Ladybird
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      • @[email protected]English
        8•8 months ago

        It wasn’t right for people to bandwagon and harass the project, but that doesn’t mean he was right for closing this PR in the way he did. Him closing this PR is what caused the project to be attacked, not part of the attacks.

          • Todd Bonzalez
            1•8 months ago

            Can you direct me to where he has apologized or reversed course at all in the years since?

            Or do you think that we’re just supposed to forgive over time without evidence that any improvement has occurred?

            • @[email protected]English
              2•8 months ago

              Technically, in a later PR they merged a more gender neutral language, but I don’t think there was any official apology to the community.

              I don’t comment anything negative, so far as I remember, against Ladybird and decided not to look at the general direction of that project.

      • Todd Bonzalez
        14•8 months ago

        So you agree with the idea that submitting a “minor nitpick” PR suggesting that the software doesn’t refer to all users as male is “personal politics” and deserves an angry response for even suggesting it?

        You sure do sound like someone who would agree with Lunduke…

        Being a woman or being transgender isn’t “political”. Vocally opposing inclusiveness is asshole behavior.

        Not even mad that he’s not accepting a low-effort PR. It’s trivializing people’s existence as “political” that makes him shitty.

      • sweatersocialist [comrade/them]English
        18•8 months ago

        i don’t even want to click your link because it says “unhinged dishonest activists”. i have literally only ever heard the worst people with the worst opinions ever say shit like that.

        • @[email protected]English
          1•8 months ago

          That’s why I didn’t say “transphobia” anywhere in my comment. Real weird vibes is what I’m personally sticking with until I see more. The ‘transphobic’ and ‘misogynist’ claims are a leap without further evidence, but there’s a very strong clue about the type of person someone is when they say pronouns are “political”.

      • @[email protected]
        6•8 months ago

        Like i said earlier, it was changed to they later, to the lead dev, in german they/them is a neopronoun, and “he” is gender neutral is those situations, i assume he thought it was the same in english

        • @[email protected]English
          2•8 months ago

          I don’t understand how a German grammar situation would elicit the response from the PR. Are gender neutral pronouns “political” in Germany? Why did the dev say “personal politics” specifically?

          • @[email protected]
            3•8 months ago

            Are gender neutral pronouns “political” in Germany?

            Yeah, (like in french) male pronouns ARE the gender neutral option, and using they/them would be like using xim/xer in english

            • @[email protected]English
              2•8 months ago

              So doesn’t that still mean that they think gender-neutral pronouns are political, i.e. they don’t accept them? I’ve also noticed the dev in question is Swedish, so I’m not sure where German language quirks came from?

              • @[email protected]
                2•8 months ago

                Well, yeah, but in gendered languages every common noun has a gender, and gender neutral pronouns are very very new, especially 3 years ago, so even most people in those lgbtq communities use male pronouns as gender neutral.

                Tldr: yeah, but its like the tiniest deal ever

                Edit: wanted to add that in gendered languages using gender neutral instead of male pronouns when referring to the user in the app would be wierd

      • @[email protected]
        14•8 months ago

        It’s a one-time error the maintainer made 3 years ago (at a time when much of the US-influenced west was going crazy with polarization over the use of pronouns), not a consistent behavior of intolerance as one would expect given the level of hostility towards the project seen here. I personally find it weirder to hold such a long-standing grudge for a one-off error, and over a project one is not even personally involved with.

        • Todd Bonzalez
          5•8 months ago

          at a time when much of the US-influenced west was going crazy with polarization over the use of pronouns

          lmao, speak for yourself. The anti-pronoun crazies have always been fringe, and their message has always been hateful and sexist.

          When someone tells me who they are, I believe them. I’m seeing no evidence that anything has changed in 3 years.

          • @[email protected]
            1•8 months ago

            IDK what you mean with “speak for yourself” (don’t we always speak for ourselves? :S)

            Just to clarify, i think it’s better to use gender-neutral pronouns when gender is irrelevant, or unknown. And it’s easy! I’ve been doing so writing on English online forums since more 2 decades ago.

            But i don’t think it’s reasonable to get mad at someone, or even attack them, for using male pronouns instead of gender-neutral ones. It doesn’t say anything about the person being sexist or hateful. The veeery vast majority of people who do this do it out of ignorance rather than malice. And attacking someone for something they don’t even consider as a moral choice —like referring to a generic programmer a “he” instead of “they”— does nothing positive for this world, on the contrary.

        • Todd Bonzalez
          3•8 months ago

          Having a reflex to avoid politics, especially when you live in an environment where concepts like gender aren’t discussed, is understandable

          Being female is not “political”.

          Their policy of “no politics” was misguided, but understandable.

          Being female is not “political”.

          Everything is political.

          Being female is not “political”.