Alt text: A line plot with 2 axis (confidence vs competence) referencing the Dunning-Kruger effect with various distro logos placed at different points on the line. Starts with mint/ubuntu near (0,0) and progressing through multiple distros to end up with opensuse/fedora at what it calls “the plateau of sustainability”
why is manjaro there twice? it’s a horrible experience no one in their right mind would return to
Fedora is also there twice.
This is perfectly normal.
It also works with a Gaussian: (Noob) haha Fedora go brrr -> (angry advanced) nooo you must use Arch/Nix/Gentoo/Slackware -> (Linus Torvalds) haha Fedora go brrr
Fedora fucked up my PC way more times in a year than Gentoo did in 3.
I’m not leaving Gentoo.
I’ve updated fedora releases for like 10 years with zero issues, even went from one laptop to the other and dd’d three times to new SSDs without reinstalling.
I think it may be you who fucked up your PC.
It was nvidia drivers mostly.
And it was 12 years ago.
Yeah I had lots of problems with Winmodems on Slackware 20 years ago, definitely a bad distro too!
I switched to Ubuntu then and has no issues since.
So yeah.
I love my Manjaro. I always come back to it… but I may not be in my right mind.
To be fair, it’s OK. Just you might want to check out EndeavourOS when you need to format your PC again.
I have both and I like them almost equally.
I think I’ve seen this story before. :P
Everything is in the “almost” 😅
I love that !
Look, don’t judge me, but manjaro has been the only distro to just work. I haven’t been fucked by nvidia drivers that I know of, I haven’t had any glaring issues… I’m not saying I disagree with the criticisms, but as a ‘just use the fucking computer’ distro, it’s great.
Manjaro’s fine. Most of their problems were years ago. If it works for you, don’t listen to the mob.
Manjaro is awesome. The hate is not deserved and as you said, everything just works perfectly.
“Maybe I was the problem?”
they managed to make arch less stable, never update their ssl cert, and every installation slowly falls apart until it’s unusable… sure, I’m the problem
You are, by installing it in the first place.
My system I installed 10 years ago is unusuable now?
“I donated money to them so I am going to use it.”
Although not much, just 20 EUR. Not sure how much the bundled Windows license costs, but surely Microsoft has other ways to earn from spyware.
Nope. The developers are notorious. Look it up bud.
Starting fights today are we?
Gotta dig in early before the pesky Americans wake up
Brother you posted this at the Americans’ lunch time (or second breakfast for the pacific coasters) ?? They were already arguing and here you come with petrol and a lit match
I assume Hannah Montana Linux is off the chart to the right
Users often achieve enlightenment and can simultaneously interact with many planes of existence - that just can’t be shown on a 2D chart for us plebs.
Hannah Montana Linux, or HM/Linux as I’ve taken to calling it, is the sign of true civilization.
Not a single comment about Kali that I can pick a fight with?? So disappointed rn
Not a graph of the Dunning-Kruget Effect. It’s actually a reverse of the uncanny valley chart. This is the Dunning-Kruger effect chart:
started at debian still at debian
I started with Debian as well for my first server while I still had Windows as my desktop. Once I finally got around to ditching Windows, I was comfortable enough with a headless Debian server so figured I’d just stick with it for my desktop.
Definitely had some learning curves there. There’s a lot more tinkering to do to get things working
As a Qubes user, do I span the entire graph?
Servers = Debian
Desktop/Laptop = ArchWhy Arch?
Genuine question, I have been on pop os for some time now, recently changed laptop and am thinking of changing os as well.
What Toot said.
Things I would emphasize are:
-
The community “critical mass” is amazing with the wiki, online posts and such. You get a lot of support that isn’t ancient, jank and ad hoc like Ubuntu.
-
Arch emphasizes paying attention. It’s not a hands free OS: you have know what graphics drivers you run, and what your desktop environment is. When you update, you have to watch the log for emergency messages and such, including official notifications from the arch repos themself. It’s not a “hands off” OS where you can operate without knowing anything about it, but the reward is that shit gets fixed quick, officially, without having to stray from defaults and break your system, or accumulating a bunch of hacks you have to maintain yourself.
-
Much of Arch’s bad reputation comes from AUR. Don’t use anything from the AUR (instead of an official repo package) unless you absolutely have to. This is when stuff starts breaking. Installing standalone apps that aren’t on the repo via AUR is fine, but to be clear, avoid things that integrate with the system if you can.
