- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
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Joke’s on you, I always use 64 bit wide unsigned integers to store a 1 and compare to check for value.
So does the cpu
Wait until you hear about alignment
The alignment of the language and the alignment of the coder must be similar on at least one metric, or the coder suffers a penalty to develop for each degree of difference from the language’s alignment. This is penalty stacks for each phase of the project.
So, let’s say that the developer is a lawful good Rust
zealotPaladin, but she’s developing in Python, a language she’s moderately familiar with. Since Python is neutral/good, she suffers a -1 penalty for the first phase, -2 for the second, -3 for the third, etc. This is because Rust (the Paladin’s native language) is lawful, and Python is neutral (one degree of difference from lawful), so she operates at a slight disadvantage. However, they are both “good”, so there’s no further penalty.The same penalty would occur if using C, which is lawful neutral - but the axis of order and chaos matches, and there is one degree of difference on the axis of good and evil.
However, if that same developer were to code in Javascript (chaotic neutral), it would be at a -3 (-6, -9…) disadvantage, due to 2 and 1 degree of difference in alignment, respectively.
Malbolge (chaotic evil), however, would be a -4 (-8, -12) plus an inherent -2 for poor toolchain availability.
…hope this helps. have fun out there!
If JS is chaotic neutral, what then is chaotic evil?
All I’m saying is
"10" + 1 => "101" "10" - 1 => 9 "a" - "b" => NaNfair enough. My personal opinion might be that it’s evil, but perhaps that’s because I expected some kind of order.
…or you can be coding assembler - it’s all just bits to me
True.
Well storing that would only take half a bit.
The 8-bit Intel 8051 family provides a dedicated bit-addressable memory space (addresses 20h-2Fh in internal RAM), giving 128 directly addressable bits. Used them for years. I’d imagine many microcontrollers have bit-width variables.
bit myFlag = 0;Or even return from a function:
bit isValidInput(unsigned char input) { // Returns true (1) if input is valid, false (0) otherwise return (input >= '0' && input <= '9'); }And, you can have pointers to bits!
We could go the other way as well: TI’s C2000 microcontroller architecture has no way to access a single byte, let alone a bit. A Boolean is stored in 16-bits on that one.
Nothing like that in ARM. Even microcontrollers have enough RAM that nobody cares, I guess.
ARM has bit-banding specifically for this. I think it’s limited to M-profile CPUs (e.g. v7-M) but I’ve definitely used this before. It basically creates a 4-byte virtual address for every bit in a region. So the CPU itself can’t “address” a bit but it can access an address backed by only 1 bit of SRAM or registers (this is also useful to atomically access certain bits in registers without needing to use SW atomics).
Tell this to the LPC1114 I’m working with. Did you ever run a multilingual GUI from 2kbytes RAM on a 256x32 pixel display?
I did a multilingual display with an 8031 in 1995 on a 2x16 text LCD. I had 128 bytes of RAM and an EPROM. Did English, Spanish and German.
You kids have it so easy nowadays. 🤣
Last counting was 114 languages on the LPC1114. And yes, with normal LCDs I’ve done similar things on an 8051 before.
Now store the numbers (array):
0 0 0 1 0 1 1 2
think 8 bytes???
Does anybody ever figure in parity when comparing bit sizes and all that jazz or are we only ever concerned with storage space?
You can’t store data in parity bits… so it’s irrelevant.
Wait till you realise the size of SSD sectors
boolean bloat
I first thought you wrote boolean float, not sure if that’s even worse.
boolean root beer float
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pragma(pack) {
int a:1, b:1, … h:1;
}
IIRC.
Then you need to ask yourself: Performance or memory efficiency? Is it worth the extra cycles and instructions to put 8 bools in one byte and & 0x bitmask the relevant one?
Sounds like a compiler problem to me. :p
A lot of times using less memory is actually better for performance because the main bottleneck is memory bandwidth or latency.
Yep, and anding with a bit ask is incredibly fast to process, so it’s not a big issue for performance.
It’s not just less memory though - it might also introduce spurious data dependencies, e.g. to store a bit you now need to also read the old value of the byte that it’s in.
It might also introduce spurious data dependencies
Those need to be in the in smallest cache or a register anyway. If they are in registers, a modern, instruction reordering CPU will deal with that fine.
to store a bit you now need to also read the old value of the byte that it’s in.
Many architectures read the cache line on write-miss.
The only cases I can see, where byte sized bools seems better, are either using so few that all fit in one chache line anyways (in which case the performance will be great either way) or if you are repeatedly accessing a bitvector from multiple threads, in which case you should make sure that’s actually what you want to be doing.
Could definitely be worse for latency in particular cases, but if we imagine a write heavy workload it still might win. Writing a byte/word basically has to do the same thing: read, modify write of cache lines, it just doesn’t confuse the dependency tracking quite as much. So rather than stalling on a read, I think that would end up stalling on store buffers. Writing to bits usually means less memory, and thus less memory to read in that read-modify-write part, so it might still be faster.
