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Hang on a minute, equivalents of SpaceX and Starlink could have naturally grown out of NASA, it was the obvious place for them to come from but NASA did not show that innovation and nationalisation of them might dilute their abilities. For clarity I am not suggesting the innovation came from Musk, he has no science or engineering, his talents are grifting, showmanship and taking credit for other people’s work, he is a natural figurehead though and seemed quite clear thinking until he lost his mind.
NASA has had it’s funding cut year after year for decades. It’s far easier to innovate when you have money to back up the r&d and testing.
I wasnt discussing underlying cause, whatever the reason for stifled innovation in some fields possibly evident in NASA it is likely preferable not to pull independent labs into NASA that are having success in these areas.
When’s the last time the US nationalised something?
The automotive manufacturers General Motors and Chrysler were partially nationalized in the wake of the 2008 Financial Crisis as were several banks… these were less a full government takeover and more of a government guided restructuring, but the government owned large stakes in these companies. Before that, the only full nationalization of anything substantial was the bankruptcy of the Penn Central Railroad and subsequent establishment of Consolidated Rail (branded as ConRail) the US’s only national freight rail company.
Conrail was later privatized into what is now the private companies CSX and Norfolk Southern. The collapse of Penn Central was the largest bankruptcy in history until Enron in the 1990’s. Amtrak, our national passenger rail corporation, is also a nationalized entity created around the same time as ConRail, for similar reasons, and is still nationalized (although the Trump admin wants to privatize it).
Didn’t know about Amtrak. Interesting. Thanks
Tiktok?
LOL You can’t nationalise foreign companies.
You can do so to the local subsidiary
Tencent would never allow it.
Besides it’s software, that has no subsidiaries.
If it were cars like BYD or Geely then maybe.
In this case there is nothing to steal.
I’ve been saying this for years. the footprint that spaceX represents in national launch authority is out of whack to say the least.
The only reason SpaceX exists is because Boeing and Lockheed managed to compete so badly the only solution was to merge their launch businesses.
So we had one launch company, then spaceX made it two providers, now its back to one because B-mart is using antiquated launch systems (single use).
The only reason SpaceX exists is because Boeing and Lockheed managed to compete so badly the only solution was to merge their launch businesses.
To compete even worse
this isn’t incorrect. ULA is a fucking pork barrel of hideous proportions. doesn’t mean we shouldn’t nationalize spacex.
You don’t nationalise a company (SpaceX) just because the existing government owned company (NASA) is significantly worse. What do you think would happen to SpaceX if they did nationalise it? Lol. It would go to hell, like NASA.
The government should not be responsible for things like this. The government should provide services for necessities for human rights and general standards of living, but they shouldn’t take over successful companies just because they couldn’t do it themselves.
We shot a space telescope half way to the sun and are observing the dawn of the entire universe.
And you just wanna see a bigger penis rocket🌈
Sending something one way into space isn’t hard. Having it come back is. Having it, and all the parts that it took to get it there and back, be safely returned to earth and able to be reused is stupidly hard.
Like I said, I value the space telescopes more than the Rockets that take them into space. I like the Mars Rovers more than the penis rockets.
Oh, I know, man I’ve been following the SpaceX project for the last 12 years. I’m a huge fan of outer space. But now that they’re slashing my science budgets for weapons budgets it makes me sad. And a bit mad.
NASA was pretty damn efficient with the budget they used to have.
The wasteful NASA storyline is tiresome and busted.
And why do you think they have zero budget? The government lol. You think if the same government takes over SpaceX they’ll all of a sudden give them the huge budget that they need?
And the international customers, what about them? The ground stations, POPs, and terminals in other countries, hmmmm?
SpaceX’s largest customer is the US government; once that relationship has been repaired I’m ambivalent about private/public ownership.
HMmmmM?
because let’s be honest, without tons of US GOV’T SUPPORT, SpaceX wouldn’t have ever been able to provide all those POPs, terminals and services. Funny thing that.
Dude… nationalize just means the US takes ownership of the company. They keep all the employees they keep all the customers. It runs like normal under new ownership. The taxpayers now own it. it’s a great idea.
