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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Cambridge researchers urge public health bodies like the NHS to provide trustworthy, research-driven alternatives to platforms driven by profit.
Women deserve better than to have their menstrual tracking data treated as consumer data - Prof Gina Neff
Smartphone apps that track menstrual cycles are a “gold mine” for consumer profiling, collecting information on everything from exercise, diet and medication to sexual preferences, hormone levels and contraception use.
This is according to a new report from the University of Cambridge’s Minderoo Centre for Technology and Democracy, which argues that the financial worth of this data is “vastly underestimated” by users who supply profit-driven companies with highly intimate details in a market lacking in regulation.
The report’s authors caution that cycle tracking app (CTA) data in the wrong hands could result in risks to job prospects, workplace monitoring, health insurance discrimination and cyberstalking – and limit access to abortion.
They call for better governance of the booming ‘femtech’ industry to protect users when their data is sold at scale, arguing that apps must provide clear consent options rather than all-or-nothing data collection, and urge public health bodies to launch alternatives to commercial CTAs.
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For christ sake, is there no open source option for such a simple task?
Edit:
2 people here could point to drip within 15 minutes of my post, and a third to the fact there are options on F-droid. So why the fuck don’t women just use that?
Well i guess the ones with harmful advertising have better graphics or somemeting. Or the fact they allow advertising makes them more visible on google play. And you probably can’t even get drip on iPhones.So why the fuck don’t women just use that?
They probably don’t know about it. If I search “period tracker” on Google Play, Drip is in about 40th place in the results. That’s several screens down, past a bunch of search suggestions, and the parts where it’s open source, on-device, and optionally encrypted aren’t clear until I tap on it and read the description.
And you probably can’t even get drip on iPhones.
There’s some irony in a comment dealing with people making decisions that are against their interests because they’re insufficiently informed speculating incorrectly about something like this when it’s easy to check. Drip is, in fact available for iPhone.
The fact that I got 3 responses that stated it is available on F-droid made me think that. F-droid does not have anything iPhone, because you can’t side-load on iPhone.
Yeah, discoverability is a massive issue on the Play store. If it doesn’t bring Daddy Google 30% of whatever they shovel through in ad money or mtx, then you won’t see it.
I’m not sure what the best answer to that is. I don’t think it’s forcing Google to improve its search results.
I want it to be the average person gaining a baseline level of computer and media literacy such that they seek out and find apps that cannot send sensitive data to third parties without the user’s clear intent, but I don’t think we’ll ever get there.
It is improving search result, with filters. Ads, tracking, data deletion possibility, in-app purchases, license, etc…
At least some of these are already tracked.
Unfortunately I think the age of computer literacy came and went. Phones don’t even seem to want you to know that a file is a thing.
Personal responsibility only gets you so far when the big money actively fights against it. I think the answer lies in both holding companies like Google to higher standards as well as improving access to the knowledge we need to navigate what the world has become. It doesn’t help anybody when the FBI has recommended people use an ad blocker for over a decade but nobody has ever heard them say it.
There is! It’s called drip and is a project started by a berlin-based feminist collective iirc.
Free, open-source, local data only
Thank you! Had no idea this existed
Also trans inclusive which has the double benefit of not being the cliché pink. :)
Because its effort. We have to get the average person to care about their security and privacy before they will bother using these alternatives. It’s much easier for them to download a popular one off an app store and have the data stick with them, than it is to download f-droid, find the right app, make sure its still supported and setup their own data backup.
People are mentioning drip, and that’s on the Play Store. It’s literally the same amount of effort as installing a surveillance app.
Does drip pay to have their app at the top of the list? Because that’s about how far most people look
People are not researching privacy conscious apps and typing it in. Drip isn’t even remotely close to being among the top results for a period tracker. That’s the point, the average person prefers convenience over privacy these days.
To be honest, the backing up is not trivial for most.
Even for me, while the technical aspect is no problem, the mental burden of thinking to do the backup and then the few minutes it takes to do the backup. Not a problem for a local only FOSS app but its quite a task to keep track of 10+ apps with different backup/export options, backup-passwords and so on. I use a ToDo-App with recurring tasks but still
People don’t give a shit, and prefer to stay uninformed. Maybe more Darwin awards are necessary?
Edit: Maybe that was out of line, but I’m just so fucking tired of people who choose to be ignorant.
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I admit that was out of line, but for fucks sake, there are so many stupid people doing stupid things it’s unbearable. Voting for Trump for example. And the Russian people supporting the war on Ukraine.
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I bet if I looked at your smart phone or computer I would see plenty of services you use that compromise your privacy.
