OP seems to not understand that the pastoral metaphor is common to all christianity because they are focused on “pastor” as a title. The job title of “pastor” is used by specific protestant denominations but the overarching metaphor of the faithful being a flock of sheep that God/Jesus/the faith tends to is common.
No - it’s more that this isn’t the way that Catholics talk, because Vance doesn’t give a shit about Catholicism and is only one because he thinks it gives him street cred.
Are you joking or have you literally never stepped foot in any Roman Catholic space? The pastoral metaphor is common to pretty much every major branch of the faith.
Vance is attached to the “Rationalists” (note the capital “R” because it is a philosophy that isn’t rational) and absolutely was an edge lord regardless the phrase he used is entirely acceptable.
I have heard the metaphor. It’s not a term someone would use to describe the pope. It would make sense if he was referring to his local parish’s pastor. It does not make any sense for a Catholic to describe the pope this way.
He does not talk like any Catholic I have known. I have family who are Irish Catholics who attend regularly. I have a dear friend who was really wrestling with his faith and sexuality, who chose St Francis as his patron and was a lot more eloquent than this shit. I have had discussions with actual trad caths. The person who gave me a tour of the Vatican worked for the Vatican.
The way Vance is talking is off putting and weird, and along with basically everything else about him, indicates that he doesn’t give a shit about the religion or its beliefs. He’s like a 4chan asshole who converts because they like posting Deus Vult and “Remove Kebab” memes. Aesthetic, not substance.
It’s not a term someone would use to describe the pope
Yes, it is. He is the pastor to the entire Roman Catholic faith. It’s kind of awkward but not out of line like if he had called him a bishop or Imam.
I have family who are Irish Catholics who attend regularly.
OK? What does that mean? Heck are they Catholics from Ireland or American Roman Catholics whose ancestors cane from Ireland? What significance should this be assigned if none are clergy?
I actively believe there are no gods either. I don’t see how, if the existence of one could be proved, it would make any difference in my day-to-day life. So I don’t care to talk about the existence of said gods. That’s core apatheism.
Calling someone a “pastor” is a Protestant thing. You wouldn’t hear a Catholic call The Pope a pastor.
Vance, like a lot of tradcaths, is LARPing because the rituals look cool. Sorta like how Andrew Tate is a “Muslim” because he thinks it’s all about controlling women, but at the same time unabashedly drinks in public.
Like not all Catholics are obsessed with the Pope, but like I have merch of the man from my Vatican visit. I have some conservative Catholic family critical of the Pope’s more progressive views, but they would never talk like this.
Pastor as a job title is specific to some denominations but the metaphor of a pastor tending his flock is common in all denominations. The roots of all Abrahamic faiths are the Jewish peoples who were largely herders in ancient times.
The first headline: “Global pastor: In word and deed, pope preached mercy, outreach”
Not “a pastor.” Emphasizing global.
That second article, the journalist is the one using the term “pastor.” It does not appear in quotes.
Third one is closest to your point, but again the wording is very difference from Vance.
“You know, I think for Francis, the image of the good Shepherd was very, very important … to seek out the lost sheep. So I think he’s going to be remembered as a pastor.”
It’s kinda strange how eager some of y’all are to defend Vance from the allegation of speaking in a weird and off putting way.
Edit: Let’s try phone a friend (lapsed Catholic, invited me to services a few times for the sit kneel stand routine. The open air service I attended at the Vatican itself felt more Christlike to me, tbh)
These people who have obviously never been Catholic are really down on the whole “Catholics use Father and Pastor interchangeably” thing lol. This is crazy. A Catholic wouldn’t address their priest as “Pastor” holy shit.
Yeah exactly. Like, I’m not Christian anymore so I’m not saying it’s bad to not to go church, but like, are all the people arguing about this Christmas Catholics or something??? I’ve never heard of a Catholic who goes to weekly mass calling their priest “Pastor” lol
Years and years of Christianity and Catholics hating or just tolerating each other. I know first hand. My Dad Catholic, follows the Vatican and the pope word for word… tries to at least. My Mum raised Baptist and now, I have no idea. It’s all the same to me at the end of day. My family is a rainbow of all Christian/Catholic depending on the side of family.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that information, Christian is not a new word. It’s literally biblical. You could make an argument that it’s a 1500s word but that’s a little spurious considering alternative forms such as Cristien and Cristen appear far earlier.
The link you posted literally proves my point. Christian has been used as an encompassing term for followers of Jesus Christ for the last 100 years the terms you posted sound the same but mean two very different things.
I posted three sources and you evidently did not read any of them. The latest of the three sources is the exact same variant as modern use and dated 1500s, which is slightly more than the 100 years ago you’re claiming.
