It pisses me off to no end when people conflate legitimate criticism of Democrats with tankie rhetoric. The Dems are complacent, listless, corrupt, and lazy. They refuse to stand up to the Republicans until it’s too late or doesn’t matter.
The people want progressive politics: universal healthcare, living wage, affordable housing, education, and food. We want a sustainable future and an end to corporate greed.
The donor class, superpacs, and other sources of dark money in politics are what keep nearly everyone corrupt. Its addictive.
It pisses me off to no end when people conflate legitimate criticism of Democrats with tankie rhetoric.
Last election season went something like this:
Progressives: “Please stop sending weapons to a genocidal maniac who is using them to murder children in order to grab land. And stop actively protecting said genocidal maniac from consequences in the international community.”
Maybe if progressives in partisan primary states registered as Democrats and voted in the primaries, they wouldn’t be complaining about all the centrists in office.🤔
Are you implying there was a Democratic presedential primary that didn’t break it’s own rules to make sure Biden was the only candidate on the ballot (edit) in many states (/edit)?
If so, you’re living in a fantasy.
This is the one-two step for Democratic party apologists.
Blame leftists for their lack of representation in the party.
Rig the processes to make sure that the left wing of the party has no internal representation.
Goto step one.
The best part of this dance from their view? Internal party politics and processes are boring, and the media won’t cover it when they cheat.
No. The presidential incumbent primary is a joke. I’m referring to the congressional primary that saw less than 20% attendance. Congress is the primary approval for military aid for Israel. POTUS can use drawdown power, but that can be challenged by Congress.
We have three branches of government, two of which are elected, yet people pretend we have one vote every four years.
The presidential incumbent primary is a joke. I’m referring to the congressional primary that saw less than 20% attendance. Congress is the primary approval for military aid for Israel. POTUS can use drawdown power, but that can be challenged by Congress.
We have three branches of government, two of which are elected, yet people pretend we have one vote every four years.
What about my comment gave you that impression? I’m saying that if progressives voted in Democratic primaries with the same conviction they use to criticize the DNC, we wouldn’t have as many centrists in Congress.
Democratic congressional primaries are decided by ~20% of registered Democrats. You can look at PAC funding and vote for the Democrat that isn’t funded by AIPAC, who will have a better chance of winning the election than a third-party protest vote.
My point is that Democrats, whether progressive or centrist, shouldn’t be supporting this. It shouldn’t matter (on this particular topic) if progressives aren’t voting; I’m not willing to give centrist Democrats a pass and will condemn them just the same.
I keep hearing that progressives aren’t voting in the numbers that they should be, but there might be another problem: there simply aren’t that many progressives to get offices. As a “Reddit refugee”, I realized that we are overrepresented in a lot of these online echo chambers.
I’ve been left of the Democrats and stumping progressives/greens/independents since the 90s. Most people don’t even know if they live in one of the 30 partisan primary states. Copious amounts of New Yorkers were turned away at the polls in 2016 because they didn’t know they had to be registered as a Democrat to vote for Bernie in the primary. I’m sure that happened in other partisan primary states as well.
Yet in my experience, asking a progressive to register as a Democrat is the fastest way to get them to stop listening, even though it’s statistically far more effective than voting third-party. People need to stop voting with their feelings and start playing the game that we’ve been losing for decades.
Accountability is one think these people will not take. Has me questioning where they get off calling themselves progressive. They can’t even handle the mere suggestion which is evident by the number of downvotes that occurs when it’s mentioned.
For sure. It’s also easier to shout into an echo chamber and get an upvote than it is to convince someone in the street to take action. I hold no respect for apathy.
Completely wrong, Tankies weren’t just promoting primarying Biden, a pretty obvious lost cause from the start given his incumbent status, they were promoting voting against Biden in the generals. That is NOT advocacy against genocide in Gaza. Trump is a single-state supporter.
