- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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I wouldn’t call it a hot take
i guess explosive take fits better
I did it, and so can you, Jack!
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That would only make you feel good. It would not make real change.
I’m frustrated that I want to get a full off the grid solar setup but then it’ll cost 25K and won’t really offset itself until 10 years or more. I’ll feel good about being net zero in home energy usage but that is not a cost that the average person can afford.
It’ll be more than $25k. A battery alone is $10k, and a 10kw system is more than $25k.
Take a look at a year’s worth of electricity bills to see what size you actually need to hit zero. Consider where a future EV fits in.
I was thinking I want just 4 or 5 kw of storage. Also wanting an electric car to plug in but that’s another coat I’m not ready to dive into. Ugh.
Size refers to how many solar panels you have and their efficiency. Try https://sunroof.withgoogle.com but I think that site undersizes and expects you to pull some from the grid.
Am I the only one who thinks this is funny? It’s a joke people.
Google “How to Blow up a Pipeline” by Andreas Malm
I’m PRETTY sure that’s a “incognito mode and several kinds of privacy guarding software” kind of search better suited for a search engine that isn’t also a US government contractor 😄
Honestly, it’s a very known and discussed book within the climate justice movement and won’t put you on any list. Btw: there is also a movie on archive.org I think.
And I mean to google in a general sense, not necessarily on the page with the same way.
Yeah, I actually knew all that (except for the last one, which I halfway expected), but I can seldom resist feigning ignorance for a joke 😉
Is it? Is it really? Should it be?
Am I the only person who remembers how we already decided that some jokes are very dangerous? You get some impressionable twenty something thinking everyone is serious…
checks community name
If they think memes are factual, they need better life skills/Education
You mean c/memes isn’t the place for serious political discussion?
Private Minecraft servers are the best place to plan and practice terrorist attacks.
Except when the top half of the World Trade Center just stays hanging in the air.
Spicy takes are the best takes though, op
Which is why extremism continues to rise
And that’s a good thing. We need a revolution like yesterday, ten years ago really.
If the revolution comes, I can pretty much guarantee you’re not gonna see the end of it.
Always blows my mind that you people think you’ll somehow survive the war you encourage happening lol
Who said I would? I never did. I did not ever even think it. I support it because I care about my family and future generations. Fighting a revolution is a sacrifice you make for other people and is therefore the highest of moral acts.
The fact that you’d even say that shows how selfish and cowardly you are.
You can’t have the old world anymore. Your world requires exploiting the rest of us and you don’t have the right to do that. Make your own goddamn Big Macs.
More of a peaceful revolution kinda guy if possible but hard to do these days with how dire some things are getting.
I have a good feeling such revolutionaries would only fuel the oppositions fire
It doesn’t actually matter what they or others think and that’s a lesson I as well as other revolutionaries have had to learn the hard way over the years.
Public support has been made impossible to secure with the collapse of the education system and propaganda designed to convince Americans to reject education and learning.
So it’ll be up to the few people who managed to resist it to either revolt, or try to escape.
Public support has been made impossible to secure
Definitely a sign you’re going to win a war.
Definitely something you genuinely care about and totally not you looking to push pro status quo bullshit.
i’ll never need to care because this is just a fantasy you console yourself with while not actually doing anything helpful
What of the police state though? How can revolutionaries stay out of the gulags in order to fight these revolutions you speak of.
I don’t believe in the extreme, tired ways of the retirees of the world. There’s plenty of smart routes to change that don’t require being thrown in jail.
We live in the technical age, one hacking group took out most of Las Vegas slots. Anything is possible through though and intelligent action. Stupid violence leads to unnecessary death.
While these idiots are advocating for a revolution they’ll neither participate in not be effective if they did, the rest of the world will just keep innovating it’s way out of problems.
People like the dude you’re replying to are the worst kind of useless. They’re the kind of person buying Powerball tickets to try to get out of debt.
Yet they seem effective enough that you are regarding them as a threat, hence you’re investing all that time and energy you’re supposedly putting toward innovation into arguing with people like me on the Internet.
Bail fund. Physically bust open the jails. Attack police and liberate people from arrest. You know, the usual.
I agree with you that white-collar tactics should be a part of the revolutionary’s repertoire of government -overthrowing tactics, but honestly, I don’t see how it’s possible to completely avoid getting physical with those cretins at some point.
Most violence is actually intelligent. They’re never mutually exclusive.
Por que no los dos?
en fecto!
You first coward.
So we’re acknowledging that it’s mostly a coordination problem.
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Honestly this would speed up the process of transitioning away from FF.
A bunch of people would die early.
