Hmm, I think this logic kinda fails because if astronauts are “not on earth”, then neither are air travelers.
Astronauts orbiting earth are just couple kilometers higher altitude
We already have a definition for this, the Karman line.
When I jump, I am not in earth.
No, you’re over Earth.
Unless you define “on earth” to be "below the Kármán line. The Earth’s atmosphere is probably to be considered part of the planet, else gas planet like Jupiter get difficult to talk about consistently. Atmospheres don’t have a proper “cutoff”, they just get thinner and thinner until they gradually become insignificant, so some cutoff is going to have to be arbitrarily defined to make the distinction useful.
Karman line could be a good limit sure, but I think the orbit still kinda makes sense to include “on the planet”.
Say for example if the apartheid baby gets his Mars colony thing going, from Earth’s perspective it wouldn’t make much difference if a person is standing on Mars surface or on the orbit - we could say that the person is on Mars.
i’d say being in orbit is arguably the least on a planet can be, since an orbit is specifically continuing to miss falling onto the planet.
They would be in Mars orbit, but not planetside. “At Mars” might be a middle ground designator.
Let’s make some artificial rule like you need to be not on earth for 48 hours to be not on earth or something …
Can be at rest in your own reference frame without falling to earth?
Can I define my reference frame any way I want? Because if so, yes. And also no
From your own reference frame, wouldn’t earth be falling to you? Because then this’d apply to everyone, always.
I think better would be to include Earth’s orbit as “on Earth”. This makes sense even if we expand our scope of operations to other planets
The Moon is not on Earth.
The moon and earth are “on” a shared center of gravity. It just so happens to be inside to earth, so meh, we win.
Spent a moment thinking about this and I think there’s an implied definition for what “on earth” means that we intuitively accept but don’t ever really need to state.
If your projected free-fall trajectory both forward and backward in time intersects with the surface of the earth then you are “on earth”.
Standing on the ground? Intersects twice. Thrown rock? Intersects twice. Person in an airplane? Intersects twice. ISS? No intersection. Incoming impact meteor? One intersection.
The ISS was launched from Earth, in pieces but still it’s of Earth origin, and will eventually fall back to Earth. It’s inside the Earth’s atmosphere and experiences drag. It’s orbit has to be adjusted and maintained.
Yes, that’s all true, but none of that describes its free-fall trajectory. Drag causes it to deviate from free-fall very slightly, and it definitely wasn’t in free-fall when the pieces were launched from Earth
I mean 30,000 feet is 9km. The Kármán line is 100km. The ISS is at an average altitude of 400km.
It’s a bit like saying people in planes don’t count as flying because then people on trampolines should count.
Also people who live in a basement, or cave, or underground complex of some kind, or who are currently caving, … they also aren’t ‘on’ Earth, they’re ‘in the Earth’, … and people currently in submersibles, under the water line, well they’re not on the surface, they’re in or under the ocean or w/e, by this grammatical level of pedantry.
Are you saying that people jumping ARE on earth? Because I disagree.
Are there enough trampolines on earth that we could reasonably expect that at any time there is at least one person in the upper part of their jump on a trampoline?
They’re clearly not “jumping” they’re pushing the earth away
That’s relatively true
How do they know there wasn’t someone jumping at ever second of every day somewhere on earth up til then? Also people in airplanes.
This must be a glitch someone’s tweet from a different timeline went through ours.
Long term occupancy of the ISS started in November 2nd, 2000. Since then there has always been at least one person Manning the ISS.
So at least one human has not been on earth for every day since then, thus, all of humanity was last on earth on November 1st 2000. The statement is factually correct.
2012 is still pending just waiting for us all to be gathered up so as to not have any loose ends.
Well, technically speaking, we all are in space.
We are all passengers on a generational space vessel.
We need a better navigator, though. We keep going around in circles.
The Sun isn’t stationary 😉
but it also goes around in circles, or maybe it’s more of a spiral
The Milky Way isn’t stationary 😉
another circle maybe? does anyone really know?
The Milky Way is in a sort of orbit around the center of the Local Group which is the name for the local group of galaxies. It’s not a clean circular orbit and it’s not possible to calculate the rotation time, because the pull from other galaxies is stronger than their collective centre of point of gravity, but sure, it rotates overall on that scale too.
The next levels are different. The Local Group is part of a larger supercluster of galaxies that do not seem to rotate. It’s more like flows of galaxy clusters. Depending on the point and scale we look at, it may be shrinking or expanding. Perhaps there is some rotation to it, but the scale of both distance and time is so incredibly large that it’s meaningless.
Nobody said anything about writing on it.
Are we technically a space fairing civilization?
unfortunately i feel you can’t call yourself spacefaring unless you actually control the ship, and we have about as much control over our trajectory as a mosquito has control over the amount of blood inside a blue whale
Not true if you take into account all the kids jumping at any given moment.
Holy shit.
