The sister raised in the US had an IQ 16 points lower than her sibling in Korea. Previous studies revealed that identical twins typically have no more than a 7-point IQ difference, making this case astounding.
Is this a typical quality of upvoted articles on [email protected]?
iq still a thing?
Yes. Contrary to current pop-sci thought, it’s not actually useless bunk. Epically when differences reach into 2 digits.
I didn’t realise it wasn’t a thing anymore.
I know it’s never been a good indicator of success or even cognitive abilities but it’s still a thing that people try to measure.
IQ is a very good indicator of cognitive abilities. It’s a poor indicator of kindness, morality, or honesty.
I know it’s never been a good indicator of success
I suppose you might define “success” in an unusual way, but IQ is the single highest correlate with income of all factors. Higher than parental income, race, or residential location.
If you’re interesting in learning more I recommend this article. They cite a lot of data and research. I’m happy to walk you through the directionality topic as well if you’re interested.
I may need you to walk me past my inhibitions about accepting scientific information from a website called PumpkinPerson that center justifies its articles.
I just watched a Veritasium video that said that IQ is not very strongly correlated with higher income.
I’ll take a look at the article too.
there are companies that still use myers-briggs personality tests for “compatibility”
Myers-Briggs is modern snake oil.
Meyers-Briggs is astrology with more steps
Yeah, that is accurate. Astrology pretending to be science.
It still is a thing, always will be. People are vastly differently skilled. The problem isnt that there are different abilities but that our centralized meat mill pushes them into categories. It doesnt make you better to have more skill in one area, it just means people should consider listening to you.
Why wouldn’t it be? It is the single most research metric in all of sociology. We have more evidence for the existence of the g factor (and its causal and correlative effects) than any other phenomenon in that entire school of science.
Don’t confuse the criticism of measurement tools with the premise that g doesn’t exist.
Of course not. IQ should be forbidden because it is racist, fascist and bad!
You can always tell which people took an “IQ test” (most of them probably even just did some bullshit online thing and not even a real one) and have nothing else going for them but a number that they think tells people they’re smart.
Yeah, about online tests, I’ve taken it twice in the olden days, once I got a result (probably due to connection problems) fitting a rock, and once I got something egghead high (probably due to the same).
And I’ve never met people mentioning their IQ test results as an argument other than what you said.
You just did it. 🤷♂️
I thought I did the opposite.
Apparently not in the US!
It’s mostly a metric people use to prove their superiority over other people, when all of the other metrics for happiness and success suggest otherwise.
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I learned about the issues with IQ long before “cancelling” was a thing.
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Ok, but if you’re gonna make a joke like that in a serious thread about actual IQ, you’re probably gonna want to include a little bit more so people are able to pick up what you’re putting down.
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Really? I thought I was being pretty cordial… Oh well.
It’s not canceled. It’s just not an accurate reflection of inherent overall intelligence but, instead, a measurement of very specific mental skills.
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It’s a test of pattern recognition. The difficulties come from trying to apply similar measurements between disparate populations, as the questions themselves tend to rely upon common understandings of the world. You can measure two people from two different cultures with two different tests, but then it’s more difficult to claim that the resulting scores are comparable. As long as people understand that it’s a rough approximation rather than something akin to video game stats, it’s quite useful.
Even video game stats have the same problems though, your W/L ratio in free for all should be a lot lower than in team deathmatch, or if you are playing a support class it’s expected you get less kills per game so comparing a support player vs a fragger will get you errors but if you control for as many variables as possible then IQ can be a not complete shit variable
Americans are so weird about IQ. Yes, indeed, some brains work better than others — by avoiding lead poisoning or traumatic brain injuries, for instance, and by reading books, pursuing higher education, and enjoying a fulfilling social environment.
Was the one raised in the U.S. around lead at some point?
No, but she had three concussions
What kind of concussions? Knocked out, bleeding from the head, and forced to stay in bed for a few days, or ran head first into door/wall/table and started crying with a mild headache?
I feel there’s a start difference between those two, and the article doesn’t appear to specify.
Every time my siblings or I had anything anyone considered a concussion. They couldn’t walk in a straight line, were throwing up when standing up. My sister got a concussion from a bad go-cart crash (it went through the barrier and fake wall). She was shaky on her feet for 3days, and had bad bruising all over her face. My brother fell head first over a raised porch railing into rocks, about 5ft. They had to glue the skin back together on his forehead because they couldn’t sew it the edges wouldn’t meet. Ever since he’s plagued by migraines especially when his sinuses are full. I was doing backflips on a trampoline, landed in the “cannon ball” position on the back of my neck/head. This slammed my right knee into my eye socket, giving me a spectacular black eye. But nearly immediately I got intense vertigo, nausea. If I closed my eyes it felt like I was falling, but I felt so tired. This lasted the rest of the day and I had be injured before noon.
