i do have some sympathy for teachers taking phones away because I had one class in school where a kid would play that noise outside the frequency adults can hear really loudly the whole time on his phone.
Also memes and texting friends are always going to win out over algebra and english class if they are an option right there
yeah, too many school authorities do act taht way. For a approach going more in the opposite direction, see, for example: https://piped.video/watch?v=dk60sYrU2RU (maybe skip to aa minute in. presented, the idea, in that case, by sugata mitra. The Talk is not new, but still relevant I’d think, and relates to the post here. ) 💻🖥️
For anotger, similar, but also different example, see https://piped.video/watch?v=WNuv0_MLrKg this one specifically mentions phones early on, too.
So if you believe in, or are open to the idea, that the approach in in the main meme post isn’t the best, then the stories in the piped videos might be of some intrest to you.
tdlr: 🎶you can use your phone if yiu want to, yiu can leave your technophobe schoolmaster behind,… 🎶🎧
I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable to conclude that any decent approach to the first will also include the second. That shit is literally designed to be addictive, even the best teachers are gonna struggle to compete.
Yknow they could fix a lot getting rid of textbooks…so uh yea. Hands on shiz for the classes that need them and less teaching people to regurgitate and still missing half the facts they ought to know from history. Esp in a effort to make us history look good…when no we were awful lmao
I dissagree information written in a book is a perfectly valid way of conveying it. Obviously lies about history shouldn’t be taught but that’s not a problem with the medium
just doing tests as a memory exercise is also not good
Problem is there needs to be a alternative for audhd people like me. I can’t do textbooks and I’m tired of being forced to learn things exclusively through them without much practice.
That would’ve helped tremendously in my “logic and algorithms” class that it felt like never got any practical practice to see in code. So much of my computer classes based in the theory of it all without allowing me to attempt it in practical applications. It’s either that or not being based in reality on languages and technologies we need to learn. Like heck I want to get into tinkering too and there’s not much for that in schools where I wouldn’t have to have a better paying job to afford the materials myself.
Plus with things like history it’s bonkers how much stuff I’ve found out after the fact bc of living in the south. Esp since I know they tried to push states rights bs on us, and definitely make columbus seem like the Saint he’s not. Among other stuff bc people who shouldn’t be involved in education are dictating things like this.
yeah but that should probably be handled by a disability support structure at the school
Which they all ask me now that I’m trying to get through things what ones would be helpful and the usual suspects never were helpful. I’ve done research on other possible ones and always tell them I’ve got no clue what would be helpful bc searches don’t seem to line up but all these schools have no lists of ideas for that either…
This comment is unintentionally a really good argument for education reform
That was the point. Bc I have AuDHD and have always struggled with textbooks but no one has offered a accommodation(which most accommodations have been lackluster in how much help they provide) that worked for me. I wanted to be done with college by now, but so many things on top of the lack of hands-on stuff means I feel like I’ve learned absolutely nothing.
They still need to teach with something, and textbooks are expensive
Well there’s a bunch of content some of my teachers have pulled from that’s just as good. Hell with history it’s a good idea not to have a state textbook anyway. Shiz omits so much it’s unreal. Or it tries to paint times before the Civil war as the best of times despite us yknow owning people o_O
It’s always rude to not listen. So phones should not be allowed during class.
However, It’s rude not to allow breaks, growth, emergencies, and the fact that they are in fact, kids. They should be allowed to socialize, enjoy youth, and understand hierarchy/respect. So to earn respect, you must respect first.
Let the kids have their phones/computers as that is the modern world we live in. They will have technology. Don’t discourage it just because some people learned “you won’t always have a calculator in your pocket”. Well, now you do, so rather than ban it, teach them to USE IT!!! Just… properly.
Adapt the teaching, not the class.
Are there schools that don’t teach calculator usage? Even 10-15 years ago German schools (at least in the states I looked at) had the option to teach math with either basic calculators, scientific calculators, or computer algebra systems in grades 9-13 (I think) with most schools picking scientific calculators even back then. I would expect that to have moved into earlier grades and more advanced devices nowadays.
I meam, i remember even in 5th grade nearly 20 years ago them telling us “you wont always have a calculator in your pocket” and this was happening when vell phones were becoming mainstream enough that some of us did have flip phones
I don’t carry a calculator in my pocket, just a device that has access to the sum of all human knowledge.
