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I know it sounds awful but on the other hand Linus explains why it’s like that in this video https://youtu.be/7KuLMe6KSVQ?si=DAdNH3JlZ4HShIYZ
Not trying to justify it, just it’s good to know why.
So, how do you sell this to a regular user? We’re probably getting new phones in this round and I want the Pro but still trying to sell that choice. My kid’s Mom has never used the data connector so how can I sell her on that as one of the features she wants?
Note on our weird situation but we have two teens and our pattern is to buy new, and give our 2-4 year old phones to the kids. For this to work, we really need to have identical phone models
Guess you’ll have to change bubble colors.
I feel like not many people actually use the data port on their phones anymore, I know I haven’t used my android USB port for anything other than fast charging for I feel like 10 years. Do you even use the data connector on your phone?
I use it. I plug my phone into a dock and use it in desktop mode on occasion. I actually have an old phone running an FTP server with an external hard drive connected.
Apple:
We had two children. Conner (yay! so handsome!!😍) and…erm, ugh…Billy. We don’t play favorites! Conner gets driven to private school, plays lacrosse, and has a tutor. Billy takes the bus to public school across town, has a sack lunch, and we broke his legs when he learned to walk because he was smaller than Conner.
You’re literally describing every product line ever.
Wait til this guy finds out about CARS
Are they really this spiteful? Wow
More clickbait bs. Oh right, Apple bad!
Where’s the clickbait? Apple is bad for using an outdated standard out of spite.
It’s clickbait because they’re using last years chip like they always do. It’s not out of spite. The usb controller on the A16 Bionic does not support USB 3.0 because lightning never needed it. The A17 Pro in the pro models has an updated USB controller.
You do realize USB2.0 predates iPhones and USB3.0 is 15 years old at this point? And no, USB controller is not part of the A17 chip and it never will be. IO is always separate, even Apple knows this.
I think you may be mistaken, friend. The USB 3.0 controller is part of the A17 Pro SoC. It was specifically called out during the keynote when discussing the A17 Pro. You can read about it here too: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-a17-pro-3nm-iphone-15-pro
Quite possible. Not sure why they would do that since there are plenty of IO chips out there, but it’s Apple… many things are a mystery.
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USB-C is just the connector, not a protocol
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so very apple to punish it’s own users because they have too many old components they need to use up, but if you’re paying for PRO you get actual 2023 modern USB.
so very, very apple.
Bro what modern it’s USB 3.0 lmao
USB 3.0 is already 15 years old.
the adaptor is usb3, the controller interface limits you to usb 2.0 speed. what part of the article was hard to comprehend?
What part of their comment was hard to comprehend?
They’re just saying even the usb 3.0 in the pro model is not modern.
Connector is USB type C, controller inside of it supports USB up to version 2. With USB you have different connectors but all of them are backwards compatible. So yes, Apple put outdated chip in the phone on regular versions so you get only USB 2.0 speeds. Type C is obviously capable of much more than USB 2, power delivery included… which is the part of OP statement. You get modern connector with outdated interface. Next year they will just trickle down Pro hardware to regular phones and call it “upgrade”. That’s what Apple does.
Well, they put last year’s chip in the phone, which does not support USB 3 speeds. If the non Pro iPhone 16 won’t support usb 3, then it’s deliberate kneecapping. Now it’s just unfortunate.
It’s kind of funny that when they used lightning, they got a pass for failing to keep up with the industry standard that’s over a decode old.
Well, not really. Most people complained for years now about lightning. Not necessarily about the lack of usb 3 speeds but that’s probably because for the vast majority of people, that doesn’t matter
I still find it scummy that you get a year old hardware at current year prices. If the price was not at flagship level, then sure you could justify older chips.
Well, the price isn’t at flagship level. At least not from Apple’s view. You pay less, you get less (which is still en par if not ahead in most regards, compared to the competition)
Simple anchoring effect at work. Price flagship higher, so expensive “cheap” option looks cheaper by comparison. Truth of the matter is, it’s all inflated prices, not only exclusive to Apple.
This is why companies like Apple are malicious.
More like standard capitalism. The usb c connectors are not slower then the lightning connectors so its not like they made it worse. They simply refused to make it better.
