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- cross-posted to:
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Ours put our rent up 25% so just because I was upset I paid this month’s rent a week late and they were complaining they needed the money to pay their montgage… Bitch please I don’t wanna hear about your financial problems
They need your money to pay their mortgage. Looks like you are paying for their house. I guess it’s one thing if that house is entirely occupied by you, but I’ve had this very same situation where I’m renting their basement yet paying $1300 (which was actually more than their mortgage)
It’s so fucking disgusting and insulting to not only not be able to afford your own home because of all this b.s, but to also be paying for someone else’s home…
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🖕😁
You can also tell by her anorexic physique that she’s no landchad. No fridge raiding happening here.
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The idea that ALL landlords are exploiting ALL tenants ALL of the time is just so fucking stupid it’s hard to listen to. Goods and services cost money, idk why that is such a hard concept to grasp. I lean left and will probably never vote R for the rest of my life, but it’s hard to listen to people like that who have no understanding of basic economics.
the alternative is that I don’t rent out part of my house and then there will be less housing
This is only part of it. The “housing shortage” exists not because there aren’t enough homes, but that there are not enough homes on the market. Truthfully, renting out a spare bedroom is not the focus of people’s ire (though through a certain lens it is still a problem, but I won’t go into it here). The problem is that rent seekers are pricing people out of the housing market, which is creating higher demand for rentals, which drives up the market price, ect. It’s a systemic problem, and not necessarily one of individual culpability. Another part of the problem is the commodification of homes: any action taken to address home affordability will necessarily drive down home values (they are the same thing, after all), and many people depend on the value of their home not dropping. It’s a bubble with millions of people at risk of loosing their homes if it pops.
There’s this convenient assumption for landlords that the rental market is full of people who simply want to be renters, or full of people who simply can’t afford to purchase their own home (usually by some moral failing), when the reality is that rent seekers are creating the problem that they claim to be solving. Houses wouldn’t be so expensive if there weren’t so many people buying houses for the purpose of renting out.
All these cucks can blow me.
Of course, there are other reasons why people might be angry with landlords.
Landlords must exist because people need to rent housing, and it sure sounds like you’re doing it right. Some landlords (and some tenants) are awful human beings who should not be landlords while others are good people.
A bigger problem is happening in areas with housing shortages. Housing prices have been skyrocketing for 10+ years and home owners have been leveraging themselves with their home equity to buy other homes. On a large scale, that eats up a lot of housing supply, increases prices, and makes it more difficult for people without existing real estate equity to buy a house.
In the city where I live, owning a house is essentially not possible for middle-class people unless their parents give them a down payment. Even my girlfriend and I, who combine for more than triple the average household income in the city, are taking years and years to save for a $300k+ down payment that’s needed to bring the mortgage payment down to $6k/mo.
Landlords didn’t create the housing shortage, but I can see why someone who’s struggling to buy a house while watching landlords buy multiple houses can develop a hatred for them.
Or all these people are fucking idiots who are just obsessed with labels and culture wars.
New here?
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I feel this so much. I own a property. I rented it out. I ran into that exact same lineup of expenses vs income you note here and… I ended up taking my house OFF the rental market. It’s just not worth it.
I keep getting into these discussions with people who yell “It’s immoral to buy a house and rent it out. Landlords must provide housing for renters at a loss so I can have cheap housing” and then… “It’s an investment and you as the owner must fund my low cost housing because you might earn equity in the property when you sell it in the future.”
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Well that’s rather snowflakey… if you aren’t part of the problem why are you identifying with them?
It truly is a wonder why y’all are hated. You’re so… humble.
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some sort of business such as being a landowner
It is wild seeing “owning land” being described as being a “business”
That isn’t what a landlord does. They’re supposed to keep the property maintained, help tenants with things that break, provide and maintain amenities, and handle macro issues like pest control and spraying.
There are absolutely shitty landlords out there who do nothing to earn their money, but there are also landlords who take their job seriously and maintain the property, and are genuinely helpful.
There are absolutely shitty landlords out there who do nothing to earn their money
That is because landlords don’t extract rent for services, they extract rent simply from owning the property and charging rent to use it. That there are some landlords that maintain the value of their property better than others is irrelevant.
It’s like saying “there were good slave owners, too!”. It’s not the treatment of the slaves that was the problem with slavery, it was the ownership and control of human beings. The problem isn’t the poor service of landlords, it’s the ownership and control over housing that someone else needs to exist. That landlords can still extract rent while doing nothing to maintain the property only serves as evidence that they aren’t being paid for any kind of service or added value. They get paid simply because they own something someone else needs.