And a calculator.
I second this.
I would still disagree about phone usage.
Even when in school, phone helped me quite a bit with education. Having a way to do a quick fact-check is invaluable.
Now as I’m finishing getting my degree such devices became an inseparable part of the process.
Yes, you may not always listen to what’s being said whilst using them, but lets be frank, you wouldn’t be listening to those parts either way.
School education in a lot of places is fundamentally flawed. It’s extremely difficult to learn when you’re expected to absorb information just by listening and writing.
I’d agree with OPs sentiment here, off-topic smartphone usage isn’t the cause for worse education, but instead is a result of poor engagement in the first place. Should people be more engaged in the topic then suddenly smartphones start being used as a studying tool and not for entertainment. There are many ways of achieving that, but that’s a whole different story.
I think the biggest issue isn’t letting kids use a tool, it’s getting kids to do the work.
I recently worked with a bunch of kids in college, all stem majors, who couldn’t Google effectively or do basic math in their heads. It’s not a matter of “don’t let them use a resource” it’s that many people won’t try.
Limiting technology isn’t cruelty, it’s vital for learning many skills. Number sense can’t be taught by a taking a picture and writing an answer.
I agree whole-heartedly. As someone who needed to learn the hard way that knowing the shortcut doesn’t always help with the work, I’m very much in favor of teaching kids the proper way first.
Also, if kids need to be “fact-checking” their class, that’s indicative of a whole different issue.
Because I don’t think most kids have learnt even the smallest bit about proper research methodology to be able to fact-check things. If that little bit they know is enough to disprove something in class, that teacher needs a stern talking to about the bs they peddle.“fact-checking” was a bit of a crude way of putting it on my part. I’m not native, so there could’ve misused it.
(Went a bit overboard with a wall of text again, but of well)
Although it wasn’t without the fact-checking in it’s normal sense. Take “English as a foreign language”, for example. One teacher will say the word is pronounced one way, the other will say its different. Who’s right? Let’s check Cambridge dictionary. Although it isn’t always teacher’s fault as a professional. Sometimes you just forget things no matter how well you know them.
The other part that I may have failed to convey is looking information up, be it a math formulae, a word, some sort of rule, name or a date.
It’s way quicker than going through your books and is actually not a bad way to remember something. You either have a tab left off or you’re seeing it when using the search, which makes you remember that you did look that up a while back. It’s very minor, but because you’re still being reminded about it from time to time, the information sticks. Essentially you’re doing unintentional passive memorisation.
That’s why I think that maybe not in primary, but definetly in secondary and high school banning technology is not the way to go about it. If the student uses it for entertainment during class, they won’t suddenly start studying if you prohibit them from usining it. You’re essentially solving a non-issue, because the majority of students aren’t even using phones during classes (Well, maybe to cheat on tests, but that’s hurting the quality of assessment and not education itself).
Banning phones is easy, but it’s also the least impactful thing you could to to “improve” educational system. It would be of more sognificance you were to reduce classes to 8 pupils, lessen teacher’s paperwork, introduce new active teaching practices, reward students for persuing their endevours and so on. But that’s difficult, banning phones is easy and brings you more polical approval.
Something I’ve found to have worked well in the past is phone breaks. It helps regulate phone usage and makes students far more likely to pay attention, myself included. The teachers that had the most success gave us phone breaks. Regulation and breaks > punishments.
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Something like 15 minutes break between 45 minutes of each lecture/period would be probably the most logical solution (which many countries implement) so there is at least some chill time instead of just having to hurry class to class. What if you need to 9/11 the school toilet, grab the heavy-arse books from the locker, make death threats to NAFOs on Twitter, or get some xp in Runescape? Maybe kids will be less likely to goof off in class?
This does seem like a pretty good idea.
OP take a look back at this in about 5-10 years and realize how monumentally ignorant it is.
I don’t think OP is thinking that far into their future. I don’t think OP has any plans for higher education either. It’s been a few decades for me, but when I was an undergrad, if your pager went off in class --cell phones weren’t really a thing yet-- most professors would ask you to leave, which was not a good thing in the small upper division classes as they were very difficult and you had to pass with a B or better to move on in my major.
