- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
I’m furious it didn’t succeed.
“We’re trying to have those conversations with Elon to establish what the sensors would need to do,” Baglino added. “And they were really difficult conversations, because he kept coming back to the fact that people have just two eyes and they can drive the car.”
But people have human brains, unlike Teslas or their CEO. Conversely, goldfish have two eyes, yet cannot drive a car.
I was just about to mention the goldfish “driving the tank” robotics project. I’m still betting it was inspired by the old joke:
There are two goldfish in a tank. One says “How the hell do you drive this thing?”
What a fantastic day to have eyes
We have two identical forward looking eyes for stereo vision. As far as I know, Tesla’s don’t even have that. They’re all different cameras with different angles. These cars drive like someone with one eye closed.
The assassination coordinates are coming from inside the building
Well, yes. Because it specifically happened to him. He doesn’t care about everyone else.
This is the reality of safety engineering: he will go on for days about his statistics that say it is safer to drive a Tesla, but when it is you that rolls a nat 1, suddenly they aren’t safe enough.
This it the reality of right-wing neuropathy. Republicans will go on for days about how checks and balances (regulations) are bad and being successful and safe is about personal responsibility. But when something bad happens to them, suddenly the entire system is bad and should have been keeping them safe. Musk’s complete lack of empathy shows in his hubris and his political associations.
Typical conservative.
Oh noes…
Looks like autopilot have developed consciousness. Does it drink beer? Can we be friends?
we were so close
“We’re trying to have those conversations with Elon to establish what the sensors would need to do,” Baglino added. “And they were really difficult conversations, because he kept coming back to the fact that people have just two eyes and they can drive the car.”
Yes, and people crash cars all the time Elon…
If you want an autopilot with the failure rate of a human, then you might only need two eyes. If you want an autopilot with a near zero failure rate, you need much better telemetry data
A person approaching on foot or a bicycle from my right side at the coincidentally perfect speed can accidentally stay within both my human eyes’ blind spots (behind the support pillar) as I come to a stop at a 4-way. I have learned I need to crane around a bit before proceeding, or their frightened and angry face will suddenly lurch into view too close for comfort. The robot must be designed to have zero blind spots because humans are ridiculously good at hiding in them. Especially the little humans.
Is Elin really this dense? People have two eyes and milions of years of evolution behind them.
We tamed massive animals to use them as means of transportation, ffs.
He’s the epitome of Cognitive Bias. He knoes a little, enough to think he knows enough, but not to recognise just how much there actually is to know. His own narcissism¹ and self-image as a genius would never allow him to critically reflect and question whether he might be wrong.
He’s like the type of engineer that will abstract a premise to a concise and calculable model, solve the problem on paper, then assume the rest is implementation details. Except he doesn’t even do the modeling - he takes the layman’s approach to technology and biology where he assumes that it should be doable to replicate what biology does with machines.
Nevermind that biology is still flawed and you’d have to significantly outdo biology for a technology to reach public acceptance.
¹I’m not a psychiatrist nor familiar enough with him to actually diagnose a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but his behaviour lines up with my lay understanding of it, so I’ll use that shorthand. The irony of applying my own lay understanding while criticising his is not lost on me, but I hold that my assessment doesn’t put anyone’s life at risk.
Yes he is
And so does a chimpanzee.
I wish people would talk about this, but Elon really isn’t that smart and he certainly isn’t a genius. I learned a long time ago that smart is relative and really shouldn’t be foisted onto people. Elon has a BA in Physics from a school known for business degrees. He also got a BS in Business, but UPenn and Wharton are known more for how hard it is to get in than how hard the classes are.
The website CollegeVine says UPenn is known as the “Social Ivy” and “UPenn’s admissions is highly-selective, but students applying to the UPenn College of Arts & Science (CAS) will find it less academically competitive than schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford (although exceptional academics are still a must).”
By the way, he started college in 1990, transfered to UPenn in 1992, and states he graduated in 1995, but UPenn refutes that saying he graduated in 1997. This is a school where 96% of those who are accepted graduate within 150% of the degree time (4 year degree within 6 years) (https://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/edu/215062/university-of-pennsylvania/graduation/).
Musk of course says he completed the courses in 1995, but there was some sort of mixup with an English and History credit that delayed the degree by 2 years.
