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Wait, the mod removed the option to set a gender in the character editor? Why don’t these people just make a male character and be done with it?
Because REEEEEEEEE
Then they couldn’t do their performative outrage, which is all they have.
Because they’re little fucking babies.
Looking throughout history, aalways have been
What difference does it make that they don’t?
Because it’s not actually about the pronouns. These people aren’t actually angry about pronouns.
They’re angry about trans and non-binary people. They’re angry that people are growing to accept these people, who they do not think should be accepted. They are angry that a group they don’t think is normal, is being accepted as normal.
Let’s roll it back a bit. There’s a bit of a difference between “accepted” and “tolerated”. For the most part, the trans community is merely tolerated by the majority of the country.
I don’t know what the point of your comment is.
Trans and non-binary people are becoming more accepted as normal over time. The people screaming about pronouns don’t actually care about pronouns, they oppose that gradually growing acceptance.
And the “replaced white people”. And the female leaders. If someone wants a taste, go through the Steam forums for the game. It’s a complete deranged mess.
Steam forums are the absolute bottom of the barrel for game discussion, maybe tied with 4chan.
I don’t think it’s even about that, they’re angry because the want to be angry. The why doesn’t matter, if the current right wing outrage du-jour had been… I dunno, left handed people rather than trans people, you’d see all the same people working themselves into a screaming tantrum if a game or movie had a left handed person in it.
Oh no, it’s very much hatred. The same hatred they had for black or gay people.
Who the hell are you to say that I hate black and gay people? You’re overgeneralizing a group, how much different are you in this case? Stop with that man, this is why we can’t have actual debates.
The problem is you want to debate.
There’s no debate. No one has to tolerate your intolerance.
Gay people exist. Trans people exist. Fin.
Stereotyping people and overgeneralizing things without actually debating your point is ridiculous. Grow up man.
For sure. And when there’s not enough people focused on trans people they’ll shift their focus to some other marginalized group to harass.
These limp dicked losers have literally nothing better to do but jerk each other off in their seedy racist forums and message boards.
It’s not “about trans and non-binary people,” it’s about the injection of identity politics into video games. The removal of the mod shows that activist fiat is necessary to present the illusion that people buy into gender ideology.
The existence of trans and nonbinary people is not an injection of identity politics into video games. The fact that they exist and a video game is acknowledging their existence is not political.
Wow 2+2 is 4 in this video game??? Didn’t know it’s going so WOKE
You just but I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened.
Conservatives have a long running feud with the sciences.
I thought 2+2=4 was anti-woke? Wasn’t there a whole weird Twitter drama thing a couple of years ago where 2+2=4 was considered the racist side?
No no no, you have to break their brains.
Ahem:
White people in a video game is political. Statistically, the default is Han.
I can’t imagine being such a pussy that pronouns in another character’s profile would make you cry from extreme butthurterie like a little beta wuss
Yeah, having that “he/she/they” toggle and calling sex “body type 1 and 2” instead of male/female sure is political. You know when it became political? When people saw them and went “REEEEEEEEEEEEE” because they’re bigoted dumbfucks.
,“Identity politics” in this case meaning “trans and non-binary people exist and are trans or non-binary respectively”.
The removal of the mod shows that activist fiat is necessary to present the illusion that people buy into gender ideology
Bullcrap. It shows nothing of the sort. It shows nothing more than that NexusMods doesn’t feel like hosting assholes.
The fact that you unironically used the term 'gender ideology ’ proves that you are, in fact, a bigoted little shit.
Pronouns, gender, genitals, etc. in player-character customization are just yet another option for someone to tailor their gameplay to whatever experience they want.
The only identity politics comes from the people politicizing it.
It’s only politics because people go out of their way to oppress them. There’s nothing to be political about if people are allowed to be who they are.
“Identity politics” always seems to mean “I am upset that different people exist.”
This is a nothing option in a video game. Nobody’s rubbing your nose in it. It doesn’t affect you, at all, but it’s a neat little extra for other people. Do you give a shit about other people? Or does the mere possibility of anyone distinct from you, the protagonist of reality, fill you with emotions you can’t handle? There’s no third option, here. It’s a checkbox for how NPCs choose voice lines, in exactly the same way they’ve done for decades. It’s just separate now.
But of course one glance at your profile shows you’re an unapologetic bigot, and what you mean by “gEnDeR iDeOlOgY” is exactly what every other diet Nazi means by it: you hate queer people, and you want it to be their fault.
Out.
I mean if you don’t want to “buy into gender ideology” you should be non-binary and not pick a side there Chet.
did a bot write this? what are you even trying to say?
Are you one of those people that thinks anything that’s not straight cis white is “identify politics”? That anything that isn’t your world view is “political”? If so, please go fuck yourself. If not, I have no idea what you’re on about.
Not a bot; just a bigot. If you scroll to the very bottom, a good 30% of the total comments are this guy digging a hole trying to prove it’s “woke” society that’s the problem and not him.
That’s legitimately just sad. What a pathetic individual.
