I do care I am just not dumb enough to think that your mentality is the solution.
Basically, you voted for Trump thinking the genocide issue would be resolved. Instead of genocide being resolved, you STILL have genocide in addition to a wrecked economy.
These people don’t realize (or well, maybe they do and are lying, I can’t read their minds) that asking people to not meaningfully participate in voting is like asking people to not participate in capitalism.
The argument that there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism — something all leftists agree on and understand they still need to buy food, clothes, electronics etc. despite them being unethically sourced — is the same as the argument that there’s no ethical voting in FPTP (and capitalism). It’s literally the same argument, just centered on voting.
So these people end up doing a kind of unironic “you say you’re a leftist yet you own an iPhone” but for voting — while probably typing all that from an iPhone.
To be fair, some of them are members of the Church of Accelerationism and believe that making life worse for people and offering up vulnerable populations as sacrifice will magically lead to the world getting transformed into a better place, despite no historical data backing such an idea. So, they want Nazis to win, despite claiming to be leftists who care about fellow human beings.
Yeah, there’s a lot of that going around. As if capitalism will collapse precisely into fully automated luxury space communism as opposed to straight-up Mad Max (i.e. the manifestation of America’s collective id).
You and those who took your route are virtue signaling morons. But at least you can look down your nose at the rest of us while our democracy crumbles and our rights are stripped away.
Ah so you think you are innocent because you didn’t vote.
No. That makes you complacent. You let Trump win by not voting which is the same as voting for Trump.
People like you are why Trump is president.
What a brain dead take. Not only do you STILL have genocide, you also have a president who is going to destroy this country. All because you couldn’t lift your lazy fat ass off the couch.
If you didn’t vote for Harris, you accepted that allowing genocide and converting Gaza into a Trump resort was preferable to voting for slightly less genocide. The genocide has only gotten worse because Harris lost. Clownshow ethics.
Option A — do something: If you pull the lever, the trolley will run over people.
Option B — do nothing: If you don’t pull the lever, it will still run them over, just more quickly because some of the passengers consider the victims a threat and anyway the conductor’s itinerary includes running over everyone else on the planet and barreling into the sea before the trolley runs out of steam.
BUT as everyone is run over you can show them your hands, and they will marvel at how clean they are, and you will say “it’s because I had the courage to not touch the lever,” and your unwavering sense of justice will inspire them so they may die happy knowing they once spoke to such a hero…
Obviously option B, doing nothing, is the most ethical solution, since clean hands should be one’s priority.
Independent. I still voted blue because they promised less genocide and I knew not doing so guaranteed as much of it as possible.
But now that I see how clean your hands are compared to mine, I am ashamed. I mean, yes a lot more people are now dying as a result, but can you really put a price on cleanliness?
Unfortunately, over decades they’ve learned who are reliable voting blocks. Not participating communicates that one sees both options as functionally the same. So if anything, it encourages then to move to the right, which is a reliable voting block.
I’m not at all gleeful about voting for them, and desperately want other options. I’m doing what I can to build parallel structures, engage in mutual aid, and in my day job I’m fighting climate change as an environmental research scientist. Unfortunately, we don’t live in the best of all possible worlds, and the tracks of the trolley don’t change overnight.
I’m sorry that you’ve misunderstood my point so deeply. Let me more explicit. The Cheneys should have been thrown into a volcano. Harris did a shit job. We all need to organize to get milquetoast liberals/moderates and fascists alike out of office.
Actually no. Refusing to vote for a genocidal candidate, regardless of which side of the aisle or gender they are, is always a good choice. We are not free until we are all free. I demand my politicians not just be the lesser of two evils. I hope you can too. Cuz the drive to vote for a democratic candidate cuz they are not as evil is what got us here in the first place.
sometimes being an adult means doing distasteful things… both candidates supported genocide… 1 of the candidates also wasn’t racist, economically literate, determined to exterminate the poor, and destroy what little democracy you had
get the fuck over it… you have 2 bad choices and your lack of choice contributed to this
He had one bad choice and one meh choice. There was plenty of progressive legislation in Harris’ platform. These people didn’t get 100% of what they wanted and sat home like entitled children.