Except that there are 2 groups: progressives and a more extreme left group. Progressives who were arguing in good faith against genocide were lumped in with the latter group.
The establishment Democrats were engaging in censorship and suppression of anything that was critical of Israel. Now Trump has stepped up this censorship/suppression, but it was definitely happening under Biden.
I’m a consequencialist, so while I acknowledge there is a minority of extremists who think burning down the state itself is progressive, I personally don’t view them as such. If anything I think those extremists were being prodded along and supported by the conservatives who benefit from splitting the left and also agitated by Tankie psyops who benefit from the USA’s fall from grace.
Just elect 60 democrats to the senate so we can get universal healthcare, reduce homelessness, tax the rich, reform the courts, expand ballot access, draw fair election maps, remove money from elections, protect human rights, and protect the environment. Everything I just listed are core DNC stances. If we can’t do that then we’re just going to suffer on this wild ride until societal collapse and replacement with something worse.
Incorrect, Biden sold Tank Munitions to Israel, but the nuance here is that Tankies has always described militarily aggressive, dictatorship loving, self-proclaiming Communists.
A) yes, it is impossible to reform an embedded regime of wealth. You need revolution, which will likely require tanks even in the age of drones.
Plenty of countries managed to enact universal health care coverage, facing down the same embedded regime of wealthy special interests, without full revolution. You’re just flat out wrong.
B) tankie is anything to the left of burning children alive for warmth, at least how it’s used on this site.
A) those countries had far less embedded capitalists. They did not reform, they advanced in a linear direction.
B) you’re a north American, half of you are fascists and the other half are conservative Catholics. Don’t you people specifically still kill native women so regularly there’s multiple euphemisms about it?
Any Canadian that doesn’t know about ‘starlight tours’ at this point is either sheltered or willfully ignorant to the plight of native women in Canada.
Canada has this nice image and all, but they’re still committing genocide.
A) those countries had far less embedded capitalists. They did not reform, they advanced in a linear direction.
This is based on literally nothing. The way that health care was funded and delivered was reformed completely, many times in many countries, and was opposed on exactly the same lines, and that opposition was overcome. Your insistence that the whole system must be torn down or whatever is without rational or historical backing, and will guarantee failure.
B) you’re a north American, half of you are fascists and the other half are conservative Catholics. Don’t you people specifically still kill native women so regularly there’s multiple euphemisms about it?
Nobody knows what you’re talking about, including you.
A) no it wasn’t. The vast majority of healthcare reforms in the EU took place shortly after WWII and explicitly due to the fact fascism was fresh in everyone’s mind so they could just remind everyone of nazi healthcare practices.
B) Assuming you’re on ca due to your location, look up literally anything about native Americans in your country since you failed to learn about it in school (or went to school before courses on actual Canadians were added). Starlight tours still happen to this day and native women still disproportionately ‘go missing.’
A) no it wasn’t. The vast majority of healthcare reforms in the EU took place shortly after WWII and explicitly due to the fact fascism was fresh in everyone’s mind so they could just remind everyone of nazi healthcare practices.
Literally has nothing to do with anything. Sane people realize that a fundamental shift in how health care is managed and delivered constitutes a reform. You only need to invoke the Nazis and all this other bullshit because if you stick to the facts you’ve got nothing.
B) Assuming you’re on ca due to your location, look up literally anything about native Americans in your country since you failed to learn about it in school (or went to school before courses on actual Canadians were added). Starlight tours still happen to this day and native women still disproportionately ‘go missing.’
Literally has nothing to do with anything.
Par for the course for the “burn down everything” people.
Yeah you’ll never know for sure. Actual tankies are what like a small subset of the small percent of progressives. Fractions of a fraction. Statistically they are non-existent. There is an outsized presense online. So one could reason that most of them you encounter are acting in bad faith. It’s been a very effective weapon on information warfare.
My philosophy is to abide by the oldest rule of the internet. Don’t feed the trolls.