It got worse:
The only thing left to fight for is the right to indoctrinate very young school children into gender ideology and show them, graphically, how to be gay.
Either a troll, or too far gone to help.
Teaching children how to be gay, sure.
Hey, Children. If you like somebody and they like you back, don’t worry about which gender you think you belong to.
People can love people no matter if they are the same gender or not.
The crazy thing is how hysterical they’re being over something you can fail to even notice is there. It gave me male pronouns as I choose the male body type, and the button prompt to change it is hidden way down at the bottom of the screen. It’s literally on screen for a few seconds and then never mentioned again in a game with hundreds of hours gameplay.
Yeah, I’d see reaction videos before I played, and I honestly couldn’t find how to change my pronouns for a good 30 seconds.
God, Bethesda sucks at UI.
Yeah, it took me ages to realise the prompt was at the bottom of the screen, I didn’t even want to change them, I was just wondering why it set off such a wobbler with the bald bloke.
They need to force their views on others. If anyone believes what they believe, then they are suddenly just like everyone else instead of the bigot they know they are deep down
They aren’t really forcing their views on anyone though, they’re just jacking themselves off. No nonconforming person is going to download this and inflict it on themselves, and they have no reason to use it themselves unless they’re just really closeted and lack the will to not express their own nonconformity. It can literally only exist to rile people up who sought out the mod specifically, which includes only them.
If they weren’t trying to force their views on others they’d just make their character a guy and move on. They go through the trouble of coding this mod to push their agenda on others.
Apparently nexus mods has some sort of ad sharing with mod makers. Could be a grift. Grift is popular among right wingers, possibly because they are on a fundamental level stupid.
Some grifter makes an anti “woke” mod that probably took 5 minutes. A bunch of stupid chuds download it to pwn the libs. Grifter makes money. Chuds feel good about their shitty lives.
What I’m trying to say though is that most of them just do make their character a guy and move on. They don’t need the mod and the people who they think do need it aren’t going to install it. It’s not just a transparent attempt to ignite culture war arguments online, but it’s a stupid and ineffective one.
The point of the mod is not to change something in game, its to appear in the list of mods and remind some people that they are hated and bigots will never stop hating them.
Its a weird “I was here, and I hated x people”.
I have trouble imagining enough people wanting to download a mod to do this to get it to appear on anything but the most recent releases list, and to only be on that list long enough for some other mods to get released.
Well, the type of person that would do this wouldnt be opposed to spoofing the number as well. And they can just keep reuploading the mod so it’s always appearing in the list.
The point is, their ineffective methods still worked a little. Ruining someone’s day, hour or even minute is validation enough
How does installing a mod on a single player game force views on anyone?
I can think of one: a parent who installs this before letting their child play it to enforce their culture of hatred within their house.
Insisting that Nexus Mods should host this bigoted mod is the losers who walk in fear of “woke culture” trying to enforce their bigoted views on the rest of the world. The assholes are still free to install that mod but Nexus Mods is just as free to not host that trash.
Does it matter? I have a mod to improve blood splatter, does murder meet your approval?
If someone made a “killing Jews” mod it wouldn’t be allowed either.
Nazis aren’t welcome.
What difference does it make to anyone that people are doing this in their own game? It’s not like this mod takes the option away for everyone. It doesn’t. It only effects their own private game they’re playing in their own home.
To confused people exploring from all Communities trying to understand what the hell is going on:
- Bethesda is a game studio who does a decent job of giving people choice to do/be whatever they want in their games. Out of the box they included the option to choose your pronouns in a new game called “Starfield”.
- They also make it possible to modify their games to make very drastic changes to the player experience.
- Nexus is a site that hosts thousands of mods to all sorts of games. People make mods, upload them to Nexus and players download them.
- Someone made a mod to remove the option to choose pronouns from Starfield.
- Nexus decided they don’t want to host this mod. It’s hurtful to people and goes against their values of inclusivity.
That’s about it. Most of the people whinging about censorship don’t even play the game. They’re just here to whinge about how the world is moving on from old bigoted ways and they want to stay in the past and be jerks to people for merely existing. If they actually cared, they’d just download the mod from some other site. The mod itself is probably not much bigger than this reply.
I’m fine with it too!
Nexus Mods has had some controversy in the past but they seem generally solid.
Removing the mod is imposing a political viewpoint, and it’s also completely performative. Why should NexusMods care if the mod exists? Everybody mods their games at their own consent.
No non-conforming people were protected by this move.
If ‘trans people exist’ is a political viewpoint, it’s the kind that only monsters disagree with.
Some questions have a right answer.
Because the mod itself is intended as a form of political grandstanding. So that bigots can download it thousands of times and then hold it up and say ‘look how many people are modding the woke out of BG3’ in an attempt to discourage inclusive content in other titles.
Well, sure. Lots of people don’t want woke garbage in their games. When it tops the download list the number of people who reject gender ideology is revealed. That’s the real problem with it. It scares the shit out of the left because it breaks the illusion of social acceptance the left fights so ferociously to maintain by force and fiat.