When I said it was a biblical term I was being entirely literal. King James translation circa 1610, Acts 11:26:
And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Christian Science as the name of a religious sect is from 1863. Is the first historical use of the word.The ch- form, regular since c. 1500 in English, was rare before. This is from YOUR source. Lastly, You quoting a religious text as historical is literally showing the lack of critical thinking skills necessary to read said doctrine.
You are very bad at trolling. Try reading the first sentence of the source instead of skipping to a related etymology. Use of a word in a 1610 text is concrete evidence of use of that word existing in 1610, regardless of any other claims that text makes; if it read “Martians ate my baby” that would be concrete evidence of the word “Martians” being used but not of Martians existing.
No, when they first started they were called Christians as Christian means follower of Christ whereas catholic means universal. The church now referred to as The Roman. Catholic Church got that name after the Great Schism.
I get the quote but it was The Church of England that made this claim. It was necessary at the time because catholicity was important to people at the time who largely believed what the Holy See claimed was fact. If the CoE was the one true church then Henry’s sacking of Roman Catholic churches and monasteries to finance his wars and debts was righteous.
That’s a common lie Protestant pastors tell their congregations in order to create an enmity between their people and Catholics. They do it for other Christian denominations too, like Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Seventh Day Adventists.
Can’t have their income source go to a competing church, now can they?
A lot of Bircher types were set off by the election of JFK. There were people who were genuinely concerned he was controlled by the pope. The current iteration of the KKK is about the least anti-Catholic it has ever been, historically they were extremely vocal advocates in favor of public education and not having religion in schools solely due to the popularity of Catholic schools.
I definitely heard things very similar to what OwlPizza’s family said in Sunday school.
I tend to place personal experience over random internet articles written by strangers. I attended catholic church weekly until 18 and went to catholic primary and secondary schools, and not once did I hear a member of the clergy referred to as ‘pastor’. Not once.
I’m not even, and never have been, Catholic. That being said, I attended the local Catholic primary and secondary (high school) schools, because my parents looked at the graduation rates of the local public schools, and the private Catholic school, and put us kids into the one with a 99% graduation rate, and a 70% university attendance rate.
I would NEVER call a priest or nun anything other than Father or Sister. Sister Mary Josephine is dead and I still fear that meter/ yard stick.
“Pastor” is a Latin word that means shepherd. Francis would appreciate the title of pastor, because for his entire papacy he put the pastoral concerns of guiding the congregation before theology and nearly any other concern the church might have.
Can someone explain for the non-religious folk?
OP seems to not understand that the pastoral metaphor is common to all christianity because they are focused on “pastor” as a title. The job title of “pastor” is used by specific protestant denominations but the overarching metaphor of the faithful being a flock of sheep that God/Jesus/the faith tends to is common.
No - it’s more that this isn’t the way that Catholics talk, because Vance doesn’t give a shit about Catholicism and is only one because he thinks it gives him street cred.
Compelling testimony. He’s very aligned with the intellectualism of his patron Saint.
I totally believe he had an angry atheist Richard Dawkins phase.
Are you joking or have you literally never stepped foot in any Roman Catholic space? The pastoral metaphor is common to pretty much every major branch of the faith.
Vance is attached to the “Rationalists” (note the capital “R” because it is a philosophy that isn’t rational) and absolutely was an edge lord regardless the phrase he used is entirely acceptable.
Nope, never.
Then. how have you never heard or seen this metaphor before? It’s incredibly commonplace
I have heard the metaphor. It’s not a term someone would use to describe the pope. It would make sense if he was referring to his local parish’s pastor. It does not make any sense for a Catholic to describe the pope this way.
He does not talk like any Catholic I have known. I have family who are Irish Catholics who attend regularly. I have a dear friend who was really wrestling with his faith and sexuality, who chose St Francis as his patron and was a lot more eloquent than this shit. I have had discussions with actual trad caths. The person who gave me a tour of the Vatican worked for the Vatican.
The way Vance is talking is off putting and weird, and along with basically everything else about him, indicates that he doesn’t give a shit about the religion or its beliefs. He’s like a 4chan asshole who converts because they like posting Deus Vult and “Remove Kebab” memes. Aesthetic, not substance.
Yes, it is. He is the pastor to the entire Roman Catholic faith. It’s kind of awkward but not out of line like if he had called him a bishop or Imam.
OK? What does that mean? Heck are they Catholics from Ireland or American Roman Catholics whose ancestors cane from Ireland? What significance should this be assigned if none are clergy?
