Eh I can’t give up cheese
But killing cows does suck, they’re cool. Like big cowy dogs.
I’m drunk, I apologize.
But also life is just random coincidence and we’re probably the only place it exists and it seems like everything is out to get everything else already. Fuckers can’t eat me, I’ll eat them. I’m coming for you, flesh eating bacteria. I have teeth. They’re real creepy. Like bones in my face made to chew things. FACE BONES.
Go order some nutritional yeast and use it to make vegan cheese. You can use it directly on things like you would use parmesan, or use it to make cheeses similar to nacho cheese, or mac and cheese. This is one of those things like MSG where all the snack food companies already know about it and are using it to great effect in the products you’re already eating.
No animals are coming for you and you don’t have to eat them either.
But my face bones
They’ll chew carrots just fine yep.
But the yeast, it says deactivated, so it’s dead yeast, so we kill tons of yeast and feast upon their corpses.
TBH it sounds metal af so I am in.
Knock yourself out
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I tried for a while to make those small changes, but I always found it too hard to do, until I finally just decided to cut out all animal products one night, and I never really went back.
I think the difference was how I framed it, mentally. I always saw it as an act of willpower to not eat animal products, like I have to overcome my cravings in the same way I would if I was cutting calories. But quitting animal products altogether allowed me to frame it differently for myself – instead of telling myself “I shouldn’t eat this”, I can just say “I don’t eat this.” Like, it’s not on the table as something I have to consider. I don’t even have to recognize animal products as food.
Maybe if you cut things out one at a time you could do a similar thing. Though one problem is that it’s a series of changes and commitments you have to make, instead of just one thing. I feel like that could be harder, depending on who you are.
- Cut out meat from large animals that have the most environmental impact
- Work your way down from number 2 until all you eat is poultry
On the other hand cutting out smaller animals first would have a bigger impact on suffering because you need more beings for the same amount of meat. So I’d just say to just reduce meat, whichever is easier first.
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It doesn’t. What makes it easy is making an emotional connection with animals and engaging your empathy. When you finally recognize on an emotional level what you have been working so hard maintain denial over all your life, it changes EVERYTHING. You can no more eat a hamburger than you could rip the face off a child.
Of course, empathy HURTS. Experiencing the suffering that everyone thoughtlessly inflicts on animals is fucking AGONY. That’s the real reason people don’t fucking do it. They’re cowards.
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I mean plants do seem to also feel some sort of pain, not exactly like animals do, but at least something. Time to engage empathy for that as well? It’s impossible to not kill something for survival, that’s why humans have the ability to turn off empathy for life they have to end.
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But yeah yeah yeah. Another plants rights activist. Funny how you guys always show up when animal rights are discussed, and NEVER ANY OTHER FUCKING TIME.
If you believe that plants suffer, then you should eat plants, because it takes TEN TIMES MORE FUCKING PLANTS to raise livestock. So go vegan, you fucking plants right activist.
You cannot have empathy for plants. You can project feelings over plants, but you cannot have empathy for them. Do you even know what the word means? I mean, I’m sure you do deep down, but you’re not allowing yourself to connect with thoughts like that, because they hurt and you’re a coward.
I went vegetarian about 9 years ago and went vegan about 1.5 years ago. Honestly I think anyone can go vegetarian overnight. It wasn’t that hard 9 years ago and it’s even easier now with all the fancy mock meats and stuff and greater ability to get plant-based options at restaurants etc. YouTube has endless videos on plant-based cooking and there are tons of vegan/plant-based cookbooks for that too.
To people who are flirting with veganism for ethical reasons, hear me out: would you treat dogfighting, cockfighting, or committing crimes against other people in the same “baby steps” manner that some people endorse with converting to a plant-based diet? Either you think dogfighting (watching animals be harmed for your own pleasure) is bad, or you don’t. Either you think killing animals and subjecting them to suffering needlessly for your own taste pleasure is bad, or you don’t. If you do think it’s bad, put your money where your mouth is and quit.
The biggest hurdle from me going vegan was I thought it would be difficult, so I did something similar. Turns out, however, that it’s SUPER EASY to cut out all meat and dairy. Seriously it blew my mind. Just look up a couple recipes, make sure you read ingredient lists on products, and you’re done. That’s all it takes.
The key is to just commit. Jump off the high board and take the plunge. Sure the water may shock you at first but you’ll quickly adapt. Quicker than you’d expect.