I can understand that having pronouns or nonbinary or trans characters in games can be a bit of a culture shock. As a culture we’re beginning to grow more overall accepting of these people that have been here all along, but never felt comfortable to “be a seen part of society” out of fear. The same sort of thing happened, or is still happening, with homosexuality, though that’s further along the acceptance curve than trans/nonbinary.
Eventually it won’t be so obviously “woke garbage” that sticks out to you as something noticeable and startling, and it’ll be just another feature of the game like anything else, just another NPC like any other, but that one gets called “they” instead of him or her. It takes time for it all to become normalized and not be something you raise eyebrows at and feel upset by. You may always wonder sometimes what gender someone is identifying as when it may not be obvious, but it will become easier to simply ask them, or be okay with not knowing, it’s okay to not know.
I’m not going to pretend that mentally working through these things isn’t a part of this whole process, but trying to somehow fight back against it by calling it all garbage and refusing to extend the hand to understand where it’s all coming from is… inappropriate, we all need to get along, we all live on this planet together and the only way to make it the best it can be is to try and understand each other.
Sure, you may have a point in there about desiring a platform where people can upload any mod they like, and that could totally be a thing, Nexus Mods doesn’t want that to be their thing, specifically, and whether you’re okay with that or not is your perspective, and I’m okay with that, but you should try and understand why Nexus is taking that stance. Nonbinary and trans people are on the back foot, culturally, so it’s clear that many places will take a stand to hard defend their representation because they’re so far behind the “biological genders” and could use a helping hand.
we all live on this planet together and the only way to make it the best it can be is to try and understand each other
Understanding and agreement are not synonyms. You can fully understand the views someone holds, and why they hold them, but still come to a different conclusion yourself.
The way you’ve described the situation treats the idea of progress as some unidirectional, always good force of nature rather than a collective of actions made by people. I don’t agree with this. Progress as a concept is neutral, and any given progress can be good or bad, on a scale. As such, people shouldn’t just roll over and accept “progress is progress” as an excuse when something they don’t support is being normalized.
you should try and understand why Nexus is taking that stance
Once again, understanding and agreement aren’t the same. I fully understand why nexus does what it does, but I that doesn’t entail support for them doing it. At its core, I think it’s utterly fucking stupid for a website built around modding, something fundamentally about individuals playing games how they want, to make a bunch of rules about how people should play games if they want to be on the site.
I didn’t say that understanding and agreement are the same. What I wanted was for that user to understand where the other side was coming from, and acknowledge that, and if they still had a different opinion, then okay, but I just wanted to try and explain the side I’m on in a less directly hostile way than the other commenters are.
You make some logical points, I won’t go into my opinion since it already seems clear, hope you have a nice night, genuinely, people should be able to discuss this stuff maturely.
Well, sure. Lots of people don’t want woke garbage in their games.
“Woke garbage” being things like “the existence of a type of people I think should not exist”.
Again, with the “existence” thing. Obviously people exist, but arbitrary pronouns are woke garbage.
Yes. Existence.
Trans people exist. Non-binary people exist. And they exist in ways that people refer to as “woke garbage”.
They’re not arbitrary.
When you decide at your choosing what they are, instead of by a deterministic set of conditions, they are, by definition, arbitrary. That’s what arbitrary means. It means you choose them.
Here’s the thing: They are chosen by a deterministic set of conditions. Just because you don’t understand what those conditions are does not make the terms arbitrary.
Also, that’s not what “arbitrary” means, either. For somebody who seems to be so uptight about the definitions of words, you sure do invent a lot of your own definitions.
Interesting that bigots are so insecure in their bigotry that they require it to be externally validated. How pitiful.
The insecurity is on the part of the people trying to modify the language in society by fiat when it doesn’t get adopted organically.
Like black people trying to get racists to stop using the N-word, right?
Lots of people don’t want woke garbage in their games.
They’re welcome to make their own games, and host their own mods.
When it tops the download list the number of people who reject gender ideology is revealed.
Did it actually top the download list?
No?
That’s what I thought.
it breaks the illusion of social acceptance the left fights so ferociously to maintain by force and fiat.
Imagine telling on yourself like that 🤣
Hi, woke garbage here. Very trans. Enby too. Just sitting here existing at you. Existing so hard, it probably hurts you just knowing about it. I hope it does, 'cause you’re a prick and you deserve it .
He’s so scared he didn’t even reply. What an incredible superpower you have! Kinda jealous tbh :)
Wow, I’m the only person that bellend didn’t reply to. I feel special 🤣 Everycritter else gets a fresh pile of horsecrap, I don’t even get a downvote. Works fine for me, I guess.
They have been spamming me all night.
I asked them a yes or no question and they replied with a rant, that I still didn’t bother to read (because they didn’t reply with either “yes” or “no”) and now they’re accusing me of actually having read the rant. Very reasonable people 💀👍
removed by mod
No non-conforming people were protected by this move.