You know diaspora is a thing, and a lot of Irish American families identify specifically as Irish Catholics?
Also had a buddy that was actually from Ireland and raised Catholic. He was a pretty vocal atheist but also hooked me onto how lit Sinn Fein is.
lol. You should try google sometime. Pretty sure the US Conference of Catholic Bishops would disagree…
Cool story.
I feel that. I think it was a phase I needed, but man was some of it cringe. Chill, relaxed, “you do you, I’ll do me,” Atheism is soooo much better.
Apatheism is where it’s at.
Eh, I’m not apatheist. I do actively believe there is no god. It’s just not a big deal to me.
I actively believe there are no gods either. I don’t see how, if the existence of one could be proved, it would make any difference in my day-to-day life. So I don’t care to talk about the existence of said gods. That’s core apatheism.
Calling someone a “pastor” is a Protestant thing. You wouldn’t hear a Catholic call The Pope a pastor.
Vance, like a lot of tradcaths, is LARPing because the rituals look cool. Sorta like how Andrew Tate is a “Muslim” because he thinks it’s all about controlling women, but at the same time unabashedly drinks in public.
Like not all Catholics are obsessed with the Pope, but like I have merch of the man from my Vatican visit. I have some conservative Catholic family critical of the Pope’s more progressive views, but they would never talk like this.
Pastor as a job title is specific to some denominations but the metaphor of a pastor tending his flock is common in all denominations. The roots of all Abrahamic faiths are the Jewish peoples who were largely herders in ancient times.
deleted by creator
Thanks!
Thanks for nothing. There are endless catholic bishops using the term pastor. See my other posts.
Oh that’s funny. Thanks for the correction, then!
JFC who’s upvoting this nonsense? Are bishops catholic enough for you?
The first headline: “Global pastor: In word and deed, pope preached mercy, outreach”
Not “a pastor.” Emphasizing global.
That second article, the journalist is the one using the term “pastor.” It does not appear in quotes.
Third one is closest to your point, but again the wording is very difference from Vance.
It’s kinda strange how eager some of y’all are to defend Vance from the allegation of speaking in a weird and off putting way.
Edit: Let’s try phone a friend (lapsed Catholic, invited me to services a few times for the sit kneel stand routine. The open air service I attended at the Vatican itself felt more Christlike to me, tbh)
These people who have obviously never been Catholic are really down on the whole “Catholics use Father and Pastor interchangeably” thing lol. This is crazy. A Catholic wouldn’t address their priest as “Pastor” holy shit.
No, it’s almost always “Father.”
Right that’s what I’m saying, I grew up Catholic and nobody ever said “Pastor X” because that’s a protestant thing
Yeah I was agreeing and did a bad job of projecting that.
Oh I gotcha, sorry for the misread!
I thought I was taking crazy pills. I grew up Catholic and the sentence gave me such a weird creeped-out feeling.
This is cultural uncanny valley.
Yeah exactly. Like, I’m not Christian anymore so I’m not saying it’s bad to not to go church, but like, are all the people arguing about this Christmas Catholics or something??? I’ve never heard of a Catholic who goes to weekly mass calling their priest “Pastor” lol
Average Internet forum experience—saying something true but downvoted because it was said opposition to a popular view
Pope’s are Catholic. Christian don’t have pope.
Years and years of Christianity and Catholics hating or just tolerating each other. I know first hand. My Dad Catholic, follows the Vatican and the pope word for word… tries to at least. My Mum raised Baptist and now, I have no idea. It’s all the same to me at the end of day. My family is a rainbow of all Christian/Catholic depending on the side of family.
Now that there is some classic American anti-Catholic sentiment.
Christian is actually a fairly new all encompassing word. Like Muslim there’s actually a ton of different “Christians”
I’m not sure where you’re getting that information, Christian is not a new word. It’s literally biblical. You could make an argument that it’s a 1500s word but that’s a little spurious considering alternative forms such as Cristien and Cristen appear far earlier.
Edit: Christian, “1520s”, etymonline; Cristien, “c1300”, Middle English Compendium; Christen, “pre-1150”, OED (potentially referencing modern definition of baptising rather than religious follower, paywalled so can’t double check that one)
The link you posted literally proves my point. Christian has been used as an encompassing term for followers of Jesus Christ for the last 100 years the terms you posted sound the same but mean two very different things.
I posted three sources and you evidently did not read any of them. The latest of the three sources is the exact same variant as modern use and dated 1500s, which is slightly more than the 100 years ago you’re claiming.