How would a society without rentals work?
Lol i like how both of these replies seem to concede landlords are like slave owners.
Do you consider mortgages to be the same as renting? They charge you interest in exchange for letting you borrow money to own your home, is that rent? I’m trying to figure out what’s tripping you up. If landlords “provide housing” to those who can’t afford to buy, banks do the same thing. If landlords provide maintenance to a property, maintenance workers and contractors do the same thing. If landlords manage a collection of related properties as in an apartment building, then a housing co-op does the same thing.
In all honesty, I have a really hard time understanding why you think landlords are somehow essential.
I wasn’t saying anything about mortgages equivalency to rent, or that landlords are essential. I’m just curious as to how a society without landlords would work, in your view.
Housing Co-ops, public housing, personal ownership.
What do you propose? No one owns land? Or everyone should be able to purchase a home?
Making it illegal to rent property you don’t personally live on.
If someone wants to rent out their basement, or split their home into a duplex then they are creating housing and I have no problem with that. Someone purchasing a home they have no intention living in so they can profit off someone else requiring shelter to live is a parasite.
I can’t quite imagine how hotels would work then. Generally, you’d say “Oh, we’ll make an exception for them” but then many people would try to skirt themselves into the exception.
Do you think people who stay at a hotel have the same rights under the law as renters?
Why are we pretending different dwelling classifications don’t already exist? Hotels are an entire classification unto itself, same with homesteads, which is what op is referring to
Is this supposed to be some kinda gotcha? You think everyone being able to purchase a home is some kinda outlandish impossible feat?No, serious question. Just wondering what world was being envisioned.
Not everyone wants to buy a house - if I know I’m only staying in an area for a year or two, I wouldn’t want to go to the hassle of buying and selling a place. Or if I move to a new area, renting for a while until I decide where I want to live longer term is a useful tool.
Ahh, I see! Personally, I think if everyone was able to afford a home, then buying and selling one wouldn’t really be a hassle.
They get paid simply because they own something someone else needs.
Does that mean rental car companies are evil entities as well?
Ignoring the hyperbole (I never suggested landlords were evil), are car rentals engaging in economic rent extraction? Are cars a scarce resource? If not, then it is not the same.
Ignoring the hyperbole (I never suggested landlords were evil)
My apologies. I was confusing you with assassin_aragorn (who you quoted), who made this comment…
absolutely shitty landlords
I was paraphrasing by using the word evil as a catch-all, from that comment.
are car rentals engaging in economic rent extraction?
AKA being available for rental? Yes, they are. They’re a business, they charge as much as they can get away with.
Are cars a scarce resource? If not, then it is not the same.
Housing is not scarce, just too expensive for some/many to afford, in the areas they want to live in.
I literally drove by a new housing development today, they do exist. But it was far away from a central urban area that has lots of activity.
That’s capitalism, and that sucks, but it’s where we are right now.
Jesus. The “absolutely shitty landlords” was in a quote block because it came from the comment I was responding to. That was their tone, not mine. In case you want it spelled out, landlords aren’t evil.
Did you look up what rent extraction was? I’ll let you look into it, I’m not a dictionary. Car rentals aren’t considered rent extraction because they aren’t a scarce resource. By definition they are mobile: someone can’t own ALL the cars in an area, because someone could buy one and bring it into town.
Land (and by extension HOMES) are scarce, especially by location. If someone owns all the land in an area, someone can’t just… Drive more into the area? A landowner could build more homes on their land (development), but the rent being EXTRACTED is by definition that component of its price beyond it’s costs of construction and maintenance.
Adam Smith took issue with rent [his term is rent, but it’s more specifically rent EXTRACTION] because rent is unproductive: it is defined and quantified by HOW MUCH MORE it is than what it costs to produce and maintain the things being rented. Whereas other commodity prices are determined by what it costs to bring it to market (wages+profit), rent is determined by HOW MUCH MORE. They extract their price simply by wielding their ownership over it, and the profit they derive from it is defined by that unproductive component of its price.
That’s capitalism, and that sucks, but it’s where we are right now.
Well fuck me, I guess, right? Guess we’re stuck with it?