Weirdest thing to me about this comments section is that I realised I might like Hexbears
sadly true…
A friend told me that she asked her father to watch a vid for her bday. He agreed and converted after seeing it. For this reason, I cowardly avoid seeking out such material (I love meat). I know that I should switch. I’m just selfish enough not to.
That’s fucked up and you should be revolted with yourself for admitting it.
You should really just stop lying to yourself and have a look at what it really is you “love”.
Are you implying anyone who eats meat loves animal cruelty?
No, we just like eating meat. It’s really not that deep
No, I don’t. I think most people are not enjoying cruelty at all. I’m implying that they’re just pretending they were aware of the cruelty they are actually responsible for. While in reality they have no idea.
Edit: Sorry, I thought you were the original commentor. No idea what point of view you have here.
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One of what? Self aware people? Whose actions are aligned with their morals?
Damn, you just philosophically murdered them.
The comments responding to you are pretty unnecessarily hostile, but I personally get where you’re coming from. I personally think it’s best to watch the thing so that you can be best informed, even if it’s hard to do. Not even because of veganism being ethical, but because the fear of the unknown is a lot scarier than any documentary could be, IMO. Information is power, and having information (even distressing information) is empowerment.
Also, I loved meat too, but when I went vegan, I never really missed it. I was pretty worried about missing certain foods (one was sushi), but that never really happened to me.
I didn’t even watch the videos. I just saw a video of someone’s pet cow who was curled up in a little girl’s lap getting a scratch after having been snuck into the porch by the kid, and that was enough. One day the light just goes on.
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Is it an oreo?
To be fair, I feel like there’s a lot of videos that would traumatize you if you watched them, not just ones related to meat. Sure there’s traumatizing videos you should watch, but actively seeking that stuff out seems like no way to live.
If I was actively funding the abhorrent things in those videos, you’d be well within your right to tell me to stop, or at the very least insist I watch them.
Ok, but it’s about something people actively and blindly participate and fund. Not just folks watching traumatizing videos for fun.
Everyone is like “Yeah I know it’s bad.” But they still actively refuse to acknowledge just how bad it really is.
I feel like many have detached themselves way too much to what the realities of life are. We should be watching people and animals die because we are now so sheltered from things that we were born into as a species, that every animal other than us experience we have become sensitized to it. Trauma and violence are part of being a living being and I think it has distorted our perspective and appreciation for living. You won’t see many people who deal with daily violence commit suicide because they’re in survival mode which should be the norm for anything that is living. It changes your baseline for thise experiences. Lows might be very low but tolerable and highs will be extreme because something as mundane as a day without having to chase down a deer and almost get killed by a lion is going to be the most exhilarating day of your life. Veganism is the result of our easy low risk existence and it makes us less adventurous and a lot less likely to make it into space. Space vegans will never be a thing.
Dude, i was there.
Not vegan, but I can definitely agree factory farms are vastly underregulated
Economic forces are always going to welfare wash and treat these poor sentient beings solely based on the bottom line instead of their actual wellbeing. Please don’t increase demand for their childrens and grandchildrens suffering.
Not vegan
Why?
50% personal convenience, 50% feeling like I should prioritize human suffering like homelessness and sweatshops first
It’s cheaper to eat vegan food than animals. Use the money you save on groceries to fix homelessness and sweatshops.
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You don’t need to replace like for like - not every meal needs a meat replacement. My point is that to get all the nutrients you need to live and thrive, vegan diets are cheaper.
How does eating meat and dairy help homelessness and sweatshops.
cuz meat is delicious
I feel like that sign is a bit alienating, which is unfortunate because it perpetuates the idea that vegans are holier than thou. As a person that (i think) understands the basic reasoning behind veganism (intentional non-participation in animal exploitation and cruelty?) i wish that more people would consider it. Hey, maybe that should be a sign
This is something that I often think about in connection with veganism.
I can sit down and watch a video about how vegetables are produced. It might be boring, but I could watch it.
Most carnists, on the other hand, can’t sit and watch how hamburger, sausage, cheese, etc. is produced. For them to enjoy that food, they have to ignore all the suffering behind it.
I don’t think many people are bothered by cheese making videos, the basic gist is dumping enzymes into milk to separate the water from the fat, then the fatty components are sometimes aged to develop flavor. The enzymes are produced by bacteria these days, so it’s not like it involves a gory butchering step.