Sure my mom might dramatically call a toddlers spill a concussion. But I my experience she only remembers that for like a week maybe. What she remembers and tells doctors and others about years later are the bleeding throwing up kind. Not saying I can tell she had serious concussions, just it would be really weird to report a little head bump and bruise for this kind of thing.
the researchers note that the sister raised in the US had suffered three previous concussions
the twin raised in Korea described growing up in a loving and harmonious family home, the adopted sister reported a harsher upbringing, colored by regular conflict and the divorce of her adoptive parents
It does seem as if there would be explanations for the unusual difference.
Right, this assertion is invalidated and agenda-driven.
Can you clarify?
It’s invalidated because multiple concussions would probably damage the brain and reasonably lower IQ. Also, the potential abuse that was hinted at would of course potentially affect IQ as well. It’s agenda-driven because it trivializes all of the above in order to push what seems to be an anti-USA agenda.
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That’s kind of an understatement. Three traumatic brain injuries is not exactly something that can be ignored when discussing differences in mental faculties.
Concussion, and Traumatic Brain Injury, are two very different diagnosis.
The two shouldn’t be conflated.I’m not conflating anything. A concussion is literally considered a mild TBI.
A concussion is a mild traumatic brain injury that affects brain function. Effects are often short term and can include headaches and trouble with concentration, memory, balance, mood and sleep.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/concussion/symptoms-causes/syc-20355594
Concussion is a type of mild TBI that may be considered a temporary injury to the brain but could take minutes to several months to heal.
https://www.ninds.nih.gov/health-information/disorders/traumatic-brain-injury-tbi
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) defines concussion as a traumatic brain injury (TBI) caused by a bump, blow, or jolt to the head or by a hit to the body that causes the head and brain to move rapidly back and forth.
https://biausa.org/brain-injury/about-brain-injury/what-is-a-brain-injury/concussion-mtbi
There seems to be this trend of masochistic behavior in the US. Where we take pride in our injuries and illness, bragging about working and pushing ourselves while we are suffering. The whole time telling ourselves it’s not that bad. It’s definitely stood out more since Covid, it’s stupid behavior though.
Thank the puritans who evolved into evangelicals and baptists for that.
“Religious freedom” to make others suffer is why they came here. The idea for separation between church and state did not come out of nowhere.
That does exist.
Just like the tendency to make things sound worse than they are.Why use the broader term instead of the more narrow, when both are accurate? Could it be in this case to associate a relatively minor injury with its most extreme version?
The same way that stapling your finger and being shot, are both wounds.
All concussions are traumatic brain injuries, not all traumatic brain injuries are concussions.
And there’s a reason for the two different terms. Concussions (or mild TBI), is a brief dysfunction of the brain. Full TBI is substantial often permanent damage.
Using the term TBI for concussion, is an example of manipulative intensifying language, to make something sound worse than it is.
Lol brain injury is cumulative (e.g. football players) in what way is calling brain injury what if is “manipulative intensifying language” lmao
This isnt me defending the US btw, apparently its the kind of place you get lots of concussions (the nice, non traumatic kind tho ;3)
If there are two correct and common terms; One broad that includes far more severe effects, and one narrow that specifically excludes the worst. Then choosing to use less accurate term is misleading and manipulative, intentionally or not.
It can be ignored if your only priority is dunking on America. I feel sorry for this young person being made into the poster child for everyone who would like to take America down a peg. Even the concussions will somehow get attributed to “the way things are there.”
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Especially if that environment includes head trauma.
Yes, but, IQ isn’t expected to be that much influenced by behavior.
source: My partner is a psychologist and sometimes I listen
What about the education systems? One of those two countries is heavily denying basic science at schools, teaching creationism as something at the same level as evolutionism, letting religion pollute education, banning books from schools, teaching obsolete two genders theory, etc. Is the study short about the differences in education?
What about the education systems?
Education, sure. But also environment, nutrition, and stress/trauma.
The US is polluted with heavy metals, our food is awful, and we regularly put residents (particularly young people) in extremely traumatic situations. All of that stunts intellectual development.
Its a side effect about the differences in education. IQ is relative to the population and education, they slightly increase it to keep the average around 100. The average person 100 years ago had 30 less IQ points, because education and child nutrition were non existent. Cut those things and your average person reverts back.
Other countries have only gotten better, the US has just gotten worse.
they slightly increase it to keep the average around 100
They don’t “slightly increase it to keep the average around 100.” The average is defined as 100. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_score https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification
My explanation is for laymen, 100 in 2025 is not the same 100 in 1925, my point.