You see too long we have been using public funding and allowing rich people to privatize the gains. It’s time to privatize those games and take back what we invested in as US citizens. We will still offer you eurocucks Internet since apparently it is more important than having a moral fiber in your body
I didn’t say it was a bad thing, I wanted to know about some of the broader implications, e.g. govt ownership doesn’t remove legal obligations. I doubt the govt could continue to offer service under the previous T&C, some sections would need revision. And Starlink’s T&C are slightly different in some countries, as are the operating conditions. Some countries who are nominally friendly with Starlink/SpaceX to allow ground stations, POPs, etc, might not be so keen on the US govt controlling things.
These are just some of the things that popped into my head when I read the article.
Usually the US government would take over an important business, replace the leadership, stabilize the business and return it to the public sector.
Elon was tampering with connections in Ukraine during live combat. I’m surprised anyone would trust or want to support one of his businesses. He should’ve been thrown in a black site after that incident.
Quite ironic from people constantly accusing their political adversaries to be communists…
Yeah I mean the tax payers have literally already paid for all of both SpaceX and Starlink. The public paid for it, the public should own it.
They’re just following in the footsteps of Comcast. The FCC gave SpaceX/Starlink $885.5 million to provide rural broadband after they gave Comcast over $1 billion less than 5 years ago to do the same thing. Starlink actually works out there from what I understand, so I guess that’s something.
Throw Musk in prison for his many documented crimes, but don’t support this kind of dictator shit.
Don’t give bail-outs to billionaires.
I think that’s a complicated question. It’s both yes and no. Yes, we should nationalize them. No, nationalizing them should not be by tRump. That sets the precedent, or at least reinforces, the concept that the architecture of industry can be nationalized as payback for petty political squabbling. They should be nationalized, however, because fElon has proven himself to be unstable, reckless, petty, and a risk to the nation.
remember the halcyon days when NASA could do something and the president might not like it, but they were all FUCKING ADULTS and the grift was well distributed amongst the congresscreatures, so it never devolved into adolescent twitter whining?
goddamn those were better than whatever this shit is
If not Musk should be forced from his roles in these companies. You cannot be a defense contractor and do ketamine.
how can you trust a board that trusts such incompetence, for DOD projects no less?
failure up and down.
That would literally be the worse thing that could happen with regards to them, because they only exist and thrived because they are private enterprise. If the government were capable of doing what those companies do and doing it well, SpaceX and Starlink wouldn’t exist in the first place.
Can you even imagine just how much money would be wasted and misused and unaccounted for, while nothing actually got done?
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is delusional
Again someone who thinks that public policies are natural laws…
NASA could do and did do what SpaceX is doing now, but they are beholden to the government and if the government says “we don’t do that for ideologigal reasons” then it doesn’t matter what can be done.
Ideological reasons? You think nasa hasn’t made reusable self landing rockets and boosters because of ideological reasons?
Please. They only exist because of government funding. If NASA had as many rockets explode as SpaceX has, people like you would be screaming about the waste of taxpayer dollars.
Also, it’s only a matter of time before starlink satellites crash into each other and start a chain reaction. You can kiss space travel goodbye after that.
If NASA had as many rockets explode as SpaceX has, people like you would be screaming about the waste of taxpayer dollars.
The point of the launches that have ended in explosion were to test various parts of the systems and hardware, and to learn if/when a “disaster” does happen. That’s how you improve things, make them better and safer. Would you prefer when we finally send people to the moon or to Mars that it’s the first time we’ve launched that rocket? Those explosions weren’t bad things.
Are you for real? Can you guess how many Saturn V rockets ended up exploding throughout the first mission to put man on the moon? Trick question, the answer was ZERO.
The Saturn V program had completed more successful milestones in 1 year than SpaceX has managed in 5 year.
SpaceX has been late on every single deliverable to NASA. They were supposed to show they can reliably perform the propellant transfer for the NASA contract, and instead Musk focused on testing the deployment of starlink satellites, which of course failed. And now they lost one more on the pad getting fueled up.
It’s complete incompetence, which is the one thing Musk can guarantee
How many of those Saturn V rockets landed themselves back on the launch pad?