By taking this down, NexusMods communicated that they care about non-conforming people far more than if they had just said it. They are creating an environment where bigotry is removed rather than accepted. Nobody is saying you can’t be a bigot in private with your game, we are saying if you’re going to be a bigot we don’t want you to do it here with us because we care about the people you are excluding/hurting.
Rejecting gender ideology isn’t bigotry. Removing it from a game where its present also isn’t bigotry. Removing the mod is just performative slacktivism and does nothing to help anyone.
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“I’m not a bigot for refusing to accept you, you’re a bigot for refusing to accept that I won’t accept you!”
Lol. Lmao even.
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It’s the exact same. You think trans problems are dumb, you don’t understand why “separate but equal” is problematic, and you spent too much time licking lead paint in your formative years.
Touch grass, dude.
Yall said the same shit about gay people a couple years ago. It was all the same talking points, it’s just slightly modded to fit trans people now. It was bigotry then, it’s bigotry now.
Said what shit? When? What are you even talking about?
Treating people being gay as political.
It’s the alphabet mafia who are treating people being gay as political, not conservatives.
Using a pejorative name to refer to LGBT… you’re not helping your argument with that one.
Being black isn’t political, until bigots like you make it political.
Being female isn’t political, until bigots like you make it political.
Being queer isn’t political, until bigots like you make it political.
Every “identity” I’ve ever been given has come through violent conservative oppression. Sometimes I’m the group they like - sometimes I’m the group they hate. But I’ve never fucking asked for the distinction.
Gender, religion, sexuality, ethnicity… these matter as much as hair color, until some asshole decides there’s a right answer. Every flavor of “identity politics” that conservatives screech about is an abuse they invented and hurled at people until those victims stood up and shouted “Motherfucker I am.”
You don’t need pride until someone’s tried to make you feel lesser.
Get our of our goddamn way, and stop imagining you’re the good guy. You are the entire problem. You can stop, at any time.
So no one was homophobic before? The Stonewall Riots just happened because gay people were bored? The big numbers in hate crimes? The government openly saying that they wouldn’t do anything about AIDs because it affected mostly gay people? I’m guessing it was gay people who wrote the laws that got us kicked out of the military. And made it so we couldn’t get married.
What does Alex Jones’ dick taste like?
Yup, back then it was “the gay agenda.”
Same shit, different day.
Everything you guys say about trans people.
“Biology!”
Heard that
“It’s a fad!”
Heard that
“It’s mental illness!”
Heard that
“Society is gonna crumble!”
Heard that
It’s everything. Everything. Everything. Let me repeat, everything. Even down to shit like should ____ be in the military or the bathrooms or sports?
Everything. It was bigotry back then. Its bigotry now.
You have a very loose definition of bigotry.
Being hateful or disapproving of a demographic of people based on their identity?
No. You’re just a bigot who doesn’t like to think they are. You like the ideas, but have a problem when a negative term gets attached to it. It’s like when people weren’t “racist.” They were “race realists.” It was racism with a new logo. Similar to how when people were homophibic, it wasn’t “bigotry”, it was “Think of the children” and “the gay agenda.”
Rejecting bigotry is not supposed to be a political viewpoint.
Addendum: “YourContentSucks” just went through my profile and downvoted everything lol what a cuck A2: Actually now that I think of it the username does kind of check out
Rejecting gender ideology isn’t bigotry. Also, like I said, nobody installs mods they don’t want. It literally affects zero people who don’t want it to affect them.
Rejecting gender ideology isn’t bigotry.
Referring to a demographic as an ideology generally is bigotry, though.
Okay, but nobody has done that.
You yourself just did
“Gender ideology” is doing exactly that.
Referring to gender ideology as gender ideology is putting a tidy label to a set of ideas, and makes no reference to any people whatsoever.
No, sorry, I’m not willing to play your stupid little word game where you try to semantically differentiate a demographic from the “ideology” that that demographic meaningfully exists and should have the right to pursue happiness in society.
The set of ideas that you refer to includes the ideas that transgender people exist as transgender, and non-binary people exist as non-binary.
The only choice involved in being trans is the choice to let everyone else know (or not). They are a demographic, not an ideology.
How come you’re only defending the people putting this hateful shit on there? You aren’t impressing anybody on here by “seeing both sides” if you’re only seeing the modders side.
Nexus removed a mod that may be (and has obviously been, because otherwise nobody would be making posts about it) perceived as hateful by others and you’re over here defending the modders that put that shit on there because “it’s political” from Nexus to take the obviously political mod down.
On the other hand you’re probably the type preaching about “Well Twitter is allowed to encourage hate speech on their site because it’s their website and they’re allowed to do whatever they want, you don’t have to use it if you feel attacked by that”, but Nexus is not? Nexus’ site-wide rules don’t count because they’re “pushing leftist agenda” by removing mods that were never allowed there to begin with?
“Why should NexusMods care if the mods exist?” why do you care so much if it doesn’t exist any longer? If you feel that attacked by the removal of an anti-pronouns mod you can just make a new one yourself or download it from somewhere else. Or just not give a fuck/be happy like every other normal functioning human being.