I just wanted to be able to listen to my music while doing work.
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They didn’t ask to get born, and you people get all bent out of shape when they kill themselves.
I don’t think kids are killing themselves because they can’t use their phones in class…
Mostly because the world disregards their concerns. “I was able to go through school with lead paint and leaded gasoline” says the fucking boomer.
“I was able to go to school withoit a cellphone.”
Good job, you survived a time when life was much simpler, and I’m glad you’ll use your experience to shit on the next generation. It’s the same argument against LLMs. They aren’t going away and saying. “No, don’t” isn’t going to change the world.
It’s the same stupid worldview that thinks playing a “gambling is dangerous” warning after a Draft King ad is an effective deterrent.
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Cool, then be as apathetic when teenage suicide continues to go up.
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One mans entitlements is another’s want to work from home or use a cellphone between classes.
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I’m an adult and still kinda feel this way.
I didn’t ask to be here and it just gets harder everyday. Even when I’m doing what I’m “supposed” to do to be happy
I am sorry. I don’t know why. I just felt like I should have apologized to you. Sorry.
Phones certainly decrease our level of motivation by decreasing our dopamine baseline. Huberman Labs episodes addressing dopamine are really interesting
The motivation problem isn’t the school’s fault, it’s yours. You choose to not want to learn.
Oh yeah I totally needed to learn about what a writer might have thought 200 years ago while writing EVERY SINGLE PAGE of his book, when I already knew that I wanted to do something with technology.
But we didnt have enough teachers for biology and physics and chemistry, so instead we got more literature.
I wonder where I (and our whole society) would be now if schools werent meant for preparing kids to transition into work, but instead about getting the full potential out of every kid.
Im German and I did learn English in school, but not really, because it was taught in a way that made me lose interest immediately.
I actually learned English when I started to watch Minecraft Youtubers in English because they had some interesting contraptions in their videos or something like that (Its been a while, I dont know exactly why I started watching them)
If you think studying literature is to teach you literature, you’re sorely mistaken. Similar to if you think you study mathematics to learn mathematics.
You are taught literature so you can better communicate with other people. What is the author’s intention with this passage? What are they trying to say? What might their motivations be? Now apply this to a letter from a potential business partner or a politician’s tweet and you might begin to see how what you were taught becomes relevant.
Why are you taught grammar? Who cares whether you use the Oxford comma or not? Who has the need to know what mood, theme, and figurative language are? Apply this in the context of trying to write a professional email to your boss or trying to tell a story to engage other people, and maybe you’ll start to see that it wasn’t worthless.
Why do we need to know the way to prove that the angles of a triangle add up to 180? Who needs to know the Quadratic formula and how to apply it? It’s so you know how to think rationally and apply logic rigourously, so you don’t fall into familiar logical traps that we see on the evening news and the Internet every day.
Why do you need to know how cells reproduce? Why do we need to know how the pH scale works? It’s so when people on Facebook claim that vaccines erase your DNA or that alkaline water prevents cancer, you’ll know better.
Not taking enough literature and humanities is how we end up with Elon. Every little wannabe engineer who thinks they shouldn’t have to take a humanities course should be smacked in the face by a physics demonstration.
Why does anyone buy this bullshit?
“learn”? We are talking about schools, you know.
Oh no, everyone else was, in fact, learning while you and the other whiners were either sleeping or smoking weed in the bathroom thinking they’re above it all and that doing what everyone else was doing was beneath them.
Jesus, is there a grey area between Reddit’s immaturity and this threads boomerism?
“You’re all cringe”
Is still cringe js
That would include you too, then. And now I’ve said that, it also includes me…
Exactly
Fuck… downvoting myself
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Yes. I always have and always will because I always loved learning for its own sake.
Learning is what gets you through hard times when you don’t know where your next meal is coming from.
Learning helps you get your next meal.
There is no hierarchy of needs. Your needs shift and change over time, and overlap most of the time.
Source: 40 years of life experience, survived abuse as a child and as an adult, escaped poverty and homelessness, and am now on track to return to college and own my own businesses, none of which would be possible without my education and desire to learn
Second slide makes the first one possible but will still take effort beyond that
I don’t think so tbh. If students are motivated enough, then this policy wouldn’t need to be pursued.