Fuck off with your demeaning tone. If landlords disappeared tonight the world would be quantifiably better (those were my words that time, have fun)
Good old landlords mocking. I bet there is sub-“lemmy” for that
My old landlord refused to fix our water heater, the leaking roof causing mould and water damage, the outlets that were falling off, the broken light switches that didn’t work, the ceiling light that was flickering and and literally hanging by the wires. All for $2000/month + utilities. Then he kicked us out because he wanted to sell the place, but now he can’t sell it because no bank will touch it with the amount of water damage it has lmao.
Oh ya, can’t forget the 5 times he’s banged on our door threatening us with his lawyer because he stole $100 from us, we asked for it back, but he refused to answer our calls, so we had to wait 12 fucking months before our lease was up and we started paying month to month for us to subtract the $100 he owed us for 12 months from the payment.
Haha, can you imagine landlords playing the victim like this xD classic. Cracked me up, thanks mate!
Paranormal story here…
I have the first good landlords I’ve had in my entire life. We have a clean, decent townhouse - two stories w/ unfinished basement. It’s in a safe residential/school zone, right behind my work, and he’s renting it to us for several hundred less than he could be getting based on other similar rentals. I guess he grew up here and has sentimental attachment, and just wants it taken care of. He purchased the connecting unit and is renting it equally low to other great tenants who take care of it. Guy is a defense lawyer and doesn’t need to squeeze every drop out of it I guess.
Him and his wife are super considerate of our time and our needs, get us nursery/greenhouse gift cards in the spring and Christmas baskets every year. They’re fucking anomaly and it’s absolutely perplexing after two decades of shitty landlords.
Landlord struggle lmao. Must be nice living off of other peoples paycheques, ngl
Pretty much. I will say, although it’s extremely rare to find, but does exist (I know a landlord like this): some landlords get into landlording to try to make places affordable for others, meaning they barely take a cut for themselves. These are not the people you see raising rent at every opportunity. I’m also not refering to any landlord who decides to take “section 8” housing, as some of them are also predatory. To that end, her struggle is the same struggle as her renters, trying to make ends meet, herself. She owns her own “place” but her “place” is on wheels, making her technically a homeless landlord. I doubt that she is the only landlord like this in the US but as a long-time renter, I’m well aware she’s in the minority of landlords. Most landlords do so to earn a profit, the worst offenders being for-profit corporations who own many properties. Some landlords do try to help others, and I really wish there were more like them. I think the majority of landlords simply try to “price what the market will bear” which is usually “increase rent as much as we can by law” with the excuse that “we, the landlords take on all the risk so we need all the profit”.
I would love to see more “worker co-op” style landlording, although I don’t know how that would work techncially.
We had a pair of those in my area. They were famous for “affordable housing”.
End up the pair was worth 12 mil from cashing in on all their “goodwill.”
I’m a little confused by this.
They were famous for “affordable housing”
If by this you mean they were one of the cheapest places to rent in the area, then good on them. Ultimately this is what tenants need is affordability.
End up the pair was worth 12 mil from cashing in on all their “goodwill.”
This is where you lose me. If you’re saying they rented some of the cheapest properties in your area and they profited $12,000,000 off their tenants, then holy shit man where do you live? That must mean that every other landlord is profiting multiple times this 12mil amount, maybe in excess of $50mil per landlord.
If you’re telling me that they weren’t actually the cheapest, they just called themselves the cheapest and somehow were the most expensive, this justifies the profit more but at $12,000,000 I have to ask how many properties did they own?!
If instead you didn’t mean to say “from cashing in on all their ‘goodwill’”, just that the pair had 12million saved up and were able to make housing affordable then indeed this is amazing! Ultimately the only individuals who are going to be able to do this are people who already come from wealth, or are at least people who can afford to make a loss on their rental properties.
So, somehow I’m not sure any of those are what you meant. Can you explain? Is there a news story about these people?
Yes, there was a news story about these people. It was 4 or 5 years ago. They were tying to get grants from our local government so they could continue to rent their properties so cheap.
They were playing themsleves off as a mom and pop that just wanted to help the community.
Ends up they owned something like 8 houses and 2 24 unit rental properties and were taking in profit on the rise in real estate all while getting grants for their good will.
The point is, landlords, by their nature, are not good Samaritans.
Yeah, you’re not talking about the type of people I’m talking about, you’re refering to literal scammers. Try re-reading my first message and you’ll understand what I mean. The landlord I’m talking about doesn’t get government grants, isn’t scamming tenants.