-
It doesn’t have to be hardcore barebones like Gentoo, there are all sorts of Preconfigurations like Garuda and Endeavor. I recommend CachyOS (which I have kept for two years now, and will into the future).
-
I’m not RanzigFettreduziert, and I don’t know much about PopOS, but…
- Rolling release is awesome.
- Amazing documentation.
- Helpful user base. (The forums are great.)
- Does pretty much nothing that you don’t specifically tell it to. (Like, very little is installed without your express say-so, for instance.)
- Customizeable as fuck.
- Doesn’t making things harder by trying to hide the “hard parts” from you.
- Doesn’t take days to install Libreoffice like Gentoo.
- AUR is great for software that isn’t available in the official repos. (Always review the pkgbuild, but practically everything is there.)
- Very up-to-date (even cutting-edge) on everything.
- And surprisingly stable given how cutting edge it is. (That said, I’ve never run a keyword-unmasked system.)
- Definitely will teach you a lot.
- Very actively developed.
Downsides:
- Learning curve. (Definitely not as bad as, say, Gentoo, though.)
- You’d definitely have to get really comfortable with the command line. (Arguably as much a good thing as it is a downside.)
- The biggest exception to the “customizeable as fuck” bit is that you’re stuck with SystemD, which is practically a whole OS. (And Artix (Arch but with a choice of init systems) is… kinda janky last I tried it.)
- Support for non-x86 (like ARM, for instance) is abysmal.
It’s kindof the second-most hardcore OS out there after Gentoo. (Nobody actually uses LFS as a daily driver, so I’m not counting that for this.) It’s the sort of OS that will teach you a lot and let you get down in the guts. But also avoids a lot of the downsides of Gentoo by remaining a binary OS.
There are a lot of binary packages in Gentoo, for the bigger packages (like LibreOffice), plus you can just use a binary repo if you want. I’ve been on Gentoo a while now, it’s pretty fun and I like all the customization even though I know the relatively minor efficiencies don’t make up for the compile times lol.
relatively minor efficiencies don’t make up for the compile times lol.
It’s sometimes even a regression. For instance, self-compiled pytorch is way slower than the official releases, and Firefox generally is too unless you are extremely careful about it. Stuff like Python doesn’t get a benefit without patches.
I think the point of Gentoo is supposed to be ‘truly from source’ and utility for embedded stuff, not benchmark performance. Especially since there are distros that offer ‘march’ optimized packages now.
Yeah, I know about the binary repositories. I’m running Gentoo as well (on one box with the intention to expand to other machines), but haven’t had occasion to use the official binary repositories yet.
I imagine I’d probably only ever use them if I wanted to install something temporarily. Install LibreOffice, view a file, uninstall. Just seems weird to have one package compiled with different USE flags than the whole rest of the system.
And, the compiler optimizations definitely aren’t why I use Gentoo. Probably more than anything, I’m sick of SystemD. And Gentoo feels a whole lot more “under my control” than Arch. (Arch is great for the most part, don’t get me wrong. I just like what Gentoo has to offer.)
I came because of all the memes.
I stayed to say ‘I use Arch by the way’.
Thats all and i like the idea of a rolling distribution.I am not alone!
At first I installed Arch because I got an Arch sticker, and if I put it on my laptop that felt like the only appropriate solution.
This is the way.
I know nothing, and I’m keeping it that way
My system of choice is Mint, btw
Meh, I’m relatively experienced and just use Ubuntu
That’s because you use your computer and it’s not part of your personality. I’m reasonably well versed in Linux and I’ve used Pop for years.
“Not a part of your personality” then “PopOS, btw”
Uh yeah it’s context because Ubuntu and Pop are on the “beginner” side of there chart.
Is pop maintained? When are they upgrading to the latest Ubuntu and supporting HDR?
It is, but they’ve been working on their new DE Cosmic which should be hitting beta soon.
Is it still not in beta? I was on pop in late 2023 and left for OpenSUSE TW because cosmic was taking too long and they were still on Ubuntu LTS 22.04. and Gnome Extensions broke on me.
Yeah they’re on like alpha 7 I think? That sucks. I hope OpenSUSE is treating you better.
I see it’s just recently been announced about the beta. Great that they’re hearing up for release. I’m in support of what they’re doing I think I realised that I didn’t like Gnome (neither does System76 by the looks!).
OpenSUSE TW with KDE is perfect for me. Not a sexy/flashy distro but it is the most robust rolling release I’ve seen, and maintained by a European company that has been working on it for decades.
Particularly like the QC/staggered addition of packages and YAST.
