I know that this is of only tangential relevance to the OP but I think that it could be safely said that “transgenderism” is boring and irrelevant to everybody except for a tiny sliver of the population : Those who love it and those who hate it. And these people seem to talk a lot.
“Harry Potter wealth”. That is hilarious.
It’s this actually new? Wasn’t it already known that she did that?
I mean to be fair, if she’s going to make hating LGBT people her whole personality, we might as well make sure to keep mentioning how ACTIVE she is in her hate.
It would be one thing if she had just said some nasty shit a decade ago, but this goofy lady wakes up and chooses violence every god damned day.
That’s the thing. I basically already assumed she more or less financed multiple terf organizations all by herself
Her twitter is mostly about trans people instead of HP too. She could have just kept quiet and kept having her PR team sweep all the transphobic tweets she was liking under the rug like they did early on before she went full mask off. But no, she wants to get rid of all the queer people and is actively working to try to make that happen.
Last time she talked about Harry Potter on Twitter, she told everyone that wizards just used to shit themselves until someone invented the toilet.
J.K. Rowling is using her wealth attained from the Harry Potter series to create an organization dedicated to removing transgender people’s rights "in the workplace, in public life, and in protected female spaces.”
I need some help with this topic.
I never got into Harry Potter; I watched some of the older films, but I’ve never read the books. I was born in ‘83, so it never hit me like the folks in my younger brother’s and little cousins’ generation. I only knew of Rowling’s statements about trans people over the years tangentially and largely dismissed it as background noise. I assumed that she considers herself a TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist), as opposed to a TIRF (trans-inclusive radical feminist).
On the assumption that I’m correct about her position, what is the true essence of the disagreement between TERFs and TIRFs?
Is it that the presence of the Y chromosome in male-to-female trans people inherently adds a fundamental “maleness” that “true feminists” must inherently oppose due to the overt and implied threats to women that “maleness” represents?
Is it simply a feminist version of a “No True Scotsman” fallacy or an “Appeal to Nature” fallacy?
Maybe both?
TIRFs are not opposed to maleness. TERFism is a conservative psy-op that started when Mary Daly (who wrote magical divine goddess mother bullshit) and Janice Raymond (who accidentally kicked off trans studies by outing and harassing a trans woman named Sandy Stone - The Transexual Empire leading to Stone’s The Empire Strikes Back)
TIRFism recognizes that there is an axis of oppression that lies at the roots of imposed sex roles. The vast majority of women over history have been unarguably subject to men. Many women live in systems which are focused on controlling their sexuality, and are often barred and restricted from certain activities - due to both explicit and encultured messages.
The ideal TIRF society eliminates gender as a restriction. If anyone had actually read Andrea Dworkin, instead of taking Rush Limbaugh’s pastiche of her work at face value, they would find the TIRF society is one where gender is essentially just self expression. If we got rid of “man” or “woman” - maybe girls in Afghanistan would be able to go to school, or maybe sex wouldn’t be understood as a defilement of women (which I think is deeply connected to the problem of rape - rape is less an act of sexual desire and more a desire for subjugation that is tied to sexual power through this messaging that we desire to eliminate.)
The project of the TIRF is ultimately that the only way to truly end sexism would be to understand all humans as fundamentally ambiguous, to not hold anyone to any kind of sex role.
This is the fundamental irony behind the TERF movement. Rather than reject the gender and sex binary, they reify and enforce it. Daly was a wacky Catholic theologian who turned God into a mom, and decided that women were just special magical spiritual beings. This devotion to some kind of divine womanhood is common among the lesbian separatist types (it’s really disturbing seeing that space have the same deranged arguments of the 70’s…)
The problem is that TERFs are just not feminists. If Rowling cared about women, she wouldn’t be finding these women who realize that they can get their 15 minutes by intentionally throwing a boxing or fencing match. TERFs gleefully team up with the same groups that attack women’s reproductive health care - which I view as the most critical feminist issue at the moment (along the world wide surges in fascistic ideologies - which do tend to be expressions of a threatened male gender role, attempting to reassert those boundaries. The goddamn President is a serial rapist.)