Not gonna lie, it’s way past too late to really be able to spare human life from the effects of climate change. A revolution likely won’t even be enough at this point.
Yep. I was learning about the actions we need(ed) to take like 25+ years ago in elementary school. But we didn’t take any of those actions and instead added 2.5 billion to the population.
Great job guys!
Compared to the bunch of people that die early currently because of pollution?
a small price to pay for salvation
Your family and you first, then I believe you believed your idiotic comment.
huh, never heard of sarcasm? or quoting a movie?
More than a billion?
Versus the millions who will be killed by climate change?
The problem is millions die, government’s are no longer able to govern and popularist war lords gain power in the chaos which results in huge conflicts that cause far more ecological damage without any measures or efforts to remedy them - we still get clomate change but probably sooner and worse.
Also let me ask the people here with children who among you would let your child freeze to death and who would chop down a tree to burn? The ecological damage done by a civilization collapse would be intense, we’re too close to the edge to risk that - maybe if it’d fallen at the start of the Industrial revolution but how long would it have been until that technology comes back and we’re right where we are?
We need to change society and evolve new technology, the later is actually doing really well with many giant leaps for climate friendly technologies and infrastructure but society is proving to be very resistant, people aren’t going to create a new greener world if they get angry at the very idea of being told to reduce, reuse, recycle.
Why would government fall over? They have police and military to keep/restore order
Anyway out of the violent methods I prefer a slower method where selective vandalism pushes away investment and insurance, so the fleets of diesel ships can be slowly replaced; so city energy can slowly adapt
Capital is already doing all the things you seem to want done, only without the terrorism.
But stuff like pipeline infrastructure, could be used for transporting hydrogen as ammonia in the future.
GOD I LOVE TERRORISM
I’d like just a little terrorism and murder, just enough to scare off investors and insurers from fossil fuel producers, refiners, distributors and mass users, to speed things up and maybe prevent the uncountable future deaths from failed monsoons, heat waves, overpowered storms, and eventually sea level rises
problem is the terrorists aren’t liberals, they’re accelerationists who want a civil war.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/10/power-grid-attacks-00114563
You’re probably gonna make it worse for everyone. It’s probably more profitable to have more security around the infrastructure than to just abandon it, so that’s more expensive. You’re gonna make it more difficult to convince people to actually believe in climate change and legislation that helps the cause, since the climate movement is associated with terrorism.
Just vote for the candidates that actually care about the climate and invest in preserving it. You can also help a little bit by using things that have a very low carbon footprint over its lifetime, like an electric car or using public transportation. These things are just off the top of my head but terrorism ain’t it.
Just vote for the candidates that actually care about the climate
I vote green. Americans can’t unless they’re willing to throw their vote away
You can also help a little bit by using things that have a very low carbon footprint over its lifetime
Cars are a tiny fraction of a country’s carbon footprint
- Energy (electricity, heat and transport): 73.2%
- Direct Industrial Processes: 5.2%
- Waste: 3.2%
- Agriculture, Forestry and Land Use: 18.4%
Energy includes road transport which is 11.9%, of which cars+motorbikes+buses is 60% so 7.4% overall
Animal agriculture is about the same as passenger transport
My EV is a drop in the bucket. Only fossil fuel investors and governments can move the needle
Carbon numbers are from https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector
I vote green. Americans can’t unless they’re willing to throw their vote away
Not necessarily, you can vote for someone who invests in nuclear over someone who invests back into coal
Cars are a tiny fraction of a country’s carbon footprint
Maybe, but there are other steps that you can take to minimize your print. Something like a solar array. Sure these are very small steps but they aren’t a money sink like they used to be and if enough people adopt them, they could do something.
It’s not terrorism, it’s 🌟🌍ecoterrorism🌎🌟
I’d be much more likely to support and sympathize with a group blowing up fossil fuel infrastructure than standing in the fucking road, blocking traffic.
Until gasoline became unavailable (while still being needed by billions of people) because of terrorism instead of a more reasonable approach.
Gasoline won’t become unavailable. There is too much redundancy built into the production and distribution networks.
What would happen is the price of gasoline would rise, which would further drive electric vehicle adoption.
OP’s approach is infinitely superior to harassing drivers directly.
Oil prices rising won’t just affect cars that run on petroleum products. All your electricity bill will probably rise as well unless power in your area is 100% provided by renewable energy.
Even then, most renewable energy still rely on fossil fuel to run the vehicles for transporting and maintaining their infrastructure, so now even that cost would sharply increase.
Talking about EVs, just which EV companies have eliminated the involvement of any fossil fuel in their supply line? Unless we have enough of these supply lines, EV prices will also increase for the majority of people.