A bit like Nvidia continuing to maken better gpu chips but refusing to have them release with a more VRAM.
If course in a way, all for profit-companies are malicious. Extracting surplus value from workers and such.
So - in your opinion - any company shipping a USB 2 device is ‘malicious’?
You obviously don’t get the point. Educate yourself on Apple and USB-C, please.
You mean the Apple that provided more than 20% of the engineering force that developed USBC?
Or the Apple that released the first USBC laptop to market?
That Apple?
Or the apple that fought against USB-C for their phones since basically forever and now implemented it with USB 2? Yes, this one.
It doesn’t sound like you actually have a rebuttal.
Apple was forced by the EU to stop using their old and worse connector
So they’re complying, but they’re purposefully limiting the less expensive phone as a malicious compliance to that
Pretty simple really
Lightning connectors are definitely worse than USB-C, but when they were introduced the alternative was micro USB which is objectively worse than Lightning cables.
Of course, with wireless charging I haven’t used an actual cable in five years so it doesn’t matter that much to me.
So lightning cables offer transfer rates of 480Mb/s - USB 2.0 offers 625Mb/s. You are cross that they swapped out Lightning for USB on the main models and use USB 3 as a differentiator in the Pro models. Fair enough, but that’s not ‘malicious’. It’s not even malicious compliance.
USB 2.0 is also 480Mbps.
If the aim of a company is to maximize profits then every company in Apple’s stead would do the same thing. Not defending it but that’s the world we created.
Apple’s base model hardware usually uses last year’s pro chipsets. They’ve been doing this for a bit now.
If the trend continues, next year the base model will get all the newer CPUs, micro controllers, etc.
Here’s the rational answer, folks. Anything else is your emotional response.
Apple gonna Apple.
Lately the base model is usually last year’s old pro processors and micro controllers. Next year the base 16 will probably have the faster IO if the trend continues.
I suspect next year’s base will have a revised version of this year’s processor. The iPhone 15 Pro has an A17 Pro. This is the first A Series chip with a “Pro” label. I don’t expect something “Pro” to make it into the base model.
What will change between the A17 Pro and the A17? Who knows. It might include the upgraded USB controller though.
This is Apple at it again, do bare minimum and charge premium. They left USB2 because it required no work, but they had to put type C because EU regulation. Since USB is backwards compatible, solution is just solder half of the connector, charge premium price and fuck you customers. And they are right, people don’t care. Instead they go defending it like “I don’t need it anyway”, “Am not a pro, I don’t need it”, etc.
Exactly. And the usb controller is built into the chip.
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Did you watch the presentation? They literally showed and said the usb controller was part of the A17 Pro SoC
You’re right. Good catch.
Completely agree. No company redesigns all of their products each year. They redesign the top tier and then its shifts downward the next year. GPU, CPU, Motherboard, hell even cars do this. Not all models included Carplay and Android Auto when it launched, just the high end cars did, but now all of them do.
USB IO speed aside, Apple’s phones have gotten to the point where 3 and 4 year old chipsets are still VERY performant. They now have the wiggle room to put more bleeding edge silicon in top tier phones, be ok with smaller yields at first, and scale fabrication over the year.
That all being said, given that everyone was going to been eyeing this USB port, they probably should’ve taken one on the chin and changed the stupid IO speed. Although, the people complaining about this probably aren’t Apple’s core market anyway. So maybe they were right.
My XS Maxxx is many many years old at this point and it’s STILL SO FAST!
I’ve also never reformatted it, which is wild.
Ah, yes last year. Usb 2.0 was invented in, like what, 2001? A shitty phone cpu from 2 years ago is probably at least as powerful as the pentium 4 I had back in the day. Come the fuck on.
Even USB3 is 15 years old already.
Just saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if they were reusing some boards or controllers with limited throughput that their manufacturing plants and fabs were already pumping out. Cook got famous for being an operational efficiency nerd that made sure Apple had very little spare parts and inventory on the books.
But yeah, iPhone physical IO speeds have been slow for a looong time. My guess is that so much of Apple’s install base is syncing over the cloud that it hasn’t been a priority.
The biggest applause at the in-person event was, no lie, for the larger cloud storage plans.
