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Don’t you just love the digital age? -_-
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I understand your point, but they could also just make it more privacy friendly to the consumer. We don’t want to feel like we’re being used against our will even if we “agreed” to the terms of service.
yeah idk why all electrical appliances need to be smart, didn’t even want that in the first place
I have to be smart so that they can spy on you. Duh!
/s
And now LG wants to sell you a subscription on top of that 💀
I do love the digital age and modern tech, but I understand many of the privacy concerns.
I mean there are some things that just shouldn’t be adapted into the digital world. I wouldn’t say cars are one of them, but many features most likely aren’t even being used in said vehicle by the owner.
I got an email from OnStar the other day saying it contacted my bank and updated my card info because I had gotten an old card and hadn’t updated the info, I don’t pay for OnStar but the dealership MAKES you set it up even if you don’t use it.
How the fuck are they allowed to contact my bank and get information like that? Weirded my TF out to say the least.
I’m not sure when you purchased your vehicle, but when I purchased my vehicle Dec 2022 I had to do that OnStar setup crap as well and just denied giving them any information. They said I wouldn’t be able to get this or that but I didn’t care so they didn’t get that information. It took about 15 minutes with the person on the other side being a bit confused but just gave up when I said it the like 5th time.
Either way they don’t need that information at any time unless you want their free trials that are almost never worth it.
Yeah, I’d walk away from a sale before agreeing to that crap, even if they did make it mandatory.
Credit cards have actually been doing that for years. It’s a feature for recurring payments to reduce the amount of trouble users had when their CC number was compromised or it expired.
Yeah, it sucks too. A couple years ago I was trying to get out of a Sirius Satellite subscription I had opted into during the height of the rony 'rona.
Instead of sitting on the phone with CSRs for hours on end while they pass me around and offer me incentives to stay, I thought I’d be smart and report that my credit card was lost. (At the time you couldn’t disenroll online, that changed I happily found out a few months ago)
Joke was on me though. Sirius updated my new card info, and I was without a credit card for ~8 days.
By design and commonly accepted on recurring payments. Not even remotely new or connected with OnStar.
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Authorizations are different from CC details.
You can call a bank and cancel an authorization without canceling a card.
I don’t pay for OnStar but the dealership MAKES you set it up even if you don’t use it.
I have never heard that. When did they start doing that?
They did that to me. I specifically gave them a card I knew was going to expire before the trial period was over and they got the new information anyway.
If I remember correctly, it’s a “feature” the credit card companies have so your subscriptions don’t lapse.
How is that fucking legal?
This is more based on authorization vs CC details. It’s much safer for a company than holding onto credit card numbers. Creating a subscriptions generates an authorization code which is good for the account, not just a specific card number. Revoking that authorization is a separate call to the bank rather than just having a credit card replaced.
That authorization shouldn’t be indefinite either though. After three years of no activity and a card expiring, OnStar was still able to make a charge to renew that trial subscription.
And looking around the web, there are a few stories from that 2016 time frame to indicate that it was a new-ish, or at least not well known, practice at the time.
Yeah and it’s very useful, looks like this place is just as bad with the kids as that other place.
If I want to keep a subscription going I’ll give them the new CC information myself. Like a responsible adult. Hard disagree on the usefullness.
Not sure what point you’re even trying to make about children and Reddit.
Are we really pretending that unsourced imgur screen shots are valid references?
…no? But I guess you’re pretending it’s not? I’m sorry I screenshotted something from the internet that didn’t have the source attached? It must be completely fake then?
Like, what?
I’ll find the source for you if it helps you sleep at night that the veracity of an internet sourced image is from the internet talking about that thing.
Honestly? I just find it amusing how bent out of shape you’re getting over the fact that people don’t like auto renewing subscriptions.
It’s like you work for some scammy subscription service that makes it impossible to cancel or something.
Damn I was absolutely the most average person for reddit. Even the quasi split ethnicity. But, Like apparently though a picture of Steve Huffman would actually be the average redditor… Explains a lot.