I’m talking about forcibly impregnating (i.e. raping) the cow, which is required to keep her pregnant so that she keeps producing milk. And then taking her calf away from her when they’re born.
Isn’t “I’m for the intentional non-participation in animal exploitation and cruelty” just a consequence of “I saw the videos you refuse to watch”, hence similarly alienating and holier than thou?
Maybe even more so. “I can’t continue because I saw a video” could be an unreflected emotional statement, whereas yours sounds like a moral argument.
Highlighting contradictions in people’s beliefs is good, actually. If they choose to be willfully ignorant of cruelty while reaping the benefits, then they’re not going to face that contradiction from you asking nicely while carefully avoiding any implication that they might be doing something wrong. Rather, it’s the opposite - you want to make it as difficult as possible for them to ignore what they’re doing. But of course, since they are trying to remain ignorant, it can be expected that they will react with hostility when you call attention to it, no matter how nice and polite you are about it. The only way to avoid provoking such a response is by allowing them to keep the cruelty out of sight and out of mind, in which case they will have little motivation to go vegan and you’ve rendered yourself useless.
People who have neither been convinced nor convinced others of veganism love to offer their perspective on how we can be more convincing which invariably seems to consist of defanging our criticism and going out of our way to avoid making people to confront the cruel realities caused by their actions.
Or maybe getting people uncomfortable and forced to think about it, and actively face the dissonance is effective. Maybe they get mad and confrontational, but then you have to ask why.
Why are you doing something whose moral implications are making you uncomfortable?
Same thing goes for shit like buying stuff made by people in horrible working conditions. Maybe we shouldn’t feel as if we are entitled to being comfortable all the time, especially when we do so at the expense of others. What if it was you in the place of the worker or animal? Are you okay with continuing on like this?
And it makes people uncomfortable because it makes them see themselves as a bad person. But hey, maybe you should feel uncomfortable if you are doing something you yourself consider bad.
I mean vegans are welcome to be vegan. If you want you can mention these things if you think they might matter to someone but in the end what is important to a vegan isn’t going to be important to other people and that’s fine. In the end suffering is life and we all are made to suffer so that someone else can exploit us. The only difference with meat is that it’s nutritious and something our body makes good use of. Humans on the other hand are exploited so that the privileged can continue to be privileged.
People have been saying that for decades. It doesn’t work. I never understood the concept of “protests shouldn’t make me feel uncomfortable or inconvenience me.” That kind of undercuts the purpose of a protest and trying to spread a message. If you make it so it’s easy to ignore, it doesn’t work. Without fail there’s always the “ugh, someone who tries to make me feel bad about torturing and killing animals is simply not going to convince me to do otherwise.” It’s such a shitty excuse.
Yeah, I can see how being an unrepentant dildo is really winning people over to the cause!
Are you aware of the backfire effect? https://effectiviology.com/backfire-effect-facts-dont-change-minds/
I’m generally not confrontational and honestly usually tell people to try their best, but I get tired of people coming to a vegan community and being assholes.
The excuses are always weak because no is trying to convince you or even themselves. They’re politely telling you to fuck off because your type is known for being confrontational and they don’t want to be dragged into an argument.
You’re trying to tell people to cut off the majority of their food supply. That’s an idea that is frankly absurd for most people and it’s a little annoying that egoactivist vegans haven’t taken the hint.
so just as a thought experiment, if you saw what was essentially a modern day holocaust, how would you go about convincing people that willfully(or through lack of knowledge) ignore it? Would you just say "oh I’d better not cause a scene, that would be really egotistical of me "? also cut change != cut off, there are vegan options for a huge range of palates, we are just so used to the current meat diet that anything else feels alien, despite other societies doing fine with these diets.
prey animals != humans; prey animals < predator animals
If you have a problem with that, idk lecture a lion or something.
We put more animals through factory farms per year than any other animal kills, and it’s not even close. https://animalclock.org/
humans have the ability to reason and empathize, and do not need to kill to survive, all things a lion or any other predator animal cannot do. Humans generally agree might makes right is not acceptable for a society, except when it comes to our food apparently.
It sucks that lions have to kill other animals. If I had the ability to convince them of that and provide them with an alternative besides death I would. You are not a lion though so I can try to convince you, and lions do a lot of other things you would not choose to emulate.