Our heads are just loaded with sensory capabilities that are more than just the two eyes. Our proprioception, balance, and mental mapping allows us to move our heads around and take in visual data from almost any direction at a glance, and then internally model that three dimensional space as the universe around us. Meanwhile, our ears can process direction finding for sounds and synthesize that information with our visual processing.
Meanwhile, the tactile feedback of the steering wheel, vibration of the actual car (felt by the body and heard by the ears), give us plenty of sensory information for understanding our speed, acceleration, and the mechanical condition of the car. The squeal of tires, the screech of brakes, and the indicators on our dash are all part of the information we use to understand how we’re driving.
Much of it is trained through experience. But the fact is, I can tell when I have a flat tire or when I’m hydroplaning even if I can’t see the tires. I can feel inclines or declines that affect my speed or lateral movement even when there aren’t easy visual indicators, like at night.
Just adding to your point, when F1 drivers were asked to play a racing sim, they could not perform like real life because they said no matter how good the sim is, it doesn’t provide the feedback of a real car.
To be fair, 98% of drivers seem to barely be able to hold a straight line and can’t see past the end of their hood, let alone do shoulder checks and be able to hear anything over the stereo turned up to 11. So I’d take my chances with the half-baked autopilot that can at least discern what a red light looks like.
I followed one gentleman for about 10 blocks before he stopped and I could tell him that he was missing the entire tire on the rear left of his car. There were a lot of sparks and metal screeching. Not a clue.
Anybody else remember the now-removed Tesla blog post from 2016 arguing that FSD will require LIDAR? Idk why they’ (Elon) are so stubborn about it. It can see through fog and darkness . Add that data to their model and they would probably already be near deployment readiness of real FSD.
Automotive lidar costs around $500-1000 to add to a car.
That’s it. That’s the whole reason.
Well we perform pretty well with just two eyes, but the difference is that we are a highly skilled general pattern recognition machine that you just can’t recreate in software yet. A few lines diverging with a bigger and smaller circle under it? Guess that’s a truck going that way. Oh the lines are changing angles? Holy shit the truck is coming into this lane!!
And people turn their heads, move their eyes across their windshield, change focus to look ahead or closer, look in their mirrors, listen for sounds (emergency vehicles, car honks, etc), are able to do things like look through gaps and other car windows to adjust to partial obstructions.
The fact that he doesn’t realize you need a multitude of sensors to do even a little bit of what a human can do tells you all you need to know about Elon’s so called brilliance.
Even the social aspect of driving eludes him. You and another driver come up to a 4 way stop at the same time, crossing paths. They wave you on to be polite. You wave back and go first. How and when does he plan to handle that behavior?
if it isn’t your turn the car waits, ignores wave, and after a long wait pulls forward very slowly or only if the driver takes over
Or the asocial, where you come up to a stop sign, look right, see a guy coming way too fast to stop in time, and don’t go till after he’s blown through the intersection
When BMW comes up with their autopilot, it will handle that situation by ignoring all social cues, or even road rules for that matter and just doing what it likes regardless of anyone else on the road. It will also probably have a little rubber hand permanently giving the middle finger, which can extend and retract from the front of the hood, where the little ornaments used to go.
Homicidal Autopilot, the hero that tried to save us.
So he demanded that the driver assistance software be as safe as possible before public release? paving the way for full self driving 6-7 years later? is this a bad thing?
If he demanded it was as safe as possible, he wouldn’t have refused to add lidar or radar capabilities.
every technology add reduces affordability. the key is to strike the balance between cost and capability.
as ‘safe as possible’ would be provide a car with 6 inches of wrapped armor with it’s own driver service where they pay someone to sit in the car 24/7, and that’s ridiculous. hell, that wouldn’t even save you from the cheapest missile, we’re a long way from ‘as safe as possible’
#fuckyourdividends
i hear: #FuckAffordableEVs
Evs don’t have to drive themselves.
That’s not an EV specific thing. Hundreds of people will die TODAY in traffic related accidents, EV or not. We need to shift away from human drivers entirely.
Unless every last vehicle on the road is suddenly converted to cooperative autonomous systems, the human element and unpredictability will still be present. Even then, wildlife, pedestrians, and unpredictable events will pose a challenge to autonomous vehicles.
In a perfect world, FSD would help. In the real world, Tesla’s FSD is a beta feature being spearheaded by a stubborn egomaniac that thinks he knows better than the people actually doing the engineering work. And frankly, I’d rather not spend my money for the privilege of being driven into the side of a concrete barrier down the highway because somebody wants to cut costs and place style above function.
