In many parts of Europe, it’s common for workers to take off weeks at a time, especially during the summer. Envious Americans say it’s time for the U.S. to follow suit.
Some 66% of U.S. workers say companies should adopt extended vacation policies, like a month off in August, in their workplaces, according to a Morning Consult survey of 1,047 U.S. adults.
Approximately 50% of voters will vote for a political party that views any such reform as communism.
It’s actually quite a bit less than 50%, but their votes have a bigger impact because of a broken system.
We’re heading through a dry county, and for political reasons it’s a very long, narrow county. So I cannot serve alcohol until we’re through.
-King of the Hill
sure, but effectively they deadlock the system and prevent any structural reform. Also, national polling currently has close to 50% of the voting population supporting a trump second term. We can’t even get the Democratic Party to support universal public healthcare. The ideological delusion, the willingness of the people to support a system that makes their lives anxious and miserable, cuts across both political parties as well as the general population.
So much this. We have an antiquated and ridiculous system that gives the regressives far, far too much of a voice.
Socialism is a very nice son of rationalism. It is time for a review
Who is the remaining 34% that don’t want this? Brown nosing middle management cunts? Pto policies at a ton of companies in America are abhorrent. Just 2 weeks ago, I had a mental breakdown over my workload and had to call in only getting further behind the next day.
“Gee mdot, you could sure use a vacation!”
Ya. No shit. The problem is, I’ve only been here for 6 months and don’t have much pto banked AND if I were to take longer than a day off, I’d be so behind that it wouldn’t even be worth it. Luckily, someone on my team gets back from maternity leave in 2 months. Even then, it’s going to be hard to leave because of my workload and, for the first 2 years I get 10 days of pto per year. That’s it.
“Gee mdot, you should get a new job.”
Ya. No shit. But I just started here 6 months ago, I don’t want to look job hoppy and they compensate me well. Also…as with many Americans, health insurance is tied to our jobs. My insurance is solid and the specialist I see for a chronic health condition is in network. I do not want to change.
Millions of Americans are probably in a similar boat as I am and it sucks. Stuck in a job dealing with shit company “policies” all because they pay me well and give me insurance. They don’t treat me well, though.
Sorry for the rant, clearly I needed to get that out lol.
I am truly sorry that you are stuck in this awful situation. The system (or large parts of it) are designed like this. Keeps people in check. As an European, I find it baffling. Not everything is prefect here, far from it. I’m dealing with chronic health issues myself and I probably wouldn’t survive the US.
There is nothing I can do to help you, but I emphasize with your situation and hope, that you can rest soon!
I appreciate it! My boss is a good dude and is helping me figure it out. It’s his boss that are the bastards. Luckily I have a very supportive partner who told me to just do my best and if they don’t like it, they can fire me and I can take some time off (she does well financially too and we have a solid savings account). I’m in a decent situation but I couldn’t imagine being in this situation and being 1 check away from living on the streets like millions of people are.
Here’s how tired I am: I went to bed at 6pm last night and woke up at 8:30am. I failed to mention I’m also back in college as well so…I’m exhausted.
Probably not what you wanted to hear or see, but this is why managers are there. Exactly why you said the boss of the manager is an ass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnsRU3JJ_rs
I’m gonna assume the remaining 33% prefer to have a vacation other than summertime.
I came here hoping somecritter had asked what “OOO” is. Nocritter has, so I’ve decided that it must mean “Object-Oriented Overtime.”
(Okay, I looked it up and it seems to be “out of office” but that’s not as funny)
Surely it means ‘Objecively Outré Outerwear’? Everyone should have a chance to wear unusual clothing in August.
Only occasionally obtuse?
They have dropped that “take a month off” thing like it’s some crazy regular thing that happens.
I don’t know about the rest of Europe, but in the UK you normally get 25 to 30 days of Annual Leave, companies often give extra days for long term or exceptional service, some have salary sacrifice options to buy more. Where I work you can even win some in charity raffles. The expectation is that you book them in advance with your boss when you want to use them.
If you want to save it all and take a month off then so long as the boss is okay with it, then off you go. But you won’t have any leave days for the rest of the year.
25 days off is 5 weeks (because days off would only be the work days.) That’s over a month.
Most positions in the US seem to give 10 days of annual leave a year. Some may also include sick pay as well.
It’s even more than 5 weeks if you take days off adjacent to bank holidays. One can easily stretch it to 6+ in many countries.