It’s also a false equivalency. What lions do is nothing compared to the enslavement and torture that happens at an unfathomable scale in animal ag. The brutality of nature is overstated in most human narratives.
TBH, I’d rather live in a meat farm and then get a bolt shoved through my skull than get fucking eaten alive even if one lasts vastly longer than the other. And living in a capitalist society, I’m already halfway there.
Which is what happens to wild prey animals if they aren’t dying from some horrible parasite or didn’t get impaled by a rutting bull.
The reason I mentioned wild vs livestock life is because I think people are fooling themselves when they believe the average animal who lives in the wild has a worse life than the average animal in the ag industry. You are choosing to focus on the moments before death which is just a fraction of what an animal experiences, and is assisted by natural endorphins. A life of persistent confinement, abuse, and building trauma is worse than most pain imaginable, I’d rather be flayed alive when my time comes than have to live as a typical industry pig does for even a few months.
And lets not act like livestock are even afforded a quick death, often being shipped to a remote site and corralled into a place full of the smells, sounds, and sights of death. Working in slaughterhouses often causes humans trauma and they aren’t even the ones on the chopping block. And that’s if you’re lucky, most pigs are collectively slaughtered in gas chambers.
Enough of what was supposed to be an aside though. The point is that you can make a choice to not participate in a system of enslavement, torture, and killing. It has nothing to do with what lions do, and you wouldn’t use lions to justify other awful behavior.
Even hunting is wrong. Even though it doesn’t bring all of the terrible living conditions from animal ag, it’s still ending lives that you don’t have to. That’s really the point, we have a choice, so we have a moral obligation. Taking a life when it isn’t necessary for survival is wrong in most cases.
no is trying to convince you or even themselves
You came to a vegan community and insulted them. Are you fucking dense? You’re being confrontational.
I gave you an explanation as to why the excuses are weak. As well as letting you know it’s not a messaging problem, we’re just not going to do what you say no matter what you want.
That’s hardly an insult, unless reading my comment forced you to a sudden realization that you aren’t the moral center of the universe. Then sorry I guess. If you don’t want to hear from meat eaters maybe don’t fucking lecture us?
Lecture you? In a vegan community? Are you dense? What do you expect to hear here? And I told you why your supposed claim was full of shit. And you came up with a bunch of other well-worn bullshit as to why it was ok for it to be shit.
Act like an ass about veganism in a vegan community and then your shocked when someone gets insulted. Your either a troll or lack any social skills whatsoever because your inability to see why that’s a shitty move is telling.
There’s no need to continue this. You’re either a troll or an idiot. I ignore those folks.
The main post is lecturing meat eaters, in a very condescending way. Just in case your b12 deficiency made you forget that. The real tragedy is there’s no satisfactory result when I google “strongest word in the english language for stupid.” But judging my intelligence when you’re at the bottom of the totem pole is kind of funny.
That’s an insult, see the difference?
You are failing then. Because most people are barely getting by and having holier than thou people trying to belittle them just means they are going to view the movement as a bunch of self righteous tools.
I’ve seen those videos, a lot of them. I still choose to eat meat. I totally disagree with the implication that anyone who eats meat is being willfully ignorant of evidence that would convert them.
I think it’s worse to admit that you’re fine with inflicting that kind of pain on animals and still enjoy the end result. There’s a reason they tell parents to be wary of kids who enjoy torture. You’re just a step below that.
When in a series there is a serial killer it’s always the person who enjoyed to torture animals as kid. Take a guess why.
Media likes to play with stereotypes and deliver a story which seems to make sense. It’s not a field study on human psychology.
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If you’re trying to make a comparison, it makes no sense at all.
Holy shit, you are so delusional and full of yourself. You sound like prepubescent teenagers on Xbox Live that call people “pathetic” every chance they get. 💀💀 Get over yourself.
So then why do you eat meat? Are you just a selfish narcissist who thinks their pleasure is more important than anything else? Or what is it?
Because scientific evidence hates you.
Are you just a selfish narcissist who thinks their pleasure is more important than anything else?
I’ve been a vegan for almost a decade, and I’ve finally started to see how self-entitled carnists are. How I used to be. I thought that I was entitled to the bodies of other living, sentient beings.
Holier than thou.
Maybe you should consider the possibility that some people in some aspects of life really are holier than thou and you could learn from them. Imagine someone pointing out to a serial killer how not killing is more moral and the killer answers with “Holier than thou.”. Would this be a good comeback?
