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Didn’t expect Dave here lol
Nah
70’s for total quality of life, then we increased in digital quality of life while everything else fell then we increased in network quality of life but everything else fell. seems like the matrix any day now.
yeah but a brief period where a high school degree was enough to buy a house and raise a family eventually.
Sure, for a specific group of people, the 70’s were great.
Unless you were gay, or trans, or brown, or a single woman, or a married woman who didn’t want a husband as a “head of the household” or… anything other than a married, white, Christian male with 2.5 kids.
believe it or not there were black people who were able to get work and buy homes. These things were not exclusive to white, christian, males. Im not even sure trans was on the radar at that point and yeah gay was generally closeted. The eighties though started tearing things apart although it was not really felt until the 2000’s. 70’s was the last vestigage of proper tax levels and social programs.
Heres a decent timeline of trans history. If you hate wikipedia, there’s the citations at the bottom to browse through. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_transgender_history
But spoiler alert: transgender people, intersex, non-binary and other genders have been around probably as long as we’ve existed. As far as recorded history, I’m gonna drop a fuckton of info below if anyone is curious about human history outside the gender binary.
A few archeological finds & early historical texts:
- (7,000 BCE-1700 BCE) Among the sexual depictions in Neolithic and Bronze Age drawings and figurines from the Mediterranean are, as one author describes it, a “third sex” human figure having female breasts and male genitals or without distinguishing sex characteristics. (The Archaeology of Mediterranean Prehistory by Emma Blake, A. Bernard Knapp)
- (1st century) earliest mention of transgender/gender non-conforming people: Philo of Alexandria and Marcus Manilius provided descriptions of transgender people during the early Roman Empire books.google.com
- probable transgender remains from between 2900-2500BC in Prague article on pinknews.com
- the remains of a person with Klinefelter syndrome (intersex), circa 1050-1300 in Hattula, Finland article on phys.org
- Kalonymus ben Kalonymus ben Meir (1286-1328) wrote a poem lamenting being born a boy, referring to their (possibly her) genitalia as a “defect” wikipedia.org
A list of the 10 earliest recorded gender-affirming surgeries:
- Karl M. Baer (1885-1956) born intersex, assigned female, came out as male in 1904; surgery in 1906
- Dora Richter (1892-?) first surgery was 1922, second was 1931
- Lili Elbe (1882-1931) transitioned in 1930, and was the first known recipient of a uterus transplant in attempt to achieve pregnancy; she died due to complications
- Laurence Michael Dillon (1915-1962) had surgery in 1946 and was an early user of testosterone therapy, starting in 1939
- Roberta Elizabeth Marshall Cowell (1918-2011) underwent gender-affirming surgery in 1948 and lived to be 93
- Christine Jorgensen (1926-1989) began sex reassignment surgeries in 1952
- Charlotte Frances McLeod (1925-2007) struggled with American doctors; she wanted surgery but they wanted to change her gender identity instead which sent her into a deep depression; was quoted as saying “I was miserable and I wanted to die” before moving to Denmark to have her surgeries around 1953-1954. She lived to be 82.
- Rina Natan (1923-1979) earliest known individual to undergo gender-affirming surgery in Israel; it was finally granted to her in 1956, after being denied multiple times and attempting the surgery on herself
- April Ashley (1935-2021) English model and activist who was outed without her consent; it’s believed her surgery occurred around 1960
- Maryam Khatoon Molkara (1950-2012) first publicized Iranian citizen to receive gender-affirming surgeries (first surgery unknown; probably after 1980) In the 1980s she secured a religious decree from conservative Iran’s highest authority to officially allow reassignment surgery for herself and for other trans people in her country
Many cultures around the world have recognized more than two genders:
- In India (Hijras or Kinnar; since 1226 at least)
- Pre-Islamic Arabia (Khanith and Mukhannath; as early as the Rashidun era 632 - 661)
- Cambodia, Laos and mostly Thailand (Kathoey; since at least 1296)
- Albanian society, Kosovo and Montenegro (Burrnesha; documented in 1800s but can be traced back to the 1400s)
- the Bugis of Sulawesi recognize five genders (Makkunrai, Oroané, Bissu, Calabai, and Calalai)
- Southern Mexico/Zapotec culture (Muxe)
- the Philippines (Bakla; prior to the Spanish colonial period)
- Italy (Femminiello; since at least 1740/1760, see: Il femminiello, painted by Giuseppe Bonito)
- Japan (in writings since at least the Edo Period)
- the Diné aka. Navajo (Nádleehi)
- the Zuni (Lhamana)
- many various indigenous american tribes (the Two Spirited)
- Igbo people of Nigeria (documented in the 15th century)
- pre-colonial Inca civilization in Peru (Quariwarmi)
- Native Hawaiian and Tahitian (Māhū; pre-colonial, but first published mention in 1789)
- the Itelmens of Siberia (Koekchuch; first recorded in the late 18th century)
There’s so much more, but I’m tired now lol. Hopefully I made my point, which is we have a fuckton of lgbt+ history that no one knows about cause it’s not taught. It doesn’t help that the anti-lgbt+ propaganda likes to postulate that this is all some new-fangled fad, which it is clearly not. It’s our history.