So when they agree to vote for Trump’s demands, they’re fundamentally better? Gutting Section 230 is the better choice because Trump said it, but they voted for it? Appointing Trump’s batshit cabinet picks? Bombs are inherently less deadly if a D signed off on it instead of a R?
Is my governor, Newsom of California, inherently better for being a democrat as he invites Republicans like actual open nazi and helper of Trump’s rise to power, Steven Bannon? Is he inherently better when he agrees with Charlie Kirk that trans people don’t have a place in society? Giving them not just a soap box, but a microphone and a speaker to the masses, and agreeing with them?
This is better? Agreeing to their demands and pretending you’re not helping their fascism?
You did not answer my question, please try again with a bit more brain power.
Is my governor better for inviting Republican dipshits and agreeing with them, because he’s a Democrat? Are bombs used for murder better with a Blue pen instead of a Red pen?
And Bernie and AOC are cool, they won’t be any positions of power because of Schumer and Pelosi.
I literally have never once praised Trump. I am saying “If Democrats are voting yes with his fasicst demands, they are doing a bad job at stopping Trump.”
bernie and aoc are not in a position of power now because you encouraged people not to vote for them
Point to me ever once saying “Do not vote for Bernie or AOC” in my entire account history. Any and all of it. Please, if it’s so clear as day, use my words against me. Screenshot it so I can’t edit or delete it too. Document me lying to you and the public.
Let me make it clear: Trump is evil. If someone agrees with him, they are complicit in his evil. That includes, voting for his demands. That includes giving him what he wants drawn up by Republican house/senators, and voting with it.
I like Al Green. I like AOC. I like Bernie. I like Booker. They have stood up for my kind more than most politicians. If the entire Democratic party was filled with them, I’d have a lot less to complain about. Instead we have Schumer saying he won’t vote yes on Trump’s demands, and then last minute gives Trump what he wants. Instead we have Pelosi in a hospital voting to prevent AOC from gaining rank in the House.
Once again, is my governor, promoting actual, unironic Nazis who enabled Trump’s rise of power good for America because he’s a Democrat? Richard Bannon literally sig heiled to Trump 2 weeks before the podcast episode featureing and agreeing with him. Is this good?
And please try to use grammar and spelling like we do when we speak English.
you seem a little confused; quite typical of myopic socialists that can’t see beyond the current protest
the OP was about how people like yourself raged against the democrats by taking fundamentalist positions that made you predictably blind to the bigger picture of preventing the actual fascists getting to power and shooting the causes you thought you were supporting in the foot, and causing other immeasurable damage
and you’re still doing it!
attempt to wrap your head around that, i know looking more than 1 move ahead really isn’t your forte
Hell lemme help you, here’s a post from 3 days ago, unedited, saying I want more Democrats to be like Bernie and AOC, and stop voting for Trump’s bills.
EDIT: I’m gonna catch some Z’s because I’m not gonna stay up waiting for you to gather a lack of evidence to support claims you made up in your own head. Might as well try to accuse me of being DB Cooper or something else.
It pisses me off to no end when people conflate legitimate criticism of Democrats with tankie rhetoric. The Dems are complacent, listless, corrupt, and lazy. They refuse to stand up to the Republicans until it’s too late or doesn’t matter.
The people want progressive politics: universal healthcare, living wage, affordable housing, education, and food. We want a sustainable future and an end to corporate greed.
The donor class, superpacs, and other sources of dark money in politics are what keep nearly everyone corrupt. Its addictive.
Last election season went something like this:
Progressives: “Please stop sending weapons to a genocidal maniac who is using them to murder children in order to grab land. And stop actively protecting said genocidal maniac from consequences in the international community.”
Establisment: “STFU tankie!”
Maybe if progressives in partisan primary states registered as Democrats and voted in the primaries, they wouldn’t be complaining about all the centrists in office.🤔
Are you implying there was a Democratic presedential primary that didn’t break it’s own rules to make sure Biden was the only candidate on the ballot (edit) in many states (/edit)?