Welcome to the Android world where even good smartphones worth 400 $ only support USB 2.0
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I don’t use data on the USB port very often and when I do it’s always to make an access point over USB so the USB2.0 bandwidth is enough for my use.
I wonder if people really have a use for USB3.
Apart from making phone more expensive, I don’t see a real need for me
Argument can be made if your camera doesn’t support 4k or 60fps, there’s very little need for higher speeds than USB2.0 since files generated won’t be as big. However if you keep using your phone as a camera to record long videos, then yes it’s annoying to have slower interface.
That’s a valid point.
Also is there’s a USB3 controller at all in the phone to connect the camera inside the phone? Or does the camera talk on a different bus on the SoC?
With Apple devices I honestly don’t know. With others SoC is the one exposing the rest of the hardware and acts are intermediate. Historically in general giving DMA access to any hardware on the system has proven fatal when it comes to security. You do gain speed, but expose so much in the process.
My cheap android phones have had usb3 for like 5 years =\
Most Androids still only get USB2.0, but not the ones that are in the price range of the iPhone.
Edit: Feels like I’m back on Reddit with people not reading my comment, I just said that although most units of Android phones are budget to mid-range, mine being a mid-range (Poco F3), Android phones anywhere near the range of an iPhone in Cost is USB 3.0+
I bought my oneplus 10 pro for sub $500 during a sale, and it has usb3.1. It’s last year’s model. You can get a pixel 6 with usb3.1 for less than $400. A Galaxy S21 has usb3.2, less than $500.
That’s almost every major android brand for $500 or less with 3.1 or better. The cheapest you can buy an iPhone 15, the one with usb2.0, is $800. What are you on about?
Cheap as in 100 and less brand new? The third-party market can get you a usb3 type c port from a 2 year old phone at that price range. This is cheap to have. Apple is not doing it because it costs money, but it is a plus for them. They are doing it to push power users, who know enough about technical specs, to buy the more expensive product. The pro has USB 3, and even then, the charging speeds are 12 watt. They are trickling the upgrades ever slower now because the technological advances have slowed down. They are doing it to create hype and advertising the new stuff every year instead of drastically changing their product. It is planned absolesence from making certain parts weak on purpose.
Most units are budget/mid-range, I’ve got a fairly good mid-range Poco F3 and it’s still USB 2.0, most units of android phones are that or below.
I said that everything close to price range of an iPhone is USB 3.0 or greater. The point was that the iPhone 15 is A$1500 and has the same port as my A$600 2-yr old android. The budget specs of the base model is absurd enough without being hyperbolic.
it’s not universally true, there are plenty of cheap and expensive models with USB 3
My phone is 6 years old at this point, was only $350, and uses USB-C.
Is it USB 2.0
It only fast charges in a 3.0 port so I’m gonna have to assume it’s 3.0 not 2.0.
That has nothing to do with whether it’s USB 2.0 or 3.0 because it’s backwards compatible. What phone do you have?
How is it backwards compatible with fast charging if it only fast charges in 3.0 ports but not 2.0 ports? It will work in 2.0 sure, but it doesn’t fast charge over it since 2.0 doesn’t have the same electrical output as 3. I have a LG Thinq V6.
USB Power Delivery (fast charge) doesn’t require USB 3.0 speeds, just USB-C connectors.
That phone isnt 6 years old, it was released in 2020. It wasnt $350 either but $800. Weird points youre trying to make…
after a little time most of these handsets see deep discounts and special pricing from carriers
I paid $350 for it, for certain. I thought I got it in 2018 but it seems I’m just misremembering.
The main point is that android certainly uses USB 3.0 pretty commonly, and not just 2.0. If it fast charges, it ain’t fucking 2.0.
Disagree. My Redmi Note 11 can charge up to 33W using my current Anker Nano II (65W), previously UGREEN 20W charger. It has USB-C 2.0 port.
My Nothing Phone 1 is USB 2.0. I’ve never used it to transfer data
USB-C is a connector and, by itself, says nothing about the protocol in use. That’s the important part.
It does feel kind of spiteful. But honestly, it is surprisingly difficult to find USB 3 USB-C cables anyway. Most of them are USB 2 unless you spring for Thunderbolt cables.