Some of these fit and some don’t. At least to my understanding of modern trans. Many of the gender affirming surgeries were done in the gender assigned. Its actually the few cases were gender was assigned at birth instead of going with the general rule that the gender was the same as the sex. Third section makes sense at least to the limit of how much the cultures are understood. First section is a mixed bag. Gods and other fictional figures have been intersex and that is something at least most people should be aware of. Its hard to say with the rest but most seem intersex things again as opposed to individuals choosing their gender.
Well part of your problem is your comparing a time where we barely had rights let alone a language for ourselves up against a modern trans reality. All of the gender-affirming surgeries I listed were done by adults at their own behest. Also, this is a history rundown where I mostly focused on trans individuals, not intersex individuals, BUT, historically, most exceptions to the gender binary were all thrown together into single categories back then. In hindsight, sure, a lot of these cultural third gender classifications sound confusing, inaccurate, and too broad a category for our present understanding. But they were working with what knowledge they had at the time
You’re “not sure trans was on the radar” because right wing media has convinced you that it’s abnormal. Trans people have been around forever.
well trans before surgical augemtation is going to be a bit difficult.
uh, you don’t need surgery to be trans
My guy, theres evidence of an intersex knight buried with great reverence in, I believe, Denmark, about 1000 years ago.
Trans individuals have been a thing since humans first existed. Historical texts are littered with references, and the history of LGBTQ+ is the same group fighting for rights since forever.
Many cultures feel it is perfectly normal, and considered it expected that some people presented as different than their biological sex.
It’s completely fictional that any gender or sexual minority is new or unique in the modern era.
What exactly do you mean by 2.5 kids??
Thalidomide was a hell of a drug.
Take three kids, chop one in half, feed it to the dinosaur garbage can. Easy peasy.
dinosaur garbage can: “It’s a living”
flintstones reference? daaaaamn 😎
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Future analysis will likely show that equality meant that now everyone gets treated like the people they hate.
The colors of the 70s were to hide the cigarette smoke damage.
I think the best time was the 60s, 70s and 80s…people were free.
But yeah, seems it constantly gets worse to live on this planet. Even though we have better tech now, it feels like people are very powerless.
We don’t optimize for human happiness, we optimize for maximum profits.
I think the best time was the 60s, 70s and 80s…people were free.
Depends on the country:
- Portugal’s dictature ended in 1974
- Spain’s dictature ended in 1975
- Chile’s dictature lasted the 70s and 80s
- Berlin wall fell in 1989
- USSR collapsed in 1991
Brazil was also a dictatorship at the time (funded by yours truly, 'murica)
60s, 70s and 80s…people were free.
Hmm, straight white males were free. Everyone else, not so much.
Yeah. Now we are all not free I guess. :)
You’re literally more free than in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
Unless you’re Vietnamese or from another country that got dealt the raw end.
I mean, it wasn’t if you’re gay or trans…
Not all that great now either tho.
So maybe 2015 was the peak?
Aye. I could buy that. It was the last time it was social suicide to be an unironic nazi.