Exactly. Also lidar is important in instances where you need millimeter precision. Its useful for calibrating camera systems in self driving cars but in order to drive safely you don’t need that level of detail about the world around the car. It makes no difference if a car or pedestrian is 72 or 73 inches away.
For a multi-ton metal projectile that drives itself (a car), you want multiple data sources to draw a consensus from. Relying on one data source is a point of failure, and that’s not acceptable when you have the potential to kill not only the driver but others outside the car.
I thought the “needs lidar” debate was settled years ago? Lidar cannot read signs. It is also prohibitively expensive to put in vehicles. If you’re going to drive with a neural network you need as much training data as possible, which means as many sensors in as many vehicles as possible.
If your cameras detect something the lidar does not, you trust the cameras, every time. Lidar can very easily misinterperet the world. It works great for simple robots who need to know where walls are and don’t need to specifially identify animals, people, obstacles, speed bumps, construction zones, etc.
Theres also the simple fact that humans can drive just fine without having evolved a lidar sensor.
removed by mod
TSLA doesn’t even pay dividends. Appreciate you pointing yourself out as horribly misinformed.
Then why are you so stridently kissing Musk’s ass?
Look at you just parroting Musk’s lies. Do you parrot his transphobic bullshit too?
If your cameras detect something the lidar does not, you trust the cameras
Yes, but if the lidar sees something the cameras doesn’t, you trust the lidar.
Actually, no you don’t. Lidar cannot dentify object’s specifically. Tesla does use lidar in their testing/prototype vehicles and they have to find any instances manually where these systems don’t agree. It always falls back to cameras.
removed by mod
No he ABSOLUTELY didn’t do that, because it’s very unsafe and he unleashed not only AP but also that total steaming pile that is “FSD”. Which is neither F nor SD.
Well autopilot, you know what they say. If at first you don’t succeed…
Die, die again.
go autopilot go!
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Way back in 2015, Tesla CEO Elon Musk would frequently give his engineers an earful after his car company’s infamous Autopilot driver assistance tech nearly got him killed during test drives on multiple occasions — though there’s a chance its dangerous behavior may have been due to Musk’s stubbornness on how the technology should be built.
Per its chapter on the launch of the driver assistance tech, Musk would learn firsthand that a curve on Interstate 405 caused Autopilot, thrown off by the road’s faded lane lines, to steer into and “almost hit” oncoming traffic.
But if Musk wanted safer software, he perhaps should’ve listened to his engineers, who have frequently petitioned over the years to incorporate what’s known as light detection and ranging technology, or LiDAR.
LiDAR is essentially radar that uses light instead of sound, and Tesla’s competitors, including Google’s Waymo, have long leveraged it to help their autonomous cars “see.”
Musk, however, has insisted that Tesla’s cars only use optical sensors, likening it to how humans primarily use their eyes to drive, according to the biography, and as such, he’s been tepid on using plain old radar, too.
"We told Elon that it was best safety-wise to use it … but it was clear that he thought we should eventually be able to rely on camera vision only, "one young engineer who joined in 2014 recalled, as quoted in the biography.
The original article contains 466 words, the summary contains 233 words. Saved 50%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Good bot
Good hooman
Literally every single day we have idiots doing Musk’s PR work for free.
Downvote Musk spam. The billionaire doesn’t need your help ensuring his businesses stay in the 24 hour news cycle.
It’s not even especially an informative or interesting article. It just picks out one tiny little story from the book and puts a bunch of unnecessary padding around it.
Do you just go into every single article and spam this comment?
He’s right though. We can’t go a day without some inane bullshit about musk getting posted. This event happened 8 years ago, it’s not even news. It should have “2015” in the title. This is a bad post, and I’m disappointed we always have to have these kinds of posts around.
Lemmy needs muting filters so we can just mute anything mentioning Elon Musk
There is probably a third party app with that functionality
Ya, I think most do. I never use my phone for web browsing though, personally.
Counter point: If I didn’t hear how badly he runs his businesses, or how bad his company’s products are. I would have easily bought one or more of his products.
I have backed out of Tesla pre-orders because of the bad publicity, many reports of bad build quality, and terrible business decisions.
If this was a puff piece, I honestly wouldn’t have bothered posting it.