If so, you’re living in a fantasy.
This is the one-two step for Democratic party apologists.
Blame leftists for their lack of representation in the party.
Rig the processes to make sure that the left wing of the party has no internal representation.
Goto step one.
The best part of this dance from their view? Internal party politics and processes are boring, and the media won’t cover it when they cheat.
No. The presidential incumbent primary is a joke. I’m referring to the congressional primary that saw less than 20% attendance. Congress is the primary approval for military aid for Israel. POTUS can use drawdown power, but that can be challenged by Congress.
We have three branches of government, two of which are elected, yet people pretend we have one vote every four years.
lmfao I love when liberals are fully committed
What if i told you, you could get more done towards your moral project if you werent an absolutionist? Would you continue?
That sounds like tankie rhetoric
Firstly, I’m a progressive. Secondly, what is incorrect about that statement?
What primary? The DNC shut down real primaries last election. To the point where undecided was the protest vote.
A race between Biden, Williamson, and Phillips isn’t a real primary.
A real primary would have been something like Biden, Newsom, Whitmer, and maybe Shapiro.
There is no point voting in a rigged primary.
The presidential incumbent primary is a joke. I’m referring to the congressional primary that saw less than 20% attendance. Congress is the primary approval for military aid for Israel. POTUS can use drawdown power, but that can be challenged by Congress.
We have three branches of government, two of which are elected, yet people pretend we have one vote every four years.
So you’re ok with centrists supporting and actively protecting perpetrators of genocide?
What about my comment gave you that impression? I’m saying that if progressives voted in Democratic primaries with the same conviction they use to criticize the DNC, we wouldn’t have as many centrists in Congress.
Democratic congressional primaries are decided by ~20% of registered Democrats. You can look at PAC funding and vote for the Democrat that isn’t funded by AIPAC, who will have a better chance of winning the election than a third-party protest vote.
My point is that Democrats, whether progressive or centrist, shouldn’t be supporting this. It shouldn’t matter (on this particular topic) if progressives aren’t voting; I’m not willing to give centrist Democrats a pass and will condemn them just the same.
I keep hearing that progressives aren’t voting in the numbers that they should be, but there might be another problem: there simply aren’t that many progressives to get offices. As a “Reddit refugee”, I realized that we are overrepresented in a lot of these online echo chambers.
I’ve been left of the Democrats and stumping progressives/greens/independents since the 90s. Most people don’t even know if they live in one of the 30 partisan primary states. Copious amounts of New Yorkers were turned away at the polls in 2016 because they didn’t know they had to be registered as a Democrat to vote for Bernie in the primary. I’m sure that happened in other partisan primary states as well.
Yet in my experience, asking a progressive to register as a Democrat is the fastest way to get them to stop listening, even though it’s statistically far more effective than voting third-party. People need to stop voting with their feelings and start playing the game that we’ve been losing for decades.
Accountability is one think these people will not take. Has me questioning where they get off calling themselves progressive. They can’t even handle the mere suggestion which is evident by the number of downvotes that occurs when it’s mentioned.
For sure. It’s also easier to shout into an echo chamber and get an upvote than it is to convince someone in the street to take action. I hold no respect for apathy.
That exactly what you’re doing
Here, yes. This is far from all that I do.
Completely wrong, Tankies weren’t just promoting primarying Biden, a pretty obvious lost cause from the start given his incumbent status, they were promoting voting against Biden in the generals. That is NOT advocacy against genocide in Gaza. Trump is a single-state supporter.
Except that there are 2 groups: progressives and a more extreme left group. Progressives who were arguing in good faith against genocide were lumped in with the latter group.
The establishment Democrats were engaging in censorship and suppression of anything that was critical of Israel. Now Trump has stepped up this censorship/suppression, but it was definitely happening under Biden.