Yep - it’s a tired misconception I first encountered working for an American 20 odd years ago.
While it’s true that it’s difficult to get much out of France Spain and especially Italy in august - it’s because it’s holiday season - not because everyone is gone for a whole month
25 to 30 days of annual leave is unheard of in the US. And it translates to 5-6 weeks, which is well over a month. It’s common in a lot of European countries to take 4 of those weeks off in a single continuous summer break, usually August (some prefer July to avoid the August crowds). Yes, there’s a misconception that everyone in Europe takes August off, it’s ultimately up to each individual how they allocate their days off, but there are companies that do assume everyone will take August off and all but shut down during that month.
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Do you get paid during your month off?
In Finland you get paid 1.5x your normal monthly salary in the month you are in vacation. History of it is that to ensure you continue working after the vacation.
Edit: it is not in the law, it is just something that unions have negotiated
Of course.
Yeah, I’m also from the UK and not sure where tf this “August off” thing is from, whether it’s something other European countries do.
People usually take 1-2 weeks off at a time for a holiday then the odd day here and there, a month is ridiculous.
I was gonna say that you’d burn out if you used up an entire month at once, but I guess Americans would be used to that kind of shit anyway.
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Here in Germany taking 3 consecutive weeks off is pretty normal, for me that’s also the maximum that I can take off in a row without jumping through additional administrative hoops. A whole month isn’t normal, but it could certainly be arranged
Same, we have to cover about 4 weeks of closed child care and 6 weeks of closed schools. So we take a bunch of our 30 days and turn them into a 3 week stay somewhere.
Like so many things in the minds of Americans, when they think of social benefits in Europe, they think of Sweden.
In Sweden it is actually not unusual to take 4 full weeks off every year in Summer. Especially if you have kids. Can be even 6 weeks for some years if you still got enough parental leave to take. And that is in addition to time off around Christmas, although then maybe not more than 1 1/2 weeks or so.
Parental leave? Lol
Same in France.
I don’t think its a Federal requirement to offer employees any vacation or sick leave in the US. For many office jobs you have to earn leave time over the course of months or years - it’s not unheard of to have zero leave time the first six months of employment.
Paid sick leave, no, but your job is protected by FMLA.
It’s only protected by FMLA after you have worked there for a year, because fuck you I guess.
Cool, I get zero sick days and get paid a lump sum “vacation” bonus every year equivalent to one week’s salary.
I get no real paid time off otherwise
Strike
If you want to save it all and take a month off then so long as the boss is okay with it
Yeah, most bosses aren’t ok with that.
Where I am now I get two consecutive weeks maxThat’s double the amount of time off I have here in the U.S.
And I only get a week of paid sick days, which I’ve already used up due to an illness which hasn’t even been properly diagnosed yet.
I even have to make up time if I go to the doctor.
In the UK the government mandates that your employer pay you whats called statutory sick pay for up to 28 week should the illness require it, which is a minimum of £109 a week.
In addition, your continued employment by the company is protected and they cannot fire you for being sick.
In reality the company will often support staff members for much longer if needed. That’s just how things are expected to be. I’ve had a member of my team go on very long term sick with leukemia and he was supported by the company for over 4 years while he was in and out of hospital, letting him work part time and from home when he needed to, at his discretion.
Expectations on companies here and the protections offered to worked in regards to thier employment and unfair dismissal situations puts the “land off the free” to shame
Not surprised. I would honestly move there tomorrow (my father was English and I was born before the 1980s cutoff, so I could get citizenship), but I don’t want to abandon my dogs.
Why not take the dogs with you, if that is „all“?
Well, I don’t know UK law, but generally that means putting the dogs in quarantine for months and I don’t want to do that to them.
Damn, I only took half of August off like a sucker. In Germany we also have fixed school holidays which are in August in some states, and cannot move them. Most parents then take 2-3 weeks off in the summer, others hoard their leave and are forced to take it in a big chunk before the company gets in trouble.
Team leader from Germany here: This might oversell European holiday-regulations a fair bit here. Not one of the people in my team will get one whole month off in summer. How’s that supposed to work? I can spare two people on holiday at any given time, So if all of my 13 workers want to have a week or two in July/August/September, none of them can have more than three weeks, and you’d have to be lucky for 3 weeks to align with the other’s wishes. Otherwise, two weeks is realistic.
Well, in Sweden the employer is required by law to offer at least four weeks of continuous vacation during the summer break.
So there are obviously differences within the Union is what I’m saying I guess.