You’re right that lots of landlords see landlordship for what it is: a business that you can invest in. You’re wrong that this extends to all landlords. A majority of landlords maybe, but some landlords are actually trying to help even if it means they don’t have a place to rent for themselves or a home that isn’t mobile.
Housing coops are already a thing.
In a lot of ways I’d rather someone who lives in a different building have more authority than my neighbor. HOAs already have a bas enough reputation
HOAs are not co-ops.
Do at least a Google search before spewing your uninformed opinion.
I didn’t say they were? I said I didn’t want my neighbors making decisions about my living situation.
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What did I say that was wrong?
TIL. But now is this more of a communal living arrangement (e.g., free room and board but you’ll need to help clean the facility and garden, etc)? Or is this something where someone who has money and a job already can just go to a housing coop to rent a place to live in much the same way they would go to a grocery store coop to buy food? If so that’s exactly what I’m talking about.
Coops are co-owned by their members. Usually they have an unpaid elected or voluntary board that makes decisions. The decisions are on budget, allocation of work for the members and who to interview if there’s vacancies.
The budget goes towards services, repairs, maintenance, etc
The individual members of the coop have weekly chores that they need to perform. These chores can take 2-8hrs per week depending on season and the abilities and capabilities of the individual. Often it’s things like minor handyman work, yard work, painting, pulling out the garbage bins, etc
Coops like to get new members that have a profession. Plumbers, carpenters, electricians, accountants, handymen and other such professions are always in high demand. Chores related to these have their material costs covered by the board’s budget. If there’s overrun on the allocated time, it’s usually compensated or outside professional services are hired instead.
Coop fees are usually much lower than renting. In Montréal for example rent is anywhere from ~$1300 to $2500 Canadian for a 1-2BR, depending on how close one lives to transit or downtown/popular areas. Coops usually pay around C$500-$800 in fees for the same place. All of that money goes towards the budget of the coop, none of which is used to enrich the board or any single individual.
meaning they barely take a cut for themselves.
Meaning if they just sold the place to the people renting it out would be even more affordable?
Usually the issue would be that these places cost large sums up front to acquire, and there is inherent risk in lending money or selling something for payment over time.
The most equitable solution under those circumstances IMO would be a pay-towards-ownership rental model with an agreed stewardship rate for routine maintenance and if they terminate lease early, the accrued funds towards the ownership are disbursed. This allows the “renter” (future owner) the ability to eventually accrue the value of the home without risk of loss of investment, while also allowing the “owner” (steward) to ensure that maintenance can be performed. Would have to work out how to pay for incidental maintenance like a failed water heater or storm damage, but splitting cost across owned percentage may be fair, or based on fault, etc.
It’s a lot of hassle for something that we should instead fix at the systemic level, but so long as we’re looking at the current system then this ought to do well by both parties and would be accessible for those fortunate/lucky enough to be pulling significant salaries to help those less fortunate.
Cooperatives are also a good option long-term but I’m thinking in terms of folks that are living hand-to-mouth being able to earn towards a permanent home right away rather than a group of people with enough surplus money to pool for shared home(s). A well-established coop would be a better support network and may be able to grow faster (help more folks) than the alternatives.
I think the biggest problem is how does the landlord break lease? Because if you can be kicked out you lose all that you’ve accumulated against your will. If you can’t be evicted, you’ve forced the landlord to both keep you as a renter and keep ownership of the property until it’s paid by the renter, which isn’t necessarily realistic.
They should be able to sell the property if they need to. The person renting being part of the transaction and forced to be allowed to continue renting is only kind of a solution, because the new owners might want to live in that house, or have a say in who rents it. There’s also the issue of funds already accumulated by the landlord. Does that get deducted off the price they sell it for?
I think there’s just a few too many veriables for it to work as a solution.
These are good points. In a place where rent was actually cheaper, moving from place to place would be more of a nusence and less of a gamble with homelessness. The reality is that people will need to rent because they need a place to live, and that renting isn’t a great solution compared to buying, that not everyone can afford to buy, that some renters can destroy investments and prevent a place from being rented again, lots of landlords are predatory with their rent increases.
One thing that that doesn’t seem to be true at least with what I’ve seen, is that lots of rentals prevent buyers from buying houses. I’ll leave the ethics of should someone buy a house with existing renters who will need to be evicted to another discussion. That said, buyers who are interested in a house can usually make an offer even if the house is not on the market, and that offer may even be accepted, pending the end of the rental contract or if the contract allows, 30 days notice. I was kicked out of an apartment this way - I didn’t have to go, but they were renovating and the new rent would be $400 more, or I could buy it outright as their endgoal was to sellt hem as condos. Lots of management companies are also realtor companies. After I moved out of the last rental, it was sold for half a million dollars (it wasn’t near that nice, very tiny and very old with outdated wiring) about a month after I moved out. The photos to sell that place were unreal, they must have done a complete makeover the day after I moved out and sold it less than 30 days later.