That’s probably confusing and elaborate, there’s a lot of theory behind what I’m saying. I’m happy to answer or clarify, I think a critical part of countering this shit is to stop letting Rowling and the alt right redefine the term feminist.
I have to admit, I had to re-read your response several times to comprehend your points properly.
No slight intended to you; this subject has always been difficult for me to parse correctly and, in turn, respond with any thoughtful or logical relevance. My expression of thought tends to be more clumsy than I would like to admit.
After some consideration of your reply, I think the answer to my question is that TERF position suffers from both of the fallacies I listed in my original supposition, and probably many more that I’m not recalling or aware of.
Considering your two following statements:
TIRFs are not opposed to maleness.
and…
Daly was a wacky Catholic theologian who turned God into a mom, and decided that women were just special magical spiritual beings. This devotion to some kind of divine womanhood is common among the lesbian separatist types
…would it be safe to conclude that TERFs do (in a way) oppose the “maleness” of the Y chromosome as an affront to the purity of their “feminity”? I know I’m repeating my question, but their ethos reminded me of the “single-drop-of blood” policies on ethnic identity from the segregationists of the American South.
It’s certainly an absurdity, and many times a dark one at that, observing upon what proverbial hills people choose to die on publicly these days.
I wonder: does she admit to identifying with or publicly support the Tories, Nigel Farage and/or other “Brexiteers”, or other conservative personalities and politicians within the UK? Generally speaking, I refuse to use the “Alt-Right” label, as contend that there’s nothing “alternative” to naked authoritarian conservatism about it.
I suppose I should just look it up, but I thought I’d ask.
her books do allude thier her transphobia, and a little anti-semitism quite a bit, its low key.
The opposite of a TERF is a Non Exclusive Radical Feminist, because it’s NERF or nothing
TERFs can also be called Feminism-Appropriating Radical Transphobes, or FART
terfs also love to collab with nazis too.
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I heard a YouTuber refer to her as Jeepers Kreepers Rowling recently, and it makes me giggle. What an awful woman.
I’m partial to Joule Kelvin Rowling, myself.
Boycotts work! Don’t watch her show on HBO and cancel your subscription after The Last of Us season finale of course. If her brand becomes toxic nobody will fund projects around it and she will fade into obscurity.
I didn’t subscribe to HBO when Game of Thrones was airing, I’m not about to start now.
To many people care more about their immediate shiny than any lasting harm their actions do in the world.
Just look at how quickly the Nintendo Switch 2 sold out preorders, despite explicitly telling customers they won’t even own the device, and thus nintendo can fucking brick the thing whenever they want.
Don’t watch anything of hers on anything, like she’ll still be getting royalties for films.
Can’t she just take up knitting or photography or racing driving?
No because we all keep talking about her.
No, because she’s still traumatized by the thought that Corbyn could have won, and could have raised her taxes.
“You hurt a community the most by going after their most vulnerable.”
I’d prefer she take up parachuteless BASE diving, personally.
Appreciated, I just don’t get why people choose hate as a hobby when there are much better options.
Is that Titanic sub company still in business?
but we are still not ok with bashing the fans/consumer that gave her the money despite the stories being flatter than brothers grim wiping their ass? i really think harry potter fans are the problem.
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It’s one thing to still support someone despite them having some problematic opinions on the side. I do it, you probably do it, it annoys the shit out of me to know that this thing that I like is made by someone who shares opinion with which I strongly disagree with, sometimes that are even against me, personally, as a trans person.
But not understanding something, being ignorant and being kind of an asshole about it, is very different than what this hateful bitch is doing. She has dedicated her entire life to make people like me fucking miserable. And it’s working!
I’m having a very hard time reconciling the fact that lots of people love Harry Potter and some people in my entourage are the same and they will support and pay for stuff made by this horrendous person regardless because this universe means that much to them. My sister is like that. I’m having a very hard time with that. I don’t want to be that person… but fuck this hurts.
The worst part is that most people don’t know about it. Most people don’t know how much of a hateful, awful person J.K. Rowling is. And I have to admit, those people in my life, I’m genuinely afraid of telling them. Because I know that there is a chance that I’ll tell them everything, and that in the end, they won’t change a thing. Because my rights as a human being matters less to them. And I don’t want to find that out…
I hate everything about this.