A lot of kids are really addicted to their phones it’s hard to even talk to them when they just always have their phone in their hand
Not just kids
To be honest, sometimes I may just stare at black screen if I have low battery just to avoid talking with people. It serves the same purpose as headphones, just a bit worse.
looks up from phone
Huh? What’s you say?
Multiple studies have shown that smartphone decrease concentration, and have negative impact on emotional well being in adolescents.
The mere presence of a smartphone reduces basal attentional performance https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-36256-4
Brain Drain: The Mere Presence of One’s Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/691462
Attention or Distraction? The Impact of Mobile Phone on Users’ Psychological Well-Being https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8093572/
Mobile phone use, behavioural problems and concentration capacity in adolescents: A prospective study https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1438463916300645
I mean it kind of needs to be both. But it’s hard to find a compelling reason why kids need their smartphones fully accessible during class.
Schools should just be one huge faraday cage. Kids have to learn to focus and pay attention.
And they need to learn the curriculum
what is the curriculum? it varies state to state, school to school. Are you bothered that you did not have access to the utility of a smart phone when you were in school?
The physical task of trying to find a relevant and modern textbook for a class project used to be a painful chore. i Graduated highschool in 2006. the best phone was still the Original Razer Flip and all litany of keyboard phones, Envy, Voyager, Alias. The internet was mostly just forums. only sites that were decent used to be the News ones until they turned 24 hour…
I may not have a book in my hand, but I’m reading all day. name a curriculum that competes with the smart phone ecosystem.
The thing about smartphones and the internet in general is that there is a lot of crap out there. Sure kids may read more, but what they read matters. If they’re reading websites that deny the Holocaust or give bogus health advice like bleach curing autism or things like that, that’s not good. Without education, how are they going to know what they read on their phone is garbage?
I mean I’m not that extreme lmao that’s also a safety issue. Kids will be kids, they will not sit quietly all school day and be total lesson sponges lol
Of course not, but I think we should at least act as if they should.
Knowing it’s not possible, though.
My kids are in 5th, 3rd and 1st grade. I wouldn’t want them on their phones during class as they grow up.
Like I said prior, I don’t think kids should be on their phones either.
No, but the attention span kids have these days seem to be shortening. Phones and the current state of social media intake doesn’t help.
That said, a faraday cage is absolutely too far, but they don’t need their phones when they should be focusing on the course.
No, but the attention span kids have these days seem to be shortening.
I hear this a lot but have yet to see evidence/sources from anyone. It’s just “look around you.” I don’t find it particularly compelling. I didn’t exactly sit quietly as a kid myself.
Quick google search: https://santamaria.wa.edu.au/decreasing-attention-spans-jennifer-oaten/
It’s a pretty well known fact that constant tech decreases attention spans, in both children and adults. How many times have we been on Lemmy/Reddit on the browser and picked up our phone to… check Lemmy/Reddit?
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That appears to be a quickly referenced theory by one (yes qualified) person on one blog post without a study behind it. I could also argue that kids generally have short attention spans but social media just allows them to indulge in it more, and they will of course prioritize attention to that over other things. That is not the same as “it shortens their attention spans.” We need at least one study here or at least something more substantive than a one-liner linking social media and decreasing ones attention span. I’m not sure if you noticed, but blog is actually focusing on how to reach kids and strategies to get them to pay attention. It has one throw away non-cited line about social media shortening attention spans.
I should also point out that I also did a cursory Google search before writing the previous comment, and that was the only post I saw as well. The reason you selected it is because there was no other decent hit when you searched I imagine.
Let me be clear here, the only reason I am sort of arguing about this is because there is a really bad propensity for older people to say something is wrong with younger people. We see it over and over again. I think social media is actually very harmful to kids, but I have yet to see anything that shows it actually diminishes ones attention span. And the reason I really don’t like that claim is because it seems to be just another variation of “kids these days.”
How much of a safety issue would it really be? Cell phones didn’t really become a thing for my age range until high school. If there was an emergency, there was a landline in the classrooms.
I don’t think y’all realize that not a single staff member or administrator or any employee of the school would be able to use a phone either (other than landlines I guess?). Schools aren’t just full of students lol
other than landlines I guess?
