It’s more secure as in I can’t forget to not lock the door, since it auto-locks. Also I can’t lock myself out of the house if I leave my keys inside, which I have done in the past lol. As the other nerds in here have said, it probably won’t keep you any safer against people breaking in though, but I think of it in terms of convenience.
If there is no keyhole to pick then it is probably marginally more secure, but if a burglar wants to get into your home then no door lock is going to stop them. They could just break it or break your windows.
This is it. The weakest part of most doors is the door. A sledge hammer will go through a door or window regardless of the lock.
Smart locks are way more convenient and the ability to grant timed access and unique access controls probably makes them more secure.
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If you’re caught with a lock pick, or sledge hammer or saw all, that establishes intent. You’ll do more time. Of course that’s a huge “if”
If they thought that far ahead they wouldn’t be running around breaking into homes and cars.
Have you seen the scrap prices for catalytic converters? Also, the best thieves of all time were the ones that stole the catalytic converters from the police vehicles in a certain major city. Other than taxes paying for their replacements, I’m not even mad, I’m impressed with their hubris.
Nah, that’s why I run linux
Bazinga.
They could just break it or break your windows.
This is why you need backup measures. For example, if they break in through my windows, they’ll be foiled by the micromachines I placed strategically on the floor. If they break through the door, they’ll have to contend with the blowtorch I have rigged just inside the entryway. Always remember, “this is my house, I have to defend it.”
Traps are technically illegal.
Just leave some Lego on the ground. Perfectly legal, yet instantly lethal to anyone who steps on it.
instantly lethal to anyone who steps on it
I like to pretend the afterlife is like a big AA meeting or group therapy session where people have conversations about how they died.
“So how did you die?”
“Oh, I broke into someone’s house. The bastard left Legos everywhere. I tried my best to avoid them all, but it was so dark that I missed a dark blue 1x1 brick. It shattered every bone in my leg like tempered glass. The sudden collapse from pain and losing all structural integrity in my leg caused me to fall on the remaining Legos. A green plate sliced my jugular. The last thing I remember as things were going dark was a dark figure approaching. It was holding a Lego Millennium Falcon above its head as if it was going to throw it full-force against my skull. The next thing I knew, I was here.”
🤣
This was one of the best laughs I’ve had in a bit, thank you
smh conservatives have gone too far
If they manage to get past that, you should attach a paint can to some rope and have it rigged to swing towards them if they are coming up the stairs.
Man I am having some weird kind of deja vu today.
What if you’re in another city that your uncle happens to live in and his house is being renovated, would you still be able to defend it?
As long as you befriend a homeless person beforehand, you’re covered.
We have steel doors and protection metal bars in the windows in LATAM (yep, our houses are little fortress) and even that would not stop the most dedicated burglars…
You know, I feel cameras help even more, these scums get anxiety when they see cameras lol.
We have steel doors and protection metal bars in the windows in LATAM
Sounds a lot like Tucson…
I had a metal door and an iron gate inside with shitty locks. Burglers broke the locks and got in.
I replaced the door and got great locks. The locks held up fine but they broke the gate right out of the wall and got in.
If someone wants to get in, they will.
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Anything with added complexity will have a larger attack surface and more failure modes.
What would you recommend?
Based on the context, I think they would suggest going with the old school lock with a deadbolt. The more complex a device is, the more likely it is to have multiple vectors of attack.
Honestly, the lock is one of the last things to worry about. If you have an outward opening door get security pins for your hinges.
Check out one of https://m.youtube.com/@DeviantOllam talk on door security and worry less about the lock and more about the door fixture. His hour long conference talks to through how a door is insecure how it can be exploited and what you can do to prevent it from happening.
Typically, external residential doors open inwards so that they can’t be blocked by someone on the outside. Of course this doesn’t apply if we’re talking about an internal or non-residential door.
It is region specific as in my place 2 out of 3 of my external doors open outwards. my place before that was about 50:50 for outwards or inwards opening doors.
I’m not sure. Honestly, it was mostly observation, and not straight fact. Perhaps it just more common on more recent construction. I don’t think I’ve ever been aware of an apartment or house door opening outward, except for screen doors on the outside of regular doors.
