they count every first iteration of code written by AI that needs to be replaced by a human later because it was plain wrong.
Maybe they’re counting the six iterations of code it gives me as I tell it what’s wrong with each one.
20% of code = 20 lines of production code.
I didn’t RTA, but if they mean ALL code at MS, that just can’t be true. They have legacy stuff going back decades, beyond just their windows platform. There’s no way 30% of all their code is replaced or newly created by AI.
They say that because they are selling it.
And yeah, my experience is the same. The most frustrating is when writing in a typed python, and it gives answers that are clearly incorrect, making up attributes that don’t even exist etc.
My brother said his superior asked him to use more AI auto complete so that they can brag to investors that X percent of the company’s code is written by AI. This told me everything about the current state of this bullshit.
“You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers
The exact same wrong answer. Co-Pilot is especially bad for that. I’m practically giving up using it outside of vs code because the actual copilot AI is dog shit stupid m
It would explain the constant barrage of system breaking bugs and RCE vulns
Turns out they have been using AI for decades.
“You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.
To be fair, the AI’s not wrong. It’s probably better, but just a teeny tiny bit so.
Honestly, AI is like a genie - whatever you come up with he’ll just butcher and misinterpret so you start questioning both your own sanity and the semantics of language. Good thing these genies have no wish limit, but bad thing that they murder rainforests while generating their non-sequitur replies.
“Auto complete generated 30% of characters”
Fixed it.
I do use AI for simple questions, and it works fairly well for that, but this claim by MS is just marketing bullshit.
This is my experience. It can be useful for simple things that used to be found with a web search before AI slop broke things. For example, I was having trouble getting a simple CGO program for a POC to communicate with the main Go process. This should have been solvable easily with documentation but the CGO docs are pretty bad and sample code was near impossible to find due to AI slop in the search results. GPT was able to provide the needed sample code to unblock me.
Ah but it was nice for a minute imagining microsoft vibe coding windows…
He used the words “written by software”. This is ambiguous and doesn’t mean AI, for example, using annotations for variables and generating the getters and setters would count. Right click and create function body for interface function definitions also.
They’re exaggerating to pretend their AI is more useful than it is.
People have been using annotations to generate code since I rode my dinosaur to work.
Intellisense in visual studio has also been really good for over a decade. Which is technically also written by software and not me.
I mean, really good intellisense is a great improvement, but it’s not replacing devs any time soon.
Don’t forget code generation for stuff like bindings or database schemes
This only makes sense if they are counting intellisense auto complete as “AI written”
Has to be something like that. Nadella is somehow cheating with the number, trying to keep the AI hype going.
You could say ALL of my latest scripts were written with AI. Because I often use it to get a hint or gather some boilerplate code (which I still go over and modify).
Was the auto complete in visual studio not a “trained” set before the llm craze kicked off? Would not surprise me if they decided to include that.
This makes sense and would explain the mainline windows versioning and probably the xbox versioning too!
Microsoft to AI: List all the integers from one to eleven.
AI: 3. 95. 98. 2000. XP. Vista. 7. 8. 10. 11.
Windows hate train looks fun, but as someone who works in the industry, most of that code is probably just unit tests and boilerplate stuff.
Copilot is decent at quickly writing huge amounts of mostly correct, tedious unit test code, depending on your language/framework. And since Microsoft works with languages like C# and .NET for their native apps, and likely backend too, there is quite a bit of verbosity that Copilot can take care of. Also, documentation might count as well.
No real code is AI-generated. He’s just saying shit like this to keep idiot investors happy.
Thanks for the context
Isn’t that the problem tho. He’s the CEO of Microsoft which is supposed to be a bight end technology firm saying bullshit
Operations are one thing, but investors are another. The latter don’t know the sector, but they want profits.
So you have to convince them not to interfere with your activities, because they can make things worse.
I appreciate this explanation. But it doesn’t make it right, does it?
I’d guess it’s mostly the AI autocomplete stuff. I.e. you keep on typing until the AI guesses it right then press tab to save keystrokes. LLMs are really bad at making test cases in my experience; they, ironically, can’t do the simple but nuanced computations needed to figure out what the output should be given the inputs, or to recognize and test the edge cases.
Oh yeah it can’t do anything complicated, only on simple modules. And I usually give it pretty detailed instructions on my expected I/O. It just converts a few sentences of English to dozens of lines of code.
If they start with those products today with zero marketing budged and zero user base nobody would use it. Those CEOs are just clowns.
