- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Context: https://literature.cafe/post/987996
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This is the biggest design flaw of lemmy.
Instances should host separate content, and aggregation of separate instances should be up the client.
Instead we got the worst of all worlds. It means that lemmy can never truly scale performance wise or survive legal wise.
Hopefully they solve it in some way, but I don’t see how unless they do the above and totally remove cross instance caching
aggregation of separate instances should be up the client.
Yea you’ll have a problem with overloaded requests
Example:
A post is located at Instance A, it has 100 users and can handle up to 150 connections at a time
Instance B has 100 users
Instance C has 100 users
Assuming all these users are from the same timezone and have the same one hour of free time after coming home from work
All users at Instance B and C wants to see the post at Instance A
200 requests gets sent to Instance A
Instance A also receive 100 requests from it’s own users
Instance A receives a total of 300 requests at around the same time. Instance is overloaded.
All of Intances A, B, and C would need at least 300 connection capacity in order for this to work.
Imaging there being 10 instances. All of them would need at least 1000 connection capacity. Each one of them.
Instances need to cache other instances to reduce redundant requests. This way the requests are reduced to 1. Only one copy needs to be sent to each other instance, instead of being sent to each individual user of those instances.
All 100 of each user at an instance could just use that 1 copy at their instance.
So now in this scenario:
Instance A has a post everyone wants to see, Instance A gets 100 requests + 1 from each other instance. Even with 10 total instances (including themself), there’d be only 109 requests, a far more manageable number than 1000.
I thought it says/should say SCAM. Boy was I wrong…
This is why federation sucks. It doesn’t fulfill its intended purpose, users are still at the mercy of site administration, and the way it’s structured leaves too many holes for nefarious people to take advantage of. It’s not good for the Internet.
We need a better system.
I don’t get it. Why is this a risk to you? The material isn’t being hosted on your server; your users are just accessing it via your server. If someone accesses illegal content, is their ISP going to be shut down because they provided that user access? No.
If you run a lemmy server, there’s a good chance you’re hosting the content. Servers cache some content, and thumbnails are also generated and cached for external links.
Plus if your server is the one where someone uploaded the content.
When data get cached, then it is being stored on your server. That’s why admins are wiping their caches and images are getting deleted.
Tell it to your local jurisdiction, that gets hot for your data.
I’m sure the dude kicking in your door will understand
(I know this isn’t how Lemmy works and not how the internet works, but fucked dup sheriffs exist the world over)
Your instance usually downloads a copy of that image to serve faster. It’s not entirely clear cut how this works since it varies, but in this instance the content was cached by pictrs, turning all federated servers subscribed to the community into distributors
Here I thought I could create a server and then use that as a instance only to hold my profile where I could then use that to interact across the fediverse
You can absolutely do that, just make the profile registration private
But the federation issue with CSAM… I don’t want those issues.
deleted by creator
Yes, but people can still browse content from your instance without logging in. There is nothing stopping people from viewing illegal material through your instance.
Section 230 makes this but an issue. It would be like suing the phone company. Especially if you don’t moderate. If you moderate then it can be said what is left had your endorsement. If you don’t moderate, then you are simply a victim of vandalism.
Section 230 is only applicable to the US
Free countries have an equivalent, or else free online discussion space would be impossible. The section 230 compromise is inevitable or the internet would perish.
Ok, I think I might be misunderstanding the issue; so it’s more of bad actors rather than a copy of images in cache?
Is there some guide to it? I was thinking the same!
Yeah I have wanted that from day one. I want it to work like mail my identity on my domain that I can bring anywhere, store my comments, posts, subscriptions and that’s it, maybe direct messages or explicitly saved posts. Not every damn post that I read / subscribe.
Why are people like this
Because they can.
And it’s easy. Society spends so much time and effort making life easier via improvements like simple image uploading and sharing, so of course some piece of shit will use it for this. Just a few clicks and they’ve created headaches for thousands of people. It requires no ability so the barrier of entry is as low as being the kind of trash that likes that stuff.
And because of trauma, I assume (though I could be wrong).
Bruh I saw that shit. It was fucked up
Please clear your browser cache and take care of yourself in whatever you need to. I am so sorry you had to see it.
Thanks. Can’t unsee it. It was in my app (Memmy), but I should probably clear that cache.
On Android you can long press an app icon to get to app properties (from launcher or app switcher) and look for storage and then wipe cache
And fuck all of the lemmy users who demand that instance owners take on the risk that the users demand.
No, unpaid volunteers do not want jailtime for the child porn you wish to post.
Never heard of Section 230?
It is with great sorrow that I inform you that not everyone in the world is from the USA.
wiseguy, eh? You know what I’m talking about and if you call the law something else in your region, good for you: you’re unique.
The law is the same: content hosts are not liable for illegal content if they don’t know about it.
You may be thinking about DMCA in US law which have the “don’t know about it” provision. You’re still not protected from other federal laws unless those too have a similar provision
Not every country has a law which protects you like that, and some have the exact opposite law that actively goes after you for it instead.
Doesn’t preempt federal law, only state law
Maybe Mozilla could help. I know they’re trying to help make the net less of s toxic place and this is some serious thing.
You can look into Cloudflare’s CSAM setting, but I’m not exactly sure what it does.
I don’t understand how a web host is legally responsible for what their users post as long as there’s active moderation removing it in a timely manner.
FYI in USA the law CDA section 230 only preempts state law but not federal law. If something which is federally illegal lands on your server you need to deal with it ASAP
You are correct, there is safe harbor provisions on the matter. There is a legal responsibility to report and store the content securely when it is reported as an admin.