It is important to separate art and artist.
People get a lot of comfort out of religious text knowing next to nothing about the author(s).
This also means you can hate on JK Rowling without making any connection to HP.
No. I’m so tired of this. You can like the IP but you can’t spend a single dime on it without funding transphobia. That’s what we are talking about here.
Edit: The IP also should just die. Its popularity fuels hateful policies and attitudes against my existence.
Edit: This comment on it says it succinctly: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/26719393/14648789
If you are going down that road then there are much big targets to aim at. Are you also applying the same anger (and logic) to organised religion?
The same arguments apply and they are multiple times more powerful than Rowling.
Yeah okay, you are not being genuine. That much is clear now. This is a post about J. K. Rowling using profits from her IP to fund transphobia. People run in to defend the franchise, we try to explain how giving her money means more policies against us is bad, and then you object to that?
Ofc we are talking about HP in the HP post. Why would I talk about religion here? She gave a significant meaningful amount of money to fund hate against me, and she continues to be influential and use her and her IPs popularity to make peoples lives harder.
Why do you think I don’t speak up against any church or organization funding hate and bigotry? You are not being genuine.
giving her money means more policies against us is bad, and then you object to that?
No, you went further and are hating on people liking HP. You are attacking the art not the artist. I am defending art in general. I am not defending Rowling at all or encouraging funding for her. Everyone should pirate anything HP related.
Why would I talk about religion here?
Because you are confusing the art and the artist. That precedent should not be allowed no matter the topic. (By equating religion to art I can make my point quicker. Note I’m not choosing any religion in particular)
Why do you think I don’t speak up against any church or organization funding hate and bigotry?
Do you also try to stop people from believing in that religion? From reading those religious books? No. The art is separate.
You are not being genuine.
I’m highlighting how art and artist are separate. No-one should feel guilty about enjoying a fictional book.
No, you went further and are hating on people liking HP.
Where did that happen?
The IP also should just die.
First, let me start with saying I am sorry. Currently, the world seems very preoccupied with cocks and vagina’s and who should have what. (Kinda weird, but yeah).
I love Harry Potter. It was the first series of books that really resonated with me. It is really sad to see that someone, who came from nothing and gained it all. Could live the dream, have all the money and affection, is such a massive cunt.
Yet somehow, it doesn’t make me stop loving Harry Potter. When reading the books again, it reminds me of my childhood. Me reading at 2:00 in the morning underneath the blankets with a pocket light in me mouth to not let anyone know I am not sleeping. Daydreaming about such a world where magic exist.
The solution, I am afraid, is something I cannot provide. Money buys news, news poisons the minds. I stand for humanity, and all humans. No matter which configuration. And if someone wants to have a nice pair of tits and cunt instead of a dick, go on and have your merry life.
…
I don’t know if this is helpful or not. What is your solution?
I don’t know, there’s a lot of racism and anti-Semitism in those books as well. I mean the money obsessed long nose goblins? Cho Chang?
They’re good stories, but they do reflect the work of a fundamentally biggoted author.
In general the entire series is mean-spirited. You can see the roots of Rowling’s hate in how she describes any of the series antagonists.
I’m not trans, but I feel your pain. It sucks, a lot. Why do people have to be so hateful?
Low IQ and a lack of hobbies
I think that you shouldn’t tell people to stop enjoying what they love but to stop buying and funding her campaign.
It is hard to convince people to give up on their interests but it is reasonable to tell them where the money goes.
I myself I am mostly pirating all stuff. I could even help someone pirate it and do it for them. I think they would understand and agree to it. I would add that If they buy something from hp we are not friends/family anymore but if you ask me to pirate it then we could watch it together.
That’s my advice on how to approach this in a reasonable manner and if you need help pirating any hp stuff PM me and I will explain how to set everything up
What a rotten bitch
What a miserable person. More money than God and all she can do is sit around hating people she’s never met.
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Harry Potter defenders: “JK Rowling just said mean words online she hasn’t actually harmed trans people!”
