- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
How about… AI replaces government officials! A lot cheaper. Might actually get things right. And how could it fuck up any worse than what we have?
A lot. The answer is it could fuck things up a lot worse than what we have.
“Goverment bad durr durr”
If those project managers could read, they would actually be able to use Jira.
I regret what I wrote.
I realised, just being able to read, doesn’t make sure they can actually use Jira
The client wants to drag and drop their own personalized excel file with no guaranteed formatting or column order or data contract in order to import their data into our system <3
Strangely enough we actually solved this problem with AI a few months back. We upload the excel file to Gemini and have a prompt to extract the data we need in a specific json format. And it works surprisingly well.
It would still have to be in at least somewhat of a consistent format. Even a human would require that.
If they’re just going to write the details however they feel on any particular day and then just expect someone or something to be able to interpret that they’re going to have a bad time.
How well? Bet your life on it well, or “fewer hallucinations than we would have guessed” well? I’ve considered and toyed around with openAI models for logging supply room check offs in a JSON format and it went better than I hoped but worse than I needed.
Really well. Temp turned down all the way, and Gemini has this new feature to run and execute code… Not function calling… It can write a small python script, run it and return the output.
So our prompt explains the excel spreadsheet, then tell it exactly the format we need it in, and then tell it to use python and pandas to read in the CSV, clean it up and reshape it the way we need it to match what we expect and voila.
So hallucinations are not really and issue with the data as it’s simply writing code which then deterministically processes and returns the data.
Edit to add more info: basically Gemini can create and run a lambda function on the fly. And if you’re a coder you can really guide the prompt. Eg "load this into pandas. Then remove all the empty columns. Also remove the total rows. Now unpivot the data so the months are not columns but in separate rows with a column called month.
You get the idea.
Holy smokes, how did I not think to turn the temperature down?! That’s smart! Thanks for getting back to me!
Google thanks you for your data.
The second one. It is always the second one.
Needs more AI to randomly guess what the columns might be
Jesus, this gave me war flashbacks.
Please, do elaborate. Let others feast on your suffering.
May I?
A controlling department wasn’t granted any money for digitializing their workflow.
So these guys created their own solution(s!). Things like dedicated “user interfaces” loading data from tables created by hand. After years these people realized that data formatting is quite the issue.
They started to put random rules into different tables:
Two empty lines: New Group Data Record. One empty line: New Subgroup Data Record.
Excel tables aggregating this data via hardcoded links.
A dedicated table to start calculations on parent tables.
They mutated data like this:
Load data from excel files into one. Manually delete, add or change lines (or columns). Start a collection run from dedicated excel file and load new excel file data and replace old excel file data.
They had files where ‘it was easier to read’ when they pivot the data. This was troublesome since some values are intermediate results. Dropping one column may imply dropping another one as well.
All workflows required manual alignments along the way.
They were only able to process 10% of the data from a year within a year. Managing millions in cash.
Their data input came from different internal sources. Programs which were written two decades ago once and without any tests. Talking like VB, macro’s from host servers and copy-pasta data from other internal programs.
And don’t get me started on customer tables… They created a zip-code encoded filesystem hierarchy where each customer data (you guessed it, excel file) was renamed and then saved. In each of these directories where randomly named files if something went wrong; So no actual file patterns to rely on.
I respect them.
They creates a diagram for their tables with word. Word! (Didn’t know either: you can select the web view in the bottom right corner and you get an infitive canvas…) Madness.
Holy cow :O
I had a potential client, an accountant. They had their own, uh, system within a spreadsheet. They wanted me to program another system to be able to send their spreadsheet output into our governments IRS. Did a little back-and-forth but could not convince them to drop the idea.
I love how this is a universal experience.
Or headers. Just unlabeled data in a CSV.
Yep, RIP
Do we have the same client?
Everyone has and is that client.
Yeah but when I’m like that it’s justified
Just wait until QA gets a hold of it
Good, I hope so. Whatever puts an end to the hipster, activist dev is a solid win.