Would you care as much as to reply to this post, if they had instead instead removed a mod that added pronouns to a game? Would that not be imposing political views as well then? Or would you just not care because you care more about making non-binary people feel excluded rather than included?
You’re not making a point here. We are making this network a place that is inclusive to people all over the gender spectrum. Defending those that do not, is not making a point.
I do not care to read any more of your replies as your points are easily dismantled even by someone that’s as stupid as I am.
If you do reply, just say yes or no to the following question, that I had posed earlier: Would you care this much if they had removed a mod that added pronouns to a game?
Try to think as hard as you can, I do not want to read any excuse for either answer. Just imagine yourself in that situation and tell me.It’s not hateful shit, and I’m not trying to “see both sides,” either. I have no quarter for gender ideologues. However, I do think that any person or business (that doesn’t have any kind of monopoly status over critical services) has the freedom to refuse to serve anyone they want for any reason they want, so GN is free to take down whatever they want and they don’t really owe any of us an explanation.
And, really, I’m not defending the people who made the mod and put it up. They don’t really need a defense. I’m just pointing out that the removal of it makes GN either petty activists, or scared of the left.
Obviously gender ideologues perceive it as hateful, but so what? Gender ideologues perceive literally anything they disagree with, no matter how slightly as hateful. It’s their entire brand. Would GN host mods for a game if the game itself was “hateful?” Absolutely not. And if a mod whose only function is to remove the ability to arbitrarily select your pronouns is hateful, then why isn’t every single game which is supported on GN that does not offer that functionality considered hateful and have all support for it removed? The answer is simple: GN are petty activists and this is performative.
My views on Twitter (et al) haven’t changed even after its ownership changed hands from someone who I don’t like to someone who I don’t like a little bit less. Not that it’s on-topic, but I think platforms like Twitter need to decide if they are publishers or platforms and then play by the rules set forth for those that they decided to be, no mixing and matching. §230 of Title 47 needs an overhaul.
I really don’t care that much about the mod and this event, in part because I can’t afford the game nor the hardware needed to run it. But, I do have opinions on gender ideology and the behavior of public-facing organizations with respect to gender ideology.
I’ll reiterate my point: GN are petty activists (or afraid of the left).
Yes, I would care the exact same amount. It’s crummy behavior, no matter where it comes from. I can exist in the presence of ideas I don’t agree with. I don’t have the urge to stamp out, by fiat or coercion, every trace of any belief that differs from mine.Tldr, wanted yes/no, fuck off kindly.
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Yes, you did. Don’t lie.
What is a “gender ideologue”?
Another way for him to say “all those things that aren’t white/male/tradwife.”
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Go climb a tree. You’re a stereotype.
More than anything, I wish your kind cared what words mean.
What rock did you sleep under? It’s ALWAYS been a political viewpoint.
is not supposed to be
Then that’s just naive.
Nexus mods has no responsibility to host an asshole’s dickery on their servers.
No one was benefited by your comment.
True, but the act does show everybody that they are political activists. Either that, or they’re afraid of the left. Either way, it’s worth pointing out. It carves out a space for competition.
Good. Let them tell everyone they’re not fascists and dont support them. Most of us will support that.
Be real, the alphabet mafia will go after their ISP and call in bomb threats and get them SWATted.
Do you have a source of this being a thing that has happened in thr past?
True, but the act does show everybody that they are political activists.
Good.
It’s not political activitism to be a half decent human being.
Removing the mod doesn’t make Nexus decent human beings. It makes them petty activists who can’t bear the thought of the existence of people who don’t subscribe to the same ideology as they do.
Meanwhile, you’re a petty commenter who can’t bear the thought of the existence of people who host their own website with their own rules.
Lmao, bruh we already know you’re an asshole, you don’t have to explicitly say you put your ideology above treating people with dignity and respect, we got it.
Please google the “paradox of intolerance.”
Bigroty is not a political opinion. It’s just hate.
Bigotry is a political opinion, but the idea that all political opinions deserve identical respect is really dumb.
Some people’s ideas are bad, actually. It is fine and good to tell them where to shove it.
The kneejerk demand for “civility” confuses polite responses for appropriate responses. Some people are monsters. Some people need to hear, “fuck off.” That is the correct attitude for a worrying number of online interactions, and if moderators won’t step up and proactively remove the bigoted propagandist time-vampires who deserve it, the least they can do is stay out of the way. ‘What you chose to say is fucking awful’ cannot possibly be more of a personal attack than being told ‘everyone like you is inherently broken.’
This has literally nothing to do with politics
It’s literally gender ideology politics. Outside of that, there is zero reason to take down the mod. It harms nobody. It doesn’t even violate their own TOS.
Someone posted the section it violates further up in the thread.
Gender ideology isn’t a political stance, wtf are you talking about?
This is the equivalent of me making a mod that removes all black people and calling it a political statement.