What JK Rowling is doing with the money:
Ok but harry potter “defenders” and jk Rowling defenders are not the same. You can appreciate the world of HP while not agreeing or supporting their shit creator.
yes you can but i will still judge you because it’s a terribly written series
And I can acknowledge that while also having nostalgia for books that I grew up with as a literal child. Judge away.
boo former child
I found it very fun, interesting and captivating when I read those books (that is, when I was maybe 13-16?). If it was “terribly written” it wouldn’t have made the success it did, and also the target audience is generally not made of literary critics.
So I don’t think there is much to judge, especially since many people’s good opinion on the story is based on their lived experience with it, from when they were younger etc. And you can’t erase that from your life because the author turned out to be an asshole 15 years later.
she was an asshole back then and you can see it all over her books. i think i was probably lucky enough to be a bit older than the target demo to find HP even remotely interesting but kids at the time were super generous and kind with the books and interpreted them in good ways that jowling kowling rowling clearly never intended. which is why she retconned diversity into her books for example.
i completely believe in the death of the author, but also won’t stand for praising a shitty author’s shitty books just because people headcanoned a lot of good things into it to make them suck less.
Honestly, I read the books translated + I could not and still cannot relate with the issues that I often see raised against the book (like the way diversity is represented). Especially when I was a kid, those issues were so not in my mind that I would never ever flag as issues.
To make an example: for me as a kid, slavery was something that mostly had to do with the roman empire. The whole debacle about house elves etc. is completely disconnected from real societal probelsm, recent history etc. I have always rooted for the elves because that’s what I was pushed to do emotionally, but without really ever reflecting on slavery as a whole. I am picking this example because it’s one of the most used ones to critique the book.
In general I also believe that authors can build worlds that do not represent their views, I find a lot of the critique I have read a stretch and I am especially suspicious that most of these critiques started appearing recently. I believe people started with the thesis (she is an asshole) and then backtracked the analysis trying to find anything at all in the books that could support the conclusion (rather than viceversa).
Either way, all of this is relatively irrelevant. People can like or dislike books - especially fiction - freely. For me the book is mostly associated with a vibe of being young, thinking about those stories, relating with the characters etc., not with the actual books content. So it’s more about thinking back of childhood/past than appreciating the literary value.
well the critique is not about the world building. i mean the world building is bad too but that’s not about the morality of the world. the critique is about what the books present as good or bad.
there are many examples of this.
body shaming and misogyny/transphobia: bad people are fat, good people are at most “plump”. bad women have mannish features, like big physiques, square jaws and mustaches.
slavery is good, actually: the problem with slavery in the books isn’t that it’s portrayed at all, it’s that it’s portrayed as good for the house elves except for one weirdo freak who wants to be free for some reason. also house elves even as a term is yikes imo.
zero concern for diversity: it’s not that the book just lacks it but the fact that the very few token characters who were put in are just cardboard cutouts with downright disrespectful names. the Asian girl is cho chang because i think the editor may have vetoed the first ch-ch name she came up with. the black guy is called kingsley shacklebolt because “tyrone escapedslave” was too on the nose i guess. the british wizarding school is for some reason more populous than schools that represent much larger populations, and it has a proper name while all others are called “wizard school” or “magic place” very badly translated because she couldn’t be fucked to engage with another culture even on a surface level. she also disrespectfully dismissed some regional beliefs about magic because why not.
good people vs bad people, not good deeds vs bad deeds: you can see throughout the book “good” and “bad” people doing the exact same things but represented as good and bad depending on who’s doing them, not what they’re doing.
status quo above all: challenging systemic problems is never a solution, even slavery, and any change must only involve individuals. whatever you may gather as “challenging authority” for example is always about the people using the authority, and not whether the authority itself should exist at all. the main protagonist becomes a fucking cop at the end. and the books end in literally everything being the same as it started, sans the threat of voldy, and “all is well” despite the same abusive systems, castes and slavery still existing. because status quo is good and systemic change is bad.
it keeps going, and it gets worse if you go beyond the HP books. it’s not what’s in the world, it’s how she presents them.