I’m a consequencialist, so while I acknowledge there is a minority of extremists who think burning down the state itself is progressive, I personally don’t view them as such. If anything I think those extremists were being prodded along and supported by the conservatives who benefit from splitting the left and also agitated by Tankie psyops who benefit from the USA’s fall from grace.
Just elect 60 democrats to the senate so we can get universal healthcare, reduce homelessness, tax the rich, reform the courts, expand ballot access, draw fair election maps, remove money from elections, protect human rights, and protect the environment. Everything I just listed are core DNC stances. If we can’t do that then we’re just going to suffer on this wild ride until societal collapse and replacement with something worse.
Biden was sending litteral tanks to israel
Incorrect, Biden sold Tank Munitions to Israel, but the nuance here is that Tankies has always described militarily aggressive, dictatorship loving, self-proclaiming Communists.
How will you get any of that without tanks?
Are you trying to say we can’t have universal healthcare without leftist authoritarianism or do you not know what a “tankie” is?
A) yes, it is impossible to reform an embedded regime of wealth. You need revolution, which will likely require tanks even in the age of drones.
B) tankie is anything to the left of burning children alive for warmth, at least how it’s used on this site.
Plenty of countries managed to enact universal health care coverage, facing down the same embedded regime of wealthy special interests, without full revolution. You’re just flat out wrong.
Lol k
A) those countries had far less embedded capitalists. They did not reform, they advanced in a linear direction.
B) you’re a north American, half of you are fascists and the other half are conservative Catholics. Don’t you people specifically still kill native women so regularly there’s multiple euphemisms about it?
I can’t say this is familiar to me, at all.
Any Canadian that doesn’t know about ‘starlight tours’ at this point is either sheltered or willfully ignorant to the plight of native women in Canada.
Canada has this nice image and all, but they’re still committing genocide.
Not Canadian but since I had a chance to look it up, that’s absolutely horrifying what’s happened there.
This is based on literally nothing. The way that health care was funded and delivered was reformed completely, many times in many countries, and was opposed on exactly the same lines, and that opposition was overcome. Your insistence that the whole system must be torn down or whatever is without rational or historical backing, and will guarantee failure.
Nobody knows what you’re talking about, including you.
A) no it wasn’t. The vast majority of healthcare reforms in the EU took place shortly after WWII and explicitly due to the fact fascism was fresh in everyone’s mind so they could just remind everyone of nazi healthcare practices.
B) Assuming you’re on ca due to your location, look up literally anything about native Americans in your country since you failed to learn about it in school (or went to school before courses on actual Canadians were added). Starlight tours still happen to this day and native women still disproportionately ‘go missing.’
Literally has nothing to do with anything. Sane people realize that a fundamental shift in how health care is managed and delivered constitutes a reform. You only need to invoke the Nazis and all this other bullshit because if you stick to the facts you’ve got nothing.
Literally has nothing to do with anything.
Par for the course for the “burn down everything” people.
And those countries have tanks
Though some temporary concessions might be had through labor militancy.
Have you said tanks once?
That’s cause “tankie” is right wing propaganda for exactly that reason. It blunts progressive discourse dead in its tracks.
What’s worse is that sometimes I can’t tell if it’s Right Wing trolls or truly insane hard leftists.
I consider myself hard left progressive, but I have caveats like anyone. Tankies are so cartoonish, I don’t know how to react.
Yeah you’ll never know for sure. Actual tankies are what like a small subset of the small percent of progressives. Fractions of a fraction. Statistically they are non-existent. There is an outsized presense online. So one could reason that most of them you encounter are acting in bad faith. It’s been a very effective weapon on information warfare.