I bet you won’t.
Edit:
This is about advertising, and I have zero advertising on both my phone and desktop computer.
But thanks for downvoting my response based on actual knowledge of my own systems. While up-voting an idiotic completely unsubstantiated claim.
People here a weird sometimes!?
Because they don’t care. Even if it leads to potential abortion legal charges.
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I admit that was out of line, but for fucks sake, there are so many stupid people doing stupid things it’s unbearable. Voting for Trump for example. And the Russian people supporting the war on Ukraine.
I’m just so fucking tired of how ignorant people choose to be.deleted by creator
I know people can read it if they want. I don’t see what it is to you.
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i’d like to point out that it shouldn’t be on women (or anyone) to be on constant guard against attacks on their privacy.
yes, it is the state of the world, but the attitude of your comment is victim blaming.
let’s not forget that while we on Lemmy may be aware of the danger of mass surveillance tech, we’re not the majority.
snowden told us years ago how fucked everything is, and surveillance has only grown since then. let’s not forget that it is not normal that corpo data-mining is the norm (along with included de-facto warrantless surveillance). Even though we all should be better, nobody should have to be as careful as we are.
hell, let’s be real. As long as we use a smartphone, we’re not being careful enough either.
Oh for fucks sake, I already apologized twice.
But still walking alone into a dark alley at night in a questionable neighborhood is not the smartest thing if you don’t want to be assaulted.if you don’t want to be assaulted.
you don’t have to apologize, that’s not my point. in fact i want you to quietly think about how what you said before, and just now might be wrong til it hits home for you.
i know it seems like im baiting an answer. its the net, arguing is fun, nothing’s stopping you from replying, but I’m being straight with you. stop victim blaming. you’re not stupid, im not saying you are. *please, stop. it only helps the oppressor, and we’re all getting stomped by that boot.
i want you to know im not tryina bust your chops specifically. sure, i picked your comment to reply to, but it’s nothing personal.
I’m also speaking broadly to the room, reminding everybody what we already know; that how we look at pervasive surveillance n how we got to live under it is absolutely broken.
Feedback I’ve heard about Drip was that the interface was slightly wanting. Which is a shame. Sample of one, bear in mind!
I think many women just do not know it exists or do not know about the risks of using other apps
Like…a spreadsheet?
I couldn’t find a good one, so I’m open to recommendations
Periodical https://f-droid.org/packages/de.arnowelzel.android.periodical/ is good.
Look at the other comments, apparently drip should be the goto open source app.
Thanks!
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Drip looks to be available on Google Play, App Store and F-Droid.
It probably has a lot to do with informing people.
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tiny teams with limited resources.
If the apps work as intended, it doesn’t really matter.
Thank you !
erm, I do use Drip actually. i have used it for over a year now as I didn’t want trackers knowing my cycle.
women do use drip. we just don’t advertise it, usually.
i have also recommended it to friends who were looking for a more simple app than these google play store ones.
Periodical. Local storage only, f-droid.
I mean there are at least 2 apps for that in F-Droid. It’s just that most people are FOSS illiterate and only if a big corpo give them shit then they trust it.
I tried to talk to my wife about data ownership, opensource, etc. but it’s difficult to convey how important it is. She uses Flow. I’m trying to get her to at least try alternatives such as Drip
Not surprising, ‘open source’ is a deliberately ambiguous term, engineered to derailed libre software. First, clear up your own understanding, before telling others. Use simple words like control, scam and abuse. See this example. https://lemmy.world/post/21620691
Not everyone uses Android devices.
Edit: do you people not understand context? The person I replied to specifically mentioned F-Droid, which is ANDROID ONLY.
Well on iOS there’s the Apple health app. To my knowledge it stores health data locally. I’ll double check now.
Edit: it does store health data in iCloud by default, but according to Apple its end to end encrypted
By default, iCloud automatically keeps your Health app data, including health records, up to date across your devices. To disable this feature, open iCloud settings and turn off Health. iCloud protects your health records data by encrypting it both in storage and during transmission. If you’re using iOS 12 or later and have turned on two-factor authentication for your Apple Account, health records are encrypted using end-to-end encryption through iCloud. This means only you can access this information, and only on devices where you’re signed in to iCloud. No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information.