You mean that thing I specifically mentioned? Yes, I realize that. Would it be inconvenient? Yes, it absolutely would. Would it suck to work in that environment? Again, yes it would. If I’m just thinking about safety, I’m not sure it’s that much more unsafe.
School shootings weren’t really a thing until after you graduated you dumb fucking boomer.
Things change, and I’m tired of stupid trogladites inhibiting innovation because it’s different than what they’re used to.
Get with the times, or move the fuck out of the way.
I’m not a boomer. And I’m in no way advocating the use of a Faraday cage. Maybe read what is actually written instead of what you think was written. Hell I work in tech trying to get people up with the times…
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It’s incredibly unsafe when you live in a society built around smartphones/tablets for health and safety tools to remove said smartphones.
But is it? Landlines can make the same emergency calls. A Faraday cage also doesn’t mean you can’t have an internal wifi that reaches outside that the staff can connect to, or even the students can connect through with a proxy controlling their connection.
I agree it’s impractical. But it doesn’t mean laptops and phones suddenly don’t work. They can still work within the cage and you can poke holes through it with a landline and a proxy to control traffic in and out.
Ultimately, it’s definitely not worth the engineering and the effort. I just don’t think that safety is the reason it is impractical.
Right? Somehow schools survived until at least the 2010s without every kid having a cellphone in them at all times.
Yeah, it would suck for the staff, but I don’t think it would be that much more unsafe. I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I don’t think it’s particularly unsafe.
Ban pocket calculators because the abacus exists. Lazy kids aren’t learning how to do arithmetic because of them.
No kidding. Not to sound like an old fogey but we did really well without them for both “emergencies” and “fact checking”. I can only see them primarily as a distraction.
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Those were tools. Smart phones are a distraction for social media 99% of the time.
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Schools should be a battle royale, leave them on an island to battle and the last kid standing gets to go home.
They do that multiple times a week, it’s called “phys ed”
How will this plan affect my real estate taxes?
Not well I imagine, but you’ll get to see an epic battle every exam season.
Stupid.
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learn to focus and pay attention.
Not all of us have the luxury of that ability
I have very little faith the person you’re responding to even acknowledges the existence of ADHD .
I’m not them, but while ADHD is a problem, social media and the dopamine quick-hit style that internet content has taken has had a noted effect in reducing attention spans.
Source?
I mean, I’m doing quite well having gone though school without smart devices and 100% would have never gotten straight As if I had one when I was a kid. And I’m every type of ADHD you can be diagnosed as…
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I will learn the curriculum when the curriculum stops being wrong and occasionally straight up propaganda
Can’t use that to explain Cs in math and physics.
Well, by their teenage years, why not all the reasons adults need smartphones fully accessible? Looking up information from authoritative sources? Emergency contact? Coordinating schedules for office hours?
Schools often simultaneously demand more from children than workplaces do adults, and give them less opportunity to excel.
I’m not saying work-inappropriate phone use should be accepted, but taking them away entirely is downright irresponsible. Just like schools who still demand students write on a notebook instead of using a laptop. Raise your hand if you had RSI-related issues for a decade or more after high school? We old people tend to forget how bad school used to be (and can be) for physical and mental health AND for learning.
Well, you can quickly search up some information. I don’t remember what it was, but I remember that once in middle school teacher said something I wasn’t quite sure about, but also I wouldn’t ask if I wasn’t more sure. So I looked it up, seeing that I was right, I asked if it rather wasn’t meant to be that other thing, he checked too and indeed he was wrong.
Also, my mind often wanders off. And it may happen that I suddenly can’t remember something. Could just be some word I could look up on my phone in less than a minute. Option B: Keep thinking about it till the rest of the class. I can’t stop thinking about that until I either remember or find it.
Next, spine. I am currently in high school. Phones are allowed here. Any time. So, I utilized my scanner and digitized one 500 or so page book I couldn’t find on the internet, and then used it as PDF instead of a physical book. It is less likely that I would forget my phone. I wish schools would have options for e-ink tablets instead of having to carry many heavy physical books. That used to be problem mostly in elementary school and middle school. Same goes for note taking.
Obviously, the last example can be easily solved by modernization.