My philosophy is to abide by the oldest rule of the internet. Don’t feed the trolls.
and yet they are head and shoulders above the trump cult
anyone that can’t see that or chooses to campaign and vote against the democrats is so corrupted by socialist fundamentalism that they enabled fascism
So when they agree to vote for Trump’s demands, they’re fundamentally better? Gutting Section 230 is the better choice because Trump said it, but they voted for it? Appointing Trump’s batshit cabinet picks? Bombs are inherently less deadly if a D signed off on it instead of a R?
Is my governor, Newsom of California, inherently better for being a democrat as he invites Republicans like actual open nazi and helper of Trump’s rise to power, Steven Bannon? Is he inherently better when he agrees with Charlie Kirk that trans people don’t have a place in society? Giving them not just a soap box, but a microphone and a speaker to the masses, and agreeing with them?
This is better? Agreeing to their demands and pretending you’re not helping their fascism?
you couldn’t see the difference before the election and you still can’t see the difference now?
for real?
come ooooon
at least talk about bernie and aoc or something vaguely convincing
You did not answer my question, please try again with a bit more brain power.
Is my governor better for inviting Republican dipshits and agreeing with them, because he’s a Democrat? Are bombs used for murder better with a Blue pen instead of a Red pen?
And Bernie and AOC are cool, they won’t be any positions of power because of Schumer and Pelosi.
you’re still campaigning so hard for trump, this is what i mean about how corrupt the socialists are
to answer your questions: bombs are all the same. you don’t have to agree with all dems to see they are better than the cult
but you can’t see that?
bernie and aoc are not in a position of power now because you encouraged people not to vote for them
the logic is pretty simple
I literally have never once praised Trump. I am saying “If Democrats are voting yes with his fasicst demands, they are doing a bad job at stopping Trump.”
Point to me ever once saying “Do not vote for Bernie or AOC” in my entire account history. Any and all of it. Please, if it’s so clear as day, use my words against me. Screenshot it so I can’t edit or delete it too. Document me lying to you and the public.
Let me make it clear: Trump is evil. If someone agrees with him, they are complicit in his evil. That includes, voting for his demands. That includes giving him what he wants drawn up by Republican house/senators, and voting with it.
I like Al Green. I like AOC. I like Bernie. I like Booker. They have stood up for my kind more than most politicians. If the entire Democratic party was filled with them, I’d have a lot less to complain about. Instead we have Schumer saying he won’t vote yes on Trump’s demands, and then last minute gives Trump what he wants. Instead we have Pelosi in a hospital voting to prevent AOC from gaining rank in the House.
Once again, is my governor, promoting actual, unironic Nazis who enabled Trump’s rise of power good for America because he’s a Democrat? Richard Bannon literally sig heiled to Trump 2 weeks before the podcast episode featureing and agreeing with him. Is this good?
And please try to use grammar and spelling like we do when we speak English.
you seem a little confused; quite typical of myopic socialists that can’t see beyond the current protest
the OP was about how people like yourself raged against the democrats by taking fundamentalist positions that made you predictably blind to the bigger picture of preventing the actual fascists getting to power and shooting the causes you thought you were supporting in the foot, and causing other immeasurable damage
and you’re still doing it!
attempt to wrap your head around that, i know looking more than 1 move ahead really isn’t your forte
Booker voted to fund Israel, unfortunately. He’s not the worst, and is in the limelight right now, but he’s got a mixed and spotty voting record.
Some stuff I can forgive, but not supporting genocide.
I say this fully aware that I voted for Harris because I know she’d have been better than Trump.
Not the worst, but still a genocider. And that’s inexcusable.
Hell lemme help you, here’s a post from 3 days ago, unedited, saying I want more Democrats to be like Bernie and AOC, and stop voting for Trump’s bills.
EDIT: I’m gonna catch some Z’s because I’m not gonna stay up waiting for you to gather a lack of evidence to support claims you made up in your own head. Might as well try to accuse me of being DB Cooper or something else.
lol, hope you had a good sleep, x
Meanwhile the dems sent billions of dollar worth of actual tanks to genocide people in Gaza lmao