This is not an equivalent situation, being vegan or vegetarian does not make you legitimately “holier than thou”. It is not a virtuous enough decision to be “holier” than the average person, and eating meat is not a bad enough action to be comparable to being a serial killer.
Just because it is not comparable to a serial killer does not mean that it’s not bad enough to warrant a holier label. How do you justify killing and torturing an animal just for taste pleasure?
I dont kill or torture animals, I support an industry that does by buying the products they create. That is not bad enough of an action for you to be holier.
Of course I’m not a ‘selfish narcissicist who thinks their pleasure is more important than anything else’, that’s total hyperbole (and the fact you exaggerated the fuck out of something doesn’t make anyone think you’re more intelligent or your point holds more weight).
I will answer you, but my reasoning really doesn’t matter. For me its a combination of the lack of impact I as an individual consumer can have on that industry, and the negative affects veganism can take on your nutrition.
Also, there is ZERO scientific evidence that humans should not eat meat. Unless you’re trying to say those videos are “scientific evidence” that I should be vegan, in which case I think you have psychosis.
If every one went vegan like vegans do, then there absolutely wouldn’t be a lack of impact, what a bizzare thing to suggest?
If everyone acts like you and goes “ah well, I can’t change anything”, that flawed “logic” can be used to commit any number of atrocities.
I do like that “scientific evidence” argument though. Like, “sorry judge there’s no scientific paper decrying killing people with a car so I did it”. You don’t need a scientist to tell you to do an objectively good thing - in this case stopping the unnecessary culling of sentient life for your tastebuds.
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I understand that fully, trust me, but I only control my own actions. I do not care enough about the issues surrounding meat production to take that action knowing I will not enact any change. If I cared enough about those issues, I wouldn’t care if anyone else followed. (As you have).
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That logic only applies on an individual basis, and has to be weighed against how much you care about something.
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I feel you have my point confused, you think I said: “There is ZERO scientific evidence that humans abstaining from eating meat would have a positive impact on our world.”
I said: “There is ZERO scientific evidence humans should not eat meat.”
What do you mean you’ll have no impact?? You realised for every piece of meat you don’t eat, that’s less demand for an animal to be killed right? Not to mention the significant reduction in carbon emissions. That’s not including the change you impart on others. I was convinced to go vegan, and I’ve convinced others as well.
Your first point is just straight out wrong. Do you vote? Or is the fact your vote doesn’t single handedly decide the election enough to dissuade? Your logic could be used by a murderer to go “well, there’s murder in the world that I can’t stop, so I might as well keep murdering!”. Very very broken logic.
I agree with you the only argument against veganism is “I don’t care”. But then you must accept you are a person who knowingly commits bas deeds, deeds you could easily stop today, but choose not to out of greed.
And your third point is just weird? If you accept that scientific discourse agreed abstaining from meat has a worldly positive impact, isn’t that enough? Or is the scientifically supported increase in life expectancy associated with veganism not enough?
I choose not to because I do not care enough to make that decision when it will have no impact. Even if my vote has no impact, I care much more about who gets elected.
I care much more about whether humans should dietarily eat meat than whether abstaining from eating it has monetary or carbon benefits.
so if I’m a ceo trying to not waste money, and my margin for acceptable wasted product is 90% sold 10% unsold, even one person worth of lost sales of meat has a definite possibility of making me buy less next shipment. Even if they’re buying it by the giant crate, if I’m buying meat crates according to a formula, your 1 purchase could be the one that sways me for or against buying another. Do that over the course of 10 years and this turns from a possibility to essentially guaranteed.
I dont care enough to make that small of an impact.
While I get this, maybe it’s better to look at it as the individual animals you’re saving. Red cross members know there are hundreds of millions of lives they can’t save, and the world should change to where these people don’t need the help, but they’re still saving the life of someone here and now. A cow is maybe “less” than a human life, but you’re saving them a lifetime of suffering.
Even just reducing meat to where it’s not a huge annoyance can still make a big difference.
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I can totally see the individual impact argument. Still personally I think if everyone thinks this way, nothing’s gonna change. On the other hand if a sufficient amount of people tries it’s gonna change everything. We just need to be enough individuals to be a movement.