Gender ideology is literally sexual politics. The inclusion of the ability to select your pronouns (as opposed to what, I don’t know, them being fixed according to the sex of the generated character?) is sexual politics. Modding that choice out is sexual politics. Removing the mod is sexual politics. Every action taken by all parties in this story is sexual politics.
Sexual Politics - the principles determining the relationship of the sexes; relations between the sexes regarded in terms of power.
Now, tell me where removing the options for pronouns in a video game fits within that definition.
Apparently you can just add “politics” to the end of anything to try and justify discrimination. My mod that removes all black people from the game is just “race politics”, so it’s okay!
All of gender ideology is sexual politics. It’s an attack on the conceptual model of the sexes as they are intuitively understood — an attempt to hijack the language that is used to describe the sexes in an attempt to push gender ideology into the mainstream.
I’m sorry man, I wish I could help you. But this… I think you’re in a bit too deep.
Nobody is “hijacking” anything, and nobody is forcefully pushing ideologies on anyone. It’s as simple as groups of people wanting to be treated just as well as anyone else - it’s not any more complicated than that.
I hope eventually you find your way out of this.
It does:
Content that may be generally construed as provocative, divisive, objectionable, discriminatory, or abusive toward any real-world individual or group, may be subject to moderation. This includes but is not limited to content involving politics, race, religion, gender identity, sexuality, or social class. We tolerate content related to real world issues and events as long as the appropriate tag (“Real World Issues”) is used and the content is handled in a tasteful, respectful, and non-inflammatory manner. Users who do not wish to see such content should make use of our content blocking feature.
And it is their platform, that’s why they care. They can dictate what is and isn’t allowed there.
They can dictate what is and isn’t allowed there
Having the right to do something does not make doing so inherently justified.
Sure, but the question was why they care, and in this case it very much is justified.
Look I’ve got no skin in the game here, what’s wrong with having a mod that removes a selector in a character creation screen?
I get that some people are upset if they get misgendered or whatever (as I would be…my chosen pronouns just happen to line up with what everyone assumes they are…comfy living) but is it really necessary to force everyone to have a pronoun selection option if they don’t want a pronoun selection option? You’re not going to make someone blinded by hate see any clearer by forcing them to do something that only affects them.
Edit: I’m sorry if my questioning hurt some folks, that wasn’t my intention. I couldn’t see what the big deal was, but thanks to those who made the effort to engage with me, I have a more informed view and I can appreciate why the mod was removed and why its existence was upsetting.
Of course is Kotaku coming with a whole tempest in a teapot over this.
Kotaku is an absolute joke, but that’s not new, they are the laughing stock of game journalism for a reason.
I don’t see the big deal about the pronoun mods. You have to download and install it. Just don’t download the mods.
Tbh I don’t even know why the option even exists. I have 2 days worth of playtime and not once does it go on about pronouns or anything like that. So to me the menu seems completely pointless. If i can recall i also don’t think the NPCs have even referred to me as male or he/him. Maybe Bethesda added it last minute or something to try to appeal to a larger group of people idk. I’m just enjoying my spaceship man.
I’m not super far in, but I have heard it. The first time I remember hearing it is in the opening act when Lin is telling Barrett about you. Also when Sam talks to the marshal about you in Akila City. I suppose there are only so many opportunities for other characters to talk about you while you’re standing right there, but it does pop up, so it’s nice to have the option for those moments.
Do people really care what gender the MC is? I just role play as whatever gender the character is.
If I’m playing Tomb Raider, I am Laura Croft. If I play GTA, I’m CJ or Trevor or whatever. If I’m given a choice, I’ll sometimes look up if the gender matters (e.g. in Mount and Blade it can impact relations), and otherwise just pick randomly. When there’s a character creation screen, I usually randomize it a few times and get into the game.
I wouldn’t mind role playing as a gay or trans person, though I’d be a little worried about the content because I’m not looking for anything with relationships, I want to wreck monsters and solve puzzles.
Most guys choose to be guys when given the choice, for example. Apparently a lot of people do care. Gender fluid, agender people, casgender people, etc may not care or vary more.
Why would I want to stare at a man’s ass and hear his grunts for hours on end.
Idk. Why would someone want to have a man’s ass and voice? Seems weird to me. Yet about half of the world seem to want to be guys. And most of those are happy to be a choose to be a guy when customization is an option. I can’t answer why so many guys consistently and choose to be guys in game (and sometimes have pride in their characters appearance and try to brag about their it) or some tease other people they perceived as guys for choosing to be a girl in-game when I can’t understand why they want to be guys in the first place.
For me, I relate more to those who make fun of themselves for using that excuse because they were in denial. I’ve definitely been there. Of course there are guys (cis or trans) who like playing as girls too; I just can’t relate (aro-ace spec).
Depends on if the character’s supposed to be a self insert. In a game with deep customization you may be trying to make yourself, and not playing as Lara Croft or Geralt, so being able to choose your pronouns helps immersion, and immersion’s a big deal to many players who’ll take it anywhere they can get it in a game, whether it’s pronouns, or being able to see your torso and feet when you look down.