Trying to think through all doors of all places I have lived personally and I can not remember a single inward opening door in a house, cottage or apartment. I could very well be wrong but nothing comes to mind.
Absolutely right! By far the majority of burglaries are with forced / destructive entry. Virtually all. That makes me think: if there is a “lockpicking lawyer” out there, what else lockpicking is there…?
I have to disagree - this is more like the gate that blocks the sidewalk that you can get around by walking on the grass. The mechanical locks that these come with are significantly weaker, more common and better understood by thieves, that they wouldn’t bother even trying to figure out how to hack the smart lock.
That doesn’t invalidate their point. The electronic lock is just an additional potential point of failure with no added security. In addition to people who can pick or break the key lock, now there is an additional type of person who can break in: the kind that knows how to bypass electronic locks.
Same concept but why pick a lock when you can break a window or sliding glass door?
In other words… The attack surface is indeed larger for smart lock than dumb lock – more ways to attack – but in practice it matters little because existing home attack surface is easily breached.
PS the counter argument is smart locks come with added security controls: monitoring, logging, and the ability to auto lock in case someone forgets to lock it.
Less secure.
if someone wants in, a lock wont even slow them down. check out lock-picking lawyer
LPL is quite a bit better than your average thief though, and if you attract enough attention to have this kind of expertise thrown at you, you need to worry more than just locks.
Burglars won’t pick locks, though. Breaking the door, door fixture or the window next to the door is much faster, easier and requires very little skill.
Lots do, less common with more modern locks, but a bump key is a very quick fast way to try and get in.
I doubt it. Bump key requires a tool and a skill. The bar is not high but there is one. My understanding is most burglaries are impulse or opportunity. Is something open or unlocked? Can I break it with my boot or a nearby rock?
Doubt what? A proven issue?
A bump key requires zero skill and a set of 10 will net you around 90% of current doors. And skill? It’s a 30 second video to watch, if you even need it. You push the key in and turn at the same time. If it works it works, if it doesn’t you move on. Even a trained professional can’t get into every single door, it’s about ease. If it doesn’t work, they move on.
I doubt it’s used frequently to break and enter. Burglaries are much more opportunistic
It’s used very frequently…. It’s hard to track though since it leaves no trace if done right. Most people would just think they left their door unlocked.
But of course very few people are going to admit that either.
I seriously don’t know why I’m arguing with you or why you think that your opinion matters.
It’s a known issue, simple as that. They are illegal to own without a locksmith license for these things exact reasons.
Ignore facts if you want mate.
My opinion doesn’t matter as yours doesnt, just actual facts.
I didn’t spend enough time finding data but this is representative of data I’ve read
— https://www.adt.com/resources/how-do-burglars-break-into-houses
Edit to add: here’s an article from “Bump Key and Lock Picking News”
— https://www.ukbumpkeys.com/blogs/news/how-safe-is-your-home-i-ask-a-thief
I have a smart lock and tbh hate it. I’m not sure the security difference, but it’s more inconvenient than a key, takes longer, needs me to pull out my phone, open an app and then I can unlock my front door.
Unfortunately getting away from them in moderately upscale apartments is getting harder and harder.
I absolutely love my smart lock. It has auto-unlock when I arrive home after leaving the neighborhood, so I never have to use a key or a phone app. It also has a key pad, so if my phone is not on me or is dead or whatever I can still punch in a code. And I can both check the lock status AND door open status anywhere I am in the world if I have wifi or cell data. I can remotely unlock the door to let in my housekeeper if I am at the office without giving her a code. I can also lock it when she leaves.
That’s a much more fancy one than mine then. The only feature I have is remote unlocking. Nothing else you mentioned is a feature of mine, so that may make sense why I dislike them.
I’m not even able to lock my door remotely, let alone check status or if it’s open. The only way to lock the door is physically using the deadbolt from the inside, the app offers no way to do it.
Ahh, yeah, I can see how that would be annoying.
Yeah, it’s not great. The door had a keyhole so when I signed the lease I was really expecting to be given a physical key to unlock the door, but they wouldn’t even give us those.