Then again “ZERO scientific evidence”: yeah just fuck yourself. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/20/vegan-diet-cuts-environmental-damage-climate-heating-emissions-study There are several studies showing that we could easily tackle the global hunger crisis, which will only worsen in the next years by going vegan. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets And that’s just one example of “scientific evidence that humans should not eat meat.”
Neither of those links show any evidence as to why humans should not eat meat. They show evidence as to why humans eating meat could assist in dealing with the effects of climate change, but that is not the same claim.
Scientific evidence is unbiased, you hate them.
I’m pretty sure the vast majority of adult meat eaters have seen multiple videos and still continue to eat meat. Very few have actionable ability to directly stop the suffering so they then stop caring. One person cutting down on red meat will never be enough until there’s enough lab grown meat and/or delicious FakeMeat alternatives to satiate western society at large. We still a long ways away from that.
Until then, vote for people who want to cut down on brutal industrial practices.
One person cutting down on red meat will never be enough
You could use that argument to invalidate voting or any boycott. “Why should I vote? My one vote won’t change anything.” The truth is, you aren’t one person. There are many vegans.
But even one person can do quite a bit. I’ve influenced my friends to eat less meat. When we go out to eat, if they want to include me, we’ll go to s vegan-friendly restaurant.
You could use that argument to invalidate voting or any boycott
The difference being that there will never be enough vegans to change large-AG practices until the reasons I’ve stated above. There is a non-zero hit to their bottom line, sure, but Veganism will never be mainstream until healthy and tasty alternatives to meat is viable, tasty, and cheap.
The perpetual shift to healthier lifestyles through lab grown and alternative meats are an inevitability for any prospering/utopian civilization. The technology and culture to get there requires A LOT though.
The world and it’s inhabitants can get fucked because technology will save us? I could think robots are inevitably going to replace slaves but that does not justify me keeping a slave in the present.
The actual difference is: When you vote, your one vote literally does nothing unless your candidate then wins by exactly one vote. The only power your vote has is as part of the collective vote.
But when you go vegan, your own single choice changes a lot, even without taking into account the collective choices of others:
It saves the lives of hundreds or thousands of animals over your lifetime cause they don’t get eaten by you.
It is very actionable to vote with their wallet and mouth and not eat meat. The “can’t save them all, so why bother”-argument is really sad. I don’t think most people would apply that logic, if they saw a child in distress, because so many children die every day of preventable causes. Every sentient being matter.
The difference being you’re not going to stop large agricultural practices with it.
You’re going to stop them by voting, going into office yourself, or scientific advancement.
The rest is just saving your own conscience. What other people do with their bodies is none of your business.
Animals are the most vulnerable among us. They literally cannot fight for themselves because humans are infinitely more powerful than them. So vegans try to do their best to stand up for animals, including posting content that makes others uncomfortable and hopefully become introspective about their own behavior.
https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/418783/When-somebody-asks-why-you-re-a-vegan#entry-comment-2094354
If people aren’t buying factory farmed animal products, the agricultural industry wouldn’t still be using awful practices. The supply and demand chain is complicated and the agricultural industry can choose different levers than lowering production, but those different levers would result in lower profit either for example by higher advertisement spending or lowering prices. Over time with a sustained vegan effect, the market would correct itself, since companies hate losing money and will pursue more profitable alternatives, and fewer animals would be slaughtered.
Your own wallet is a very large vote. But voting in elections or advocating for change in other ways are of course also very important. They shouldn’t exclude each other.
People are allowed to do with their body as it pleases, as long as they don’t hurt anyone. There are quite a few scenarios, where I don’t think you would agree with your own statement.
Does your impact have to be massive for you to act? me not throwing trash out the window isn’t going to stop millions of others from doing it, but my impact is still there (ex:go vegan for a year, and your local grocery/fast food place/etc sees a reduction in meat sales and orders 0.001% less for their next shipment)
Right. It’s also the right and good thing to do and you should be commended for it. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
People who eat meat know it can be healthy and terrible for your diet. The same way any other foodstuff is. They also know you’re killing animals, often in terrible conditions. If you go through life caring about everything that has ethical dilemmas though, you wouldn’t be using microprocessors, any clothing that wasn’t made and grown by yourself, etc. You DEFINITELY wouldn’t be on the internet lol. The Good Place had a wonderful look on going through that moral extreme.
Even going the living healthier route, the bigger issue is ultra/processed foods.