I’ve never been alive in a time when every human has been on Earth. That’s crazy to think about…
If you like pedantry, people have definitely flown in vehicles and even jumped.
I like pedantry but want to go the other way. The ISS orbits in the thermosphere, still inside Earth’s atmosphere. I say that you haven’t really left Earth until you exit the atmosphere.
i mean, even those guys who went to the moon still stayed within a very close proximity to the earth compared to the size of the solar system
only when people travel to mars they will really have left the earth
The Moon is basically Earth territory. You can’t go to Hawaii and claim you left the US.
What’s wrong with the karman line?
So basically, the Karman line is the theoretical highest point that an airplane can fly, or at least it was when it was calculated. If it were recalculated today it would be higher because of technological advancement. The definition used by the agencies that define it as the edge of space set an altitude near the originally calculated line. The functional difference between being above the line and below the line is that the keplar force will keep an object above the line from falling to Earth within 24 hours while drag will slow the object below the line enough for it to fall back to Earth within 24 hours. It’s fine as a functional definition but I see no reason that it should be universally applied. In the scope of this discussion why should we consider something that will fall back to Earth in 25 hours not be on Earth but something that will fall back to Earth in 23 hours to be on Earth?
That’s highly pedantic, you need to draw the line somewhere. At 120 km you get long-ish sustainable orbits, at 80 km objects decay within a single orbit. The ISS sits at around 420 km, well above that
Btw, the airplane limit calculated by von Kármán was closer to 80 km, the 100 km limit is not based on his calculations.
I had lived in exactly 2 days in my life time in which every human was on earth.
Being born after 2000 should be illegal
They’re old enough to have finished a master’s degree
That is so crazy don’t say that
As a fellow old person, former millennial, I agree.
finally someone said it, thank you
zygote.
I’M FREAKING 24!!!
I have… and by way longer than I want to admit.
Saaame
Get off my lawn.
;n;
This planet ain’t big enough for the two of us.
The loser has to go to space.
Deal
Oh no I’ll ‘accidentally’ lose and finally be free from this world.
What about Bogdan, who was catapulted into space in 1377 in a freak trebuchet accident which was never recorded?
that would be the first time not all of humanity was on earth
You mean you don’t think he’s still out there?
no, he was found by aliens and respectfully returned in 1792
This is kind of mind blowing.
It’s the year 3250. Two harsh desert planets are in a bitter dispute over mineral and water mining rights over the asteroid belt. The Mars coalition insists that Earth may lay claim only to those rocky bodies that fall past her orbit. Earth insists that anything beyond their respective atmospheres is fair game. They use loaded language and plan to argue that an ‘atmosphere’ is one that sustains life, meaning she plans to mine uninhabited stretches or Martian soil too. There is serious debate on Earth of the inhabitants of Mars are even human anymore, cross breeding has become exceptionally difficult. Martians have a lower natural fertility rate and often need IVF to reproduce. Earth gravity is too strong for martians to safely return to the home planet, and so few Earthlings have ever seen one in person.
The dispute, unresolved, leads to the second interplanetary war. A billion people will die on both planets. Mars will lose precious irreplaceable atmosphere. Earth will lose access to much needed water. The conflict only ends when neither can keep up the fight any longer.
gotta keep someone up there to watch space just in case it gets the wrong idea
Well, someone needs to keep the lights on in the ISS…
must have been a pretty scary halloween that year
Space is a priority so we can ignore climate change. Rockets put our many many plane flights worth of pollution, elon musk has done over 30,000 of them (mostly for StarLink). Quite a few ended up just dumping raw pollution and parts into the ocean.
No price is paid but by the environment.
Space is a priority so we can ignore climate change.
I have a teacher that once said that even if we nuked the entire planet and gave 100 years to terraform Mars. Mars would still be less habitable than Earth. Colonization of space in the near future is a pipedream.
Rockets are launched so infrequently that their effect is negligible compared to other sources of pollution. They’re definitely still a problem (debris falling on populated areas is a concern), but the aviation industry burns a rocket launch worth of fuel a few times per minute.
263 rockets in 2024 alone. A 747 carries 10 tonnes of fuel to burn, a rocket carries 1,500 tonnes of fuel to burn.
Seems like they’re both bad, but rockets don’t have as much of a point to them.
It’s Tim Curry in the only place safe from Capitalism.
By 2030, everyone will most likely be back on Earth again when the ISS gets decommissioned :(
Well, maybe sooner than 2030… https://spacenews.com/musk-calls-for-deorbiting-iss-as-soon-as-possible/
i agree with him, provided we de-orbit it onto his skull
Let’s hope that Musk has nothing to say in that when it is time
China will still have an operational station. Probably.
Cool! I had no idea that Tiangong space station was a thing.
China has their own ISS.
Wouldn’t that . . . not be an ISS?
You see, you just take out the ‘I’, and… oh.
i believe the USA is working on that right now actually
The CSS then. They just have a problem aligning it.
Pssh, those are only the humans we know of.
It’s said, that life here began out there…