A fully featured lock might be worth it, but with the one I have now it’s not great.
Well than that’s a proprietary lock, I don’t think that falls under the umbrella of “smart”.
If it’s internet connected it’s considered a smart lock imo. I’m not sure what distinction you’re trying to make.
Anything that requires the use of my phone for something that could be done just as well with a physical item is a bad product imo. I don’t read on my phone, I don’t ever want my phone to be my car key, I don’t like having smart devices in my home.
I have an august lock that has auto unlock but the Bluetooth radio is so weak it never unlocks. I usually use Siri on my watch to lock/unlock. Next place hopefully I can get one of those homekey tap to unlock ones.
I hope you didn’t pay much for your lock if you can’t even lock it with the app, that’s a huge deal breaker. I don’t remember the last time I used a key.
I live in an apartment building, so I had no choice in the lock, but also didn’t pay for it.
Never tried Siri for it, but I also have Siri disabled on my phone. The watch app is a PoS with this and doesn’t work unless you open the app on the phone too.
I’m sure there’s better options out there, and my sample does seem to be a pretty low quality one, but I just don’t really find a need for one. I’d much rather have a physical key tbh. I’ve almost been locked out because I don’t always take my phone when running the trash out and I’ve bumped the front of the lock with my back and it auto locks me out.
One thing people aren’t considering is that if we assume that it’s relatively trivial to bypass either a classic lock or a smart lock, only one of the two is likely to give your phone a notification that it’s been opened in your absence.
Do they have a small battery? Because it is a common practice to cut down electricity when someone intends to break in your house, even with that backup source of power I guess the lack of electricity would mean no Internet anyway.
Mine runs on 4x AA batteries, which lasts a very long time. On the order of a year. Cutting electricity would indeed prevent the notification, but a dumb lock couldn’t send one even with all the power in the world.
Plus, in a shared apartment/condo building the power is much less likely to be cut and in a freestanding home one could theoretically put their network on a UPS so any notifications would still go out.
freestanding home one could theoretically put their network on a UPS so any notifications would still go out.
I have a UPS attached to my Synology NAS, and every time the unit is triggered it sends a notification (kinda, now that I think about it, how is it sent if no power electricity 🤔) so the NAS advises me that can’t ping to Synology after several minutes, is that what you mean?
I mean that if you have a cable modem and wireless router on a UPS, your internet should stay up unless the burglar also cuts the cable (much less likely).
Ahh yeah, that was me overthinking, pretty neat simple solution I have been wanting to do that since forever, hopefully a robber won’t be the cause of me finally doing it 😅
Haha yeah, the whole thing is a risk calculation that you can take all the way down the rabbit hole. But having network on UPS has other uses too, at least.
Check the YouTube channel 'the lockpicking lawyer". He picks locks, both mechanical and electrical. His typical videos don’t take more than 2-3 minute because that’s all he needs to pick a lock multiple times. Electrical locks usually are opened with a paperclip or something similar. Wat too many locks are designed and built by idiots who have no idea about security
I wish that he would try his hand on a lock from Yale. Considering that they are part of Assa Abloy who are very well respected in the lock business. My suspicion is that a company who are mainly makers of mechanical locks at least won’t fall prey for the many of the beginners mistakes lockpicking lawyer points out.
From what I’ve seen? Considerably less secure.
Many of them feature a normal pin-tumbler lock cylinder as a backup in case the electronics fail, and best case scenario it’s going to be as mediocre as any old Kwikset hanging on the peg on the comedy aisle at Lowe’s. So you’re probably still vulnerable to key theft, key duplication, picking, combing, raking, jiggling, etc.
Then there’s the electronics. A surprising number of them rely on either a solenoid to directly operate the latch/bolt, or a relay that energizes a motor to do the same, both of these are vulnerable to attacks by magnets. A stupid number of them are vulnerable to disassembly attacks. There are trace evidence attacks such as looking at the keypad and noticing where all the fingerprints are, there’s just watching you dial the combination…
And the smart phone app driven ones…sure, let’s send a signal that means “I just got home” across the internet. That sounds safe.
ssh me@home3 me@home3 // : sh ./scripts/unlock_deadbolt.sh *click* me@home3 // : exitConveniently skip the password prompt? At least show us the steps on how to bypass or crack the password.
ssh-copy-id
Then never again. :D
It depends on your threat vector. In the academic sense they’re less secure but if you often loan out keys they’re more secure because you don’t have to give someone the key. If you often forget to lock the door they’re more secure because you can do it remotely.