NASAs milestones were not the same as, nor anywhere near as hard as, SpaceX’s.
Your incompetence line shows you’re not capable of being impartial in this so there’s no real point continuing. You’re saying the guy responsible for the EV market we have no, the almost fully self driving cars we have now, the satellite internet network we have now, and the reusable spaceship booster rockets we have now is “incompetent”. You’re not here to actually have a discussion.
isn’t it amazing how much private companies can do when given hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars from the federal teat?
wow. that private enterprise just rocketing up out of the atmosphere by yanking on it’s bootstraps so hard.
just, you know, after a few more hundred million, burp. ahem. just a few more.
And isn’t it amazing how little government entities can do despite being given the same or more taxpayer dollars from the federal teat?
Private enterprise gets shit done because if they don’t they go out of business and people lose their jobs, money, and livelihood. Government departments don’t get shit done because they’ll all keep their jobs and their pensions and their benefits no matter what. Again - NASA vs SpaceX.
have a government run space agency
a private company shows up
does everything better at a fraction of the cost and actually innovates
commies on lemmy: We Should Immediately Nationalize SpaceX and Starlink
Have a government run space agency, government constantly cuts funding. Awards contracts to incompetent military company to build over priced rocket. Crony capitalism and money disappears.
Private guy steals all NASA talent from budget cuts builds talented team, innovates new technologies for rockets and then goes full blown Nazi and you love him even more.
Great judgement cal here chief. You’re worse than the commies
You’re conflating Musk with his companies. He might be the one who founded them, but these companies run themselves. This goes for Tesla, SpaceX, and Starlink. The leadership, research, production, and management are all handled by company employees.
But that’s besides the point, regardless of how you feel about Musk himself, there’s clearly a place for private companies in this area. NASA and other space agencies are not businesses, they’re research agencies. Their job is to expand scientific knowledge and innovate new technology. They can’t run a service like SpaceX, which btw doesn’t only serve the government by also other governments and the private sector. It’s better for them to just outsource shuttle launches entirely to the private sector which is why they’ve been doing it for decades. It just so happens that SpaceX provides this service at really good price reliably and safely, which makes them the best choice. It’s symbiotic relationship. It’s an ecosystem where one sector compliments the other.
Idk why everyone keeps talking like nationalizing Elon musk companies means changing them? It’s just removing Elon musk from them, and then reordering them to the public.
Also hello cyber truck called and that was Elon musk at the helm. He’s good for making good teams and bad decisions
I mean companies can force him out by themselves if they’re pressured enough. Also all companies make unsuccessful business bets. What matters is that from a neutral third person point of view, these companies aren’t doing anything that they’re not supposed to be doing. They’re putting sectors of the American economy in danger of collapse, they’re not committing crimes left and right, and their services are satisfactory for most people.
He can’t be forced out of his private companies lol. And the Tesla BoD is all his family and filthy rich crony’s. No one’s ousting him from Tesla, next question please.
Starlink should be globalized. A planet only needs one low-altitude orbiting communications network. Better to standardize the technology and platform and let them contribute to one system than to have a dozen identical competing systems crashing into each other and fucking things up for everyone.
There is no such thing as something being “globalized” The UN for instance is a debating club where the majority of the seats represent individual dictators who dominate but do not speak for their countries citizens.
The idea of 50 countries collectively providing 0% of the funds should determine the mission is somewhat laughable. Also no country on earth has a process by which foreign dictators can seize or direct a company run out of their nation.
Ah. My Kessler syndrome is acting up again.
One way to get businesses to move their factories back to the US due to tarrifs: Start nationalizing them.
/s
Yeah, let’s give the trump administration the power to seize companies it doesn’t like, that is a great idea that def won’t be abused all the time
Congress has always had this power. I’m personally for nationalizing telecomm companies.
The problem would be that nationalising them in this day and age would mean prices would get even worse for everyone, as the government having a monopoly on these things would mean they can charge whatever they want, and with the amount of debt and deficit they have, they’d charge a lot.
As we all know, private corporations don’t charge whatever they want, and don’t jack up the prices because of a “Fuck you, why not?” fee and bill.