Wrong, Apple Health fails to include a libre software license text file. We do not control it, anti-libre software. Does Apple really think we are this easy to scam? It bans us from fixing backdoors. 🚩
Yeah I know it’s not FOSS in the slightest, but it’s not a predatory app selling your health data to the highest bidder, presumably. I acknowledge that requires taking Apple’s word at face value though
I mean, sure - but if you really don’t trust Apple to keep their word, then it wouldn’t matter if their Health app was FOSS or not. iOS itself is still (and probably forever will be) a closed source operating system. That gives them the power to do anything, including hijack the data from FOSS apps.
Replacing the system is easy when the apps don’t change, so start there.
I’m aware, but the person I responded to specifically mentioned F-Droid, which is Android-only.
File this under “no shit.”
that was my initial thought too, but then I remembered that if may not be so obvious to those who aren’t like-minded like that. it’s still good to share with friends and family who might not know about it
I happen to be a penis owner.
So what would happen if I were to install and use such a monthly tracker app and pretend I’ve been having regular monthlies for a while, then suddenly I miss a couple periods, then suddenly start having periods again?
Would the cops come beating my door down claiming I had an abortion? 🤔
Fuck this dystopian mass surveillance shit!
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I actually own 2 penises, I keep the spare in a jar in case of an emergency.
/s 😂🤣
Thank you for the public service announcement, I had no idea this was such a common issue. I should probably keep some emergency testicles around as well…
😂
I don’t even need to follow that link to know what this is
Congratulations, is it paid off?
I keep track of my wife’s period.
I use mensinator on fdroid made by two woman.
https://github.com/EmmaTellblom/Mensinator
She didn’t do it, so I had to.
Would the cops come beating my door down claiming I had an abortion? 🤔
I don’t think that has happened starting from a period tracking app yet. There was a case involving an unencrypted messaging app used to discuss a criminalized abortion.
I think even something like Drip is not sufficient in this kind of situation. If the police can compel someone to unlock their phone and decrypt data, then being local-only won’t stop them. Of course it’s a lot easier to ensure that no data exists if it’s local-only and something happens that might attract the interest of the police.
Nothing in this comment should be construed as legal advice.
No woman in the US should be tracking their period in any sort of app or software.
it can be tracked safely with an app that only stores local data.
I’m not sure what you’re scared of.
Why not?
Drip, the app mentioned several times in this thread, let’s you encrypt the locally stored database with a password you have to enter every time you open the app. How is that not safer than a random piece of paper?
It’s so exhausting that this thread is full of men telling women what they should and shouldn’t do while having very little knowledge about the topic.
And of people who assume the genders of others.
I’m sorry if I misgendered you. I was already exhausted from the other comments that clearly state that they are men and probably was biased in that regard. But my point still stands that there is no reason to completely forego tracking apps.
Yeah, and of course I haven’t looked into all of the tech and security of ways to set up these apps. I’m just exhausted myself from it seeming like nothing is ever 100% secure or free from risk, and I’m so cynical about the country I live in and what it will become in the future that I would just rather not trust anything at this point. I’m sure that doesn’t 100% hold water/is completely rational, but it’s where my head is.
I get that. It shouldn’t be necessary to do research just to be sure it’s safe. I apologise for my aggressive tone. It must be really scary and exhausting to live somewhere like that. My country is still holding up but seems to be sliding slowly in that direction too.
So do whatever makes you stay safe and feel safe.
I appreciate it and you
Apple Health encrypts your data and never sends it to anyone else.
Convenience wins out 99% of the time. Why carry a pen/paper when one can use the same device they already carry around? Hell, I don’t even use pen/paper anymore because my phone handles all that for me.
That said, I did set up some infrastructure at home that I use to store as much of my private data as possible.
Do women need an app for this? Surely a piece of paper would work just as well, and have a 0% chance of selling your data.
Edit: Yeah I deserve that.
Do people need an app for taking notes? Or a calendar?
Sure, I used to do it on paper for many years. But it’s much more convenient to track it on my phone, which I have almost always with me. That way I can check whether I’m likely to be bleeding heavily before making plans with my friends to go swimming that day or on a long hike without access to a toilet.
Also many women don’t just track the blood flow but also other data like temperature, cervix and cervical mucus. This helps calculate the most fertile days. It’s much easier to let an app do that.
Exacty, Drip features tracking for temperature, cervical mucus, the cervix, sex (solo or partner), desire, pain, and mood, along with spotting and your bleeding levels. It’s not just about “when will I have my period?” Additionally I love Drip because of the heads-up notif I get from them 3 days before my predicted period date. Also ut’s nice to have a computer calculate when my period will be and shows me if any were a little off or earlier than expected.
Plus since it’s encrypted and local, law enforcement would have to crack that to find my period data. I could totally imagine law enforcement coming up with a bullshit warrant and breaking into someone’s home, and finding a calendar or notebook marked with their period data and being tried for it.