Very few electric plants burn petroleum products. Fossil fuel plants typically burn either coal or natural gas, neither of which would be significantly affected by disruption of oil-based infrastructure.
Natural gas is a petroleum product.
🤔 Okay, let’s hack the banks, redistribute all of the money electronically and then pay for electric infrastructure ourselves.
Why not support both?
Giving the general public and the oil companies a common enemy. It’s a bold move, Cotton.
Ohno, people who are being systemically killed are making you late for work! Time to turn against them
The dude has a point whether we like it or not. Public support makes a difference. Losing it is a cost. Is what they’re accomplishing worth that cost?
Protests are supposed to be disruptive. Standing in traffic is disruptive. What’s the problem?
Protests are supposed to raise awareness and motivate people to join their cause. These particular protests are turning away far more people from this cause than they are gaining.
These protests are ideal for promoting stricter laws against jaywalking and unlawful detention, but not so much for reducing the use of fossil fuels.
anyone who’s not already on board the climate change cause is either too stupid or too rich to care. neither of which can be fixed.
None of that is a justification for obstructing traffic.
Implying you need much of a justification to block traffic
The problem is studies have demonstrated it’s counterproductive both in the popular debate and at driving policy, it can actually set back the green movement.
Just because you agree with their idealism doesn’t mean you need to agree with their behaviour, if I burn tires to get awareness for climate change that isn’t something a sensible person supports
The clear answer is yes. This is exactly like the people who say they won’t be allies anymore if we LGBT+ people aren’t polite enough.
No halfway decent person who isn’t a steaming pile of excrement would be deterred by such a protest. That user’s take stems from discourse specifically designed to shut down protests, and it’s imperative that we do not let it work.
So no, the “dude” doesn’t have a “point.” It’s all horseshit. Shut them down immediately when they start flapping their pie hole with that shit.
No halfway decent person who isn’t a steaming pile of excrement would be deterred by such a protest.
You assume there are significantly more “halfway decent people” than “steaming piles of excrement”. If your assumption were true, we would have abandoned fossil fuels in favor of electric vehicles at least 40 years ago, and wouldn’t be having this argument today. Humanity leans far more to the “excrement” side of this particular debate.
You need the support of quite a lot of the people you describe as “steaming piles of excrement”, and all you’re doing is driving them straight to the first politician who says “I’ll lock up every last one of these asshole protesters as soon as they step in the street” while taking the money of every oil tycoon on the planet.
No, OP’s idea is infinitely superior to those jobless, orange-coated jackasses.
You don’t actually need public support to shut down fossil fuel infrastructure if your supporters are organized and willing to perish over it. The doomers actually do have large enough numbers that they could organize and set up their own militias if they really wanted to. Hell, the right wing nutjobs do it all the time.
If.
There are a lot of people willing to do jail time over it.
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Yes, that’s an accurate summary of what I just said.
The only thing those idiots are likely to accomplish is stronger laws against jaywalking.
When an oil refinery blows up and gasoline prices are suddenly 8x what they are now are you going to be saying “OMG why did they do this without any kind of warning”?
Consider the possibility that blocking traffic, throwing paint on paintings and yachts, the orange dust, etc. might be a warning. If your commute is being blocked, use that time to think about what your plan will be when you can no longer afford to put gasoline in your car. Put emotion aside and think about how you would logically solve that problem. Because you might have to soon enough.
If your commute is being blocked, use that time to think
I use that time to think about bills classifying intentional obstruction of traffic to be unlawful detention.
So you’ve chosen your side in this. No one needs to feel bad about the problems it’ll cause for you if and when it comes time to start blowing up refineries.
Correct. The problems of a blown up refinery will affect the oil producers first. The problems of obstructing traffic will affect the oil producers never.
Picket the oil infrastructure. Make it expensive and unreliable, and consumers will gravitate away from it. The problems it will cause are not a big, but a feature.
It could be said that blocking traffic benefits oil producers by increasing gasoline usage and making people less sympathetic to the cause against them. Wasn’t there a case of someone in the oil industry paying people to protest in a similarly asinine way?
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Haha so you’re a racist asshole that expects people to be sympathetic to your personal hardships? You don’t deserve any sympathy.
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Yeah I get that you’re an asshole that doesn’t believe in anything. You just like hurting other people and pick whatever cause allows you to do so.
Given you’re a professional asshole, why should anyone give a shit about you?
If you think blowing up a pipeline is a good thing because it feels like you’re saving the world, can I blow your head with a gun because I think that without oil people will starve?
See, when you want to use violence, I assure you that you won’t win, especially the simps that support violence for climate nonsense don’t know how to fire a pistol. Let’s be civilized and avoid violence and aggression.