Fast talking teachers. I can’t write that fast. I mean, I can, but then I can’t decipher my handwriting, which is already hard anyway. Voice recorder is a quick solution. Obviously, it is easier to look through notes than audio, but IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A REPLACEMENT FOR NOTES, just a help.
But do take that with a pinch of salt. Especially in elementary school, I used to be one of those weird kids who greatly preferred being liked by the teacher over having friends. So even though I had a phone at the time, I never used it during classes because teachers disliked it.
But at least during breaks it should be allowed. Otherwise kids will find much more dangerous ways to entertain themselves.
Option B: Keep thinking about it till the rest of the class. I can’t stop thinking about that until I either remember or find it.
Option C: Write it down.
It’s not like I am thinking about it to not forget what I wanted to remember. It’s that it will keep bugging me until I remember.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say.
Bugging you until you remember? You write it so that you can’t forget and so it stops bugging you.
Bugging you because you need that info itch scratched right now? Aka instant gratification. Then you have to learn to not need instant gratification. Seriously, it’s another skill.
Another skill is not caring if someone has a solution other than yours. It’d take half the time to write it down as it would just to look up the answer.
half the time to write it down
You’re making my argument for me. Although I’d say much less than half, you already have pen and paper on your desk.
All this is spoken like an entitled bratty immature kid. (No offense, it’s just your age and you’ll grow out of it)
There’s a reason why you can get a ticket or be charged with distracted driving while you’re on your phone and behind the wheel of a car. IT IS A DISTRACTION. FULL STOP.
Stop lying to yourself and to us in the process.
- Using phone while driving is much bigger issue.
- This phone issue has never affected me personally. I am defending OP and others.
- I am not talking about using the phone all the time for some stupid thing. It gives you access to a lot of information when needed.
Also if you trust kids with making life changing decisions, this is unfair.
Also sorry if I sounded as you described. I only started carrying the phone with me since I was 15. I was too worried about breaking it (it’s not cheap thing). That makes finding positive points (that would apply to younger kids) a bit harder.
Edit: Also, don’t be worried, I would almost never voice my opinions in real life.
Spoken like an introverted someone who HAS ALREADY been affected socially in a negative way by their cell phone use.
The entitled and bratty part of your comments = when people tell me not to use my phone I simply DONT use it or bring it. What’s the problem exactly? You want access to an encyclopedic knowledge in class? You don’t have a laptop or computer in the room you can use ?
Maybe you use your phone only for the most strictly academic things, but most people don’t.
Finally, I don’t trust kids to make life changing decisions. See all the high schoolers who got suckered into a worthless degree from the University of Phoenix. It’s very fair to take the reigns from people who can’t control themselves and their impulses.
Spoken like an introverted someone who HAS ALREADY been affected socially in a negative way by their cell phone use.
Can’t disagree with this. I got a tablet when I was 8. With unrestricted access. On the positive note, it did help me learn quite a lot of stuff. Like English.
The entitled and bratty part of your comments = when people tell me not to use my phone I simply DONT use it or bring it. What’s the problem exactly? You want access to an encyclopedic knowledge in class? You don’t have a laptop or computer in the room you can use ?
No problem, really. If someone wanted to search up something during class, teachers could just allow it, and generally they did. Except when I was in grade 9 and the school decided to prohibit even just having them at school, as if it were grenades. Some teacher would always just collect all into a bucket and return at the end of the day.
When we had free substituted classes, sometimes they would tell us something like “Sorry, I’d allow you phones now, but if I did I could have problems from it.” So clearly they would punish teachers for that. That’s just crazy.
And computers aren’t in every class. Even if they are, they might not always work. Now we use our phones even to do exams sometimes. But, yeah, school isn’t even mandatory for me anymore, so it’s already different.Finally, I don’t trust kids to make life changing decisions. See all the high schoolers who got suckered into a worthless degree from the University of Phoenix. It’s very fair to take the reigns from people who can’t control themselves and their impulses.
I wasn’t even talking about such late decisions. For example, when I was 10 I was given the decision between going into class A or class B since I had good enough results for A. A was class for a little more talented kids. They even had some additional subjects. Well, my dad discouraged me from going to class A. He told me “There won’t be any normal kids. I’d choose B if I were you.” So I did. I regret. I could have gotten to a better school later on.