Do they include period prediction now?
Yup! Pretty accurate too. Shows the day that it’s most likely to happen, and the two days around it are potential days. Gives you a notif about 5 days before it’s predicted to happen.
Do you really need a computer and social media? Just read the newspaper.
absolutely. you can also go back to sending hand written mail instead of using email or messaging apps too, but this is 2025 and software exists to help keep track of this.
also apps exist that store local data only.
The same could be said of to-do lists, right? But I still like having an app with a checklist, because my phone is always with me and a piece of paper is not.
When I did have periods (thank god for testosterone), I had a really difficult time keeping track of them and they were often very irregular. The app I used helped me pick up patterns and would warn me when I needed to be prepped. My dysphoria cope was pretending that they didn’t happen ever, so it was helpful to have that occasional “hey, pack some pads today” as a notification without constantly checking a calendar.
flo app makes $192 million a year with 5 million paying users, which seems absolutely wild to me for something that covers such a basic need
The humans in my family who experience menstrual cycles have been pretty happy with Clue who have an explicit promise to never give up your data. YMMV and of course you should evaluate what a promise from this organization means to you.
When they get our data, nothing will bring that copy back. ToS never works, libre software does.
My wife just asks me to grab her boobs and I can generally let her know several days out and be accurate to within half a day.
You need to teach me this skill. Any excuse to get frisky with my wife.
How adorable
My wife used to use the tracker in fitbit (I think), but once US states started passing laws to track periods, she’s stopped using it. It’s the wild west in my house now.
There are 2 open source menstrual trackers in f-droid. They don’t share data.
You can also use an analog tracker…
If you have an iPhone just use the Apple Health app. It works great and the data is encrypted and never shared with anyone.
Wrong, Apple Health fails to include a libre software license text file. We do not control it, anti-libre software. Does Apple really think we are this easy to scam? Others here have given a solution.
What fact did I get wrong? Be specific.
never shared with anyone.
Anti-libre software, Apple Health, bans us from proving this and worse, bans us from fixing it. We do not control it. 🚩 Others here have already given a solution.
And which phone has a libre radio baseband? Perhaps extremism ad absurdum is not useful advice.
Getting an app like drip, libre software, is not ‘extremism’. lmao
I didn’t realize those were baseband firmwares. Neat!
Some people never learn.
Not wrong. You’re arguing a different point than what they said.
Already trapped in iOS? More anti-libre apps make escape harder.
I don’t disagree with that, but the point here was freedom from advertisers and general data privacy, not data portability.
But there is an “export all data” feature in health, though.
Read my first comment again.
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Read the original comment again.
Lol sure apple doesnt use that data internally. /s
Yes, probably someone would like to, but they can’t.
I don’t know anything about health app in particular, but they posted some cool methods for finding highlight photos in your library using what they call “differential privacy” on their research blog.
https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/scenes-differential-privacy
past performance may not predict future. js. mark a calendar
I legitimately have an idea for an app that solves this problem. Its key feature, besides being open source, would be that people without uteruses could use it too, making any data conceivably collected useless.
I don’t have the skills to make it myself (yet), but if any developer wants to talk I’ll give the idea away. I just want it to be made.
App would be open source, all data local. Perhaps the option to sync to encrypted iCloud or Android equivalent, but certainly not a cloud-based option you need a new login for. All the features currently in these kinds of apps and that make them useful for menstruating people. Now replace “period” with “hair cut”. Non-menstruating people can now use it, earnestly, for tracking when their last hair cut was, making it useful and the data (if it were to be collected somehow) just noise.
I even have a name in mind: “hair**.**cuts” (heavy emphasis on the period in the name.) Idea is that anyone with it on their device has plausible deniability that they are using it for period tracking, but the “period” in the name is an implicit wink so we all know what it’s really being used for.
You could even expand this idea by being able to add different things to track and give it a name yourself!
That is pretty cool. But I have to think since the US is the country in which this is pertinent an iOS app would be most effective.
Drip (Android/iOS)
Yep. Info never leaves your phone.
Made my own desktop app in python (tkinter) which encrypts the data with GPG. It has predictions and potential ovulation days. The predictions seem pretty accurate so far.
Has “if it makes a funny noise I’ll shoot the computer” vibes, love it
Haha thanks. If you want to check it out, the link is: https://codeberg.org/kingorgg/period_tracker
I haven’t tried it on windows though, so I’m not sure if it will work properly on there. It’s just a personal project for now. The UI is pretty basic too.