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2 weeks is still exceptional. 2 weeks off at the same time happens in the US, but it’s rare.
I’ve found most people in the US use PTO to have a 4-day weekend when a national holiday is also occurring.
People here will use their holidays for such things as well (single working days that fall between a holiday and the weekend even have a name here: “Brückentag”/“Bridge day”).
Cool, I get zero sick days and get paid a lump sum “vacation” bonus every year equivalent to one week’s salary.
I get no real paid time off otherwise
Also team leader in Germany here. I’m currently on a three week vacation. Two members of my team take 4 consecutive weeks of vacation each. There are only 8 people in my team so impact of one person missing is even greater. There are weeks when only half the team is not on vacation. Our labour agreement doesn’t even allow us to deny vacation requests. We just “simply” plan ahead and don’t take on projects we can’t handle during that time. So it highly depends on circumstances whether this is possible, it’s definitely not generalizable.
A lot of people seem to be confused by the “entire month of August off” thing, there is a bit of background to that, namely that factories shut down production in August for 2, sometimes 3 weeks. I’m not sure if this is a general thing, but all the factories that I worked with across Europe were doing this.
There are industries that do this in the US too, such as car manufacturing. However even then, the plant is shut down for a week or two, and you are required to take your vacation during this period. …. Except of course the people going in to do all the plant maintenance, who are prohibited from vacation during that period
Some of it comes from heavy industry, with the time of machinery that you just don’t turn off and on . The big steel makers for example, would only stop the furnace for the summer break (last week of July first week of august). And Christmas. Holiday was mandated at that time - known as the “factory weeks”
A lot of it comes from August being fucking hot, which makes it hard to work. Not everyone is an office worker in an air conditioned environment.
I love paid time off. But the summer when tons other people are off and everything is busy/expensive/hot would be my very last choice.
I’m all about that off season.
We don’t specify when you go on vacation in Europe it’s just 5 weeks of paid time off
Is there a story behind your username?
Agreed, I was on vacation earlier this month for a couple weeks since it was the only time that made sense with my work schedule. It was just brutally expensive to stay anywhere because things were booked up.
Same; I’m Scottish, so anything over about 35C will literally kill me. A week’s diving in Malta during October, though? Lovely!
I grew up in the US North, and now live in the US midAtlantic South, and I’ve given up going outside for most of the summer. Getting drenched with sweat in unseasonably cool weather because the humidity is 99% and mosquitoes that come out in full sunlight any time of day and grass with chiggers that want to make me shred off my skin almost the entire year 'round is enough to make me really wish I had the scratch to be a snow-bird.
In Switzerland, on the other hand, we have turned down an additional two weeks of vacation with a majority of 67 % in 2012. Which leaves us with a meager 4 weeks.
34% of Americans responded “grind my body into the ground, capitalism daddy”
I’m European and I have 1 month across all the year. I took 1 week during spring, 1 week in July, 1 week in August and I have another week for the rest of the year.
I couldn’t say “hey, I won’t show up during the whole month”.
I know lots of us people with “unlimited time off” type contracts. No one ever takes more than a week because they are afraid that their bosses wouldnt like it.
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I…do not know what’s being said here.
In Germany, you get at least 28 days of holidays per year. Company even has to budget for them, so if you don’t take them, it creates a huge headache for them in regards to finalizing their yearly results because they might have to keep money back. Sorry, I don’t have the correct economical term, in German it is a Rückstellung. So there is a very high insentive to get all of your people to take their holidays, because otherwise it’s a pain in the ass and will delay everything.
Does Germany also have a maximum amount of days an employee can save before they are legally required to take them out?
Research shows that people with unlimited time off take fewer days than people with set amount of time off.
I am definitely an outlier here. We have unlimited PTO and 98% of our workforce is in the US so most people never take more than three or four days at a time. And often end up at the end of the year having taken less PTO than they would have as a regular hourly worker.
But not me… I’ll take 3 weeks at a time if I have plans. They can fire me if they want. I have a nice 3 months worth of severance written into my contract if they are the ones who terminate it.
That would give me a month more of break and then 2 months to find a job.
I know this isn’t possible for everyone. But if more people stood up for themselves, even within the confines of these contracts, we would all be better off as management and executive get used to it over time.
I’ve been told that generally, this is so the company doesn’t have to pay you back for unused PTO if you leave the company.
I can’t vouch for this as true, but it makes sense.