Veganism equating boycotting the meat industry is great for your mental, but does a basically non-zero hit to their margins in actuality. People advocating, voting, and being vocal are what makes the small then large changes to shift the food industry paradigm to non-sentient meat options. The people smart enough to make real efforts into alternatives are doing so. Yeah, you want to participate too and feel like you’re doing something, and you are, but let’s not pretend it’s not for your own mental benefit. Both through how you feel by advocating for animals that can’t help themselves, and by not participating directly in something you don’t like as well.
so slightly irrelevant since I assume you’re speaking generally but, have used the same clothes/computer/phone, for ~10 years, not to say I’m living with the bare necessities but I do try to limit those as well.
I do agree it’s impossible to be 100% moral in modern society and do harm to no one, but paying $200 every 10 years to a company that far down the line has poor labor practices (without my money these people have no job so even this is debatable), when I essentially can not participate in society without doing these smaller harms, seems to me leagues different.
With meat, you are as closely as possible saying with your wallet “please raise and kill more of this animal as your company does now” while knowing many suppliers either nearly torture the animals they raise, or raise/kill them in really inhumane ways. If you’re still eating meat, you are the direct cause of several animals living that terrible life. I can also exist in society with an inconvenience of not eating meat, whereas I can’t without shoes, a phone, a computer for work, etc
What happens If you later see a video of a someone eating a hamburger?
All videos are 100% factual, but some offer “alternative facts.” /s
Nothing? What the fuck are you even talking about?
If videos is all it took to change people’s minds then I’d be drowning in threesomes after showing my gf porn.
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So very brave, contrarian, and edgy.
I will eat you.
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A lot of cruelty under capitalism is publicly permitted because people don’t see how the metaphorical sausage is made.
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You’re so brave and edgy and contrarian.
Don’t waste time on pizza slicers. They’re all edge and have no point.
Dunking them for a line at a time is a small price to pay to watch the nazis thrash and screech and fling their own shit.
So, where does that put children of migrant workers on your tiered morality list? Their parents pick your vegetables, and often so do they instead of going to school (if they even have school as an option). I’m genuinely curious.
edit: Ah, yes, the silent outrage of drive-by downvoting rather than making the effort to engage in mature discourse. Color me surprised.
Animals eat a significant chunk of the plant calories we grow, you know.
The food that animals eat from “calories we grow” is
notvery rarely hand-picked, and so your statement is not relevant in this example, nor helpful in answering my question.Most food is harvested by machines
The point is that less animals = less food needed. And less people need to grow food
And if some people still need to hand harvest food, well, then that’s not an engineering problem, but a political one. And either way irrelevant to your statement, because it was then never about the food needed anyway.
How very convenient for your argument. Typical vegan. Fuck, this whole thread is juvenile. This species is doomed. 😘
“How convenient that reality is aligned with your argument”
?
Animals eat food, too. If you eat meat, you’re actually creating more demand for crops than you would if you ate the crops directly. Furthermore, migrant workers also work on animal farms, in slaughterhouses, etc. I hear it’s not always great.
I guess what I’m saying is, I’m fairly sure that going vegan helps both animals and the children of migrant workers.
One caveat is that I’m assuming you’d eat the same classes of crops that an animal would, namely things like corn and grains. But honestly that sounds about right for most people, vegans included. Many vegans eat a lot of processed shit too lol. (me included)
Edit: I should add that the most commonly suggested vegan diet that I’ve heard from other vegans is to have rice and lentils as your staple foods. I’m fairly sure those aren’t typically harvested by hand, but I could be wrong.
You’re trying to draw a moral equivalence between being a migrant farm worker and being tortured, raped, and killed. I’m genuinely at a loss for words.
I was asking a sincere question, to be frank, but I can see that’s not welcome among your peers here. If I was drawing any moral equivalence though, it would be between said “migrant farm worker” 's inability to provide for their very human child in any way that resembles stability much less any chance to escape the exploitive cycle of our system and an animal “being tortured” “and killed”. (I’m not aware of any food product that first rapes the animals, fyi.)
I was asking a sincere question, to be frank, but I can see that’s not welcome among your peers here.
I thought that it was a sincere question. That’s why I was at a loss for words.
(I’m not aware of any food product that first rapes the animals, fyi.)
Dairy. Cows have to be kept pregnant so that they keep producing milk.
I can’t tell if you’re joking or…