Or if you have kids they can’t lose their keys if they just have a pin. And that pin can be changed if they tell it to someone.
Against what sort of attack? Who’s the attacker? What capabilities do they have? What do they want?
There’s a saying, “locks are to keep your friends out.” If someone really means you harm, a lock is not going to keep them out: they can smash a window, break down the door, or hit you with a rubber hose until you give them your keys or passwords. This applies no matter what kind of lock you have.
But a lock represents a social barrier: everyone knows that trying to defeat someone else’s lock is a hostile act. The law recognizes this in many places: breaking-and-entering is a more severe crime than trespassing.
A lock may slow down an attacker. It may redirect an attacker to go after your neighbor’s stuff instead of your stuff — but not if everyone has locks.
A password lock has some advantages over a key lock. You don’t have to issue physical keys to everyone you want to allow in. Many allow you to create and revoke passwords separately — so you can grant a friend access to your house while you’re away, and then revoke it when they no longer need it.
However, a password lock also has some disadvantages. If you give a password to one person, that person can easily give it to everyone. That’s a lot harder with a physical key, because they’d have to go make a lot of copies of that key — which, if nothing else, costs money and time.
A computerized lock can create an audit trail: it can record when it was opened, and even which credentials (passwords, keys, …) were used to unlock it.
Any lock can have vulnerabilities — most common key locks can be picked; computerized locks can be attacked through their computer hardware or software.
It is for a house in a residential area, and I don’t keep a lot of valuables in the house. I wish I knew who the attacker would be, so I can catch them with pre-crime.
I love my August smart lock. It auto-unlocks my door when I get home, so I never need keys or to reach for my phone. It also has a key pad to unlock if I dont have my phone. It has alerts and reports status on an app. I can unlock or lock the door remotely for people to check in on things for me while Im away.
Yes, it has issues and eats batteries, but its so convenient.
If you’re concerned about burglars, one problem is that if they decide to hit your house, they can just break a window.
Where I live, burglars often hit cars rather than houses; and they’re very willing to break windows to get in, especially if they see something valuable in the car. They spend no time trying to defeat the locks — hell, some don’t even check if the car is locked. They’re pros; they’ve practiced smashing a window and looting the car quickly.
A lot of the loss due to burglary is the damage the burglar does on the way in, rather than the value of the things stolen. And upgrading locks does nothing to reduce this.
Maybe instead of upgrading your locks, you might be better off spending the same amount of money upgrading your insurance?
Cars have historically been broken into and stolen a lot. Thus auto makers have put extra effort into good locks. Some hardware store deadbolts are so bad you anyone can pick them with lock picks - no instructions needed. Only the best deadbolts are equal what a car has. Likewise breaking a car window is typically harder than breaking a house window.
Likewise breaking a car window is typically harder than breaking a house window.
All it takes to break a car window is a single tap. There’s specific tools available, or someone can just use a shard of ceramic. Shatters completely and instantly.
Right, if you have that tool. If you don’t have that tool though a rock you find won’t work unlike many house windows.
$10 on Amazon. Or just a piece of broken spark plug. Anyone who seriously wants to break a car window will have something handy.
Or maybe thieves are just walking down the street and see a fancy bag on a seat and a rock and just decide to do the deed on a whim and get foiled by tempered glass. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Are you an insurance salesman? Because this script probably would have worked on me!
Here’s a sillier economic take on it:
Locks should be difficult enough to break that if you can develop the skills to break them, you’re smart enough to get a real job and not be a burglar.
If you’re not in infosec you should be. (Source: am in infosec)
Oh, I did that for a while. 2001 was a mess of a year … right after the planes started flying again after 9/11, the Nimda worm came out.
Yeah that was a rough time indeed. I recall getting hit with a couple of those big worms back to back.