Lots of people who talk about IQ don’t know what the Q stands for.
I have children. The amount of trauma a two year old would experience losing their family, being transported to a foreign country and adopted by different people would be
traumaticintense as hell.A two year old is not a newborn. That’s their entire world blowing up.
Yeah you can basically completely disregard any other aspect in this study, right? ‘massive trauma in early life has strong impact’ is the real finding here, and that’s hardly a new one
Luckily it’s very local, time wise. I don’t remember a thing from like 5 and earlier.
Just because a person doesn’t have a memory of a traumatic event doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect them. Kids can have lasting trauma effects even from things they were too young to remember.
That’s true. But I imagine a lot has to do with how they are received and how they deal with it. If the adopting parents handle it gracefully, then the child is in a good place to deal with their trauma, whether it’s consciously or subconsciously. At least I hope.
During the communist regime in Romania there was a ban on abortion and the state encouraged people to have lots of kids (sound familiar?). This lead to A LOT of kids in orphanages and not enough resources to properly care for them. Conditions were atrocious, to say the least.
But, that lead to a lot of research data by following the lives of kids who got adopted from those orphanages. It was determined that 4 month old was the cut-off point from where kids can still recover from traumatic experiences. Kids adopted younger than that did fine, but kids adopted after that age were affected for the rest of their lives. The fact that they didn’t actually remember things consciously did not matter.
That’s very interesting. I’m curious about how it affected their lives.
(And yes, sounds very familiar… 🚩🇺🇸🚩)
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Your anecdotal experience doesn’t have anything to do with this if you weren’t traumatized at a young age.
My parents were divorced when I was about 2? Not “trauma” maybe, but you’d think it might be something I might remember. I dunno.
I would not think that, no.
Makes sense, if I don’t remember it. But maybe it was just a calm separation.
Trauma doesn’t always come with memories. You might have some form of PTSD response to the stressors the divorce caused.
Significant trauma are frequently suppressed in memory.
Could be that, too. I have a great relationship with both my parents though so I doubt it’s PTSD in my particular case. Or at the very least I’ve had great support in subconsciously dealing with it, if anything. But still, yes!
Interesting. I’ve got very distinct memories from back then, though they’ve almost become memories of memories now.
From what I understand, this is how memory works. Every time you remember something, you’re actually remembering the last time you remembered it.
The medium in which memories are stored isn’t exactly digital or isolated from stimulus. If something disturbs the memory, or the memory gets taken over by some other shit you learn, then I imagine the memory will take on another shape. So in essence, you are recalling a current snapshot of the memory. But the more often you recall it, the more recent and solidified/consolidated the memory will be. Just like muscle memory. The brain will make strong connections for things it uses often, because it is implied that those things are important for survival.
I’m no expert(!) but I imagine this is how it works.
Lmao at all of the nationalists post-hoccing away at shitty explanations as to why the US isn’t just a dumb as a brick nation.
why the US isn’t just a dumb as a brick nation
The US isn’t just a dumb as a brick nation. We’re immersed in historic and environmental factors that are engineered to segregate who has access to intellectual capital and who is tracked into jobs that discourage free thinking.
Yeah people don’t realize IQ is relative to education. If you cut education you get dumber people on average.
Breaking News….America makes you dumb
Manga authors “write that down write that down!”
Manhwa*
'My twin Sister from another country couldn’t be this dumb???!"
The article is trash, especially with the added stock photos. Use the source link instead
This website’s use of stock images and gifs were aggravating. The actual case study was worth the read, but only covers a single pair of individuals: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886922001477
It’s certainly interesting. I’m particularly curious about the effects of the multiple confusions:
US had three concussions as an adult, caused by car accidents and from falling on ice. The most recent and severe incident occurred in January 2018, resulting in classic symptoms of light sensitivity and concentration difficulty. US feels she is a “different person,” with increased anger and anxiety. She requires additional time to process information in some problem-solving situations, although she has always seen herself as a poor test taker.
Some of the conclusions seemed a stretch for a single sample. I’m much more curious about more extensive studies with many more subjects.
Gotta say as someone who experienced traumatic brain injury I also feel like I’m a different person, and not as bright as I used to be. The doctors estimate I lost somewhere on the order of 15-20% of whatever that was.
Exactly, there’s a lot of different factors that can affect cognition.
Look at what Americans consume. There’s your answer.
yeah, totally not the concussions.
And eating over 50 years of toxic waste and massive amounts of sugars and fats has zero effect or course.
With america being the shitshow that it is I am not surprised
I do hope she could move back and get the support of the family in South Korea because she shouldn’t have to live in that sithole anymore
