• Julian
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    57 months ago

    Don’t get me started on ds9. A black captain? A trans lesbian officer? A gay interspecies couple? The federation using fear from war as an excuse to become a police state? Can’t believe they made my colorful space communism show woke.

    • Flying Squid
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      47 months ago

      I can’t be the only one who remembers Trekkies legitimately bitching about Tuvok because “Vulcans aren’t black.”

      Like… really? You’ve been there and checked this out for yourself? Or is it that most (and not even all) of the handful of Vulcans you saw so far were white?

      • @[email protected]
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        7 months ago

        Tuvok is the best depiction of a Vulcan in all of Star Trek too and I will die on this hill (Spock is half human, so I am not counting him). Tuvok seemed to me like he found humans (and Neelix) to be illogical, difficult to understand, and somewhat annoying; but nonetheless he couldn’t help but like them as well, though he wouldn’t admit that to them (tangential hot take: Vulcans claim to suppress their emotions, but they still make decisions based on emotion and rationalise them as being based on logic after the fact)

        • @[email protected]
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          27 months ago

          Overall I like Tuvok as a character. My problem with Tuvok is they write him as if Vulcans have no emotion. He even says that.

          Vulcans are supposed to have such strong emotions they need to constantly keep them under control and use logic to make decisions because the emotions cause them to make bad decisions.

          I think that’s a lot more interesting for a character. Nemoy said he played Spock as a guy who was constantly in wonder at things and keeping it under control.

          • Cethin
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            17 months ago

            One thing I think that determines if something is good or bad sci-fi is if the components of the show can be used to look at us humans to improve ourselves. An alien race that doesn’t have emotions doesn’t give us a vessel to use to discuss issues humans have and how we can improve. A race with very strong emotions who have recognized making decisions with emotions as a basis, rather than logic, is dangerous is useful as a tool to teach lessons.

            This is what makes Star Trek good sci-fi and Star Wars bad sci-fi. There are very few lessons to learn from Wars, if any. Almost all of Trek is in service to this (at least in the good shows). It’s also why the books of Dune are good, but the 1984 version sucks. The miniseries I think are underrated and more people should give it a try. (It’s very campy. Just a warning. If you can watch old Trek you’ll be fine though.) I’m yet to make up my mind of the new Dune. It’s entertaining, and seems to maintain most of the message from the books, but we’re yet to see.

    • @[email protected]
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      7 months ago

      I’ve seen DS9 multiple times, but I have no clue what you’re talking about on some of these. Please enlighten me.

      A trans lesbian officer

      Are you talking about Jadzia/Ezri-Dax? If so, neither are trans. The parasite, Dax, in them has no gender but can go to different hosts that have genders.

      A gay interspecies couple

      Are you talking about Odo and Kira? While Odo doesn’t have gender, I wouldn’t call it a gay interspecies couple. That’s kind of a stretch.

      Edited for format

      • @[email protected]OP
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        7 months ago

        A trans lesbian officer

        That is a popular fan interpretation of Jadzia. I can see some similarities, but I don’t think the Trill are even as much as an allegory for transsexuality. That interpretation is very reductive and dismissive of the transsexual experience.

        A gay interspecies couple

        Garak and Bashir were originally portrayed with gay subtext. Producers put a stop to that before anything actually developed between the two characters.