Most people on the entire planet are aware of how shitty he is at this point. Everyone that would not purchase a product related to him is already not buying said product. There’s no more people to convince. Don’t act like a white knight while degrading the content in this community.
I swear this specific community is turning more people off to lemmy than any other. These type of posts are why.
Most people on the entire planet are aware of how shitty he is at this point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect
And
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/h45mt3xoby/econTabReport.pdf
Section 49, where 64% of people either liked him or didn’t know enough about him to have an opinion.
My we are pompous today
Last time I mentioned Musk in a casual conversation, this one guy kept going on and on about how he thinks he’s a genius and how Twitter will be so much better now and how he’ll bring us all into space and how people only don’t like him because he’s conservative. He would have kept talking forever if we didn’t change the subject.
My point is that lots of people don’t know how shitty he is. Some people live in an echo chamber where they don’t ever hear about that stuff because certain people want to sell a narrative where the rich man is competent and the poor people are just jealous. Others just aren’t very attentive.
Not everyone is you. It’s good that you know he’s shit, but you shouldn’t assume that everyone knows everything you do. It’s important that we dispel the myth that the rich and powerful got that way by being smarter than us. If it takes a hundred articles to do that, then it will all be worth it.
I’m convinced he pays an entire meme troll team to create propaganda that boost his internet persona.
I’ve seen videos on Tiktok with no other purpose than to say how genius Elmo is, and how he worked his way from nothing, that he is essentially superior to everyone else.
Who in their right mind would create such a video if they weren’t being paid for it?
Normally I would agree with you. But some of these comments here are dark humor gold, so I’m conflicted.
Sorry…
Another prime example of how shitposting has ruined the internet. Who gives a shit if someone has a funny comment if the content is literally degrading the quality of this channel, lemmy, and the greater internet.
If seeing the words “Elon Musk” really degrades your internet experience that much, maybe the internet isn’t for you. Unfortunately, he’s a billionaire, and he will be in the media until he dies.
He’s in social media so much because of the people that are obsessed with him like OP, not the people that are tired of mindless peons inadvertently propping him up.
There’s a whole list of billionaires that aren’t posted about every hour. There’s absolutely no reason to obsess over this guy.
That’s exactly my point: he’s one of the richest and most prominent people on the planet (something that I too dislike). People posting about him are not going anywhere because of his status.
HUMOR ISN’T FUNNY!
Unfortunately, because of him being a billionaire his PR is self sustaining and posts about him aren’t going anywhere.
I checked the Business Insider news feed last week. Within 9 hours they posted 8 (!) Musk “news” stories. It’s ridiculous.
LiDAR is essentially radar that uses light instead of sound
Radar doesn’t use sound. It sounds like the author doesn’t know the difference between sonar and radar.
It also looks like the author doesn’t know the difference between sonar and radar.
Yeah, it uses radio frequencies. RaDAR stands for “Radio Detection And Ranging”. It uses radio waves (usually in the microwave bandwidth) to detect things. Basically, since those radio waves are affected by the Doppler effect, you can have a computer do some math to determine the speed of whatever those waves reflected off of. Because the Doppler effect changes a wave based on how fast an object is moving relative to an observer. So if you’re a stationary observer, you can figure out how fast an object is moving relative to yourself, purely based on how much that moving object changes the waves you’re reflecting off of it.
Every wave is affected by Doppler effect.
When a car rushes your way, it’s a tiny bit bluer, a little bit hotter, it’s drivers’ phone is operating on a slightly higher frequency and it sounds higher. According to you.
That’s like all relative dude
Well… also according to most physicists.
Why are you misquoting the article that is not what it says
The real quote
LiDAR is essentially radar that uses light instead of radio waves…
Why are you misquoting the article that is not what it says
Why are you accusing me of something I didn’t do?
From the bottom of the article:
Updated to correct an error in describing how radar works.
I quoted it correctly at the time. They just edited it after I commented.
This is why comments are so useful. I was already on the fence about viewing a site named
futurismand your comment made sure I will avoid it moving forward.Why does the word futurism put you the fence?
Futurists are people who cosplay as scientists predicting stuff they have no clue about.
11 months into the future, you will get a useless unfunny reply!
A lot of articles that either use that buzzword or are published by sites that have that in their name are utter garbage. i.e rediculous predictions, inaccurate headlines/content etc.
I think that’s a big qualm of mine in terms of the sources allowed here, and I suppose it will take time to weed out the trustworthy from the not.