Honestly at this point I consider those who peddle this narrative either bots or literally worse than those who are captured by the cult of MAGA — because they have “reasoned” that giving MAGA free reign makes them morally superior to those who voted for the Democrats. But I have to ask:
Do you basically just… Not believe in harm reduction?
Because the argument seems to hinge on the idea that you’d refuse to engage in behaviors that reduce TOTAL harm because there would still BE harm.
I agree that none of us are truly free until we all are, but I fail to see how outright christofascism AND genocide are the preferable outcome for you here. How exactly does sending people to El Salvadorian work camps and secreting away protesters improve our foothold on this issue, exactly?
If your idea is that, if gets bad enough, people will have enough anger to fuel your dreams of an uprising of some kind… At the end of the day you’re STILL using human suffering as a bargaining chip while patting yourself on the back for being exactly the kind of non-resistance that MAGA relies on to gain power and momentum.
Tl;Dr: I really fucking hope you’re an account made for astroturfing and not a real person because “dogshit take” is too soft a descriptor for this line of thinking.
No, I didn’t vote for either. It was pretty easy to vote against Harris, while also voting against this. Maybe next time the Dems should run a candidate that at least pretends to care about what the voters want. That tends to help in elections.
Maybe next time the Dems should run a candidate that at least pretends to care about what the voters want. That tends to help in elections.
All of this I agree with. Unfortunately it won’t happen until all the neolibs are run out of the party.
But trying to pretend like you didn’t directly elect a dictator by “abstaining” is not only absurd, but ethically reprehensible. Much of life is about choosing between lesser evils and lesser pains. Letting the worst options win because a perfect one doesn’t (and cannot) exist makes you a deliberate, willing accomplice.
But trying to pretend like you didn’t directly elect a dictator by “abstaining” is not only absurd, but ethically reprehensible
I’d say painting all third party or non-voters to be more absurd and ethically reprehensible, as would most people with a brain
Or are you gonna claim the millions of votes in California that went up cast helped trump win? Elections in the US aren’t simple, people need to stop oversimplifying them
I would like you to say that you won’t vote lesser evil next time, since you believe the idea of a “next time” is laughable and are probably an honest person.
If there is a next time, I will absolutely say to vote lesser evil again. Without a workable alternative, that is the option. I still see no workable alternative. Longshot third parties with ~1% polling are not a workable alternative. Vague revolution composed of ~1% of the population is not a workable alternative. When you have a plan, with reasonable chances of success, we can talk.
If you didn’t vote Harris, you voted for this.
If you voted for Harris you voted for genocide. People who abstained did not.
Looks like the genocide is going stronger than ever. Congratulations.
You bit hard into the propaganda campaign for this.
You had two choices, bad or worse.
You chose neither and allowed worse to win.
Get down off your high horse, this does not make you morally superior, it makes you an idiot.
I do not care. Tell Democrats to stop doing genocide instead of telling people to vote for it.
When you can’t buy anything in the stores you will definitely care.
When you’re starving to death in your own house you won’t be thinking about genocide anymore.
Stop burying your head in the sand.
Basically what you just said is it’s bad that democrats do genocide but when republicans do it then it’s fine.
Basically you said you do not care about genocide unless it happens to you.
No but you’ve abundantly made it clear that you think by letting Trump into office that the genocide issue magically goes away. Your logic sucks.
You think Kamala does not it go away but you do not care.
I do care I am just not dumb enough to think that your mentality is the solution.
Basically, you voted for Trump thinking the genocide issue would be resolved. Instead of genocide being resolved, you STILL have genocide in addition to a wrecked economy.
Well done. 👍
Edit: replied to wrong person
These people don’t realize (or well, maybe they do and are lying, I can’t read their minds) that asking people to not meaningfully participate in voting is like asking people to not participate in capitalism.
The argument that there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism — something all leftists agree on and understand they still need to buy food, clothes, electronics etc. despite them being unethically sourced — is the same as the argument that there’s no ethical voting in FPTP (and capitalism). It’s literally the same argument, just centered on voting.