And you may ask yourself: where is my beautiful house? Where is my beautiful wife?
- Soon to be
- That’s me
Talking heads - once in a lifetime
Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down
Depending on the language
And compiler. And hardware architecture. And optimization flags.
As usual, it’s some developer that knows little enough to think the walls they see around enclose the entire world.
Fucking lol at the downvoters haha that second sentence must have rubbed them the wrong way for being too accurate.
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I don’t think so. Apart from dynamically typed languages which need to store the type with the value, it’s always 1 byte, and that doesn’t depend on architecture (excluding ancient or exotic architectures) or optimisation flags.
Which language/architecture/flags would not store a bool in 1 byte?
Apart from dynamically typed languages which need to store the type with the value
You know that depending on what your code does, the same C that people are talking upthread doesn’t even need to allocate memory to store a variable, right?
How does that work?
I think he’s talking about if a variable only exists in registers. In which case it is the size of a register. But that’s true of everything that gets put in registers. You wouldn’t say
uint16_tis word-sized because at some point it gets put into a word-sized register. That’s dumb.
things that store it as word size for alignment purposes (most common afaik), things that pack multiple books into one byte (normally only things like bool sequences/structs), etc
things that store it as word size for alignment purposes
Nope. bools only need to be naturally aligned, so 1 byte.
If you do
struct SomeBools { bool a; bool b; bool c; bool d; };its 4 bytes.
sure, but if you have a single bool in a stack frame it’s probably going to be more than a byte. on the heap definitely more than a byte
but if you have a single bool in a stack frame it’s probably going to be more than a byte.
Nope. - if you can’t read RISC-V assembly, look at these lines
sb a5,-17(s0) ... sb a5,-18(s0) ... sb a5,-19(s0) ...That is it storing the bools in single bytes. Also I only used RISC-V because I’m way more familiar with it than x86, but it will do the same thing.
on the heap definitely more than a byte
Nope, you can happily
malloc(1)and store a bool in it, ormalloc(4)and store 4 bools in it. A bool is 1 byte. Consider this a TIL moment.c++ guarantees that calls to malloc are aligned https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/memory/c/malloc .
you can call
malloc(1)ofc, but callingmalloc_usable_size(malloc(1))is giving me 24, so it at least allocated 24 bytes for my 1, plus any tracking overheadyeah, as I said, in a stack frame. not surprised a compiler packed them into single bytes in the same frame (but I wouldn’t be that surprised the other way either), but the system v abi guarantees at least 4 byte alignment of a stack frame on entering a fn, so if you stored a single bool it’ll get 3+ extra bytes added on the next fn call.
computers align things. you normally don’t have to think about it. Consider this a TIL moment.
typedef struct { bool a: 1; bool b: 1; bool c: 1; bool d: 1; bool e: 1; bool f: 1; bool g: 1; bool h: 1; } __attribute__((__packed__)) not_if_you_have_enough_booleans_t;This was gonna be my response to OP so I’ll offer an alternative approach instead:
typedef enum flags_e : unsigned char { F_1 = (1 << 0), F_2 = (1 << 1), F_3 = (1 << 2), F_4 = (1 << 3), F_5 = (1 << 4), F_6 = (1 << 5), F_7 = (1 << 6), F_8 = (1 << 7), } Flags; int main(void) { Flags f = F_1 | F_3 | F_5; if (f & F_1 && f & F_3) { // do F_1 and F_3 stuff } }Why not
if (f & (F_1 | F_3)) {? I use this all the time in embedded code.edit: never mind; you’re checking for both flags. I’d probably use
(f & (F_1 | F_3)) == (F_1 | F_3)but that’s not much different than what you wrote.
You beat me to it!
Or just
std::bitset<8>for C++. Bit fields are neat though, it can store weird stuff like a 3 bit integer, packed next to booleansThat’s only for C++, as far as I can tell that struct is valid C
I have a solution with a bit fields. Now your bool is 1 byte :
struct Flags { bool flag0 : 1; bool flag1 : 1; bool flag2 : 1; bool flag3 : 1; bool flag4 : 1; bool flag5 : 1; bool flag6 : 1; bool flag7 : 1; };Or for example:
struct Flags { bool flag0 : 1; bool flag1 : 1: int x_cord : 3; int y_cord : 3; };I watched a YouTube video where a dev was optimizing unity code to match the size of data that is sent to the cpu using structs just like this.
std::vector<bool>fits eight booleans into one byte.auto v = std::vector<bool>(8); bool* vPtr = v.data; vPtr[2] = true; // KABOOM !!!I’ve spent days tracking this bug… That’s how I learned about bool specialisation of std::vector.
std::vector<std::vector<bool>> is how I stored the representation of a play field for a Tetris game I made once.