“If it was “terribly written” it wouldn’t have made the success it did”
Dan Brown’s millions beg to differ.
If people like HP stuff they might want to try Dianna Wynne Jones’ stuff: earlier, better, and didn’t have the same fortunate exposure.
The DaVinci code sold 80 millions copies. The first HP book alone sold 120 millions, and the whole series 600 millions, being the most sold series of books.
Not only they are one order of magnitude apart, but I think they sold for different reasons.
I haven’t read Dan Brown’s stuff, but I also doubt it’s terribly written by the way. Books that capture the interest of a population more and more unused to read can be shallow, banal, inconsistent, whatever, but not terribly written. Casual readers can hardly finish a terribly written book. In any case, HP books are children’s books. Children or teenagers are not literary critics, it’s not about reading “great literature”, however you define that.
I also can’t help to notice the coincidence that all the HP critiques started appearing in the last years, when the author went bananas. A series this popular, which ended in 2007, and suddenly 15 years later people notice that it’s “terribly written”? This smells more to me of a damnatio memoriae than genuine critique.
You haven’t read it, but that’s what you reckon? Okay.
As to the other point: JKR’s stuff is trite and derivative, but I do think that some of its “problematic” aspects are likely just because it’s regurgitating European fantasy tropes, which themselves may (originally or later on) encode antisemitism and so on.
And when it comes to it, subjecting any popular series to close reading with an eye for affront is likely to show up its flaws. Just think of all the janitors who blew up with the death star.
But Brown’s stuff is utter garbage (not to mention just ripping off “the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail”, which was pretty awful to begin with) - if you have the chance to pick it up second-hand I’d encourage you to see if you can finish it.
I actually disagree that a book is “problematic” because it touches, presents, includes etc. any topic that morally we disagree with. Not every book has to be a manifesto or a depiction for a moral and just society, which is why I find most of the arguments against HP to be weak (some points were listed in a sibling comment thread).
subjecting any popular series to close reading with an eye for affront is likely to show up its flaws
I am quite sure this is true for any book (especially fiction), in fact. Which is why I think it’s an activity that makes sense only to justify the pre-existing opinion about the book, rather than having a value in itself.
if you have the chance to pick it up second-hand I’d encourage you to see if you can finish it.
To be clear, I know that Dan Brown stuff is garbage. I just have seen people who I think never read a book in the previous 10 years read that one (in translation though, so who knows…). So the book must at least be interesting and intriguing to keep the attention of people who are not used to read. For me this means not fitting in the “terrible writing” category, but maybe we mean different things by that.
I disagree. Sometimes you can’t separate the art from the artist when they are actively using their wealth and influence to oppress an already marginalized group. Just take a look at what recently happened and is happening to Tesla.
Honestly, having to listen to people babble about Harry Potter just feels like a slap in the face. Like, I know people who have the best intentions in regard to supporting trans people, but they’ll still happily make endless references to this garbage in front of me as though it wouldn’t immediately bring to mind someone who is actively engaged in trying to get others to agree that I shouldn’t exist. Some of them also buy merch that I guarantee puts money directly in her pocket.
It bothers the shit out of me.
I understand why this is so painful, and I really appreciate you sharing how you feel. I grew up with HP, and while it was part of my childhood, I don’t support the author’s views at all. I get why seeing people casually reference the series or buy merchandise can be upsetting when it feels like it’s indirectly supporting someone who actively harms the trans community. That said, I think it’s important for people to be able to talk about the series and its impact on them without automatically being labeled a bigot. Acknowledging the harm the author has caused doesn’t mean we can’t still discuss the cultural impact of the books. People should be more mindful, but I don’t think we should shut down conversations about it entirely. Thanks for sharing your perspective—I’ll keep this in mind moving forward.
The very first comment is all about actively supporting J K Rowling with money, so this is not just about people talking about HP, but funding someone who is actively using their money and influence to harm us.
As others have mentioned publicity and support in general for HP is also bad, as it makes people more likely to buy HP merchandise. New shows, merch, and games are still being produced and sold. We aren’t shitting on HP for fun. We are telling people that this actually really and truly hurts us.