So these people end up doing a kind of unironic “you say you’re a leftist yet you own an iPhone” but for voting — while probably typing all that from an iPhone.
To be fair, some of them are members of the Church of Accelerationism and believe that making life worse for people and offering up vulnerable populations as sacrifice will magically lead to the world getting transformed into a better place, despite no historical data backing such an idea. So, they want Nazis to win, despite claiming to be leftists who care about fellow human beings.
Yeah, there’s a lot of that going around. As if capitalism will collapse precisely into fully automated luxury space communism as opposed to straight-up Mad Max (i.e. the manifestation of America’s collective id).
You and those who took your route are virtue signaling morons. But at least you can look down your nose at the rest of us while our democracy crumbles and our rights are stripped away.
the genocide was also part of the tRump package, worse actually
Ah so you think you are innocent because you didn’t vote.
No. That makes you complacent. You let Trump win by not voting which is the same as voting for Trump.
People like you are why Trump is president.
What a brain dead take. Not only do you STILL have genocide, you also have a president who is going to destroy this country. All because you couldn’t lift your lazy fat ass off the couch.
Harris stated multiple times that she wanted a cease fire and a two state solution. Polar opposite of Trumps “sweep them out and take over.”
Every month from becoming the nominee until the election: cease fire, hostage release, two state solution.
July: https://www.the-independent.com/tv/news/kamala-harris-says-two-state-solution-is-the-only-path-after-meeting-with-netanyahu-b2586161.html
August: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html
September: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-harris-says-two-state-solution-end-of-israel-hamas-war-is-crucial
October: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/harris-dodges-direct-question-on-palestinian-deaths-calls-for-2-state-solution-during-cnn-town-hall/3372480
Actions and words are two different things.
As VP she literally could not take any action unless it came down to a 50-50 vote in the Senate. That’s the job of the VP.
Only thing she could do is lie that they were doing everything they could.
If you didn’t vote for Harris, you accepted that allowing genocide and converting Gaza into a Trump resort was preferable to voting for slightly less genocide. The genocide has only gotten worse because Harris lost. Clownshow ethics.
If you didn’t, then you got us genocide+™.
Option A — do something: If you pull the lever, the trolley will run over people.
Option B — do nothing: If you don’t pull the lever, it will still run them over, just more quickly because some of the passengers consider the victims a threat and anyway the conductor’s itinerary includes running over everyone else on the planet and barreling into the sea before the trolley runs out of steam.
BUT as everyone is run over you can show them your hands, and they will marvel at how clean they are, and you will say “it’s because I had the courage to not touch the lever,” and your unwavering sense of justice will inspire them so they may die happy knowing they once spoke to such a hero…
Obviously option B, doing nothing, is the most ethical solution, since clean hands should be one’s priority.
Tell your party to make a track without genocide next time.
Independent. I still voted blue because they promised less genocide and I knew not doing so guaranteed as much of it as possible.
But now that I see how clean your hands are compared to mine, I am ashamed. I mean, yes a lot more people are now dying as a result, but can you really put a price on cleanliness?
They did not promise less genocide. But you still voted for them.
Well yeah, that’s exactly the idea. Choose the best of bad options, and try to improve things so that the next time there’s better options.
Not choosing either usually leads to the worse option, which makes it harder to improve things.
There are no easy options.
This is how making demands works. Hope the Democratic party learned that they will not get votes like this next time.
Unfortunately, over decades they’ve learned who are reliable voting blocks. Not participating communicates that one sees both options as functionally the same. So if anything, it encourages then to move to the right, which is a reliable voting block.
I’m not at all gleeful about voting for them, and desperately want other options. I’m doing what I can to build parallel structures, engage in mutual aid, and in my day job I’m fighting climate change as an environmental research scientist. Unfortunately, we don’t live in the best of all possible worlds, and the tracks of the trolley don’t change overnight.
Yes Liz Cheney worked wonders. Very reliable. You are a political expert. Harris had the best campaign.