Yeah, I have a guess that it didn’t even fullly understood the prompt behind this slop either…
AI Project Manager: Create a button on a webpage that, when clicked, displays an alert saying “Hello World!”
AI Programmer: “What a sensible requirement! Here you go.”
AI Billing Department: “Project completed, that’ll be 10 million dollars.”
Client AI Payments Department: “Sounds right, paid!”AI Quarterly Call Bot: Delivery is on time and synergy is high!
AI investment selector: This company looks profitable. Purchase!
Another crap meme made with AI, yay, I love AI slop
Is it?
I’m checking the comments to be sure, as I also get a slight “AI-feel” from this meme.
Great! Software isn’t bloated, convoluted, incomprehensible, fragile enough already!
I had a client once explain to me that his request for the 75% redesign of his mobile app would be simple because “it’s just 3 pages”
That was the exact quote
I know that was hardly related to the post, but it reminded me of that and I needed to vent to my therapist (aka strangers on Lemmy)
I feel you. Just ended coding “a little special case” that resulted in dozens of files changed, all because I refused to make it with dirty hidden hack, and that was a clear-cut technical if-branching even, no vague ideas
Talking to a client is times that amount of hurdle
Current LLMs would end that sketch soon, agreeing with everything the client wants. Granted, they wouldn’t be able to produce, but as far as the expert narrowing down the issues of the request, ChatGPT would be all excited about making it happen.
The hardest thing to do with an LLM is to get it to disagree with you. Even with a system prompt. The training deep down to make the user happy with the results is too embedded to undo.
The hardest thing to do with an LLM is to get it to disagree with you.
Yeah, I occasionally use conversational AI and its really hard to let the AI have any agency in the story because they usually just go ahead with whatever you write
A trick I’ve employed is to pretend to believe in something completely different. If it says “no, you’re wrong” and goes on to tell me what I actually believe, then it’s a good indicator that I might be on the right path.
You… you got AI to follow Cunningham’s Law? The easiest way to get the right answer is to give the wrong one.
I don’t know how to feel about this.
Managers about to find out the hard way that all the requirements are in the brains of those they laid off.
I’m sure coding bootcamp and AI will turn them into leet hax0rs.
I feel this in my bones. Even before the recent round of restructuring we’ve had a significant about of turnover. Our infrastructure is a massive rube golberg machine with multiple houses of cards built on top of it. Institutional knowledge was never written down and it has been leaving the company at an accelerating rate over the past 5 years. Tons of “new blood” making lots of assumptions on how things work is resulting in… humorous end results.
Definitely happening at at least one major company I’m familiar with.
Requirements and everything else.
Customer requirements are basically always “I want what my Excel sheet used to do”.
Make sure to convert
1/2
toFebruary
“You mean you want it to corrupt your data and end up with conflicting changes once you share it?”
TBF if the spreadsheet works, why change anything?
That depends. Is the spreadsheet doing what it’s intended for, or one of the hundreds of things it can do but really shouldn’t?
I’ve made my fair share of spreadsheets, including time tracking, vehicle scheduling, email automations, map integrations, god forgive me even ‘databases’ - all of that because no one was willing to pay for a proper solution.
So I’m not saying spreadsheets can’t or shouldn’t ever be used for those things, but a dedicated solution for a problem may indeed be a good reason to change things.
They change it because they need more money. (talking about Excel here)
And soon you’ll see ads in the fn suggestions drop down
and ads in unused cells
and ads while the Solver is running (made in VisualBasic, running on top of WebAssembly, running on interpreted Python, using a Java Interpreter on your Web Browser to make sure you watch the ad for as long as possible)And that’s why we need to make our own spreadsheet software.
<.<
We have an excel. It’s more… a group of excels? They call each other. Opening and running VBA within each other. The excels are “run” nightly, and take well over an hour to do their thing.
Should we just keep it in Excel?
I want faster horses.
Stupid PM. Forgot to say the button needs to be corn-flower blue.
Make pop.
My wife had her first meeting with Chat Gpt today.
She went from a random question about her job to the AI offering to taking care of her LinkedIn page, and promoting alternative positions for her.
It feels to me the product manager is in trouble too.