Also don’t agree with the downvotes on this; you provided a data source, so even if the screenshot was pretty stupid people are holding a grudge.
The fuck are you talking about?
The fact people here don’t even understand how credit cards work is a pretty big sign my guy….
The fact that you think it’s reasonable for literally anyone but you to give out your credit card details is a pretty big sign my guy
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Because banks don’t give out credit card details.
You created an authorization code which is independent from the credit card details. The authorization code doesn’t get revoked automatically when a card expires or a new card issued.
Jesus tap dancing christ. I understand the difference between CC + CCV + expiry date and an oauth token (or whatever protocol they’re using for identification and authentication). I’m saying that not expiring auth codes when new cards are issued is a security and privacy issue. Users should ideally be given a switch to opt in to behavior like that. It should not be the default.
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There are lots of situations you wouldn’t want your service to be cancelled, so it’s a useful feature is all we’re saying. People acting like it’s malice are hilarious and/or children.
And in those situations I will contact the vendor to give them updated information. I don’t find it useful when a free trial I haven’t thought about for three years suddenly charges me several hundred dollars.
Nobody ever said malice, but it’s a service that flies in the face of the whole concept of an expiration date.
Weirded my TF out to say the least.
Honestly that shouldn’t weird you out too much, that’s just a convenience feature. And yeah, I know, some people put quotes around the word convenience. But others actually just use the word as is, a convenience.
What should freak the hell out of you is when you and your significant other are in the car talking about buying a new pair of tennis shoes, and then that evening when you’re sitting at home YouTube shows you a commercial for tennis shoes, when you’ve never seen any ads for tennis shoes on YouTube before.
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I wonder what happens if you only have a single card with no money on it.
That sounds awfully convenient and OnStar saves lives, so…
The emergency features are free, they want you to pay for in-car wifi. You also cannot cancel online and have to cancel with a rep over the phone. The service itself is fine, but dealerships requiring you to sign up “even if you aren’t going to use it” isn’t .
Oh really?
One of the most expensive plans comes from OnStar, which charges $29.99 a month or $299.90 a year for its Safety & Security Plan after a free trial period. It’s the least expensive OnStar plan that includes automatic crash notification, which it calls Automatic Crash Response. OnStar says these subscription fees are necessary to pay for the resources used to operate the feature.
“Certain features and services, including Automatic Crash Response, require ongoing updates, network connectivity, staffed call centers, among other recurring costs to operate,” an OnStar spokesperson, Rita Kass-Shamoun, told CR.
Wish I had the money to even be able to drive one of these nightmare cars in the first place. Yay for being poor I guess!
Guess I’m happy my Toyota is the last model year that didn’t have a connection to the app that’s got privacy issues.
Thanks for linking this. Going to share it with some friends.
Does this apply to European cars as well? Do we need to start filing GDPR complaints against car manufacturers?
Hopefully, it will apply to anything with internet connectivity and your personal data.
I mean, read the article and especially some of the individual reviews. GDPR is all over the place.
As a TL;DR cars made for the EU market score much better than US models, but the devil is in the details. If you’ve got some time at hand, it’s a real eye-opener to go over their summary at the very least.
Do humans listen to what we say in our cars? Can I scar someone for life by describing kinks I find on the internet or saying stuff like “babe, pull over…the mechanical pencil lead just broke off in my penis”
On a more serious note, perhaps I will cover the tracking camera in my car. Didn’t want it, but it came with the stupid trim level of my car (makes sure you aren’t falling asleep on the road/distracted.)
We could all start playing a game where we pretend to be people interested in shit we have zero interest in. Make the data they want to sell useless with tons of red herrings and false positives. Like led-embedded tennis racket grips, shower head louffas, Donald Trump branded TP, pokemon themed professional grade tooling, camera turrets coming out of the roofs of SUVs, or canned air except it’s filled with CEO farts because consumers love sniffing them so much.