I would never call someone a bigot for talking about Harry Potter. It does absolutely reduce my opinion of them, though. I keep it to myself, but I see it as pretty thoughtless.
No one is. This is an article about how she uses profits from the HP franchise to fund transphobia with people running in to the defend liking the franchise while completely ignoring the context of the post.
Edit: For reference, liking or not liking the franchise isn’t what the post is about, so running in to defend it is gonna be read as supporting funding the franchise.
I grew up watching The Cosby Show. Big part of my childhood etc. I’ll leave you to join the dots.
But by consuming Harry Potter IP, you’re actively putting money in her pocket, which she uses for her anti trans cause. Unless you pirate the content
I pirate all content, I see no reason to discriminate.
There hasn’t been a new Harry Potter book in decades, and Fantastic Beasts basically took cyanide when Crimes of Grindelwald came out, only thing keeping this franchise alive is fanfics
The game was pretty successful financially, although it luckily wasn’t at all able to stay culturally relevant and there is a new hbo show coming out soon that was even promoted by german state media.
Lots of people still watch the movies on streaming. As little as a few weeks ago, my wife suggested we should watch one of the movies. She has no particular contact with the LGBTQ+ society, and didn’t know anything about JK Rowlings behaviour. I’ve had a few colleagues that are gay, but I never had meaningful exposure to the queer community either, until I stumbled into roller derby a decade ago.
So I assume a lot of people watch HP, not of malice, but unknowingly or with indifference to who JK Rowling is as a person
I still have people swearing to me that she “Supports the trans community” and “Donates money to pro-trans causes” and that people are “targetting her unfairly”
Sad thing is, they’re being serious and arguing in what they believe is good faith. They legitimately don’t realize who she is, they’re too smitten by the debunked story of a homeless woman who wrote Harry Potter on old napkins.
Anecdote: As a member of the generation that grew up with HP, no one I know is supporting the IP financially. We grew up with the books and movies and that’s it. This is just one of many cultural issues that’s dividing the left. Cool I guess?
Edit: typos
This is just one of many cultural issues that’s dividing the left. Cool I guess?
We’re pretty united against bigotry. Get with the program or stop dividing the left.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Even the original cast don’t support hp anymore because they aren’t a bunch of assholes and don’t have rocks for brains.
Someone dear to me is heartbroken and perennially conflicted because she absolutely loved Harry Potter growing up, and is also keenly aware of how shitty JK Rowling is. Now as an adult the Harry Potter franchise is one of the things that gives her joy in an otherwise very hard life she has had.
I’m not giving any more details about her. All I’m asking is, give these people a break, please. Not everyone is in a position in life to be an activist on everything, and while it might sound silly, things like HP are a big part of some people’s childhoods and taking those away from them can be devastating.
Wouldn’t it be a shame if the website got DDOS’d, the email account ([email protected]) got spammed to shit and the morally bankrupt legal firm facilitating this also got something coming to their website (see email)
(in a hypothetical way) What if someone send to this JKR email a link to futa hentai with Harry Potter characters.
It’s always the people you most expect.
Aside from hurting Trans people, these things hurt women both those afab or not, and given the numbers of each group they end up hurting way, way, way more cisgender women. So every opportunity, every interview with Rowling, every comment on a tweet to her should be “What happened that made you hate women this much?”.
I mean it’s sad that she can’t love the trans, but if that was just a prrsonal dislike, ok everyone has barely rational likes and dislikes, can’t be helped. But to make that public, and then to go to these lengths, to sacrifice the safety of all women on the altar of that hate and fear, that is truly sick and sickening.
So the question is “JO, WHY DO YOU HATE WOMEN???”
Because because of her hate mongering, women are getting in trouble and often beat up for going to the bathroom, get humiliated by having to “prove” they’re “real” women to pushy agressive bigots. I fully expect one day to lose my job and end up in jail for beating up some such asshole who thinks they should humiliate my wife or daughters that way.
The greatest achievement of gender critical ideology is getting women to voluntarily give men jurisdiction to police their bodies and presentation. To the Rowlings and Parkers, any number of cisgender women hurt by their ideology is worth it in their quest of erasing trans people out of public life.