I swear I have a USB C cable that charges faster oriented one way. I haven’t really proved it or anything but it really does feel like it. Maybe I’m crazy. Is it possible? It’s “normal” USB on the other side.
I had a cable which only charged plugged in one way up. I assume some of the pins were damaged.
You aren’t crazy, but barring any defects or damage this shouldn’t be happening
No they’re not? At least when I check amazon or any other online retailer, USB-C cables are almost always USB 3.0 or higher. Only the ultra cheap ones are not.
We’re talking USB-C to USB-C right?
Do you have links for some of the ones you looked at? Because I checked a few Anker and Apple cables and they were all USB 2.0.
It does seem to be easier to get USB 3 Type A to type C cables, but not C to C.
I was skeptical but then I went to the Google store and looked at their USB-C cables and they are also USB 2.0 speeds.
There’s nothing more spiteful than not buying either of them
Really apple? And they did all that mother nature bullshit with octavia spencer while it was europe who forced them to use a universal connector and stop polluting the world with useless pathetic cables
Frankly, who even uses the USB port on their phone for data transfers unless it’s an emergency? I just stream media from my NAS using Navidrome and Jellyfin, use Syncthing to back up my photos and sync files I need, and mount the SMB shares I need to access. The eMMC and SD cards are slower than USB 3 speeds, anyway. Most SD cards don’t even max out USB 2.
The only sensible real life use case for USB 3 for phones would be external monitors.
who even uses the USB port on their phone for data transfers
If far easier to manage files on the phone, be it upload/download/move/delete with a computer than it is fiddling with whatever shitty file manager on the phone.
I just stream media from my NAS using Navidrome and Jellyfin, use Syncthing to back up my photos and sync files
Going to venture a large portion of mobile device users don’t use any of that, or know what any of that is.
What I don’t get, is why you’re being an apologist for Apple?
What I don’t get, is why you’re being an apologist for Apple?
I fucking hate Apple, their walled garden and questionable engineering practices. But USB port speed is the last of the reasons to hate them. I really don’t give a shit about whether the USB-C port on my phone is USB 2 or 3 or whatever. Be it “normies” or “techies”, I can’t recall anyone in my social circle who uses the port on the phone for anything other than charging. Cloud storage, whether self-hosted or by some big company, is the norm and way more convenient. Especially considering that properly set up, everything is backed up and synced in real time automagically.
I never understood why some people take one comment of “I don’t agree with that criticism” and think you are some diehard fanboy? I don’t like Apple, I don’t like Tesla or Elon Musk, but sometimes I disagree with some criticism they get and basically every single time someone thinks I must be a loyal fan.
I’m sure there are those who will or could make great use of USB3 speeds, but I think like 99% of the users won’t notice the difference because they just don’t use it. I know I’ve never used USB for data transfer in my last couple Android phones, I only use it for charging and even that is greatly reduced since I mainly use wireless charging now.
Transferring large amounts of 4K ProRes video off the phone and onto a computer. But someone who’s seriously doing that is buying the Pro anyways and that’s faster
IPhone doesn’t have a sd card and the internal storage is decently fast nvme.
Well, not an iPhone user myself, but I use the port because it just gets to be straightforward.
I can appreciate the self hosting of Jellyfin, but then I’m at a place in the mountains without adequate cell signal nor other decent internet. One day I was doing the Jellyfin thing then of course my music stops. Turns out there was an outage near my home.
It dawned on me that I went through a lot of trouble to have my media remotely accessible, when plugging into USB let me just dump the files and the on-device media players were really good at handling it. Besides, the latency on seeking the media was sooooo much better than streaming it (the streaming seek latency isn’t bad, but it isn’t instant either).
Fair point about perhaps not needing USB 3 speeds, but USB 3 has been a thing for 14 years now. Phones that cost half as much as the iPhone 15 toss in USB 3 speeds without a thought. Sure, there are budget Android type-c that only have 2.0, but any phone that costs anywhere near as much as the iPhone seems to have USB 3 speeds on the port.
Why would any average person use a usb cable for data transfer when they can just use this specialist equipment that takes more know-how than the average user has to not only spec but build and configure too. Something that most people have never even heard of. People that in most cases barely know how to use their phones or a computer.
Search me… i cant think of any reason whatsoever for that.
People must be crazy.
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