The two major issues with the US housing market right now are:
- The prices are high because the demand is high. My advice to buyers is offer 50k over asking price at least to start. When the seller gets multiple offers yours has a better chance at being one of the higher offers in that bundle. Houses can be sold in a week.
- The interest rates right now are so bad that no one who has an existing mortage at a decent rate wants to sell, as it would mean financing another home at a much higher rate. This limits inventory of houses available for buyers and renters alike. My advice to buyers is please, please try to wait until the interest rates return to something below 4.5%, ideally something like 3%.
The rent-to-own model also doesn’t work to well at least in the US because you’re essentially agreeing to a price of the house in x amount of years. After x amount of years, even if the house isn’t worth $y it will still be sold to you for $y.
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I don’t know the details of her situation, but it’s something like in a market that averages over $1000 for housing, she rents out at below $1000. I mean to say for her properties she could choose to rent at the market rate but this would mean the people who wants to rent to, people who aren’t able to afford >$1000 for housing, would you know… be unable to afford it.
As for barely making a cut for themselves, I’ve only known a few landlords but none who owned the house and title (without a loan with the bank). the landlords I do know, herself included most likely got 30 year fixed mortages on their properties, meaning their interest rate stays the same for 30 years.
Each month those landlords need to pay the mortage and will need to pay for repairs or repair the properties themselves. Say the mortage, due to the landlord’s credit rating is pretty good, and comes in around $800 a month. Say that on average the landlord has to pay $50 a month on maintenance. The landlord needs to charge $850 to make no money, to afford no food for themselves, or otherwise “break even”. What I’m saying here is that in this market, a property just like hers (x beds, y baths) rents out for $1200 a month. I’m saying that she’s more likely to rent her property out at $900 or $850. Although when people fall on tough times, she’ll also just waive the rent or work with them with what they can pay.
Meaning if they just sold the place to the people renting it out would be even more affordable?
Probably not. You’re assuming that the renters have good enough credit to get a loan from the bank at the same interest rate that the landlord can, that the renters can afford a down payment (sometimes that’s $10k+ right there). Keep in mind these are the renters that could not afford a $1200 a month place themselves. You’re assuming that the bank would give them the loan in the first place. You’re assuming that the current interest rates are reasonable (at time of writing, in the US, they are not - the difference between a 3% and 6% interest over 30 years is enormous and would make their rent far greater than $1200 a month).
You’re right that there are some renters who can afford to buy her properties if she put them on the market. Those renters hypthetically live in the property next to hers with x beds and y baths and they’re looking for a place to live. She could sell the property to them, but she’d then need to evict her current tenants, and since there’s a lack of landlords like her, they will probably need to move to another town or be homeless.
There’s not a clear right or wrong answer here.
There are a ton of landlords in here that are MALDING.
Because no one will pay their high rent? I hope so. This is the only way I think that rent will come down is if these places sit vacant for a while as it chips away at their mortgage.
What are they gonna do, live on the streets?
About that iFunny watermark…
I’m a landlord. I’m priced WELL below the market because my tenant is state patrol and is a great guy and a good family. I haven’t raised his rent ever. I will raise it when my HOA goes up next year, but that’s only to help cover my fees. If keep the rent so I can pick the right renters that is compatible with me. I rather have a good renter than a few bucks more a month.
I think the real test is if you give their deposit back. I’ve never gotten my deposit back without a fight, even after cleaning the apartment top-to-bottom. That’s why I always take photos before leaving.
This is the way!
My previous landlord was like this. Lived there 4 years, rent never went up. We left the place like we found it (which was pristine).
Just bc you are a great landlord doesn’t mean anyone should be able to hold such power over anyone. Not to mention ownership of land is a human concept we can live without.
It’s missing the wad of 100 dollar bills to wipe away the tears of this hardship
Thipical landlord in my country let you live in the shit with black wall full of humidity and no heater with an high price. And then they will also have the habits to Evict you if they don’t want to pay taxes. And prefer to leave you in the street. So I think that good landlord exists but most of them are just people that want money without give to you the bare minimum to live.