Maybe you should learn how to convince people with your ideas, regardless of how stupid, ridiculous, immoral, uneducated and propagandized they are.
The excessive pollution is aggression. More people will die from climate change than from lack of oil, regardless of what you think.
In my opinion, you said a very stupid thing and I don’t care about your opinion. I’m done discussing dumb climate change nonsense. So, as long as you’re not using violence, I don’t give a shit what you think as you’re free to think all the stupid things you want, otherwise, I’ll share the violence you’re causing with you.
You’re already sharing violence, by threatening people who would defend themselves from aggressors.
But since you don’t care, are done discussing this nonsense, and are intellectually honest, I’m sure I won’t see a foolish reply defending that aggression further.
You’re already sharing violence, by threatening people who would defend themselves from aggressors.
Given this level of stupidity that I interpret as “you’re not tolerant because you don’t tolerate my intolerance”, I guess we reached an impasse. And I’m not speaking just for this post, but in real cases where real violence is involved. You mind your own business, and I’ll mind mine, and that’s how peace is maintained. I have zero sympathy for anyone attempting violence then getting killed.
lol no polluters are not just like gay people
Facts don’t care about your feelings
You’re stupid for believing these are facts, so I don’t care.
There’s no believing in that climate change is going to kill significantly more people as it ramps up in the second half of this century; it will regardless of what we believe. Your opinion is the only stupid thing here
You’re brainwashed and dumb. I don’t care what you think. You believe all the nonsense you want, just stay away from us, the people who understand power-grab and how it works. You fuck up your countries as much as you want, and again, stay away from us, and we’ll be laughing when you have no more food.
The moment you use violence, we will too. No more “discussion”. Fuck that. I’m done pretending people like you aren’t retarded. I encourage everyone to treat those retards like this.
🥱
Without doing a moral calculation, what I can say is that shooting people in the head is less effective in dealing with climate change then blowing up oil pipelines.
Blowing up oil pipelines will make it more expensive for oil companies to do business. This will decrease the amount of oil production which will directly effect how much CO2 is put into the atmosphere.
How effective will it be? Will it stop climate change? Those questions are unknowable at this point in time. But it is pretty clear that we’re getting to a point where lots of people are going to start dying due to climate change.
I disagree with you, and I think if we stop using oil hundreds of millions will starve in days.
Do I care what you think? No, I don’t give two shits about your opinion on climate change. I’m done discussing it. However, you’re free to have all the stupid opinions you want. Just don’t use violence because you don’t have a monopoly on it, we all can do it.
I disagree with you
Wait, about what? Are you saying that shooting people in the head is more effective in dealing with climate change that blowing up oil pipelines?
I think if we stop using oil hundreds of millions will starve in days
I agree with this, and I never said we should stop using oil. I think we should definitely use less though. We should try to use as little as possible. We will still need plastics for medical stuff.
Just don’t use violence because you don’t have a monopoly on it, we all can do it.
A lot of people are about to die due to climate change. I think if you want them to not do violence, you had better start convincing them that they have a shot to survive this. Telling them that violence is bad is not going to do it. Honestly, blowing up a few pipes is pretty low price, all things considered. Things have the possibility to get much worse than some property damage.
I would 100% prefer that governments take action to slow down oil production and push hard for more climate friendly policies, but they are not.
Blowing up pipelines doesn’t kill anyone. I know you think property damage is worse than murder, but sane people don’t think that.
By the same logic, climate change doesn’t kill anyone.
Sir, this is [email protected]
Yeah, right. Go try to make a joke about blowing up airplanes in the airport then tell me “sorry, I was joking”. We don’t joke about violence without acknowledging it’s wrong.
There is an appropriate place for coordinated political violence and it’s absolutely never, officer ;)
I mean if removing people from the equation is on the table then targeting billionaires with a carbon footprint of small nations would be the logical place to start.
That aside, this meme is calling for collective violent action against infrastructure. Your example is an individual violent action against a person.
Don’t care. Violence will lead to violence.
Does self-defense count as violence? Because forcefully dismantling the oil infrastructure can save lives and it would be nonviolent as long as the police don’t start with their violence.
Killing someone who will blow up oil pipes counts as saving lives too. Without oil people starve and hundreds of millions will die. It’s a matter of perspective.
Violence is wrong. Period.
Does self-defense count as violence? Because forcefully dismantling the oil infrastructure can save lives.
the likelihood of u blowing off op’s head is as high as the likelihood of anyone here blowing up an oil pipeline
I think that’s another point trying to be made by the above comment…
Totally agree.
Btw, I prefer chacha20 🙃 … you’re obsolete!