It can be to limit how much vacation time the company has to pay out on separation, or to limit how much “liability” for vacation pay they have on the books at any given time. If your employees get 5 days of vacation a year, use it or lose it, you don’t have to deal with someone who (the horror!) has built up 2 weeks and wants to use it all at once.
There are no state or federal laws that give employees a right to paid vacation time. Only 10 states require the company to pay out unused vacation time when you leave (CA, CO, IL, IN, LA, MA, ME, ND, NE, RI). In most of those states, use it or lose it policies are illegal. Everywhere else, the company policy basically decides if it gets paid out or not.
That is why time off is supposed to be mandatory
If you get such a contract, make sure to read it closely. I had it once, phrased more like “there is no policy restricting time off”. It’s really up to your manager and it means there is an invisible limit that may be different for everyone, you won’t know about until you hit it.
In my case, I had a good manager, but sure enough, got dinged after taking off two weeks in the year (the worst part was no actual vacation but individual days off for kid’s appointments). I much prefer an actual limit, because then you can take it
Yeah because it’s a fucking scam who’s primary purpose is to eliminate pto liability from their accounting. It’s the equivalent of the 401k scam that eliminated corporate pension plans as a standard benefit.
I have unlimited PTO, and it’s a total scam. I’m a contractor, and contracts have required hours within required time-frames. These time-frames don’t have margin for taking off a couple weeks at a time. Any time you take off, has to be made up, so it’s not really time off
My company has this and just about everyone I work with utilizes the unlimited time off. Most people land in the 5-6 weeks of vacation a year + sick + personal business + holidays.
There are the few who make work their hobby too, but you can’t do anything for those people IMO
What is the difference to vacation and personal days?
Personal business is for things that need to be done touring business hours but aren’t vacation. Things like doctors appointments, meeting a service person to fix something at your home, or some delivery that requires you be home. Those kind of things
A lot of the time the difference is in how much notice you need to give work before taking the time off.
Sometimes they are treated different for expirations as well. For example, accrued vacation time usually has to be paid if you leave, might have some or all rollover to the be next year, while other types of time off are more likely use it or lose it
Attending funerals, births etc aren’t really holidays
I don’t know about that. Depends on who died…
Depends on where you live, the two European countries that I’ve lived and worked in my employers would allow additional leave for funerals of aunts, uncles, cousins and some even allowed for the death of a pet.
Exactly, we get days off for this on top
Oh, we have bereavement and paternity/maternity leave.
Americans are too afraid to unionize. They don’t actually want a better life, they just want to raise up the rich and punch down the poor and middle class because of some fucked up sense of “work ethic”.
For some that’s true.
But we undergo a great deal of brainwashing. Unions are demonized, billionaires lionized, puritanical (insane) work ethic lauded, anything less than that vilified, etc.
Attempts at unionization are aggressively subverted and crushed by large corpos.
And most people are given just enough to not want to risk it all to get a bit more.
It will be a while, yet, before US culture shifts enough that more people side with unions, join unions, and build critical mass. Although, younger generations seem to be more aware of the anti-labor BS more than my gen (x) was at a similar age.
Yeah, they’re so afraid to unionize that…they unionized in Starbucks, UPS, railroads, hospitals, maintenance management…
If I’m stuck in the USA, I’m gonna find an unlimited time of job and actually use that benefit like Europeans. Fuck American work culture.
I’m sure you’ll keep that job for several months. The other part of American “work culture” is how quickly and easily we can lose that job. Be happy that you have some worker protection
So nearly 34% of Americans don’t support having workers get vacation time. Huh, wonder who those 34% are…
Small business owners, managers, people worried that they will end up picking the slack from their coworkers, people with jobs that pay less but have large amounts of vacation time, the retired who don’t benefit but definitely lose, and of course bootlickers.
It’s sad. The real issue is an odd application of American capitalism and, believe it or not, unions. Yes, those same people that take credit for the 40 hour workweek and weekends prevented guaranteed vacation benefits.
Back in the New Deal when so many benefits were being codified, the unions began lobbying against going too far. The reason was their fear that if employers were forced by law to offer too good of benefits, then people would have no reason to join a union.
Of course, union membership has since collapsed, so we are now all stuck with the fallout and employers thinking 2-3 weeks of PTO is somehow enough. And never mind that as it turns out, European nations generally have higher union membership anyway.
Here is a source: https://www.npr.org/2023/08/17/1194467863/europe-vacation-holiday-paid-time-off