It’s like it’s not enough that you deal with all the technical shit, updating to new versions, checking shit out from GitHub, running builds, paying for the goddamn thing, then you are also responsible for babysitting content? Fuck that. Unless you have a good group of mods/admins it is really difficult to do.
That’s why you either sell your users to the advertisers or charge a monthly subscription. Free internet doesn’t work.
The reality of hosting reddit 2.0 is finally starting to sink in.
I can do all of the above, except for police content.
And Reddit of course had unpaid mods to do that.
So like I say, it can be done, you just need the right team of mods/admins for your own server.
Cool, you and your 5 buddies have a great time. Some of us would like to see a viable alternative to reddit who respects privacy, and doesn’t crash every other day.
Fediverse is going to be known as a kiddie porn haven with the level of professionalism and maturity they have with the major servers.
I have yet to see a single problem with Lemmy over months of daily use. An instance may have crashed in that time but I didn’t notice not seeing certain instances when scrolling, and I don’t seek out particular communities. Helps that I’m hosted on a less popular instance, and the lemmy.ca admins seem to run a tight ship.
I block a couple of communities a day, but that seems to be expected. I also haven’t seen any kiddie porn.
Less discussion than Reddit, and less specific communities, but that’s been easy to forgive because well, fuck Reddit.
If an alternative pops up at some point, I’ll be sure to give it a try. Lemmy is doing just fine for me.
keep in mind that this does not apply to every country in the world.
I don’t know what’s going on and I’m afraid of clicking the link…
It’s an admin post talking about why some images are broken
Can I ask what the acronym means?
I’m too paranoid to do an internet search to figure it out, but I have a hunch.
I didn’t know either but I took one for the team, regrettably. Child Sexual Abuse Material.
When did the term change from CP to CSAM? Seems like everyone changed overnight.
Iirc the reason it changed was because it’s a more accurate description of what the material contains, and because actual pornography is supposed to be consentual by nature, even when it’s depicting an imitation of a non-consensual act. However, kids are incapable of consenting. Saying that videos of them is porn feels too much like it puts it on the same level as adult porn, when they’re not at all the same. If someone released a video of someone being raped I think most people would consider it distasteful to call a real rape video “pornography”.
I can understand that reasoning tbh.
Makes sense, and it’s also a more unique acronym
Damn. I guessed it was something like that.
That’s so disgusting, some fuckers are sick.
Thanks for replying!
It’s horrific. :(
Thanks, I also looked it up and for mostly links about the Belgian government login.
That’s because “C-SAM” sounds like “sesame” in French.
I thought about hosting my own instance, but now I’m definitely not…
I thought the worst that could happen was being ignored… apparently not.
you could host your own instance and just not have new users sign up, by keeping registration private.
But if you federate with an instance that gets the material, then you will also get it.
This is what I’m thinking of doing. Lets me host my own content and not rely on other instances to stay alive.
What does CSAM exactly mean? (I understand the point of the meme completely just never heard of such abbreviation.
“Child sexual abuse material”
Ohh, I though the guy just misspelled scam :b
It’s child porn, and as horrifying as you’ve been told it is. Some scumbag trolls were posting it on lemmy.world’s memes sub and so .world finally decided to close open signups.
Bullshit, child porn is “cp”. CSAM means Child Sexual Abuse Material
That’s absurd. People aren’t stupid. We’re capable of understanding context and playing semantical games with something so serious is quite honestly pretty offensive.
What would you say is the difference? I feel like the terms are interchangeable. The comment you replied to didn’t give the exact abbreviation but it gave the essence of what is meant by the picture.
By OC trying to imply a difference, one could be led to assume that OC believes there is some part of the illegal material that they do not consider abuse.
I vehemently disagree with that line of thinking. It is abuse, and that is why it is illegal.
Who in their right mind thinks calling CP is validating it in any way? Just because some morons decided to make a politically correct term for it doesn’t change what it is.
The politically correct term CSAM is to differentiate it from ordinary porn which is legal and at least somewhat socially acceptable and ensure that people understand that when children are involved, it is always abusive. The terms mean the same thing, but being precise with language is important.
People already understand that. 🤦
When did we switch to that instead of CP?
Porn is a legal thing that normal people enjoy. The term CSAM takes a stance that it is always abuse. I think they are basically interchangeable but CSAM is the currently preferred term.
But it is always abuse regardless of the term, so a new term is wildly unnecessary
Sometimes, terms need changing to separate it from something else. Porn in itself is legal and fine. When adding children in the mix it’s easy to get caught up in the porn part of the discussion rather than the child part.
Separating the terms puts the focus more on the child abuse part.
I’ve literally not once seen anyone “get caught up in the porn part” what
Why are you opposed to using terms that are accurate?
Have you been paying attention to the debate at all?
Many bills in the US have been proposed to mitigate child porn by just targeting porn in general.
a) “CP” is a very online phrase that I imagine hasn’t permeated popular culture for good reason
b) calling it “pornography” is tacitly implying it is arousing and/or serves a purpose, by calling it “abuse material” you remove any positive connotations
Ah, makes sense now.
I think being more specific is also a good thing. Two letter acronyms are too broad. As CSAM, it’s unambiguous what it refers to. But CP means many things. Eg, in software dev, it’s often used for “control plane”. Some video games (eg, Pokemon Go) use it for “combat power”. I think ESO used it as “champion points” (though might have been a different MMO).
So why not disable images, including thumbnails? Wouldn’t that solve it? Imgur was created because reddit didn’t host images.