Some explanation of those classes:
A - Talented
C and D - sport classes (basketball and hockey respectively)
B - everything elseNext, when I was 14, I told my psychologist about my living conditions. Including photos of how our home looks like. She told me that she could call social services. Then asked me if I agreed. I was scared, so I said no. I regret, once again.
And something that’s there always, choosing high school when you’re 15.
I am not sure how it works across different school systems. In Slovakia, they are focused just on 1 particular field of study determining where you’ll be for the rest of your life. 3 year fields are without graduation (e.g.: various mechanics and plumbers). 4 year and 5 year fields are with graduation, meaning you can go to college/university.
I’ve had a few classmates who only chose particular field because their friends were going there too, even though they weren’t interested in it.------------------------------
Oof, sorry. I got too much off topic.
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If you want to teach kids how to look up information, you can create spaces for that. They don’t need unrestricted access to their smart phones to accomplish that throughout the day. Hell you can relax your policies as they grow up and show the maturity to handle having a smart phone in the classroom. If schools want to do that, I am all in favor of it. But they would have to start early and build a system, which is a lot to ask of already overworked educators.
I am not talking about unrestricted access either. It depends on age, but they could always just ask the teacher if they’re allowed to look up something. And also I don’t see how disallowing phones during breaks helps education. It’s meant to be a break.
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… yes, my phoneless childhood was super dangerous. it’s amazing i survived a couple of decades without one!
Yes, life was so dangerous before the telephone. It’s amazing anyone survived decades without them! 991, phaw, we had a bucket of water and a shotgun.
… in summary. The point should be that the next generation has an advantage over the previous, in all things.
I mean, comparing class with active kids throwing stuff around and ones just sitting and playing on their phones, I’d take the second. Cyber bullying may be hard to detect though, but it’s not like schools care either way.
School logic. Infinite power to punish and restrict, infinite resources to harm and burden, nothing for support or uplift.
I don’t know about you, but my school did the best it could. Some adults might even say what you said about society in general - infinite resources to harm and burden, etc. People usually try their best, your teachers too. Maybe you’ll grow up to be a teacher and you’ll be better at it than the ones you had. Good luck!
I grew up and became a librarian instead, because I genuinely enjoy helping people find the things they are interested in, but couldn’t lend my energy to a system that doesn’t care about the that they are interested in part, among other flaws.
It’s not anyone else’s job to support and uplift you. Be a strong person and learn to strive to overcome.
Quit being so soft, this is the easy part
You must be LARPing. You’re far too much of a caricature to be real. You gonna lecture me about my bootstraps next? Pen an op ed about how “nobody wants to work anymore”?
Bro, that’s good advice man.
If kids are already breaking because they don’t have support to hold their hands through 11th grade history class, if it’s too hard to get up and get to school everyday, pay attention, do your homework, etc without special attention from adults …. I mean …. Life is really gonna kick your ass later
Yeah because as we all know, teenagers (14-18 for high school mind you, not sure why you’re specifically saying 11th graders?) are emotionally mature, rational actors who are ready to take on the world with no emotional support or direction.
It’s just hyperbole to illustrate a point. I don’t know why people are so literal online.
I’m not just talking about 11th graders lol
I’m saying that the time to need emotional support from your teachers happens much younger. When you’re 14-18 you’re learning to be an adult. If you don’t learn how to manage yourself emotionally, or provide your own means of motivations, etc you’re not developing into adulthood on a pace that should be expected of you.
If your emotional development is too far delayed, it’s likely to cause you suffering the longer you take to learn it.
Where’s the hyperbole? You’re also affirming what I’m saying with the rest of your comment.
I did all this shit, anyway. Twenty years ago. Sacrificed everything on the altar of the almighty A. What did it get me? A master’s degree I’m too depressed and anxious to ever use and a long-standing hatred of the system. Now I speak out because nobody listens to the people who are still in the system. The people directly affected by it are easy to ignore. Now I’m the demographic people listen to whether they should or not, so I’m saying what I wish people had said when it was me.
This is the one time I wouldn’t mind if the Hexbearians would come in and be assholes.