Huh, I guess I never want to insert myself because I’m not that interesting. :) I play games to escape myself, and I really hate seeing my own name show up in games.
But that’s probably more my personality (I hate being publicly praised) than anything else.
But that’s probably more my personality (I hate being publicly praised) than anything else.
Revisit this thought whenever you consider if other people “really care” about something that you don’t instead of questioning whether inclusion is ever “necessary”.
That’s fair.
It’s just not something I have experience with. Even my wife, who likes public validation, also prefers to role play in games.
But that’s the great thing about most RPGs, they have options to get whatever character model you want. So whether I understand people wanting to play as themselves or not is irrelevant. You can make your character look like yourself, I can make my character look random, and a trans person can make their character look like they see themselves. How I choose to make my character look has no impact on anyone else’s experience.
How I choose to make my character look has no impact on anyone else’s experience.
Tell that to the idiots making mods like this. Not that it changes anything for anyone but themselves, but it does promote bullshit bigotry over a menu selection of all things and fully deserves to be shut down.
And none of this is about “public validation”. It’s about having even just one more avenue for people that don’t happen to be cis white males to make a character for themselves that’s more relatable. More options should always be welcome. It hurts nobody and lifts up many.
When you meet Sam & Cora they’ll refer to you by your pronoun while they talk about you.
The whole thing is just to make the character generation non binary, that’s it. I don’t see why this is such a big deal for some people. I’m a cis male, I select a masculine body type and go with he / him, or maybe they / them, and be done with it. It does nothing but help others feel more included.Ohhhh. Wow i never noticed that tbh. I was so focused on trying to win sarah over. Never met a more picky person in my life. Now she resides on europa because she bitches every time i steal or a innocent sounding dialog option makes her mad. Sam is cool every ounce and a while he says something about me stealing but it’s not as annoying. I’ve yet to come across cora. I spend so much time in the ship builder.
You probably would have noticed it if they used the wrong pronouns. Which is why the option exists…
You might’ve missed their initial dialog in the lodge, which happened in that garden area. You can find her typically in the basement where she has her room and she will be on board of your ship if you assign Sam onto it. The kids in Starfield are actually pretty cute and wholesome, unlike the literal spawns of Satan from Skyrim.
Ohhh that kid! I completely ignored that little stinker. I remember her trying to con me out of 50 creds for books. I’m too greedy for that i got ships to build.
I did notice it when creating my character but the only thing I thought was “Oh hey, cool”
Edit: I thought you said you didn’t notice the option even exists but I’ll just leave this here anyways
It was most likely a Marketing/management decision, just a checkbox to fill to show people they “care”.
Or one of the many, many people involved with development suggested it because it applied to them or someone they knew and the decision was made to include it out of respect for the people involved.
Or, maybe, inclusivity is never a bad thing, regardless of your personal level of cynicism. Hate the world all you want, but there are people out there that appreciate and deserve things like this.
Ahh the old “they did the right thing for the wrong reason” argument. Maybe, just maybe, somebody at the company did actually care?
Lmao of kotaku defends this shit
I do not understand this debacle at all. 100% of people against the inclusion of pronouns—USE A PREFERRED PRONOUN. I guarantee if I called one these man children a “her” they’d lose their little minds.
I’m non-binary and I’m afraid to express my gender in public. It’s good to know I should also be afraid to express my gender in a VIDEO GAME (points for realism I guess).
They finally give you something that controls how people refer to you in their games, and dipshits wanna remove it? This is as close as you’re going to get to having characters refer to you as a choice you’ve taken other than Codsworth and Vasco having like 1000 generic names recorded to use.
As someone with a generic name, fuck you!
Does it even affect dialogue? The PC is hardly ever referred to with pronouns, actually I can’t remember a single line.
A security officer referred to me as sir in New Atlantis.
I believe it changes enemy barks like “He/She/They shot him!” and maybe a few dialogue lines?
Heh, I like how the enemies are considerate enough to figure out and use the correct pronouns mid-battle
Hey, you! What are your pronouns? … Thanks, now eat lead!
I might be a paid killer, but I’ll be damned if I’ll misgender someone. Professionals have standards.
They definitely use your pronouns a lot. It’s all they refer to you as, aside from cute nicknames like “Dusty,” or “rook” or “renegade.” Probably doesn’t stand out if you chose your normal pronouns, since they’d just be say he/him or she/her or they/them.
We can’t be far from text-to-speech tweaking a ton of voice acting. Might have to pronounce or IPA your custom name, to get an AI voice to nail it… but maybe it’s better-off being wrong. There’s disarming verisimilitude in schmaltzy NPCs confidently fumbling your character’s name. Or if some characters heard it, but haven’t seen it, and you catch some mutter ‘so that’s how it’s spelled.’
Whether that name is Paarthurnax, Heloise, or Ng.
I am just picturing the orc noble who uses words incorrectly/mispronounces shit. Forgot what those are called, but they have similar characters in most of their games. In Starfield, they even called him “Dumbrosky.” Dumb Bro ski.
Malapropisms.