Love me some SUSE. People forget that it is one of the OG distributions out there. Been trying Linux from time to time but only switched completely from windows earlier this year. Been messing with Fedora and SUSE way back as a teenager. Unfortunately my experience with opensuse was laggy YouTube on a complete fresh install (AMD btw) so I just switched to cachyos which didn’t have any issues (sooo much better than Manjaro IMHO). Still love SUSE… And fedora. These two will always have a place in my tech heart.
Edit for typos from typing on glass.
Been maining Linux mint for 3 years now. I did distrohop once to nobara to see if the grass was greener on the other side, but had to revert due to Nvidia.
… The grass wasn’t green, but tasted exactly the same. Apart from Nvidia (which isn’t a distro issue but more shitty company that can’t make things right), the only noticeable changes is going from cinnamon to KDE.
There’s no “stupid distro” nor “smart distros”. Everything is valid. (Although I’d argue that Linux mint is the best beginner distro, to let people get into Linux gently before eventually trying something else)
I’ve been using Linux since you created a boot floppy by using
ddon the kernel. I use Ubuntu because I just want something that works, is stable in the LTS sense of the word, and I don’t have to futz with. I’ve heard enough about Mint now that I’ll probably switch over to it when I build my next machine in several years.Same here, except I switched to Mint a couple years ago. You won’t be disappointed. And if you’re sanguine about waiting until you get a new machine, just go with LMDE.
I’ve been using Linux since you created a boot floppy by using dd on the kernel
Wait, is that not how you do it anymore? I swear, I just went through trialing a few more distros, and I dded like crazy.
You might have been using
ddto burn an ISO image onto a USB stick or some such, but sincerely doubt that you were writing just the kernel to the first sector of a 3.5" floppy disk and then booting off of it, while it found your ISA hard drive.Ah, right. Totally different.
I was going to say - what’s wrong with Mint?
I don’t feel the need to switch. Ubuntu serves me well. And I prefer GNOME
How’s the Wayland support in Linux mint?
Available and in active development. You can still use GNOME on mint, BTW.
Debian servers in the streets, Kubuntu desktop in the sheets.
I use Ubuntu on the server too :3
I’ve been working with Linux for the better part of 20 years at this point. Ubuntu is perfectly fine my time is too valuable to spend numerous hours fucking around getting shit to work properly. If that makes me an idiot then I’m happily an idiot.
I get that many people have issues with snap, SystemD or whatever else they want to throw out. I don’t give a shit. You’re whinging into the wind over nothing burgers.
I am so sick of seeing this ridiculous diagram being labeled the “Dunning-Kruger effect”. Go read the actual 1999 paper they wrote. The key takeaway is that the lowest quartile of people tend to overestimate their own performance, and the top quartile underestimate theirs. It doesn’t posit anything like this graph, and this is just an ironic example of ignorance.
And second, I am so sick of seeing these ridiculous distro comparisons. Stop with this elitism, even if done humorously. People of all experience levels can be found using different distros, and they all have unique advantages, disadvantages, and communities built around them. Don’t shame the great effort that people put into maintaining and developing distros, repositories, and packages. A noob can use Arch, and a master can use Ubuntu. Use what appeals to you, and be happy in knowing you can experiment or stick to anything. This is the beauty of FOSS and the Linux ecosystem; it’s a great place for both tinkerers as well as those who want familiarity. There is no one true way.
I’m running Kinonite and Fedora Cinnamon spin on my two machines. So I must be at ‘enlightenment’.
Honestly, I’m tired Boss-- so tired. After years and years of fooling around with various Distros, I no longer want to work hard to make my computer work. I like the auto-update feature of Kinonite. Life is short and I ain’t got that much of it left to waste on Arch…
I use opensuse tumbleweed
It’s the one i’ll go for once I have energy to switch from Debian.
Not that I have many things against Debian, but the install it once is the thing attracting me. Yeah… changing a word in my sources.list is hard!
Start using it in a distrobox and once you switch nothing much will change except the underlying base os that you don’t touch anyway.
There are several of us!!
Yeah!! I use KDE plasma :3
I use it within a distrobox. I love it
I chose Tumbleweed for my first desktop Linux install a couple of months ago. Only had some minor issues so far (like missing codecs).
Although I recently tried to build a Kwin plugin, and even though I figured out the build dependencies, it didn’t show up as expected, not sure what’s going on there.
Why in the world is Fedora peak enlightenment. Any well run, simple, community run distro is peak enlightenment.