I’m sorry that you’ve misunderstood my point so deeply. Let me more explicit. The Cheneys should have been thrown into a volcano. Harris did a shit job. We all need to organize to get milquetoast liberals/moderates and fascists alike out of office.
removed by mod
Username checks out.
Actually no. Refusing to vote for a genocidal candidate, regardless of which side of the aisle or gender they are, is always a good choice. We are not free until we are all free. I demand my politicians not just be the lesser of two evils. I hope you can too. Cuz the drive to vote for a democratic candidate cuz they are not as evil is what got us here in the first place.
how’s that working out for you?
sometimes being an adult means doing distasteful things… both candidates supported genocide… 1 of the candidates also wasn’t racist, economically literate, determined to exterminate the poor, and destroy what little democracy you had
get the fuck over it… you have 2 bad choices and your lack of choice contributed to this
He had one bad choice and one meh choice. There was plenty of progressive legislation in Harris’ platform. These people didn’t get 100% of what they wanted and sat home like entitled children.
Honestly at this point I consider those who peddle this narrative either bots or literally worse than those who are captured by the cult of MAGA — because they have “reasoned” that giving MAGA free reign makes them morally superior to those who voted for the Democrats. But I have to ask:
Do you basically just… Not believe in harm reduction?
Because the argument seems to hinge on the idea that you’d refuse to engage in behaviors that reduce TOTAL harm because there would still BE harm.
I agree that none of us are truly free until we all are, but I fail to see how outright christofascism AND genocide are the preferable outcome for you here. How exactly does sending people to El Salvadorian work camps and secreting away protesters improve our foothold on this issue, exactly?
If your idea is that, if gets bad enough, people will have enough anger to fuel your dreams of an uprising of some kind… At the end of the day you’re STILL using human suffering as a bargaining chip while patting yourself on the back for being exactly the kind of non-resistance that MAGA relies on to gain power and momentum.
Tl;Dr: I really fucking hope you’re an account made for astroturfing and not a real person because “dogshit take” is too soft a descriptor for this line of thinking.
No, I didn’t vote for either. It was pretty easy to vote against Harris, while also voting against this. Maybe next time the Dems should run a candidate that at least pretends to care about what the voters want. That tends to help in elections.
Too young to vote huh?
All of this I agree with. Unfortunately it won’t happen until all the neolibs are run out of the party.
But trying to pretend like you didn’t directly elect a dictator by “abstaining” is not only absurd, but ethically reprehensible. Much of life is about choosing between lesser evils and lesser pains. Letting the worst options win because a perfect one doesn’t (and cannot) exist makes you a deliberate, willing accomplice.
I’d say painting all third party or non-voters to be more absurd and ethically reprehensible, as would most people with a brain
Or are you gonna claim the millions of votes in California that went up cast helped trump win? Elections in the US aren’t simple, people need to stop oversimplifying them
I would accept that in 2016. This time around you dipshits knew what the result of your apathy would be and did it anyway.
“Next time”.
Good luck with that. Chump.
So you’ll never say lesser evil again, right? Since there won’t be a next time?
What’s your goal right now?
I would like you to say that you won’t vote lesser evil next time, since you believe the idea of a “next time” is laughable and are probably an honest person.
You’re going to have to connect the dots for me, I’m kind of stupid. Why would I do that?
Why not? It’s not like next time is going to happen, right?
I don’t see how one follows the other. Maybe you should make a diagram for me while I go fix a drink.
If there is a next time, I will absolutely say to vote lesser evil again. Without a workable alternative, that is the option. I still see no workable alternative. Longshot third parties with ~1% polling are not a workable alternative. Vague revolution composed of ~1% of the population is not a workable alternative. When you have a plan, with reasonable chances of success, we can talk.
Upvoting to counter the spineless cowards who enabled Nazi America.
“B-b-but, muh Marxist dialectic materialism requires that I vote ideologically and totally disregard all dissident opinions”
There have been no new Supreme Court nominees since the election, so even if Harris had won, it would not have changed this.
Hey we don’t know, maybe Harris would’ve expanded the Supreme Court!
Ok maybe we know.