I mean, I sorta get it. Identity politics are political and often divisive, and some people don’t want it in their escapism.
It’s not a perfect analogy, but if a role-playing game had a mandatory character-selection choice to choose if my character was pro-choice or pro-life, I could see myself mildly resenting it.Not really a good example. A more apt example is if these people were getting angry that the character creator allowed a player to create a woman, or a person of colour. The game offering you a choice of pronouns is not asking you for a political opinion, it’s literally just an option to create a type of character that these people don’t think should exist.
And that’s the crux of it, they aren’t angry about pronouns, they’re angry about trans and non-binary people becoming normalised.
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn’t political. Trans, non-binary, etc is, and normalizing it is political, regardless of if it’s right or wrong. I think that you’re correct and that it seems like something done as ammunition in the Culture War; normalizing identity politics rather than a design decision done out of a necessity to improve the quality of the game apart from that.
My earlier analogy was about having a pro-life/pro-choice option forced on you, but I guess to make it more accurate it would be more like the game just telling you that you’re pro-life as part of your character settings? Because it’s not just putting the politics in the game, it’s taking a strong side. Again, rightly or wrongly, I can see why some people would resent that in their escapism.
being a man, woman, or black person isn’t political
Being a woman isn’t political… until I do it? Kinda seems like there’s no actually valid (sound? I forget the terminology) argument for how our existence is a problem, nor for how supporting or acknowledging our existence is a problem.
I don’t actually quite understand what you’re on about but it kinda seems like you’re arguing that allowing people to play characters that don’t match your preferences exactly is some kind of forced political thing and that’s kinda horsecrap, y’know?
Anyway I’m gonna go exist at that bigot up there now. Byeee ö/
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn’t political.
I agree, they should not be, but people still try and make them political.
Trans, non-binary, etc is
No. Absolutely not. Trans people and non-binary people are types of people who exist. Exactly the same as men, women, people of colour, and so forth. They are no more or less political than those other types of people. People still make them political, but that’s exactly the same thing as with other groups.
My earlier analogy was about having a pro-life/pro-choice option forced on you, but I guess to make it more accurate it would be more like the game just telling you that you’re pro-life as part of your character settings? Because it’s not just putting the politics in the game, it’s taking a strong side. Again, rightly or wrongly, I can see why some people would reset that in their escapism.
You are mistaken. There is no political opinion here. None is being asked for, and none is being assigned. The character creator having additional options is just allowing players to make trans or non-binary characters. This isn’t asking you for a political opinion, it’s simply adding options to create more types of characters.
Which is why the bigots are upset. Because they don’t think those types of characters should be allowed to be made.
Whether or not it should be, isn’t LGBT issues political/controversial?
As are women and people of colour, and their inclusion in media. These are all demographics of people. There is no difference.
There’s no difference between a movie casting a woman/black man as the main character, compared to casting a trans person?
Whether or not it should be, isn’t LGBT issues political/controversial?
Simply acknowledging LGBT exist
- isn’t political
- helps make it less political
Of course it’s political. Politics aren’t just about things where there can be legitimate disagreement.
Acknowledging climate change is political. So is everything from basic public transport, better healthcare to if sexism and racism are even a thing.
It shouldn’t be. We also shouldn’t have a resurgence of actual fascists. But we do and it is.
Fuck off forever
The best bigots are the ones that tell on themselves, dontcha think?
Aside from you being transphobic, you should realize that the people complaining about pronouns are also the people who complain about the “replaced white people” and “female leaders” in the game. So I guess black people and women are also political, by your logic?
I guess my existence is “political” then, I guess I can’t exist in a space without having something “forced” on people.
We were male/female, now we’re women/men/other, that’s it. It’s a personal matter that we go through and we want to simply exist. That’s only “political” when your dealing with people who actively want to harm our rights. I cannot stress enough that these people shouldn’t be treated with respect as if they’re not trying to destroy people for a simple personal choice.
Trans people: Exist
Brainlets: “Is this politics??”
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn’t political. Trans, non-binary, etc is, and normalizing it is political, regardless of if it’s right or wrong.
Women and black people getting the right to vote and be treated equally has always been “political” you fucking jackass.
I wouldn’t. I mean, I hate Nazis but I don’t mind a game where I can choose to play as one (so long as the context makes sense like it’s a multiplayer WW2 game or Diso Elysium). It’s a fuckin’ choice. If you don’t like one of the options: Choose a different one.
Terrible analogy. It’s just turning the binary male / female into non binary body types & pronouns to be more inclusive for those who fall outside the norm on the spectrum of things.
Moderation exists to identify and exclude people who are being absolute cocks.
You don’t need any grand philosophical statement about values. You don’t need to defend the paradox of tolerance against absolutist demands for unrestricted expression. It’s perfectly fine to say: you were doing some diet Nazi shit, that’s awful, fuck off.
So there was a modification that remove pronouns, and they removed it, because it was “bigoted”…?
I’m so very confused as to what’s happening here…
Why would a “bigot” make a mod like that, and why would anyone care?