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Quit being so soft
what happened to lemmy, what the fuck is this shit, how does this have 9 upvotes? quit being so soft? go back to boomer facebook, jesus fucking christ
“Oh no, the teacher isn’t in tune with my emotions, I’m so hard done by, how can I be expected to excel if everything and everyone doesn’t revolve around me? Wahhhh”
GTFO, and yes be strong, don’t be weak. The world is a dangerous fucking place.
American society has always been HIGHLY punitive with an almost non existent interest in actually solving a problem. Even the most “liberal” of us if you mention plugging the social/economic holes that lead to massive crime spikes get all
“Mayyybbeeee I guuueeeesssssss but like what you can’t just NOT throw the book at them and ruin their life forever?!?! How else will they stop doing crime if we don’t effectively take away their ability to earn a valid living via criminal charges?!?!”
Maybe the US could incorporate the silent kids to parole with guns and motivate the other kids to learn. It would be a win-win-win situation wouldn’t it?
How do I motivate my students? I’ll need to know by 7:30 am PST tomorrow.
Thanks!
Heh, “Motivate”, sounds mostly impossible. At least with some subjects. But maybe there could be some improvements. Here’s some of my dumb and likely useless thoughts:
- If it’s in your competence, allow phones during breaks. I believe that could make classes without them much easier.
- Fresh air: Helps alot. I don’t know why some teachers absolutely hate open windows. All you can do on those classes is try to not fall asleep with your heart pounding.
- Allow water during classes: Similar to above, dehydration helps no one.
- Engage with students: Try to have conversations with them, give them questions, let them give questions to you (on topic). I’ve had a few teachers that would just do 45 minute monotone monologues.
- If possible, give some demonstration or real life use examples. This works well especially with chemistry and physics.
- Positive and negative points: For example, 5 pluses may be A, and 5 minuses F. I prefer the system where pluses and minuses null out each other, otherwise a plus may make your grades worse, leading to lack of activity. Someone not paying attention or not knowing answer to questions, minus. Someone being positively active during classes, answering questions, plus. You can decide what makes plus and what minus and how many are needed for the grade.
- Quick activities (like optional tests): Math teachers did this since elementary school. Teachers would give a math problem and some time to solve it. First x students to solve it correctly got a good grade, others could get pluses. For example, first 3 students to solve a math problem within 15 minutes get A, the next students get a plus. Those who did nothing get nothing. Like a small optional exam. It makes it worth being prepared. Just don’t make the window too small, like “First student to solve this within 5 minutes gets A, next ones get nothing”, because most will just give up.
- Announce exams in advance: This gives students time to study before each exam. The likelihood that someone will study AFTER a surprise exam is quite low.
- Give option to re-do an exam: Got a bad grade? Don’t give up yet. Put in some more effort to get a better grade. I’ve seen different approaches on this. Sometimes it would replace previous grade, sometimes you’d just get another. Sometimes unconditionally, sometimes only if it’s better. I’d choose a second grade conditionally. If it replaced the grade, you wouldn’t see as many studying for first exam, relying on “fixing it later”. Conditionally because if there’s a chance of getting worse grade, I may just as well not try, just in case.
- Movies or shows: Applies to foreign language classes. If it catches their interest, they may not even realize they’re learning. You could occasionally do that as a reward. Reward = motivation. Tip: Subtitles may be helpful. The problem with this is finding something universally interesting.
- Try to not treat the whole class as 1 person: Punishing whole class for actions of 1 student will make YOU more disliked than that student.
- Respect: I don’t know how you could do this. But some teachers may gain respect among students. I believe this is more valuable than using power. But again, no idea what you could do for that.
- Outside?: My middle school geography teacher did her classes outside during summer. Nothing changed about those classes, it was just outside. Better environment.
- Minimize homework: Homework is one good way to absolutely hate a subject. This could be partially replaced with optional projects. If it’s optional, it doesn’t feel as bad anymore.
- Ask students for feedback: There’s a small chance you may get some useful answers.
But you probably can’t do much past trying to be nice. Biggest problem is the extra unnecessary information being taught, but if you can’t determine what precisely will be useful in the future, you can’t know what to omit. Missing knowledge is probably worse.
Edit: Fixed some typos
Obviously by letting them use computer and mobile phones