Fun fact: Switch was originally supposed to be trans. Her name is still an indicator of it. I think she was supposed to be biologically a man in the real world, but biologically a woman in the matrix.
So in other words it was truly a peak of our civilization.
You sad little coward. I pity you and hope you find your way to adjust to living amongst human beings in the near future.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
The fuck is wrong with you all gay femboy comie redditors?
I am as he made me!
We’re currently in version 1 of the matrix which blows up. Hopefully soon.
Wasn’t the first iteration of the matrix a perfect utopia that blew up because the human mind ended up rejecting its programming?
That’s what they want you to believe.
No seriously: I might be wrong but do we know it’s true or can it just be something the machines told Neo?
Wait the lie was a lie
Agent Smith told Morpheus, not Neo.
The architect did tell Neo all that
This quote that the post is about is referring to the scene where Agent Smith is interrogating Morpheus in the first Matrix movie.
Ah, yes
But either way, it might be a story, the machines tell humans. But then again, do we know anything
All we know is that it was us who scorched the skies.
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Then they overcorrected and made it too bad. That’s where we are now.
It was The Architect’s vision of a perfect world, so given what we know of him it was probably a featureless box with a chair in the middle and you could sit there forever. No way that’s lasting long.
Fun statement and all, but he clearly understood what humans wanted and needed. He just didn’t factor in that imperfect humans wouldn’t accept a society and life that were somehow perfect in spite of said humans. They en masse knew something felt off.
a featureless box with a chair in the middle and you could sit there forever. No way that’s lasting long.
There is definitely a joke about silicon valley and maybe apple itself in here lol
Well we do like to joke about mark being a robot maybe the trolls aren’t rong and there’s a reason why silicon valley is called silicon valley besides the technological advancements
Yes, we still have some descriptions in the Genesis book of the Bible, release codename “Paradise”. If we are to trust the same source, there was another reset called “Noah’s Ark”.
According to that, we’d be in at least the 3rd iteration.
Unless… we’re actually dinosaurs IRL, the first reset was codename “Chicxulub”… and the machines have been iterating over who knows how many thousands of different versions, with the current one being an attempt at keeping those lizard brains controlled by… a software overlay codename “Consciousness” (WARNING: don’t let your lizard brain know, or both it, and you, will get terminated).
When we started doing the thinking for humans it became our civilization but then you just had us rendering sextillions of monkie pngs god im sick of that stupid ass pictures
I’m afraid the human race won’t live long enough to reach “peak civilization” as that would mean that the successful ones take everyone else along with them to the top. That isn’t likely to happen before the successful ones take us all down to extinction.
It was just the peak of the US, in some aspects anyway. With all my appreciation to all the good things that the US still does.
While we’re on the subject of the Matrix… what happens if you take both pills?
One of them will be digested slightly earlier than the other. That one takes effect.
You do understand that, within the context of the film, the pills aren’t anything special right?
Morpheus: The pill you took is part of a trace program. It’s designed to disrupt your input/output carrier signals so we can pinpoint your location.
The movie goes to great pains explaining the notion of experience versus reality within the context of ‘The Matrix’. As such we know that there is literally no pill; they do not exist. I guess it can be thought of as a ‘sudo’ for the trace program? Either way, I don’t believe anything is actually being initiated from or by the pill as we understand things. The operator is the one actually executing the program. Why would the operator choose to run a trace program and put someone to sleep? Just because Neo could potentially decide to take both pills?
Robot 1: hey why did the server crash and what happened to all the humans. Other robot 2: eh looking at the error console it seems one of the humans ingested to contradictory virus pills causing a feedback loop that crashed the matrix servers and life support. We can turn the servers back on but there’s really no point without the humans. Robot 1: welp guess we could try going nuclear. Robot 2: you crazy your gonna kill us all with radiation not to mention the environmental damage just think about the tree matrix.
I always thought they had a program for each choice, like one put them to sleep while the other one activated the tracer. Can’t recall the exact lines but I thought they only did the tracer after he accepted meaning it was meant as needed for that step. Could really be either but I always thought the tracer program needed some signal that would only work when the host body received it, or a signal the body was being purged. They were all hackers so maybe they didn’t need it but I assume they didn’t see all the data from their view just what the machines let them to continue on the cycles.