When I said it was a biblical term I was being entirely literal. King James translation circa 1610, Acts 11:26:
Christian Science as the name of a religious sect is from 1863. Is the first historical use of the word.The ch- form, regular since c. 1500 in English, was rare before. This is from YOUR source. Lastly, You quoting a religious text as historical is literally showing the lack of critical thinking skills necessary to read said doctrine.
You are very bad at trolling. Try reading the first sentence of the source instead of skipping to a related etymology. Use of a word in a 1610 text is concrete evidence of use of that word existing in 1610, regardless of any other claims that text makes; if it read “Martians ate my baby” that would be concrete evidence of the word “Martians” being used but not of Martians existing.
“Regardless of the evidence I put forth” OK gl with that in your thesis defence
Fairly new meaning almost two millennia?
Early greek christians already called themselves Χρῑστῐᾱνός (christianos)
Lemme get this straight, 2 millenia they’ve been praising a guy before he was born??? Just asking…
There are several different denominations within Christianity but they are all Christians.
That’s the point.
When they first started they started as catholics. When then church was first established.
No, when they first started they were called Christians as Christian means follower of Christ whereas catholic means universal. The church now referred to as The Roman. Catholic Church got that name after the Great Schism.
That is an English word. You have no evidence put forth buy legitimate historians.
Catholics are Christian, but they aren’t Protestant.
Considering the thing thing that Protestants protested was catholic rule….
It would be awkward if they were.
Catholicity, namely that your church is the unbroken chain back to St Peter, is claimed by several denominations not just Roman Catholics
Including the Protestant episcopal church that considers itself catholic.
That’s because it is part of the Anglican communion who actually make that claim.
Peoples front of Catholicism NOT the Catholic people’s front
I get the quote but it was The Church of England that made this claim. It was necessary at the time because catholicity was important to people at the time who largely believed what the Holy See claimed was fact. If the CoE was the one true church then Henry’s sacking of Roman Catholic churches and monasteries to finance his wars and debts was righteous.
I said this to my Dad before and drilled me how Catholics are not Christian and my Mum will say the same.
You’re probably right, my parents are crazy in my eyes. How they got married at all is a “miracle” lol
Wonder who the guy on the Catholics’ cross is then
Probably not Republican White Jesus, which is why some would consider them not Christian.
Absolutely guessing. I’m not an American so these weirdo Republicans don’t make sense to me.
Your parents are incredibly incorrect on this. Maybe try google.
How I was brought up and yes I agree.
Information is wrong, I see other replies with accurate information. I can tell them, but they are stuck in their ways.
That’s a common lie Protestant pastors tell their congregations in order to create an enmity between their people and Catholics. They do it for other Christian denominations too, like Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Seventh Day Adventists.
Can’t have their income source go to a competing church, now can they?
Dafuq are protestants like in the USA? Protestants in Europe are usually quite liberal and do not antagonise any other faith.
Protestants are generally militantly conservative in America. Look into Southern Baptists for an example.
Yeah - what SaintOwlPizza is saying is an extremely common belief in the American South.
A lot of Bircher types were set off by the election of JFK. There were people who were genuinely concerned he was controlled by the pope. The current iteration of the KKK is about the least anti-Catholic it has ever been, historically they were extremely vocal advocates in favor of public education and not having religion in schools solely due to the popularity of Catholic schools.
I definitely heard things very similar to what OwlPizza’s family said in Sunday school.
“Pastor” is the term for the person that leads a church / church congregation. The general ranking of the hierarchy is:
J.D. Vance is Catholic, and referred to the Pope as a ‘pastor’. This would be like somebody saying “(insert American President) was a good mayor”.
JFC… Does nobody one this site use a search engine?
I tend to place personal experience over random internet articles written by strangers. I attended catholic church weekly until 18 and went to catholic primary and secondary schools, and not once did I hear a member of the clergy referred to as ‘pastor’. Not once.
I’m not even, and never have been, Catholic. That being said, I attended the local Catholic primary and secondary (high school) schools, because my parents looked at the graduation rates of the local public schools, and the private Catholic school, and put us kids into the one with a 99% graduation rate, and a 70% university attendance rate.
I would NEVER call a priest or nun anything other than Father or Sister. Sister Mary Josephine is dead and I still fear that meter/ yard stick.
unless
Yea yea there’s some schismatics out there that claim to be the “actual” pope but there hasn’t really been an anti-pope since 1449.
But there was pope emeritus
“Pastor” is a Latin word that means shepherd. Francis would appreciate the title of pastor, because for his entire papacy he put the pastoral concerns of guiding the congregation before theology and nearly any other concern the church might have.
I think pastor is for the Protestants.
I’m assuming priest orr something similar. Please understand I am also non-religious. So I’m basically just guessing