Except when the top half of the World Trade Center just stays hanging in the air.

Honestly, it’s a very known and discussed book within the climate justice movement and won’t put you on any list. Btw: there is also a movie on archive.org I think.

And I mean to google in a general sense, not necessarily on the page with the same way.

Radical? Sure. Terrorist? Nah. Liberals (and especially right wing libs) are violent towards marginalized groups and literally the planet itself, among others. Marxists, anarchists, etc. are violent towards capitalism and those who seek to uphold it. Revolution takes shape in many ways and some of those are violent, particularly towards the end. Don’t act like the system we’re living in isn’t abhorrent and violent. Politics in all of its forms boil down to violence. What are you seeking to build, what needs to be destroyed, who stands in your way, and what means are you able to use? That’s politics in a nutshell. Answer those questions for the majority of governments the world over and then answer them for your left wing Boogeyman of choice. Which sounds like it’s worth fighting for?

Funny how the people who want to harm the oil companies are “terrorists,” but the people literally destroying the earth are not

This is actually a popular misconception. MLK was just as radical as Malcolm X, it’s just that his more radical writings and speeches are not as popular or quoted. Libs and conservatives both want you to believe that MLK was a reasonable progressive liberal, when in fact he despised them. I say this as a huge fan of both MLK and Malcolm X, and I had this explained to me initially by a professor of African American history at university.

Another way to say it is that every movement needs a carrot, a stick, and an ultimatum. The carrot is evangelizing the injustice (MLK), the stick is direct action (Malcolm X), and the ultimatum is an implicit show of force and dedication that demonstrates how many people will resort to the stick if the carrot is not accepted (the mach on Washington).

While I am nearly always in the peaceful outreach camp, I strongly suspect that my efforts will not see fruition until breathless WSJ editorials start describing environmentalists as “dangerous” and “unamerican.”

I was thinking I want just 4 or 5 kw of storage. Also wanting an electric car to plug in but that’s another coat I’m not ready to dive into. Ugh.

I mostly agree with this. Companies only pollute as part of their process for making whatever good or service it is that they sell. They only sell those goods or services because people are buying. If suddenly everybody stopped buying and switched 100% to growing their own crops, the pollution from corporations would drop to zero. Not because they’d suddenly care about the environment, but because you don’t spew out a ton of CO2 making a widget if nobody’s buying widgets.

Having said that, corporations are optimized to produce as much profit as possible. If it’s cheaper to run a plant on coal and they can get away with it, they’ll do it.

As consumers, we have no real way to audit a company’s supply chain. Even a government would have trouble doing it since most supply chains are international. If I honestly wanted to buy the most ethically-created widget out there, I’d have to trust a lot of people’s stories about where everything comes from. And, because corporations know how hard it is to audit their supply chains, they’re incentivized to save any bucks they can, even if that means massive pollution, massive suffering, and so-on.

Then there’s lobbying. It would be nice if the government passed a law that required audited supply chains, but the government won’t because it’s corrupt. Evil government. But, the government won’t pass anything like that because corporations will lobby against it and bribe politicians to make sure it never happens. Evil corporations. But, the money corporations have to lobby / bribe comes from their revenues, which come from people buying their goods and services. Evil consumers. But, consumers don’t know which corporations are lobbying and bribing because there’s no audit trail. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was a law requiring audit trails…

Fundamentally, we can only do what we can do. Part of that is admitting we’re part of the problem. If you own an F-150 for status, not because you move heavy things often, you’re a big part of the problem. If you live in a part of the world where you need central heating in the winter, you’re part of the problem. If you run air conditioning in the summer, you’re part of the problem. If you use a car (even an electric one) instead of public transit, you’re part of the problem. If you buy potato chips in a plastic bag, you’re part of the problem. If you eat meat, you’re part of the problem. If you have kids, you’re a huge part of the problem. If you watch sports, you’re part of the problem.

I would bet my entire life that if most people had the opportunity to pay more for a greener product/greener service, they would still choose the cheaper/worse for environment option.

Yeah that’s the point. We know people will choose the cheaper option even if it fucks up their future.

Some oil refineries getting exploded would result in the “worse for the environment” option to be more expensive than the green option. Now I don’t think we’re at that point yet, but without significant changes, in a few years we may reach the point where blowing up a refinery is the only way for people to have a chance for survival.

It doesn’t have to be an extreme like that. It would send a strong message If every gas station had to replace their LCD screens every week, or the windows of their headquarters.

But I guess non-action and bootlicking while we wait for our thoroughly bribed politicians to do nothing is better.

But pumping the gas is the action, and stopping is inaction.

Holy fuck, you’re actually defending someone blind enough to allow themself to be murdered with poisonous gas.

There’s no way you aren’t either some concern troll or a paid shill.

So you think the reasonable person is the one that wants to sit around debating who’s fault it is while gas is still pumped into the room is the reasonable person?

We shouldn’t damage that gas pump because an underpaid worker installed it? We don’t want to be a nuisance! SSSSSSssssssssssssss…

Oil prices rising won’t just affect cars that run on petroleum products. All your electricity bill will probably rise as well unless power in your area is 100% provided by renewable energy.

Even then, most renewable energy still rely on fossil fuel to run the vehicles for transporting and maintaining their infrastructure, so now even that cost would sharply increase.

Talking about EVs, just which EV companies have eliminated the involvement of any fossil fuel in their supply line? Unless we have enough of these supply lines, EV prices will also increase for the majority of people.

Yeah I get that you’re an asshole that doesn’t believe in anything. You just like hurting other people and pick whatever cause allows you to do so.

Given you’re a professional asshole, why should anyone give a shit about you?

So you’ve chosen your side in this. No one needs to feel bad about the problems it’ll cause for you if and when it comes time to start blowing up refineries.

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The clear answer is yes. This is exactly like the people who say they won’t be allies anymore if we LGBT+ people aren’t polite enough.

No halfway decent person who isn’t a steaming pile of excrement would be deterred by such a protest. That user’s take stems from discourse specifically designed to shut down protests, and it’s imperative that we do not let it work.

So no, the “dude” doesn’t have a “point.” It’s all horseshit. Shut them down immediately when they start flapping their pie hole with that shit.

Protests are supposed to be disruptive. Standing in traffic is disruptive. What’s the problem?

I disagree with you

Wait, about what? Are you saying that shooting people in the head is more effective in dealing with climate change that blowing up oil pipelines?

I think if we stop using oil hundreds of millions will starve in days

I agree with this, and I never said we should stop using oil. I think we should definitely use less though. We should try to use as little as possible. We will still need plastics for medical stuff.

Just don’t use violence because you don’t have a monopoly on it, we all can do it.

A lot of people are about to die due to climate change. I think if you want them to not do violence, you had better start convincing them that they have a shot to survive this. Telling them that violence is bad is not going to do it. Honestly, blowing up a few pipes is pretty low price, all things considered. Things have the possibility to get much worse than some property damage.

I would 100% prefer that governments take action to slow down oil production and push hard for more climate friendly policies, but they are not.

Facts don’t care about your feelings

You’re already sharing violence, by threatening people who would defend themselves from aggressors.

But since you don’t care, are done discussing this nonsense, and are intellectually honest, I’m sure I won’t see a foolish reply defending that aggression further.

Does self-defense count as violence? Because forcefully dismantling the oil infrastructure can save lives and it would be nonviolent as long as the police don’t start with their violence.

Does self-defense count as violence? Because forcefully dismantling the oil infrastructure can save lives.