I assume this can only be collected when connecting your phone plus the app to the vehicle? You lose a lot of functionality if you don’t, but at least it would keep your data private?
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Many cars connect to the internet via cell, even if the owners didn’t specifically pay for that, and many times it can’t be disabled.
When my fiancé was shopping for a car a few years ago, I asked the salesperson “so how do you turn off connectivity?” while they were showing off the whiz-bang infotainment systems. Nobody could answer the question, and most didn’t understand why anyone would want to turn it off.
I’ve wanted aeroplane mode for a car since I was a kid.
It just means something different now.
I feel like the next question would be “Now where the antenna?” Seriously if I ever get a modern car im stripping out or smashing damn near half its features. I don’t need my car to connect to the fucking cellular network and I never will.
Most cars have a mobile antenna that connects to a cellular network to send/receive data, they can access it whenever they want but they want you to pay their overhead so they offer the phone app with the remote control options as incentive to cover their costs of collecting your data and as an added bonus to their profit.
Edit: It should be noted that the phone app also allows for even more information collection that they can sell for yet greater profit.
The phone helps get them more data, but they can gather plenty just from the car and its data connection.
The really fun question is - if you elect not to pay for the data plan for your car, will they still enable it anyways because they can make more money selling your information than it costs to maintain a cell contract for the vehicle?
The frustrating thing is that there’s no clear way to know exactly how much you’re exposing yourself with this. Even the article (and related links) don’t spell it out adequately (IMO).
For example, I just purchased a new(ish) 2022 Nissan. I don’t have the Nissan app on my phone and I don’t subscribe to any of their connectivity services. Is my data staying in the car or is it finding some conduit back to Nissan? Is connecting my phone to the console for music and maps opening me up to Nissan’s data collection? Is using bluetooth for music and hand-free calls exposing my data? Is there any way to know the specific avenues for data collection that present a risk and how can they be mitigated?
So you’re telling me that you pay tens of thousands and still pay with privacy
It’s the Microsoft business model taken to the extreme.
I want a free car with personalised ads!
there is a car that goes 10kmph every three days untill you watch a 30 second ad about an arthritis medication
With unfettered capitalism, we are always the product in some way.
const data = await fetch('/user/beancounter/data).json() console.log(data.hadSex) > falseYou’ve got an unmatched single quote.
car explodes
“dang it Tom. You had ONE job to check the code works reliably and you missed testing that part of the code!”
Uncaught TypeError: fetch(...).json is not a functiondamn
It’s days like today where I’m glad Infiniti hasn’t updated their shit since 2014.
Is there any recent car that doesn’t have some sort of privacy settings?
The more technology progresses in our ultracapitalist environment (and even some ultrasocialist ones like China), the more people are forced to become Luddite self-sustainable hermits in the middle of nowhere for their own good. It’s not even to not buy a car - even something as simple as taking a bus or a train or even a pair of shoes is poised to become a privacy nightmare sooner or later.
Public transit in my area already has cameras with facial recognition and tagging. It’s not even a good public transit system, too.
There is nothing socialist about China.
Its flag is red
Oh cool! So cars will be free now since the manufacturers are turning drivers into the product. Right? Right guys? Cars will be free?
They will be CaaS
That would be rentals
Or a lease
Didn’t Tesla and others already try this (and will probably keep pushing it)?
Things like monthly subscriptions for various car features working like seat warmers.
You’re thinking of BMW for the heated seats: https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature
And Toyota for being able to remote start your car with your keyfob. https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/12/22831105/toyota-subscription-remote-start-key-fob Which they later walked back when a lot of their customers pushed back on it: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/43636/toyota-reviewing-key-fob-remote-start-subscription-plan-after-massive-blowback
Tesla has some upgrades for a one time fee - like rear seat heaters and acceleration boost, and subscription ones - premium connectivity
CarS - cars are service
CarL - cats are liquid
It’s legitimately cool that buying a new car and having any self-respect whatsoever are mutually exclusive now.
Fuck cars.
lmao