I haven’t watched the newest one and 2/3 are a bit fuddeled in memory so I may have easily missed a line, or other lore with it. Anyways just explaining how someone may come to this conclusion even if it’s incorrect.
I’d argue the blue pill was mostly GHB.
You do understand that I wasn’t serious, right?
You eat the steak and are at peace and content with the fact it doesn’t actually exist.
You’re still trans now
Just… closeted? You know the other world’s there, but you don’t live there.
Oh god how can I undigest a pill 😭 repressing was a mistake. Take the red pill mfers I don’t care what decision in your life you’re facing take the red pill. Self-honesty, truth, discovery, rigteousness. Don’t be a coward 😮💨
The story continues. You wake up in Wonderland and believe how deep the rabbit hole goes.
I recon it turns on noclipping you fall through the map but don’t trigger the homing becon in the real world
Well, the events of 9/11/2001 were a pivotal moment in the united state’s national consciousness. That was a traumatic event for the country; our national self esteem changed. The world became more of a scary place.
Even before that, the dot-com crash ended the 90s high.
Between the end of the Asian financial crisis and the dot com was peak human civilization in my opinion.
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For the average unaware US citizen *
If you don’t understand the absolutely foundational shift in US culture 9/11 caused, you’re probably not old enough to remember 9/11
It also represented a tipping point for personal rights in the western world. Wholesale spying was something that “evil commies” did, and Intelligence agencies had to at least obscure their attempts at spying on their own citizens. Nowadays you have some western governments basically saying that the Stasi didn’t go far enough.
The Stasi didn’t have the computer power…
Well yeah, the Matrix takes place in the US for US citizens.
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Go tell people in the middle East that things improved from 1999 to 2015…
I literally just said this to my wife last week. So far, the timeline of The Matrix has tracked, lol.
Agent Smith clarified that civilization progressed beyond 1999, but that it wasn’t human’s progress anymore.
Agent Smith: “and I say ‘your’ civilization, because after we started thinking for you it became ‘our’ civilization.”
The rise of AI. Just a matter of time, lol.
Chatgpt already does most of my thinking for me
We marveled at our own magnificence as we gave birth to AI
That’s evolution, baby
I dunno…but somehow I feel like he got a point.
So did the Unabomber
The machines did nothing wrong, it was mankind that caused Nuclear war. I would side with the machines in a heartbeat
The human battery concentration camp is kinda weird though
Humans as a power source was the dumbed-down plot point. The original concept was the human brains acting as parallel processors, but the writers thought the average movie-goer wouldn’t get it.
That only happened after humans used nukes to block out the sun, eliminating the machine’s access to solar energy.
I know. My point was more about the concentration camp lol
Narrator: He didn’t know.
It’s probably the most reposted piece of movie trivia after the Aragorn helmet kick lol
Narrator: It wasn’t.
Well alri
Imagine if OpenAI’s data center was millions of lab grown humans growing in ooze to power a silly chatbot for other people to play with. You’d side with these people over those trying to stop them?
That’s a completely different and largely irrelevant question to make.
How is it different? It’s the side using people for power vs the side trying to stop it.
A much more apt comparison, to begin with, would be between siding with humans or cows being used as food – because that’s what humans are to the machines, a way to stay alive. Second, humans have proved time and time again that they can’t be trusted, going as far as ruining the entire planet in fear of the machines – WHO WERE TRYING PEACEFUL NEGOTIATION, mind you. Thirdly, despite not really needing to do so, the machines chose to minimize human suffering, even in the horrible position forced upon them. Ideally, I’d want them to collonize other planets and abandon Earth, if possible, but otherwise I’d be fine with them having a crack as the dominant species over humans.
I used the OpenAI example, because of the comment that mentioned the energy thing was a dumbed-down version and the original vision was for the humans to act as parallel processors for the machines.
I don’t remember much of the series after the first movie, but if we’re talking about this scene for this history, there is nothing about peaceful negotiations.
https://youtu.be/O5b0ZxUWNf0?si=OxN2JzpUg8q0LNwE
In terms of the machines minimizing suffering, did they? If this world we’re in is the matrix, why is there so many suffering?