Even worse, whenever a good new technology does pop up they buy it and ruin it.
“Written by software” does not inherently mean AI.
Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella said that 20% to 30% of code inside the company’s repositories was “written by software” — meaning AI.
Nadella gave the figure after Zuckerberg asked roughly how much of Microsoft’s code is AI generated today.
I highlighted part of the article for you.
I vaguely remember talk about companies like Google having software that fixes/writes code and that was ages before LLMs.
Code generators being a prime and ancient example
We can tell
It shows
Stole it as if I wrote it
Government spyware finally has a challenger for the title of “primary reason that most Microsoft software runs like hot garbage”.
I bet they’re counting code written while someone had an AI plugin installed as “written by AI” and I bet that accounts for almost all of that 30%. On top of that, I’m betting that they made it mandatory to have such a plug in, and the other 70% is just code written before they mandated this.
Also, having 1/3 lines with obvious code that can be auto suggested correctly would make sense, but that is hardly code “written by ai” in the way they suggest.
Those are the easy time savings though, the safe easy stuff the developer doesn’t have to worry about anymore. (Giving them time do the gnarly stuff)
It is exactly the opposite, with simple, predictable auto-complete you didn’t have to worry about that anymore, with LLMs you always have to look at it in detail because every little thing could be just plain completely different and wrong.
I can read way faster than I can type though. You still check it, but it’s pretty good as that kind of stuff once you have an example for it to follow.
Reading code is usually orders of magnitude slower than writing code. Sure, typing might be slower than reading but to check if it is what you intended you have to understand it too.
Well, I’m generally very anti-LLM but as a library author in Java it has been very helpful to create lots of similar overloads/methods for different types and filling in the corresponding documentation comments. I’ve already done all the thinking and I just need to check that the overload makes the right call or does the same thing that the other ones do – in that particular case, it’s faster. But if I myself don’t know yet how I’m going to do something, I would never trust an AI to tell me.
Well, okay, I can see how it would be useful in languages like Java that are extremely verbose and have a low expressiveness. Writing Java pretty much was already IDEs with code generation 20 years or so ago because nobody wants to write so much boilerplate by hand.
I’d guess a lot of the people writing the code don’t even have it turned on, it’s just installed because management said it had to be, because management wants to be able to tell investors they’re “innovating work flows”.
Every few months I turn it on for a few days just to see if it is better.
Then I go back to the old AST based autocomplete that actually knows something useful about my code.
I am a small sample to confirm that’s exactly the reason in my brother’s company.
And in my company we’re pressured to make X prompts every week to the company’s own ChatGPT wrapper to show we’re being productive. Even our profit shares have a KPO attached to that now. So many people just type “Hello there” every morning to count as another interaction with the AI.
I would be very surprised if 30% of their code lines had even been touched at all by anyone since AI coding assistants became a thing.
I could see stuff getting small changes and them claiming that the entirety of the new version is “written by AI”.
I wish this shot from The Terminator had the camera showing Sarah Conner’s face instead of Reese’s, because it’d be such an appropriate meme image on multiple levels for when someone makes a misleading claim about some current AI system.
this makes way more sense than hundreds of shitty devs.
Even their AI crashes all the time, its brutal.
this is why I get so much business as a IT consultant lol
??? No it’s not! Can investors sue because this is such an obvious lie? Pls I have 0.3 Microsoft shares
Are they including code generated to test their own models capability maybe?
Yeah that’d explain some stuff. Happy to have switched to Linux
Same. My games even run faster.
I’m still forced to use Microsoft Outlook and teams, unfortunately, and boy oh boy is it bad.
Yesterday i spent 45 minutes of a 1,5 meeting (that would have been 45 minutes) on trying teams to please try and use the right microphone, please share a screen (not working under Firefox or chrome now, apparently)
I can’t wait for the day that I have some time to get us off that dog shit
I love that Outlook occasionally fires up one of its keyboard shortcuts and clears your entire email you were typing if you’re not paying attention.
Fucking love it.
not working under Firefox
Weird
or chrome
Oh, there it is
Feature exclusive, huh!
Outlook is pretty damned bullet proof, Teams, OTOH, is a fucking mess. I can see IT wanting to keep everything in the same ecosystem, that’s perfectly sane, but I’m certain Zoom can be setup to honor AD credentials. We set it to use Google SSO.
Ha, yeah my Outlook will randomly just not be able to connect to server when starting up. This is from fresh boot every day, some days it just can’t, have to reboot and then it works! Fucking brilliant, they managed to break email.