2002 was a blur, and then in 2003 came SQL Slammer.
Thanks for reminding me of this XKCD gem!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis
In cryptography, rubber-hose cryptanalysis is a euphemism for the extraction of cryptographic secrets (e.g. the password to an encrypted file) from a person by coercion or torture—such as beating that person with a rubber hose, hence the name—in contrast to a mathematical or technical cryptanalytic attack.
There’s also just the social engineering side of it. I guessed my father’s door code just because I know his birthdate.
Beat me to it! Locks are just but one part of securing your home.
Less. Look at any Lockpicking Lawyer video on YouTube as he demonstrates in real time how bad they are. Most of his videos are under 5 min
If you want to really turn yourself off smart locks check out any DefCon talk about smart locks or “smart” devices in general.
To be fair, he is a better picker than most would-be robbers, so pretty much all his videos are short.
That being said, the weak point he shows tends to be that the companies focus so much on the tech that they throw in a crappy backup lock, which make many rudimentary security mistakes, and make them easy to crack for even a novice.
most of the smart locks that are supposed to be drop in replacements for traditional locks are mostly trash.
Personally been eyeing upgrading to UI’s access readers, but it lacks features like door unlock with Apple Homekey (for now anyways since it requires some specialty hardware). So been holding off.
This particular product is geared towards small business and large enterprises. But can be setup for home usage if you have to technical expertise.
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Funnily enough, if you have the best lock they’ll just break your door or window instead.
Much cheaper to replace a lock than the entire front door.
Something to keep in mind, also lots of smart locks down have a keyhole to pick, so they would actually increase your security when compared to most regular lockset.
You want them to break in for insurance purposes though, it’s a clear indication of unauthorized entry. Your policy should cover the door/window, but if your lock gets picked/bypassed you’re going to have a rough time getting things covered.
Why would they need proof of forced entry? Is that seriously a thing where you are?
This just isn’t true.
A previous owner of my apartment had for some reason installed a high security door. It’s 5 inches thick with steel plates inside and has 3 separate sets of 3 locking rods like a bank vault. Not sure what line of work they were in but, really, good luck to the person who thinks they can break in here easily. Downside is there is no way to put a digital lock on the sucker.
I think I can come up with some guesses on their line of work
I would be worrying about fire fighters won’t be able to enter my apt when they need to.
Firefighters train for exactly such scenarios and will happily go through a nearby wall. The cops struggle with armored doors, but the guys with axes don’t bother.
I just watched LPL pick a smart lock with no keyhole. He just had to shove a bit of wire in the drain hole at the bottom. 🤦♂️
Right at the start dude….
Designed for administration of high occupancy.
Those are second line in those cases, that’s not supposed to go on someone’s front door…
My smart lock doesn’t change the locking mechanisms. It’s basically a robot on the inside that turns the lock like you would. The only security issue would have to be software side, which a typical thief isn’t going to bother with especially since you cost tell from the outside that’s it’s not a normal lock - because it is.
August lock btw.
I agree that most thieves won’t bother - but they do now have the additional option to hack it, making the lock less secure in total, not to mention the flawed mechanical design many of those smart locks have.
Yeah I’m just saying in my case they have no way of seeing that it’s a smart lock at all. The only smart part is an attachment on the interior side. So mechanically it’s 100% the same, and there is no visible indication that is “hackable,” even if it were. My door and it’s lock look as just like it did 15 years ago.
And most dumb locks can also be picked in under 5 minutes. The difference is a smart lock can alert me when someone who isn’t me opens the door or leaves it open. Of course, most burglars are just going to break a window to get in.
There should be a separation between fully mechanical locks with electronic monitoring (ideal) and a mechanical lock with vital electronic components.
You can get a lot of locks which allows you to connect external mechanisms which can do just that. Don’t know anything ready out of the box, though
SwitchBot makes a retrofit deadbolt controller that straps onto the inside
They have their conveniences but I want to get this lock. It’s design makes picking next to impossible. Lpl couldn’t even get it. https://youtu.be/qV8QKZNFxLw?si=1WCdQCktVfGhJtsm
